Not that I've got anything against them for, you know....supporting city.
Bluemoon goes into Meltdown
- Thread starter Logan!
- Start date
Regarding the Fulham game, after seeing loads of replays of the Carrick incident at the end of the game, yes it was a penalty. But only JUST, and from the angle the referee was standing it actually looked very much like Carrick got the ball.
Why does it always have to be conspiracies and favouring? From where the ref was, it didn't look like a penalty, the player went down as if he'd been hit by a train which was nowhere near the reaction that was needed from the very small amount of contact he got, so from the ref's point of view it looked like Carrick got the ball and then the other player over-exaggerated their fall - they're bound to not give the penalty.
The ref just made a very understandable mistake. There was no conspiracy, or favouring, it simply didn't look like a penalty from where he was standing. That happens in loads of other games and for loads of other teams.
Why does it always have to be conspiracies and favouring? From where the ref was, it didn't look like a penalty, the player went down as if he'd been hit by a train which was nowhere near the reaction that was needed from the very small amount of contact he got, so from the ref's point of view it looked like Carrick got the ball and then the other player over-exaggerated their fall - they're bound to not give the penalty.
The ref just made a very understandable mistake. There was no conspiracy, or favouring, it simply didn't look like a penalty from where he was standing. That happens in loads of other games and for loads of other teams.
Most unsuccessful people have to have scapegoats - they couldnt deal with the fact that they are just not good enough for what they want.
But... why can't it just have been a mistake?! It's so annoying... from where the ref was standing it really did look like it wasn't a penalty. With the benefit of continued slow-motion replays from about 7 different angles we can JUST about see that Carrick caught him (JUST), but when it happened, I didn't think it was a penalty, and the player did himself no favours by over-exaggerating and going down like he'd just been hit by a truck. It was bound to look suspiciously like a dive from where the ref was standing... the ref made a really reasonable mistake. He's not perfect, he hasn't got the benefit of watching loads of replays. Those kind of mistakes happen constantly in football, to all different teams. And they happen equally between the teams.
my arse.Here's the reason folk forget decisions that go against us.
We win anyway. We have bad decisions given against us...but most of time we overturn the scoreline...or simply defend well enough for it not to be talked about.
I've watched decisions not be given our way when they should, or against us when they shouldn't nearly every game...but you only remember the ones that cost you. Let me continue...maybe we'll just go back three years.
Newcastle (H) Peno that never was.
Stoke (a) Pen on Hernandez. Red card. Nothing given.
Chelsea (a) This season. Young brought down. Pen not given at 0-0
Chelsea (a) Few years back? Bullshit free kick against Fletch. Terry scores. Finishes 1-0
Arsenal (a) Bullshit peno against Fletch after we completely hammered you. Sent off. Misses European Cup Final.
Chelsea (H) Few years back Drogba. About 5 yards offside. Not given.
Birmingham (a) Last season. Equaliser in last minute. Blatant Handball. Goal given anyway.
Chelsea (a) Last season. 1-1. Pen given against Smalling. Never a pen.
Chelsea (a) Same game. Luiz should be shown red. Is not.
Arsenal (H) 2009. Adabeyor scores opener. With hand. We win 2-1 anyway.
Chelsea (H) Corner taken. Score. Disallowed because lino too thick to realise the corner was taken. Score from the retake.
Pompey (H) FA Cup. Longer than 3 years tbf. Ronaldo...Pen every day of the week. Not given.
These are just the ones that spring straight to mind...
That would be too easy for the deluded idiots at Bluemoon and RAWK even the Arsenal fans on here.
To say that the PL is bent and everybody wants United to win it all the time is crazy , but they must find it easier to believe this than the fact there own team is not good enough to win.
We have just as many decisions going against us as every other club, they're just automatically ignored and forgotten by opposition fans as soon as they've happened.
It's a cliche, but swings and roundabouts. Decisions go for you, decisions go against.
No mention from the City fans in all their ranting about the fact that Stoke should have got a penalty against them in their last game.
It's a cliche, but swings and roundabouts. Decisions go for you, decisions go against.
No mention from the City fans in all their ranting about the fact that Stoke should have got a penalty against them in their last game.
Stoke away this season. Woodgate on Hernandez. Shouldve been a red and a pen within 5 minutes. Instead we get nothing and Hernandez gets injured
It has alot to do with the fact we have enough quality to come back and win games we have bad decisions given against us in. Or, in all reality, those bad decisions don't lead to us conceding a goal.
They're simply forgotten.
I notice City - in all their rantings about conspiracies and favouring - are failing to mention that Stoke should have got a penalty against them in their last game. Somehow, that magically didn't happen now.
I also didn't see anywhere near as much discussion and and debate about Stoke not getting that penalty. Where were all the newspaper articles and pundits coming out with how lucky City were in that game?
It's always United who get decimated and have calls of 'favouring' if they get a decision for them. If another team get a favourable decision, it's hardly mentioned and automatically forgotten.
I also didn't see anywhere near as much discussion and and debate about Stoke not getting that penalty. Where were all the newspaper articles and pundits coming out with how lucky City were in that game?
It's always United who get decimated and have calls of 'favouring' if they get a decision for them. If another team get a favourable decision, it's hardly mentioned and automatically forgotten.
I have to say, normally I think these criticisms are deluded, but this season we seem to have got a major decision in our favour almost every game I've watched.
Obviously it's not corruption. You'd expect there to be more decisions for us than for most other sides, since we have a lot of possession, attack a lot and have a bigger home support (home crowds inevitably influence refs).
But I think there is an element of fear as Jol said. A ref in a situation like the other night may well have a moment's doubt as to whether it's worth the fallout from a title-changing moment when he's not 100% sure it was a foul.
Obviously it's not corruption. You'd expect there to be more decisions for us than for most other sides, since we have a lot of possession, attack a lot and have a bigger home support (home crowds inevitably influence refs).
But I think there is an element of fear as Jol said. A ref in a situation like the other night may well have a moment's doubt as to whether it's worth the fallout from a title-changing moment when he's not 100% sure it was a foul.
How about Ballotelli stamping on someones fecking head?
The thug twat.
Before scoring the winner.
The thug twat.
Before scoring the winner.
Everything United do is magnified though, it always has. When Tommy Doc went off with the physio's wife, it was th worst thing in the world, for example. If we get a dodgy penalty decision, it's all over the papers, but the ridiculous decisions which cost us two points against Newcastle, are forgotten. They could cost us the title
Woah. Exaggeration.
I might have only watched two games for all you know 
Well if he's not 100% sure it's a foul, he can't give a penalty regardless of whether he's shat himself. This particular case should have been a penalty but I only came to that conclusion having seen several slo mo replays and I still think Murphy is a cheating scouse twat given the way he went down as if hit by an axe rather than being touched on the side of the boot.
In theory, but in practice how often are they 100% sure? You have to make a judgment call. If that same incident had happened at 0-0 in the eighth minute in the centre circle, I reckon he'd have given the foul.
It's not like it's a conscious thing either, the ref thinking "Hmm... almost certainly a pen, but feck me if I'm wrong I've probably cost United the league and I'm fecked." It's a load of sensory information going into his poor referee's brain - getting tired now, time running out, look at watch, Fulham break, legs in contact, bit divey, nervous crowd noise, time really running out, vague unwanted background memory of walking in on parents having sex, I'm on camera, shit, shit... wave play on.
"Doc's up Mrs Brown, Doc's up Mrs Brown..." Happy days
That was a while ago, wasn't it? We've improved since then
This is the best argument I've seen yet as to why refs should have to come on TV afterwards and explain themselves... "I lost concentration because I suddenly recalled finding Mum bent over the mangle whilst Dad took her from behind... the dog was in there somewhere as well..."
"Oh right... over to you Gary.."
That was a while ago, wasn't it? We've improved since then
In what sense? I used to love Doc's teams! All out attack, crazy offside trap.. didn't win much in comparison to these days but it was brilliant!
Gary's analysis with his special pen would be particularly worth watching.
who cares? Ref didnt give it. Move on.
As for City; lesson number 1: Dont drop points
As for City; lesson number 1: Dont drop points
I guess their point is that we'd have failed to apply lesson number one if the ref hadn't failed to apply the rules.
All Football forums are blind in how they perceive their club and so they should be but common sense goes out of the window for the most part. Bluemoon is in danger of usurping RAWK in the "they didn't just type that" stakes. I have friends who are blues that are embarrassed that Bluemoon is highly regarded as one of the best Football forums around.
We're no saints here on Redcafe by any means but christ, a 50 page thread on corruption?! If they feel so strongly about it surely they could get some form of petition sent to the F.A with the amount of members they have on there. I would love to see it happen.
We're no saints here on Redcafe by any means but christ, a 50 page thread on corruption?! If they feel so strongly about it surely they could get some form of petition sent to the F.A with the amount of members they have on there. I would love to see it happen.
Well, we've won more, I meant really. But yes, the football was great.
meh..how many games would we have dropped points?
When applied fairly, how many points would the other challengers have dropped?
The system has never worked like that. Everyone plays to the same rules. Its complete BS, started by scousers that Fergie is the Dark overlord of the PL, nay, the Dark Overlord of Football and directs his referees into battle on a big tactics board.
Ignorant cnuts. Just dont be crap at football.
I agree, in general.
This season though, almost every time I've watched us I seem to have thought at some point, "Woah, we got lucky there, the conspiracy theorists will be out in force". I've not seen many City games so I don't know how it's been for them.
Obviously, it's unlikely to account for the, er, 31 point gap between us and the Scousers.
This season though, almost every time I've watched us I seem to have thought at some point, "Woah, we got lucky there, the conspiracy theorists will be out in force". I've not seen many City games so I don't know how it's been for them.
Obviously, it's unlikely to account for the, er, 31 point gap between us and the Scousers.
People on here keep pointing to that 'correct' PL table which shows we've had more wrong decisions against us than for us this season. The truth is that refs make mistakes, sometimes absolute howlers like the Newcastle penalty against Rio. The old maxim for refs is to give what you see so the cases where they give a penalty when there's no contact at all with the player (like the Rio one) is pretty hard to take. The foul on Murphy was very difficult for the ref to see and Murphy threw himself to the floor so it's quite easy to see why the ref didn't give it, it wasn't a howler. If it had been our player going into the box, I'd be annoyed but I wouldn't keep going on about it or start mounting conspiracy theories. The ref got it wrong but it was an understandable mistake that happens sometimes.
Here's the reason folk forget decisions that go against us.
We win anyway. We have bad decisions given against us...but most of time we overturn the scoreline...or simply defend well enough for it not to be talked about.
I've watched decisions not be given our way when they should, or against us when they shouldn't nearly every game...but you only remember the ones that cost you. Let me continue...maybe we'll just go back three years.
Newcastle (H) Peno that never was.
Stoke (a) Pen on Hernandez. Red card. Nothing given.
Chelsea (a) This season. Young brought down. Pen not given at 0-0
Chelsea (a) Few years back? Bullshit free kick against Fletch. Terry scores. Finishes 1-0
Arsenal (a) Bullshit peno against Fletch after we completely hammered you. Sent off. Misses European Cup Final.
Chelsea (H) Few years back Drogba. About 5 yards offside. Not given.
Birmingham (a) Last season. Equaliser in last minute. Blatant Handball. Goal given anyway.
Chelsea (a) Last season. 1-1. Pen given against Smalling. Never a pen.
Chelsea (a) Same game. Luiz should be shown red. Is not.
Arsenal (H) 2009. Adabeyor scores opener. With hand. We win 2-1 anyway.
Chelsea (H) Corner taken. Score. Disallowed because lino too thick to realise the corner was taken. Score from the retake.
Pompey (H) FA Cup. Longer than 3 years tbf. Ronaldo...Pen every day of the week. Not given.
These are just the ones that spring straight to mind...
Sadly, ABU's never remember these, we always do though.
Here's the reason folk forget decisions that go against us.
We win anyway. We have bad decisions given against us...but most of time we overturn the scoreline...or simply defend well enough for it not to be talked about.
I've watched decisions not be given our way when they should, or against us when they shouldn't nearly every game...but you only remember the ones that cost you. Let me continue...maybe we'll just go back three years.
Newcastle (H) Peno that never was.
Stoke (a) Pen on Hernandez. Red card. Nothing given.
Chelsea (a) This season. Young brought down. Pen not given at 0-0
Chelsea (a) Few years back? Bullshit free kick against Fletch. Terry scores. Finishes 1-0
Arsenal (a) Bullshit peno against Fletch after we completely hammered you. Sent off. Misses European Cup Final.
Chelsea (H) Few years back Drogba. About 5 yards offside. Not given.
Birmingham (a) Last season. Equaliser in last minute. Blatant Handball. Goal given anyway.
Chelsea (a) Last season. 1-1. Pen given against Smalling. Never a pen.
Chelsea (a) Same game. Luiz should be shown red. Is not.
Arsenal (H) 2009. Adabeyor scores opener. With hand. We win 2-1 anyway.
Chelsea (H) Corner taken. Score. Disallowed because lino too thick to realise the corner was taken. Score from the retake.
Pompey (H) FA Cup. Longer than 3 years tbf. Ronaldo...Pen every day of the week. Not given.
These are just the ones that spring straight to mind...
This.
Yeah all I'm going on is a feeling, so if the stats don't back me up then fair enough. Perhaps I'm suffering from a sort of reverse confirmation bias, where I'm primed to notice the decisions we get because there's so much noise about them.
I agree Murphy went down easily, but I'm not sure I'd say it wasn't a howler, the foul looked pretty clear. Then again, that's the risk you run when you dive to accentuate a foul.
the two 'penalty' incidents crossed out each other this season imo. that is all.
one that should not have been given and the other that should have been.
I 'felt' more decisions went against us last season.
But hey if it makes the scousers vomit their lungs out...I'm happy.
one that should not have been given and the other that should have been.
I 'felt' more decisions went against us last season.
But hey if it makes the scousers vomit their lungs out...I'm happy.
Anything that makes City feel like things are not going their way is good.
The reason I'd say it wasn't a howler was that it was difficult to see... the first replay I saw from behind I thought Carrick hadn't touched him, it was only after a couple of slow mo replays from an angle neither the ref or the linesman had that I saw the slight contact between Carrick's foot and the outside of Murphy's boot which was what he was waiting for before doing his triple somersault. The ref didn't see it, so it's not a howler.
The howler is more like the Rio one when the linesman has a rubbish view, the ref is looking through a crowd of players and they "see" a foul that didn't happen and give a completely wrong decision that influences the result. Or where a ref has a clear view of an obvious infringement and doesn't give it.
Give what you see, don't guess. And if you don't see it, you can't give it.
According to that website, this is us this season:
I think most sensible football fans get over bad decisions very quickly unless they're really bad, such as the Newcastle penalty earlier this season, or the obscene Drogba offside in 2010. The other obvious exception is if the fan in question supports Liverpool, I can't even begin to imagine how bitter they'd be if they'd effectively lost the title to this.
erm 'this' 403's
Fixed it.
A ref in ALL CIRCUMSTANCES should not give a Penalty unless he's convinced it's a penalty (more likely than not, or more probable than not is just not enough). The "situation like the other night" is just normal situation where the referee did not feel sure he saw an incident worthy of a Penality, no matter who the team such decision is in favour of.
Mistakes happen, and over the season, they even out. People should really have a look at this site someone post above: http://www.debatabledecisions.com/tables
The "more decisions have been made in our favour" nonsense is what it is, NONSENSE!