She ended up going from the villain in most fans eyes to being something of a hero in the last 4-5 episodes.
Television Breaking Bad
- Thread starter Burndogg
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She ended up going from the villain in most fans eyes to being something of a hero in the last 4-5 episodes.
Nothing! That is what you do, you sprinkle superlatives into everything you say - nothing wrong with it, I just don't really know how to take half of it.
The beauty of the Sopranos was that it was so multi-layered that so many things were left up to interpretation, but I just think you're so obsessed with the human personality that you're seeing things you want to see here. It's just something we have to agree to disagree on, but then I wasn't challenging you on it in this thread anyway. Let's leave this thread to the BB talk at least until the dust settles anyway.
That is one haunting face.
Nothing! That is what you do, you sprinkle superlatives into everything you say - nothing wrong with it, I just don't really know how to take half of it. The beauty of the Sopranos was that it was so multi-layered that so many things were left up to interpretation, but I just think you're so obsessed with the human personality that you're seeing things you want to see here. It's just something we have to agree to disagree on, but then I wasn't challenging you on it in this thread anyway. Let's leave this thread to the BB talk at least until the dust settles anyway.
That is one haunting face.
Fair enough, I do. I get very enthusiastic with things I like, admittedly.
That being said, I don't look for it; it just sticks out. To clarify, I'll draw the comparison with Breaking Bad. I think it's fair to say Breaking Bad is more towards the dramatic end of the spectrum, and that as a result the acting style tends to map that difference in the show's style. Think Gus (that is NOT to take anything away from his character!), the two brothers, the long drawn out stares (Walt/Hank in the garage), etc...
The Sopranos style of acting by comparison is grounded in a lot more realism, as you know. The setting is less suspenseful, with the vast majority of the emphasis being on the characters themselves in their more life-like roles. The acting is therefore synchronised with the sort of dialogue that emerges from that style, and the whole thing gets mightily close to replicating something genuinely realistic as a result. I think it's reasonable because of that to find a person's ability to take on the roles that those characters do, in conjunction with that type of atmosphere, 'deep'. It requires a more rounded and complex reaction to the narrative/setting from the actors in my opinion a lot of the time than some of the more extreme, purposely dramatic scenarios of Breaking Bad. That's why I say that I think they're all geniuses - the realism of the setting and dialogue requires that they match that with their acting performance. It's hard to properly explain without getting a bit philosophical, but the sort of intentions and feelings as actors that they have to generate because of that are very complex. The acting goes into great levels realism and almost every scrap of 'cliche-ness' is gone because of that, and personally I think that makes for a very pure form of acting. It's hugely untypical and unguided, and I think for the most part these actors are producing a more intricate psychology. Funnily enough though, you rightly mention the sub-plots with Meadow Soprano, but I don't actually think this applies to her as much. Same with AJ too, actually - I find these two more contrived.
Anyway, yeah... there are different ways you could look at this (you could maybe argue that the need to produce drama is a hindrance and requires adaptation), but that's my outlook regarding the immersion point. It's why I hold the acting performances of the cast of the Royle Family in such high esteem too - the same thing is going on there to an extent. It's not to say that the Breaking Bad cast or other actors aren't capable of this, but that's the reason that the characters of the Sopranos so unique, for me - they're acting like that (with that platform for expression) and pulling off the most subtle of developments in doing so. The character development, like the acting itself, matches that complex setting I yap on about up there, and that allows for a pretty much unparalleled level of immersion in my opinion.
Agree to disagree, though. I've not said anything I haven't said before so an agreement would never be reached. I also make that point there and say Breaking Bad's acting is more dramatic/artificial in style than The Sopranos', but it's not exactly a million miles away either. It also speaks volumes about the cast in my opinion that they can all be a part of that without the acting seeming Hollywood-ish for the most part, and it's stuff exactly like that image you posted there that makes me think Anna Gunn would walk straight into that style and excel. That woman is a very different person from the one at the start of the show no doubt, and that is the face of someone capable of imitating a very complex psychology.
*Anna Gunn is actually in Deadwood come to think of it - surprised I forgot about that.
I'm convinced that the moment Walt signaled for the laser-sights to appear on Gretchen & Elliott is the single greatest moment in television history.
Bit disappointing really, it was decent but nowhere near the best in the show which I hoped it would be.
7/10
7/10
Good ending. The man had his ride and enjoyed it till the end. So did I.
Incredible television show. Absolutely incredible.
I've watched it in it's entirety twice now, yet I would say that it's not quite a show that has great 'rewatch' value. It relies heavily on its suspense from episode-to-episode, and this is definitely diluted when you already know the plot inside out. That's only a minor gripe, even a bitter one, as I would love to watch this over and over in years to come.
All those families destroyed in just two years. Wrecked.
I've watched it in it's entirety twice now, yet I would say that it's not quite a show that has great 'rewatch' value. It relies heavily on its suspense from episode-to-episode, and this is definitely diluted when you already know the plot inside out. That's only a minor gripe, even a bitter one, as I would love to watch this over and over in years to come.
All those families destroyed in just two years. Wrecked.
Cracking acting from Elliot.
How, exactly?
He looks down before the laser beam is shone on his chest, though.
5/10 I'd give him.
5/10 I'd give him.
Watched up to the end of S5a twice (once the first time around like everyone else, and then re-watched it again a month before S5b aired), and then I've watched every new episode of S5b twice when it aired.
Science.
Yeah, 5 points for psychic ability in fairness.
I don't literally mean he was cracking.
It's more like pantomime type acting than the sort of stuff you'd expect to see in one of the best shows ever made.Thankfully he didn't feature in more than a couple of scenes, Mr. I'll defend myself with a butter knife.
Slightly disappointed, 2nd half of the season in general just felt slightly too rushed although there were some epic moments and episodes, they'd have really have benefited from even an extra episode or 2.
The major sticking point is there was just no resolution between Jesse and Walt. They uttered maybe 2 lines to eachother in the ending scenes? I expected a powerful scene where they open up to eachother which would've involved apologies, confessions, reminiscence, tears even, but we got nothing. Likewise Walt's scene with Skyler felt half-baked, I'd have thought a fuller explanation on how he wasn't the one who killed Hank and how it pained him was in order, but I simply think they didn't have the time.
Great series though, obviously, can't wait to watch it back at some point, probably soon. The days of Tuco seem like so long ago and they were some of my favourite moments.
The major sticking point is there was just no resolution between Jesse and Walt. They uttered maybe 2 lines to eachother in the ending scenes? I expected a powerful scene where they open up to eachother which would've involved apologies, confessions, reminiscence, tears even, but we got nothing. Likewise Walt's scene with Skyler felt half-baked, I'd have thought a fuller explanation on how he wasn't the one who killed Hank and how it pained him was in order, but I simply think they didn't have the time.
Great series though, obviously, can't wait to watch it back at some point, probably soon. The days of Tuco seem like so long ago and they were some of my favourite moments.
Eh, there was no way back for Walt and Jesse. Nothing they said could change what happened.
Well played.
There was never going to be a long scene of explanation and forgiveness between Jesse and Walt. Walt was visibly on the verge of death and Jesse despised him. But after all the shite that he pulled over the series, Walt still saved Jesse's life, killed his captors and let him walk with the last actions of his life. There was nothing close to forgiveness, but an acknowledgement of what Walt did for him and a reluctance to carry out the vengeance he's wanted for months. It was done perfectly, for me.
The only thing that detracted from the episode was Elliot's shockingly poor acting. He's dreadful, which is a surprise given how utterly brilliant the majority of the cast are.
That's great, the writers definately had this in the back of their mind while they wrote the last episode.
Not sure about the best but it was probably the most satisfying tv finale I have seen. Almost everything tied up in a nice bow with some absolutely great moments, what I want from an ending I suppose.
Yeah I agree, not necessarily reconciliation which was probably unrealistic given all the shit that has happened, but I would have liked to have seen something more between the two.
Agreed with this. Can't expect some mental ending because that's just not how endings work. Love the Marx Brothers reference too.
Not sure if you're serious, but if so, then I'd love to know why.
I think the show would have benefitted from one proper, 12 episode, final season, rather than the 2-part, 16 episodes. The pacing was a bit off.
I actually think it was the worst episode in the whole series. Very disappointing, but a great show nonetheless.
People will be disappointed because they were expecting something mental to happen.
Was looking for something way more creative than that after a few really good episodes. Not necessarily Walt surviving just something more elaborate. It was as straightforward as it gets. The part about his ex partners was funny, but really disappointing overall.
If you want a proper finale, you should look at The Shield or 6 feet under.
If you want a proper finale, you should look at The Shield or 6 feet under.
Or Spartacus !!
I just see Nigel from Suits now.
The only way I can see how people were disappointed by that finale is that they had built their expectations up to an unrealistic level. I thought it was brilliant.
fecking awesome
[Spoiler/]
Because Heisenberg was so fecking sinister arriving at the Schwartz household, creeping in how he did, I was loving it. I was disappointed then when it turned out that he just wanted to give them the money rather than mutilate their stiffening corpses - I was feeling rather deflated at first thinking that Heisenberg had gone to teach the Schwartz' a lesson only to find it was actually Walter White in their house just trying to get money to his kids. The moment he signalled for the laser-sights though changed all that, the music piped up all shadowy and ominous and Heisenberg was back with a bang scaring the absolute shit out of his old friends. It was awesome to see.
I think they ended it perfectly. It was predictable but pretty much the only way it could end whilst giving the viewers closure. They still did have some awesome scenes i.e. the lasers Most shows don't have a great finale, the best episodes usually come leading upto the final episode. In terms of final episodes, I think it ticked all the boxes.
Most shows don't have a great finale, the best episodes usually come leading upto the final episode. In terms of final episodes, I think it ticked all the boxes.Really surprised people are lamenting the fact Walt didn't have big showdowns or heart to hearts with Skyler or Jesse. They've had endless screaming arguments in both relationships and there was nothing more to be said. For me the two most moving scenes were Walt saying goodbye to Holly and Skyler's reaction in the background, and the nods of acknowledgement that Jesse and Walt shared in the car park before Jesse drove off to freedom. In both scenes the grief, lingering affection and the weight of the horrible, unique situations they've been through were conveyed, with the acknowledgement that it was the end for Walt and the start of a different life for each of them with him no longer in it. I thought they were brilliantly pointed scenes and for me, any huge heart to hearts or confess alls with every character attempting to voice such a complex set of emotions and thoughts would merely have demeaned the episode and the subtlty of the show.
I agree with you Agent Red.
It's been done so many times previously. The fact that there was so little emotion shown in those scenes was actually more powerful for me because Walt had accepted that he was done and there was nothing left to say.
Such an amazing show. Sad to see it leave, but glad it was on a high. I was saying to a colleague earlier how it's so impressive that the show kept such a high level for so long. The production of the show also has been outstanding. All the way from episode 1 to the end. Immense. Little things like the machine gun still whirring away in the background with the flames apparent in the boot. Genius.
Heisenberg!
It's been done so many times previously. The fact that there was so little emotion shown in those scenes was actually more powerful for me because Walt had accepted that he was done and there was nothing left to say.
Such an amazing show. Sad to see it leave, but glad it was on a high. I was saying to a colleague earlier how it's so impressive that the show kept such a high level for so long. The production of the show also has been outstanding. All the way from episode 1 to the end. Immense. Little things like the machine gun still whirring away in the background with the flames apparent in the boot. Genius.
Heisenberg!
Thought it was excellent. You can't have gone into the final episode expecting a twist. I think everybody knew that it was going to round off 99% of the edges other that Huell. The finale as such happened over the course of the past 4 episodes, and that's the way it should be seen and understood. It's just that because they break the episodes down into week after week, it's easy for some people to miss that. Take the last 4 episodes, stick them all together into one seamless video file and watch.
Amazing finale
Amazing finale
Good post Agent. Spot on
Did you get a sense of mixed emotions in Jesse's scream as he drove off? Total heartbreak and joy mixed into one.
If they were meant to convey that, he did it very well
Guessing you mean season, not series?
Aye could well be, this season was brilliant and the final certainly fell a bit flat compared with the others.
Still, a lot of people are saying that whilst it wasn't a great episode in itself, the ending was the right one for the show in its entirety which I guess could be true. Not overly convinced and I think they could have done a better job, but at least things got wrapped up.
Have people been calling for big heart to hearts? Not seen that myself.
For me I would have liked to see more to the scene with Jesse, that doesn't mean reconciliation as I said above.. Just something a bit more than what we got. The relationship between Walt and Jesse was the heart of the show and it barely got any screen time.