I normally agree with you Plech but Monday was the first time I thought we got away with it big time this year, I really can't remember any bad decisions going in our favour. Maybe Odemwingie at our place a few weeks ago but that was a 50/50 one, even the Murphy shout didnt look like one on first view and before that I felt the ref gave a lot of soft free kicks to Fulham.
Bluemoon goes into Meltdown
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I normally agree with you Plech but Monday was the first time I thought we got away with it big time this year, I really can't remember any bad decisions going in our favour. Maybe Odemwingie at our place a few weeks ago but that was a 50/50 one, even the Murphy shout didnt look like one on first view and before that I felt the ref gave a lot of soft free kicks to Fulham.
Even if there is corruption in any certain part of the league, i wouldn't want to know.
Will never be able to enjoy the league again, like i can't watch Cricket now.
Will never be able to enjoy the league again, like i can't watch Cricket now.
True, but we don't do ourselves any favours by giving the tin-hat brigade the ammo. There's been plenty of times this season when something dubious goes our way and I think brilliant, another headline to take away from our win.
Saying that, it's the same for every other team out there, we just get picked up on it because we're the greatest club in the land.
I hope we win every game until the end of the season with dubious decisions going our way in every game. I think it's brilliant watching folk scream corruption and other such nonsense
Especially when their sense of injustice can be refuted instantly by pointing out the way their club have got to where they are
My reaction is, yeah its RAWK time. Its funny to see their conspiracy theories. I don't give a shit about what other fans think neither do I want them to understand that its not corruption, since they will never understand. If they were smart enough they would have seen the stats. We have been wrong end of these things so many times, they just don't want to acknowledge that. They just want to continue living in their delusion. I understand if you are disappointed because your rivals got a favorable decision but conspiracy theories are laughable most of the times since they are baseless.
I don't get that at all. Wouldn't you rather win fairly, so that we know we really are the best, rather than relying on bad officiating?
I think he was exaggerating to highlight how funny the RAWK and Bluemoon conspiracy ranters are.
Their point's a silly one then. Stoke had an even better penalty claim against City. City got a handball decision against Chelsea, we didn't against Fulham. (And the worst penalty decision I've seen this season was Rio vs Ba.) We've not had any more luck than them this season, that is for all to see.
Chelsea mentioned a lot and there's more: Valencia should have had two absolute stonewallers in May. (My memory is shit but I watched the highlights again a few days ago. Shocking decisions.)my arse.
Here's the reason folk forget decisions that go against us.
We win anyway. We have bad decisions given against us...but most of time we overturn the scoreline...or simply defend well enough for it not to be talked about.
I've watched decisions not be given our way when they should, or against us when they shouldn't nearly every game...but you only remember the ones that cost you. Let me continue...maybe we'll just go back three years.
Newcastle (H) Peno that never was.
Stoke (a) Pen on Hernandez. Red card. Nothing given.
Chelsea (a) This season. Young brought down. Pen not given at 0-0
Chelsea (a) Few years back? Bullshit free kick against Fletch. Terry scores. Finishes 1-0
Arsenal (a) Bullshit peno against Fletch after we completely hammered you. Sent off. Misses European Cup Final.
Chelsea (H) Few years back Drogba. About 5 yards offside. Not given.
Birmingham (a) Last season. Equaliser in last minute. Blatant Handball. Goal given anyway.
Chelsea (a) Last season. 1-1. Pen given against Smalling. Never a pen.
Chelsea (a) Same game. Luiz should be shown red. Is not.
Arsenal (H) 2009. Adabeyor scores opener. With hand. We win 2-1 anyway.
Chelsea (H) Corner taken. Score. Disallowed because lino too thick to realise the corner was taken. Score from the retake.
Pompey (H) FA Cup. Longer than 3 years tbf. Ronaldo...Pen every day of the week. Not given.
These are just the ones that spring straight to mind...
Sammon's red was terrible (but we'd have won that game easily anyway).
I think you hit the nail on the had previously - a massive decision for any Ref at this stage of the season - give a penalty incorretly there and it blows the title race wide open.
As it is it may have looked like Carrick got a foot on it, and Murphy did himself no favours - my view you win some you lose suome and it evens itself out. For example, the pen at OT for Newcastle was very generous at best.
My City pal was dead on - Stoke should have had a pen against them and because they played first, nobody is making a noise about it.
Suggestions of corruption in PL football is ludicrous - even if we entertain the fairy tale notion for a split second surely if anything the PL would want the Title to go to the wire?
Bottom line - referees are falable, it was a tough decision to make under massive pressure. He probably got it wrong but those are the breaks - had City beat Stoke the other night they'd have a lot less to whinge about.
To think Kleberson and Eric Djemba-Djemba were each just 8 games short of the kind of status that Patrick Vieira appears to command as a Manchester City "legend"
Right, the one thing everyone's missing here, is the Newcastle away game, when Ferdinand DID foul Ba in the box. Nobody's mentioned it, and why is that? Because it didn't matter, Newcastle went and beat us comfortably. We all remember the game-changing decisions, because we want to know why we didn't win, and the refs are the easiest to blame.
In the same way people aren't highlighting Stoke's penalty, because they went and got a draw, so it didn't seem to matter as much, but when we get a decision go our way that could change the game, it goes under the microscope.
The two big factors why 'the big teams get the decisions' is one, they're better, and so they'll often have more of the ball in the area than the poor side. You can't be wrongly awarded a penalty when the ball isn't in the area. And two, the good sides make sure it doesn't matter. (Although I think it would've been harsh) We could've had a penalty in the first half for handball, but we won, so that decision means nothing now.
It's so blatantly clear, yet everyone ignores it to suit their agenda.
In the same way people aren't highlighting Stoke's penalty, because they went and got a draw, so it didn't seem to matter as much, but when we get a decision go our way that could change the game, it goes under the microscope.
The two big factors why 'the big teams get the decisions' is one, they're better, and so they'll often have more of the ball in the area than the poor side. You can't be wrongly awarded a penalty when the ball isn't in the area. And two, the good sides make sure it doesn't matter. (Although I think it would've been harsh) We could've had a penalty in the first half for handball, but we won, so that decision means nothing now.
It's so blatantly clear, yet everyone ignores it to suit their agenda.
Seems to me that pretty much every PL game has a 'controversial' moment nowadays. Its only the ones involving title-chasing or relegation-threatened teams that are news.
Personally I like the fact that officiating a game is still subject to human error, it adds to the drama. What I don't like about it is that these moments are almost always used as the reason for a teams failings, as though the other 92 mins 55 seconds of the match were merely build-up to the inevitable error that will dictate the result.
Personally I like the fact that officiating a game is still subject to human error, it adds to the drama. What I don't like about it is that these moments are almost always used as the reason for a teams failings, as though the other 92 mins 55 seconds of the match were merely build-up to the inevitable error that will dictate the result.
A big call for or against often decides the outcome of games. You'd have dropped two points the other night if the pen had been given, you did drop two against Newcastle on the back of a bad call against you. Refereeing has been very poor this season with loads of bad decisions.
Yeah the other factor is home support. I think it's naive to think it doesn't affect referees. Again it's rarely a conscious bias I'd imagine, but when fifty or seventy thousand people scream 'handball' in unison, your brain is presumably more likely to perceive the event as handball. When seventy thousand people go crazy every time you give a decision against their team, you probably start to believe you've given disproportionately many against them and are more inclined to look leniently on the next debatable one. Etc.
Given how good we are, how attacking we are, how much possession we have and how many fans we have, I'd actually expect us to get somewhat more penalties at home than anyone else, over time. If we don't, that's quite surprising, and it may imply something like refs compensating for the effects because of the constant public outcry against our decisions.
Gibson would do.
They decide every game when taken in isolation. Its a little unfair on the officials really. That ref had a good match before that one moment, and it didn't look anything like a stonewall penalty in real time. The angle Carrick's foot came in was exactly where the ball went after the incident.
Of course we have to accept that confirmation bias affects us as well. We see penalties as 'stone wall' or blatant dives when they're not, because we're watching the game through a filter of emotion, desperately wanting United to win and seeing that as the good outcome. We surely get more luck and less injustice than most of you think.
That said, I think there's a reason that it's Liverpool and City fans who most go in for this, more than Arsenal and Chelsea. Liverpool fans have a vision of themselves as the most successful club who play the best football. But we've won incessantly for two decades while (until a couple of years ago) playing football widely praised as magnificent. The only way their fantasy can be squared with actual reality is by believing that the reality is fake - i.e. fixed. And City fans have a lot invested in overtaking us now that they can't just blame wealth disparities... so if they don't it has to be us cheating, otherwise it's their fault.
That said, I think there's a reason that it's Liverpool and City fans who most go in for this, more than Arsenal and Chelsea. Liverpool fans have a vision of themselves as the most successful club who play the best football. But we've won incessantly for two decades while (until a couple of years ago) playing football widely praised as magnificent. The only way their fantasy can be squared with actual reality is by believing that the reality is fake - i.e. fixed. And City fans have a lot invested in overtaking us now that they can't just blame wealth disparities... so if they don't it has to be us cheating, otherwise it's their fault.
Murphy's fall made it look so much like a dive and that surely influenced the ref as much as the 70k staring him down. It should've been a penalty but upon the first replay it looked to me like a very faint touch and Murphy throwing himself to the ground. The ref got it wrong, but Murphy is partly to blame for him getting it wrong, and it wasn't a howler by any means. Englishmen are great at making their dives look like dives, just look at Rooney, Gerrard, Ashley Young, etc., I'm just surprised refs fall for it so often.
That's why I didn't mention it, for me it had no real impact on the rest of the game.
Assuming they had scored the penalty.
I'm sure penalty conversion % is only something like 70 this year.
Two interesting articles on a recently-discovered blog might be relevant:
http://thepowerofgoals.blogspot.co.uk/2011/11/penalty-kicks-in-epl.html
http://thepowerofgoals.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/epl-referees-appear-to-show.html
I was thinking of making a thread about the second, but it's not conclusive.
Two interesting articles on a recently-discovered blog might be relevant:
http://thepowerofgoals.blogspot.co.uk/2011/11/penalty-kicks-in-epl.html
http://thepowerofgoals.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/epl-referees-appear-to-show.html
I was thinking of making a thread about the second, but it's not conclusive.
Or we'd have been out of sight had the 'handball' penalty been given in our favour.
I say 'handball' because I don't really think those should be given, but it was almost a carbon copy of the one City got against Chelsea (as well as others that have been given) and the lack of consistency is just as annoying as the totally wrong calls.
With proper refereeing, we'd be up more points than we're down this season, for sure.
They all still cool calm and collected over there?
Have they locked out the unregistered members yet? Bluemoon will be a good read later on this evening.
Can you say, implosion?
Bottled it, hundreds of millions spent and they still cannot topple us.
Looks like we jumped the gun a bit here
Well I nearly shit my pants there
Looks like we jumped the gun a bit here
Drawing at home to Sunderland in a title race is still bottling it, this was a huge blow for them.
Looks like we jumped the gun a bit here
A draw to sunderland at home is still a terrible result for them.
I'm sure they didn't expect it either
In my opinion they were denied 2 stone wall penalties
Send for Vieira!