Blessing in disguise or madness?

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Raees

Pythagoras in Boots
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Now I know there is a seperate thread to discuss the ongoing Rooney transfer saga and I don't want this thread falling into a discussion of whether the transfer rumours are true and what not, personally I take anything they say with a very large pinch of salt.

Anyway regardless these stories and our recent troubles on the pitch have got me thinking, if the rumours about Wayne have an element of truth to them, is the chance to sell Rooney a 'gift' that we should capitalise on or is it the final nail in the coffin of Fergies chances of winning a third and probable final European cup.

Gift​

In the next few seasons we shall see the inevitable departure of VDS, Neville, Scholes and Giggs. Three of those are stalwarts of the current side and there is no doubting that the quality of the side dips heavily when all three are missing...you just have to see the impact of losing Giggs v the Baggies to see that we didn't have a left sided player on the bench to come on and replace him like for like.

We are famous for having good squads, but personally I feel the current side doesn't have enough proper first teamers who we can rely on to perform against the elite of europe if thrust into the side...not enough regulars and too many fringe players. By this I mean likes of Carrick/Anderson/Park/Gibson and not enough Nani/Hernandez's, players who you can see actually becoming fixtures in the side.

So far thankfully due to the presence of the old guard, we haven't been exposed too much even though our performance levels have declined since 07/08 but once they're gone we are going to need to invest and we need cash.

If Rooney was to leave soon and we were to get £60-70 million (not to mention a reduced wage bill) and in return we could guarantee that we could sign the likes of Bale, Modric/Sneijder/creative mid in general, and Rodwell/P.Jones/defensive mid in general... would it be prudent to do so and leave behind a well balanced team for the future with a long shelf life? Dare we say it... would we actually be a stronger team for it?

Madness

On the other hand to get rid of one of the worlds marquee players, would it damage the reputation of the club...would we have less of a fear factor for opposition teams. There is also no guarantee whatsoever the players we want to sign would want to come to a club whose pulling power is fading.

Is it a step too far to get rid of a player who is usually acclaimed as the heart and soul of the current side, a guy who when on form makes our team such a great team to watch and can destroy teams single-handedly and almost won us the league single-handedly... is it worth getting rid of such a talent for three lesser talents albeit if they make the squad and the first team more balanced?

Now this whole debate I wish to discuss is based on an hypothetical premise, i.e. the Rooney rumours may have an element of truth to them, so disregarding whether or not that is a load of bullshit etc and whether Fergie or Rooney is more pivotal to the club. Just your honest opinion and analysis of whether you think we'd be a better team by selling Rooney and reinvesting in the team in a number of areas or retaining an established world-reknowned talisman... your thoughts?
 
I would sell Rooney to City if they clear all our debt in exchange.

Everyone remembers the circus that followed when they got Tevez, imagine what would happen if they bagged Rooney as well. The bitters and the media would go absolutely hysterical.
 
Everyone remembers the circus that followed when they got Tevez, imagine what would happen if they bagged Rooney as well. The bitters and the media would go absolutely hysterical.

Rightly so. They would have the better side and would have stolen the jewel in our crown.
 
IMO, the long term affects of losing Rooney might not be worth the gamble, but then again if it's a choice between SAF and Rooney, there would only be 1 choice, really.

The only problem I have with losing Rooney would be what it would do to the long term reputation of the club/pulling power for future transfers. If we lose Rooney and replace him by spending the money wisely, for eg, as the OP suggested, then I'd be for it - IF the rumours of Rooney's behaviour is correct.

I don't think we have ever been a club signing "marquee" players anyway, and hence I wouldn't be expecting us to sign a player for 50-60M, but adding the quality of 2-3 potentially very good players and improving the overall quality in the squad, i'd be for it.

No one is bigger then the club.
 
We don't need to sell Rooney before we buy players. Keep Rooney and buy a couple of those you listed. Why sell him?
 
Even for the sake of hypothetically clearing our debt, keeping our dignity is alot more valuable.

I have to disagree with that.

I'd take being the 'second' team in the City to have a debt free club. We can always rebuild from that position.

The debt issue is becoming really concerning.
 
If there is a untenable relationship between a player and manager then there surely isnt much point in keeping the player?
Players come and go.
 
I have to disagree with that.

I'd take being the 'second' team in the City to have a debt free club. We can always rebuild from that position.

The debt issue is becoming really concerning.

True.

I'd accept being the second team in Manchester, but I wouldn't accept selling our best players to them, with them essentially bailing us out. We have the fanbase to rebuild from whatever position we end up in at the end of the Glazer saga.

But hey! That's just me
 
Being the second team in Manchester.. for more local fans, I don't know if that would be more unbearable for them. Personally I'd much rather have a secure financially viable club than pushing for short term success and putting the clubs long term existence at risk.
 
True.

I'd accept being the second team in Manchester, but I wouldn't accept selling our best players to them, with them essentially bailing us out. We have the fanbase to rebuild from whatever position we end up in at the end of the Glazer saga.

But hey! That's just me

I don't believe we do.

We have a massive 'fanbase', if you count the millions of 'consumers' who basically latch onto the teams who are most successful.

They will have no aversion to switching their colours from red to blue, IMO.
 
I don't believe we do.

We have a massive 'fanbase', if you count the millions of 'consumers' who basically latch onto the teams who are most successful.

They will have no aversion to switching their colours from red to blue, IMO.

You think too low of our fans. Sure there's millions of people who will happily switch to whatever flavour of the month it is, but as far as proper fans who will always support the club go, we're in one of the best positions in the world imo.
 
And as for all the "Oh NOES we are soooo fecked if we sell Rooney" merchants, absolute bollocks. We have lost better more important players in the past and carried on and we will again. Robson, Keane, Cantona, Becks, Ronaldo, we are bigger than one immature scouser and will simply move on, sometime in the next season or two find the next big thing and carry on, whilst Wayne can cry into his £200 packet of fags that he never should have left.
 
You think too low of our fans. Sure there's millions of people who will happily switch to whatever flavour of the month it is, but as far as proper fans who will always support the club go, we're in one of the best positions in the world imo.

The big money we generate in the far East etc won't be there much longer if United go on the slide.

I'm just being a realist.
 
You're a spastic with the memory-capacity of an fecking idiot.

feck you dipshit, he DID NOT nearly win us the title single handed, thats just complete and utter bollocks, without Valencia, he would not have scored anywhere near that amount of goals, without shcoles and giggs playing out of their skins yet again we would have been no where near, any one who thinks otherewise is insane.
 
The big money we generate in the far East etc won't be there much longer if United go on the slide.

I'm just being a realist.

Debatable how much money we get from there on a regular basis anyway, as far as I knew they all wear counterfeits anyway.
 
Jesus Sparkyhughes... its figurative, 'football speak' if you will... of course Rooney can't literally win the league singlehandedly as it would be one man v 11, across 38 games... I'd hazard a guess at he wouldn't do very well.

Now be alot less pedantic, only a fool would say up till that game v Munich, Rooney was in amazing form and the driving force behind our title campaign up till that point.

That said, I would personally not mind investing in several areas of the team if the oppurtunity arose... rather than the Pato-fest thats going on in Poppers thread :P
 
Debatable how much money we get from there on a regular basis anyway, as far as I knew they all wear counterfeits anyway.

We wouldn't push the energy sapping pre season tours if they weren't important areas geographically.

Sorry, but a team whose fortunes are ailing on the pitch will suffer financially.

This is something the Glazers will be accounting for (I hope) - if they continue to do things on the cheap, in a squad investment sense, the club as a business proposition becomes less and less attractive.

You can argue that the sale of Rooney would leave us with no big-ticket players left in the squad (from a marketing POV)...
 
If Rooney was to leave soon and we were to get £60-70 million (not to mention a reduced wage bill) and in return we could guarantee that we could sign the likes of Bale, Modric/Sneijder/creative mid in general, and Rodwell/P.Jones/defensive mid in general... would it be prudent to do so and leave behind a well balanced team for the future with a long shelf life? Dare we say it... would we actually be a stronger team for it?

We got £80m with Ronaldo and have done almost nothing with it, god knows where it went. Who's to say we'd spend the £70m from Rooney either?
 
Jesus Sparkyhughes... its figurative, 'football speak' if you will... of course Rooney can't literally win the league singlehandedly as it would be one man v 11, across 38 games... I'd hazard a guess at he wouldn't do very well.

Now be alot less pedantic, only a fool would say up till that game v Munich, Rooney was in amazing form and the driving force behind our title campaign up till that point.

That said, I would personally not mind investing in several areas of the team if the oppurtunity arose... rather than the Pato-fest thats going on in Poppers thread :P

THAT point Ill conceed, yes he was amazing and the driving force behind our bid, but to listen to some, if we sell him its like we are going to go into freefall and end up like leeds, I hate any mention of players doing stuff singlehanded, bar the odd occasion, like Gerrard in the CL final which really was single handed :lol::lol: Football is a team game and without the contributions of others Wayne would not have had such an outstanding season last year, thats all Im trying to say.
 
Everyone remembers the circus that followed when they got Tevez, imagine what would happen if they bagged Rooney as well. The bitters and the media would go absolutely hysterical.

Rightly so. They would have the better side and would have stolen the jewel in our crown.

Even for the sake of hypothetically clearing our debt, keeping our dignity is alot more valuable.

If Glazers were ever to get such an offer, you can believe they will grab it with both hands and bite the Sheiks hand off.
 
We wouldn't push the energy sapping pre season tours if they weren't important areas geographically.

Sorry, but a team whose fortunes are ailing on the pitch will suffer financially.

This is something the Glazers will be accounting for (I hope) - if they continue to do things on the cheap, in a squad investment sense, the club as a business proposition becomes less and less attractive.

You can argue that the sale of Rooney would leave us with no big-ticket players left in the squad (from a marketing POV)...

To be fair, it's all a moot point anyway, I'd be surprised if we got £50m for him. The money would be made available for spending for your point about having no star players left, there would be no choice but to sign a couple big names to replace him.
 
To be fair, it's all a moot point anyway, I'd be surprised if we got £50m for him. The money would be made available for spending for your point about having no star players left, there would be no choice but to sign a couple big names to replace him.

I don't really care for "star players" tbh, but I was talking in the sense of us not being a big draw for the fairweather fans out there...

£50m probably wouldn't get us what we need...
 
We got £80m with Ronaldo and have done almost nothing with it, god knows where it went. Who's to say we'd spend the £70m from Rooney either?

This I concede as a valid point, however the only positive we can take is that this would an unforeseen circumstance.. hence it wouldn't be a planned sale and thus the money would be a bonus and therefore more likely to be seen as transfer kitty money than the Ronaldo sale.. if of course we were to sell him in the first place.
 
I don't really care for "star players" tbh, but I was talking in the sense of us not being a big draw for the fairweather fans out there...

£50m probably wouldn't get us what we need...

Would we even get £50m? Ronaldo was £80m, a superior player in far superior form, with a far longer contract left on him.

Christ, if we were to sell Rooney right now we'd be lucky to get more than £30-£35m. It's a scary thought.
 
This I concede as a valid point, however the only positive we can take is that this would an unforeseen circumstance.. hence it wouldn't be a planned sale and thus the money would be a bonus and therefore more likely to be seen as transfer kitty money than the Ronaldo sale.. if of course we were to sell him in the first place.

I think that's being very, very optimistic. Since Ronaldos departure there's been nothing to suggest that we're allowed spend the money we got from him, just because Rooney's wouldn't be planned for as long doesn't mean the Glazers wouldn't still gobble it up.
 
The moment Rooney is gone, we be really fecked , there is no blessing in disguise, I can't believe we are now on the verge of losing our best player.....
 
I'm sure we could overcome the loss of Rooney, but it wouldn't be a blessing in disguise. Especially when we're already set to lose some of our older players in the next year or two and questions remain over a few other players. We need some continuity.
 
I think that's being very, very optimistic. Since Ronaldos departure there's been nothing to suggest that we're allowed spend the money we got from him, just because Rooney's wouldn't be planned for as long doesn't mean the Glazers wouldn't still gobble it up.

True.. well one things for sure, this summer or possibly the next after this, we are going to have to invest very heavily to replace the likes of Giggs/Scholes/VDS.

Its a must and for that reason alone... I think the Rooney money if we was to sell him would have to be invested in players just to keep this team going as a viable contender for trophies. Worrying times ahead but possibly exciting times as well.. personally I'd rather be an optimist and trust Fergie. Surely he can't go on signing Dioufs and Bebe's.
 
True.. well one things for sure, this summer or possibly the next after this, we are going to have to invest very heavily to replace the likes of Giggs/Scholes/VDS.

Its a must and for that reason alone... I think the Rooney money if we was to sell him would have to be invested in players just to keep this team going as a viable contender for trophies. Worrying times ahead but possibly exciting times as well.. personally I'd rather be an optimist and trust Fergie. Surely he can't go on signing Dioufs and Bebe's.

Yeah, we do need to sign big next summer, but to be honest, we could've done with spending big in the Summer just gone too, and we didn't, which is a really big worry.

Basically, if Rooney goes (I doubt he will) then we're still not guaranteed SAF will be able to spend big and we could be stuck relying on our youth and begging Scholes, Giggs and VDS to sign extensions again. We'd be fecked.
 
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