[elánius]

Feckin hell, the way some are going on it sounds like he had a Jonathan Woodgate-esque debut

Well he wasnt horrible, but he wasnt good either and thats the point I guess. Many people (not only from here) were instantly prasining him like he showed some world class performance but that just clearly didnt happen.
He was supose to be our brain, he should be creating chances, finding space behing enemy lines and using his technique to just "open them up". Did he do that? I dont think so.

On youtube theres video of every one of his touches and he was just one of many, definitely nothing to talk about. He had a lot of touches, so at least we have player who wants to play football from the first minute to the very last (not like Mctominay f. e.), but he did nothing with it. He was losing ball left and right, didnt find any space behing wolves defensive line for our attacking trio, his shots were mostly pure desparation except one from bad cross from Shaw, his free kicks or corners were just super bad. I am not hating him, I said before he even kicked the ball that he will need time, but I just hate when some players are overrated for no reason whatsoever and this is the perfect example. (same goes f. e. to Williams debut and so on). He will be good, but against Wolves he just wasnt and he should be blamed as the rest of the team, because that game was abysmall and he was a big part of it.

Look at numbers (from sofa and whoscored)
Touches 110 (we had 850 total as a team btw, so he was a huge part of our game with the ball, only AWB with more touches)
Accurate passes 69 (80% )
Key passes 0
Crosses (acc.) 3 (0)
Long balls (acc.) 11 (5)
Shots on target 3
Shots off target 1
Shots blocked 1
Dribble attempts (succ.) 1 (1)
Ground duels (won) 13 (6)
Aerial duels (won) 0 (0)
Possession lost 23
Fouls 1
Was fouled 2
Clearances 3
Blocked shots 0
Interceptions 0
Tackles (succ.) 6 (3)
Dribbled past 3
Dispossessed 3
Chances created 0

Based on numbers a.k.a facts, he didnt do anything for our attack, he was average at best for our defence. Lost a lot of balls, average in duels, average in tackles, his biggest problem was that he was dribbled past three times and aslo dispossessed three times. You cant do that as CM, and as a CDM, it is just a so called football deadly sin. If you lose the ball in the middle of the pitch and your team is trying to go forward, it is perfect situation for counter attacking team like Wolves are and we were pretty lucky they didnt punish us.

A lot of people would just smash Pogba after performance like this one, everyone would start talking about his hair, agent, his dancing, his social networks and that he doesnt focus on the game. It would be of course overreaction as well, but just to show a bigger picture.. This is just not enough for 50 mil. pounds and he has to do better. And I truly believe he will be better. But to move forward, no one can be satisfied with performance like this one against Wolves.
There were good signs, he looks to have a very good football vision, but if you cant complete your pass, it is useless. It will come in the future. :-)

 

[roonster09]

his biggest problem was that he was dribbled past three times

Dribbled past means he lost 3 tackles, it's doesn't mean he was dribbled past thrice. If he attempts 5 tackles and wins only 2 that means he was dribbled past 3 times. One more stat that doesn't say much. You should check where did he lose those tackles. If it's in defensive third then it's a problem, if it's in attacking third then it isn't.

Also easy to paint any story you want to using stats.

Only 2 players won more tackles than Bruno and no player made more clearances than him, so he was good defensively.

No player played more passes than Bruno and only Fred completed more long passes than him.

Coming back to dribbled past, he lost 3 tackles 2 of them are in final third. Just to compare, Moutinho lost 2 tackles and Fred lost 6.

 

[elánius]

Dribbled past means he lost 3 tackles, it's doesn't mean he was dribbled past thrice. If he attempts 5 tackles and wins only 2 that means he was dribbled past 3 times. One more stat that doesn't say much. You should check where did he lose those tackles. If it's in defensive third then it's a problem, if it's in attacking third then it isn't.

Dribbled past means that he was going for a tackle and didnt win it = he was completely out of the game for that action as a midfielder. To answer you "question", two of them were in the middle third, one of them was in attacking third, but I dont really believe it is relevant. The situation is more relevant than the actuall position of the tackle. F.e if three players are trying to press, it doesnt matter at all if one of them loses his tackle, but if we are in attacking third, full backs are finding space for cross, second midfielder is in the penalty area to recieve it and you lose the ball and then the tackle while you try to recover the ball, it is a huge problem. Many counterattacks start like that.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Got another flop on our hands,guys.
Only joking. Crikey,give him time...to become a flop.

 

[roonster09]

Dribbled past means that he was going for a tackle and didnt win it = he was completely out of the game for that action as a midfielder. To answer you "question", two of them were in the middle third, one of them was in attacking third, but I dont really believe it is relevant. The situation is more relevant than the actuall position of the tackle. F.e if three players are trying to press, it doesnt matter at all if one of them loses his tackle, but if we are in attacking third, full backs are finding space for cross, second midfielder is in the penalty area to recieve it and you lose the ball and then the tackle while you try to recover the ball, it is a huge problem. Many counterattacks start like that.

So if he doesn't try for a tackle then dribbled past stat shows nothing, which means he wasn't at fault for counter attack. That's the problem with dribbled past stat. Players like Fred will always have big numbers in dribbled past as they will go for plenty of tackles and when they lose, they don't lose the man, they will keep going after the player. But as per the stat, player is well beaten and the conclusion is, counter attack was initiated because of that.

Also no, losing tackle doesn't mean player was out of the game. If you are talking about sliding tackle against a player who is at his full speed then yeah, but not when you attempt tackles and then hold the player and slow them down, like Fred does.

Re bold part, yeah nothing of that sort happened in Wolves game. Second midfielder making run to penalty area or FB finding space to cross.

 

[elánius]

So if he doesn't try for a tackle then dribbled past stat shows nothing, which means he wasn't at fault for counter attack. That's the problem with dribbled past stat. Players like Fred will always have big numbers in dribbled past as they will go for plenty of tackles and when they lose, they don't lose the man, they will keep going after the player. But as per the stat, player is well beaten and the conclusion is, counter attack was initiated because of that.

Also no, losing tackle doesn't mean player was out of the game. If you are talking about sliding tackle against a player who is at his full speed then yeah, but not when you attempt tackles and then hold the player and slow them down, like Fred does.

Re bold part, yeah nothing of that sort happened in Wolves game. Second midfielder making run to penalty area or FB finding space to cross.

So you agree with me that it depends on the situation rather than position itself, ok. :-)

If he doesnt try for a tackle, he does not "create" the space behind himslef and that is exactly the point. You need to be very carefull with tackles as a midfielder, because if you fail, there can be so much space behind you and you are lying on the ground as a spectator. If you stay on your feet, you can stop the counter attack with a faul (hello Guardiola), interception (hello Kante), succesfull tackle (hello Fabinho) or whatever. It is just a big risk and succes rate of 50 % for a CM is (and will be) a big problem. And I am actually glad you mentioned Fred, because he has the same problem. If he plays with Matic who is always there to help, it is ok, but that is not the case all the time (like this match) and our defence suffers because of that. You need to be smarter. Herrera also used to do that and he was hit or miss player. When he had a good day, he was best box to box player in PL, because no one could have hidden from him and he just stopped everything. On the other hand, when he had a bad day, he was completly useless. You need to think twice before you go for a tackle as a midfielder, thats my point. (and also last reaction, I am just a newbie :-) )

 

[roonster09]

So you agree with me that it depends on the situation rather than position itself, ok. :-)

If he doesnt try for a tackle, he does not "create" the space behind himslef and that is exactly the point. You need to be very carefull with tackles as a midfielder, because if you fail, there can be so much space behind you and you are lying on the ground as a spectator. If you stay on your feet, you can stop the counter attack with a faul (hello Guardiola), interception (hello Kante), succesfull tackle (hello Fabinho) or whatever. It is just a big risk and with succes rate of 50 % for a CM is a big problem and I am actually glad you mentioned Fred, because he has the same problem. If he plays with Matic who is always there to help, it is ok, but that often not the case and our defence suffers because of that. You need to be smarter. Herrera also used to do that and he was hit or miss player. When he had a good day, he was best box to box player in PL, because no one could have hidden from him and he just stop everything. On the other hand, when he had a bad day, he was completly useless. You need to think twice before you go for a tackle as a midfielder, thats my point. (and also last reaction, I am just a newbie :-) )

You can stay on your feet, try to win a tackle, lose a tackle and still avoid counter attack.

You are under the assumption that losing tackle means he is out of that play, he isn't.

Also 50% tackle win % isn't that bad, players like Moutinho, Norwood, KdB, Neves, Tielemans, Kovacic, Gundogan, Fabinho, Torreira, Wijnaldum have all 50-60% tackle success rate.

 

[ash_86]

Well he wasnt horrible, but he wasnt good either and thats the point I guess. Many people (not only from here) were instantly prasining him like he showed some world class performance but that just clearly didnt happen.
He was supose to be our brain, he should be creating chances, finding space behing enemy lines and using his technique to just "open them up". Did he do that? I dont think so.

On youtube theres video of every one of his touches and he was just one of many, definitely nothing to talk about. He had a lot of touches, so at least we have player who wants to play football from the first minute to the very last (not like Mctominay f. e.), but he did nothing with it. He was losing ball left and right, didnt find any space behing wolves defensive line for our attacking trio, his shots were mostly pure desparation except one from bad cross from Shaw, his free kicks or corners were just super bad. I am not hating him, I said before he even kicked the ball that he will need time, but I just hate when some players are overrated for no reason whatsoever and this is the perfect example. (same goes f. e. to Williams debut and so on). He will be good, but against Wolves he just wasnt and he should be blamed as the rest of the team, because that game was abysmall and he was a big part of it.

Look at numbers (from sofa and whoscored)
Touches 110 (we had 850 total as a team btw, so he was a huge part of our game with the ball, only AWB with more touches)
Accurate passes 69 (80% )
Key passes 0
Crosses (acc.) 3 (0)
Long balls (acc.) 11 (5)
Shots on target 3
Shots off target 1
Shots blocked 1
Dribble attempts (succ.) 1 (1)
Ground duels (won) 13 (6)
Aerial duels (won) 0 (0)
Possession lost 23
Fouls 1
Was fouled 2
Clearances 3
Blocked shots 0
Interceptions 0
Tackles (succ.) 6 (3)
Dribbled past 3
Dispossessed 3
Chances created 0

Based on numbers a.k.a facts, he didnt do anything for our attack, he was average at best for our defence. Lost a lot of balls, average in duels, average in tackles, his biggest problem was that he was dribbled past three times and aslo dispossessed three times. You cant do that as CM, and as a CDM, it is just a so called football deadly sin. If you lose the ball in the middle of the pitch and your team is trying to go forward, it is perfect situation for counter attacking team like Wolves are and we were pretty lucky they didnt punish us.

A lot of people would just smash Pogba after performance like this one, everyone would start talking about his hair, agent, his dancing, his social networks and that he doesnt focus on the game. It would be of course overreaction as well, but just to show a bigger picture.. This is just not enough for 50 mil. pounds and he has to do better. And I truly believe he will be better. But to move forward, no one can be satisfied with performance like this one against Wolves.
There were good signs, he looks to have a very good football vision, but if you cant complete your pass, it is useless. It will come in the future. :-)

Check Martial's heat map for the wolves game. He basically was in the box less than 5 percent of the game. How do you create a chance for striker never in the box? Hence he had to go for the shot himself. I think Igalo will solve this problem for us by being in the box at least.

 

[youmeletsfly]

Well he wasnt horrible, but he wasnt good either and thats the point I guess. Many people (not only from here) were instantly prasining him like he showed some world class performance but that just clearly didnt happen.
He was supose to be our brain, he should be creating chances, finding space behing enemy lines and using his technique to just "open them up". Did he do that? I dont think so.

On youtube theres video of every one of his touches and he was just one of many, definitely nothing to talk about. He had a lot of touches, so at least we have player who wants to play football from the first minute to the very last (not like Mctominay f. e.), but he did nothing with it. He was losing ball left and right, didnt find any space behing wolves defensive line for our attacking trio, his shots were mostly pure desparation except one from bad cross from Shaw, his free kicks or corners were just super bad. I am not hating him, I said before he even kicked the ball that he will need time, but I just hate when some players are overrated for no reason whatsoever and this is the perfect example. (same goes f. e. to Williams debut and so on). He will be good, but against Wolves he just wasnt and he should be blamed as the rest of the team, because that game was abysmall and he was a big part of it.

Look at numbers (from sofa and whoscored)
Touches 110 (we had 850 total as a team btw, so he was a huge part of our game with the ball, only AWB with more touches)
Accurate passes 69 (80% )
Key passes 0
Crosses (acc.) 3 (0)
Long balls (acc.) 11 (5)
Shots on target 3
Shots off target 1
Shots blocked 1
Dribble attempts (succ.) 1 (1)
Ground duels (won) 13 (6)
Aerial duels (won) 0 (0)
Possession lost 23
Fouls 1
Was fouled 2
Clearances 3
Blocked shots 0
Interceptions 0
Tackles (succ.) 6 (3)
Dribbled past 3
Dispossessed 3
Chances created 0

Based on numbers a.k.a facts, he didnt do anything for our attack, he was average at best for our defence. Lost a lot of balls, average in duels, average in tackles, his biggest problem was that he was dribbled past three times and aslo dispossessed three times. You cant do that as CM, and as a CDM, it is just a so called football deadly sin. If you lose the ball in the middle of the pitch and your team is trying to go forward, it is perfect situation for counter attacking team like Wolves are and we were pretty lucky they didnt punish us.

A lot of people would just smash Pogba after performance like this one, everyone would start talking about his hair, agent, his dancing, his social networks and that he doesnt focus on the game. It would be of course overreaction as well, but just to show a bigger picture.. This is just not enough for 50 mil. pounds and he has to do better. And I truly believe he will be better. But to move forward, no one can be satisfied with performance like this one against Wolves.
There were good signs, he looks to have a very good football vision, but if you cant complete your pass, it is useless. It will come in the future. :-)

We had no strikers in the box, any cross would've been dogshit useless.

I agree that some of the people did exaggerate his performance a bit. It was a decent debut, but he didn't do anything spectacular.
We should also keep in mind that he played in quite a strange position.

And yes, if Pogba would've had such a performance vs Wolves he would've been crucified.

Bruno is a decent player, but if people expect him to do wonders this year, they're really crazy. It will take time, just like Fred.

 

[FrankDrebin]

We had no strikers in the box, any cross would've been dogshit useless.

I agree that some of the people did exaggerate his performance a bit. It was a decent debut, but he didn't do anything spectacular.
We should also keep in mind that he played in quite a strange position.

And yes, if Pogba would've had such a performance vs Wolves he would've been crucified.

Bruno is a decent player, but if people expect him to do wonders this year, they're really crazy. It will take time, just like Fred.

Something he unfortunately may need to get used to.

 

[romufc]

Bruno is a decent player, but if people expect him to do wonders this year, they're really crazy. It will take time, just like Fred.

Exactly, he had flown in after playing twice a week for Sporting, with all the off field stuff, one training session and he was playing 90 mins in a team that doesnt score or create.

This is a player who will need 6 months to adapt. No point criticising him losing the ball when he is trying to make things happen then criticise players who don't lose it and play sideways?

What do we want? him to play the safe option all the time?

Lets put it into context KDB has a passing accuracy of 80% this season and Vs Spurs it was 76% and he has Aguero and the likes to cross to.

 

[youmeletsfly]

Exactly, he had flown in after playing twice a week for Sporting, with all the off field stuff, one training session and he was playing 90 mins in a team that doesnt score or create.

This is a player who will need 6 months to adapt. No point criticising him losing the ball when he is trying to make things happen then criticise players who don't lose it and play sideways?

What do we want? him to play the safe option all the time?

Lets put it into context KDB has a passing accuracy of 80% this season and Vs Spurs it was 76% and he has Aguero and the likes to cross to.

I think that's such an overrated statistic. Good players will try risky passes. Passing accuracy means shit if out of 10 risky passes 2 are successful and lead to a goal. (and that;s just the case with KDB)

 

[romufc]

I think that's such an overrated statistic. Good players will try risky passes. Passing accuracy means shit if out of 10 risky passes 2 are successful and lead to a goal. (and that;s just the case with KDB)

That is my point, the poster was criticising Bruno for losing the ball but he played 3/4 passes which Lingard / Perreira have never played.

Its unfortunate that when he was drilling the passes into Martial and them, no one was there for the one - twos which can quicken the play.

I would rather him him try these passes and occasionally lose the ball than us passing for passing sake and not delivering nothing.

 

[Adamsk7]

I actually can’t believe what I’m reading in here - in fact this thread is making me consider quitting Redcafe for good.....

He had a good debut. He’d been in the country, what, 48 hours? Had one training session with the team.
you could see that he had skill, short and long passing, great overall technique and he had three bloody shots on target!! Some games we don’t have three shots on target as a WHOLE TEAM!

give this absolute crap about his performance a rest - if you can’t see from that outing that he’s a good footballer then honestly you shouldn’t critique players. He is absolute light years ahead of Pereira and Lingard and will be comfortably one of the best players in our squad come the end of the season.

 

[Le Red]

Well he wasnt horrible, but he wasnt good either and thats the point I guess. Many people (not only from here) were instantly prasining him like he showed some world class performance but that just clearly didnt happen.
He was supose to be our brain, he should be creating chances, finding space behing enemy lines and using his technique to just "open them up". Did he do that? I dont think so.

The thing is, people said he had a good debut given the context he was playing: just thrown in a pitch with a disorganised bunch he never played with.
Once you start from this perspective, you can see he did well to get involved a lot, try to make the team be aggressive and score goals.
For me, the biggest mistake is that he was trying to fit in the midfield. There is no place for him to fit there, because it is a huge mess and every player do as he pleases. Bruno will realise sooner than later that he is the one to lead and organize the midfield. Once he does, I expect something resembling a functional midfield again, specially if the Lingard/Pereira duo gets ostracized, hopefully soon.
He didn't make anything noteworthy, but some of his passes highlighted his class, something we sorely lack.
This is why his debut was good and promising. It was only bad if you leave all this context aside.

 

[ROFLUTION]

What was frustrating to me was that he played fast and was in good positions in first half, but players didnt pass him when available. They were so slow and sort of waiting to trust him. He's a cannon - just play it to him and let him have a shot ffs. Really hope we dont play him too deep again also. Let him roam like KDB

 

[romufc]

I actually can’t believe what I’m reading in here - in fact this thread is making me consider quitting Redcafe for good.....

He had a good debut. He’d been in the country, what, 48 hours? Had one training session with the team.
you could see that he had skill, short and long passing, great overall technique and he had three bloody shots on target!! Some games we don’t have three shots on target as a WHOLE TEAM!

give this absolute crap about his performance a rest - if you can’t see from that outing that he’s a good footballer then honestly you shouldn’t critique players. He is absolute light years ahead of Pereira and Lingard and will be comfortably one of the best players in our squad come the end of the season.

Some fans do not understand football. Everytime he got the ball he tried to make things happen.

I think the problem is some of our players he was passing to weren't expecting him to pass or make the pass because they have never got such service.

I know its picking bits but he played a ball outside of the foot to Martial and we got a corner, but if Martial was expecting it he would have got to that.

I think with training, the forwards should start making more runs knowing there is someone who will play a progressive pass.

What I liked was, he did not want to dwell on the ball, even if it was a pass back it was within 2 seconds not hold the ball wait until he gets pressed then pass.

 

[AndersB]

I think his performance is actually becoming overrated on here now. He had just arrived in Manchester, and by all means he did fine considering that. But he was trying a bit to hard, imo, to be that 'flashy player' we might be hoping for. And very little of it came off in the end. When people are starting to say the other players didn't understand him with their runs, it's becoming a bit too much of squeezing the square peg into the round hole for me.

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

Some of the arguments in here... it was his first game 48 hours after joining! Absolutely ridiculous pulling up stats and the rest of it.

 

[Adam-Utd]

@elánius and this is why stats will never show you the full picture of a match.

Give me 5/6 of his forward passes he did through the lines of the wolves midfield, over a 90% sideways passing percentage any day of the week.

No he didn't set the world on fire but he had a steady solid match.

 

[Geekie]

If that's considered an excellent/good debut (considered all the factors of him just being brought in and our movements being static etc.) then the standards are pretty low here. That said many of our players used to have stellar debuts then regressed at shocking pace, so hope he'll pull another Fred but I can totally do without as long a wait.

 

[bosnian_red]

He'll be fine. Hes a much better player than what we had, but also on his debut he had 1 training session, playing against one of the best defensively organized teams in the league, and we had some real shit movement from our attackers (and with no holding mid to actually provide a base, hence why we needed him and Fred deeper).

 

[Mani]

Amount of negativity in this thread is too much for the payer who had played is first match, one need to understand adapting to league itself would take sometime plus he's with his new teamates.In my eyes he's done fairly well for his debut match and I not keeping much expectation right now considering continental players to adopt to new league, anything we get out of him at this stage will be always a plus.

 

[Smashin]

Hopefully he doesnt get the Anderson treatment, turn a player with amazing attacking abilities into some sort of holding midfielder, far away from the opposition box.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Hopefully he doesnt get the Anderson treatment, turn a player with amazing attacking abilities into some sort of holding midfielder, far away from the opposition box.

Be a disgrace if this were to happen but it wouldn't surprise me.
We have a long history in putting round players in square holes.

 

[Freeney]

i’m afraid that people expect more than his talent is capable of. He’s a decent player who will add to our squad, but what we need in the summer is another ” blue ship” player in that midfield.

 

[Bondi77]

I would just like to hear Ole say what position he is going to play him in, he said they have watched him for years and they will find his best position.
It all just seems a bit clueless to me and when I read anything on MUTV it is like they are talking about a different team and not the one that I am watching.
We have bought this guy because we do not score enough goals and lack creativity and that is what he supplied in Lisbon so let us play him there and see if he can cut the mustard in the Premier League.

 

[SuperiorXI]

Hopefully he doesnt get the Anderson treatment, turn a player with amazing attacking abilities into some sort of holding midfielder, far away from the opposition box.

Up for debate. Remains to be seen as to whether he can translate this to the PL.

Personally not expecting much from Bruno. Let's see what he can do. Can't be much worse than Pereria/Lingard.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

I actually can’t believe what I’m reading in here - in fact this thread is making me consider quitting Redcafe for good.....

He had a good debut. He’d been in the country, what, 48 hours? Had one training session with the team.
you could see that he had skill, short and long passing, great overall technique and he had three bloody shots on target!! Some games we don’t have three shots on target as a WHOLE TEAM!

give this absolute crap about his performance a rest - if you can’t see from that outing that he’s a good footballer then honestly you shouldn’t critique players. He is absolute light years ahead of Pereira and Lingard and will be comfortably one of the best players in our squad come the end of the season.

Totally agree. Can't believe what i'm reading in here. Jeez this forum is really spiraling in a bad direction.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Got another flop on our hands,guys.
Only joking. Crikey,give him time...to become a flop.

It'll take a lot more than one game for us to coach his natural game out of him! Took weeks with Di Maria

 

[Irrational.]

Fred, Rashford, JLingz and all the other FK enthusiasts: step aside.

 

[charlenefan]

I like what I see

 

[Godfather]

Great vision and one hell of a right foot.

 

[Baxter]

Great touch and technique. Looks like he could be a cracking buy.

 

[podurban2]

Already loved by the fans

 

[dove]

For all the talk about his bad passing and him losing the ball a lot, he is nothing like that so far. Looks great so far.

 

[el3mel]

He was poor in first half but grew massively into the game in the second one. His delivery from set pieces, FKs and corners, are the best I have seen by a United player in ages. He should take all of them.

 

[spiriticon]

Give Sporting the rest of the 15 million already

 

[Zoo]

Some very nice subtle touches and has slotted in pretty seamlessly. Now to get him scoring.

 

[Icemav]

Incredible right foot. There is a lot of class there.