Whichever one which I spend more time thinking about..... obviously.
Bluemoon goes into Meltdown
- Thread starter Logan!
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Whichever one which I spend more time thinking about..... obviously.
I was waiting for someone to say that. What are the circumstances though? Would I know that it was my decision that killed the people, or would I be oblivious? Because though I can accept the death of 50,000 people from natural disaster, if I thought for one second that it was all at my command just so we could win the treble then I guess that'd feck me up somewhat... oh feck it, the treble, man!
Yeah, I figured it'd be the treble, I keep forgetting we're on an internet forum full of die hard, red to the marrow of me bones, super fans.
That is a normal reaction, you're not alone. I for one, don't really feel that much sympathy for the plight of the Libyan's etc purely because I'm so disgusted by the politics/hypocrisy of the whole situation i.e. once they get their freedom - the liberators soon become the oppressors and the whole cycle begins again, whereas the Japan earthquake touched me emotionally, purely because its nature's doing, unpreventable and mass suffering on a huge scale.
We're inherently rational/irrational and one persons reactions to something, don't neccessarily dictate a specified response for someone else responding to the same situation. I.e. for you the rape story > japan story, whereas for me it was other way round, though in that particular example I felt for both.
Having a sense of perspective is a vital attribute in making sense of life, many absolve any sort of moral responsibility by just saying, heck thats what my gut instinct told me (I'm hardwired that way).
What are the circumstances though? Would I know that it was my decision that killed the people, or would I be oblivious? Because though I can accept the death of 50,000 people from natural disaster, if I thought for one second that it was all at my command just so we could win the treble then I guess that'd feck me up somewhat... oh feck it, the treble, man!
Why does it matter what the circumstances are?? It's not even a relevant question, if anyone would choose the latter they need their heads looking at
I'm no top red, Christ!
How would us winning the treble kill 50,000 Japanese people?
It wouldn't, its a hypothetical question, they go hand in hand as one option.
fecks sake you have completely misunderstood our perspective from day one. I've said that I only concern myself with things that effect me and things that I can impact upon.
If I could chose between thousands perishing or utd winning the league I would save the people. I would be inhuman if I did otherwise.
It doesn't make you a bad person to admit that you are more emotional about utd losing than the disaster in Japan, if you admitted it at a dinner party it would make you very unpopular but on this forum I can be as honest as I want without any real negative impact on my life. I don't think that feeling this way makes me any less human or emotionally mature than you.
It wouldn't, it was quite obviously a hypothetical question. Why are you even debating it? There's obviously only one answer
Taking your argument to it's logical conclusion would see you giving up any money you spend on watching Utd and giving it to charity.
I assume you haven't done this. Are you now as "immature" as everyone else you are labelling so?
That's not the point though. No one (in their right mind) would hurt anyone to win a trophy.
It's about which event affects us more.
United win the treble and you realize that 1000 lives on the other side of the world have been saved. Which event is going to make you go down to the pub to celebrate?
Here's another question.
Did any of you jump up and down and shout with joy when you first heard about tsunami survivors being found alive several days after the event with the same intenbsity of emotion you felkt when Berbatov scored last weekend?
If not, why not?
Did any of you jump up and down and shout with joy when you first heard about tsunami survivors being found alive several days after the event with the same intenbsity of emotion you felkt when Berbatov scored last weekend?
If not, why not?
Jump up and down? No, its one or two lives when tens of thousands weren't saved. Was I incredibly glad and heartened by the story? Yes.
Would I have traded the Utd result for someone else being found alive? Of course I would.
What a wonderful conversation!
I'd save the people I suppose. But I'm not saying here that I don't care about people so much as to willingly slaughter them just so United can win trophies ffs; I'm saying that as of right now I care more about United than I do 50,000 Japanese people... if I were some kind of deity or potential genocidal maniac then my opinions and emotions might alter somewhat, you know?
You are misrepresenting people's views if you think they wouldn't also. Or misunderstanding them.
Bluemoon goes into Meltdown goes into Meltdown
Like it or not, it actually is.
We should do a poll
What made us sadder Tsunami or getting hammered by Liverpool. I think I know what the winner will be.
And its obviously going to be Utd. A team we all follow, read about, talk about and write about every single day and have done for many many years. It is only natural.
I am sure we were all shocked by the footage in Japan last week and expresses sympathy. But I very much doubt many of us shed a tear or thought about it non stop for days.
What made us sadder Tsunami or getting hammered by Liverpool. I think I know what the winner will be.
And its obviously going to be Utd. A team we all follow, read about, talk about and write about every single day and have done for many many years. It is only natural.
I am sure we were all shocked by the footage in Japan last week and expresses sympathy. But I very much doubt many of us shed a tear or thought about it non stop for days.
I'd take 100,000 for the Treble.
The Chelsea match was the real tough one for me to take 
City take that many to most away games!
This is such a strange debate.
I think you are definitely right in a sense, and I suppose so would Eyepopper given we had more exposure and detail to the story, which might shape our reactions and emotional response to it. Personally, I think we could have been spared some of the details, and just heard the title yet felt more of a 'feeling' then major tragedies, due to the extremity of what it was. The scale in some of these recent tragedies is overwhelming, and as you say the minute detail, it could have a bigger impact on what we feel towards it, knowing exactly what happened.
I don't think they should ever be compared to a game of football, the idea behind it is offensive. But, if we are talking about stronger emotional responses towards incidents, I think it's natural to have one over our football teams, because we are more involved in it, there's a connection there and a deep interest regardless of how much detail there is or isn't. It's not nice to make the comparison, because regardless of which situation we have a stronger emotional interest in, it's immaterial, in one case a game of football was lost, in the other, people have died.
We might feel stronger about the football scenario but it's important to recognize which one truly matters. With football, it's a bond that we have developed over the years where the consequences of winning or loosing mean more to us now then before, for some this could be decades, it's bound to affect you, whereas a tragedy, other then the scale of death/destruction, probably won't directly affect you. It's not something that I think of over the course of every single day, but for as many years as I can remember, United is.
Because anyone who has any vestige or concern for something gives up everything else right?
You jumped up and down (or whatever) when Berbatov scored though, right?
Is it a sign of immaturity and lack of emotional intelligence that you didn't feel the same intensity of joy on watching someone's father/mother/sibling rescued from almost certain death?
I feel like a shit United fan atm. I'm basically over all our defeats, and looking forward to making up for them... the fact we still have the opportunity to make up for them being of optimal importance.
How many of those who died in the Tsunami and their families, how many of them have the chance to make up for it?
Losing to Liverpool.. big feckin deal, we'll play them twice next season, we will probably beat them.. I don't see the big deal. Barca in the CL 2008, perhaps yes.. pretty big deal but we're in the QF's, we can concievably make up for it.
How many of those who died in the Tsunami and their families, how many of them have the chance to make up for it?
Losing to Liverpool.. big feckin deal, we'll play them twice next season, we will probably beat them.. I don't see the big deal. Barca in the CL 2008, perhaps yes.. pretty big deal but we're in the QF's, we can concievably make up for it.
Why can it not be that we have a stronger emotional response to a United defeat then a major tragedy, but, we can still recognize the far bigger importance and significance of the tragedy?
Popper is digging himself into an ever deeper hole as time passes.
Exactly, sense of perspective. What d'you think I've been banging on about, admitting we act a certain way but acknowledging that its not exactly a rational response.
Exactly. Which is were the City fan that started this debate is coming from. Seems a perfectly reasonable response to me.
Surely it's all relative though....God knows how many people die every single day, in circumstances that range from the normal to inconcievable, how many spare a thought for them? Us losing on the weekend will give me more food for thought then the thousands who lost their lives in the same 24 hours, but then of course it would.
Although I agree with Eyepopper that making a comparison to begin with is immature. It's not the same as all those people losing their lives in the Japan tradegy, and regardless of which one might make you feel worse (for us, considering we aren't there and it doesn't affect us, it will be football), one is very clearly worse then the other.
Although I agree with Eyepopper that making a comparison to begin with is immature. It's not the same as all those people losing their lives in the Japan tradegy, and regardless of which one might make you feel worse (for us, considering we aren't there and it doesn't affect us, it will be football), one is very clearly worse then the other.
It's all about maintaining sanity really - we see these disasters relatively often, always it's a shock, but it's a repeated shock and eventually you feel alienated from it - their is a limit to grief, if you consider it on the personal one-on-one human level a tragedy is so much more profound - if however you consider this on the mass-scale, in the tens of thousands the mind literally cannot process that much grieving, the idea of the individual in each case and then the sympathy you have towards the surviving loved ones. The mind simply has to close off to this.
Now, United, a loss is much more real to the human mind - we have reminders of it, we have the fear of what'll it do too something we actually love (you have to consider the banter, the knock on effects of the loss on our seasons) all this 'false' griefs are good for the mind, the mind isn't closed off too these in the same way because we can process these - we're not alienated from them.
The mind is very good at shutting out what it can't comprehend, or else you'd be an emotional wreck very quickly. We donate and move on. It's a harsh reality.
Now, United, a loss is much more real to the human mind - we have reminders of it, we have the fear of what'll it do too something we actually love (you have to consider the banter, the knock on effects of the loss on our seasons) all this 'false' griefs are good for the mind, the mind isn't closed off too these in the same way because we can process these - we're not alienated from them.
The mind is very good at shutting out what it can't comprehend, or else you'd be an emotional wreck very quickly. We donate and move on. It's a harsh reality.
My point is comparing them in the first place is immature and lacks emotional intelligence.
I stand by that, from the hole I've dug myself into according to weaste.
I'm going to ban you all for derailing this thread.
No-one I have read on here is comparing a football match to a tsunami, merely their individual response to both events and how they are impacted emotionally.
Silly to compare them, because it's inconsiderate of others, but I'm not sure it lacks emotional intelligence.
It's blunt and unnesseary, but also an example of how powerful our emotional responses can be, despite what we know being more important.
It's blunt and unnesseary, but also an example of how powerful our emotional responses can be, despite what we know being more important.
Exactly - it shows irrationality is implicit in emotional response.
It seems to me that you're afraid and ashamed of your own inherent selfishness, and as such you're trying to deny it and then protect the illusion of yourself as the purely altruistic humanitarian by calling into question the maturity and intelligence of anyone who challenges that view. Just saying, like.