Black Sheep Draft QF - Raees vs. Enigma

[antohan]

..

----------------------------Team Raees---------------------------------vs.---------------------------Team Enigma----------------------------------

RAEES' TACTICAL OUTLINE

• 4-2-3-1
• Balanced Style of Play (Solid defensively, with great work rate/athleticism all over the pitch but bags of flair/quality going forward)

KEY BATTLES

1. Djalma v Ronaldinho

Djalma is the the best defensive full back of all time and well equipped to deal with any winger in history as he has exceptional reading of the game, brilliant speed and flawless in the tackle.

2. Bossis v Best

Spoiler: Bossis at his best 'Le Grand Max'

Bosses was tall, elegant, strong and quick.. and one of the most complete full backs/Sweepers of all time, equally gifted going forwards and back, he will be formidable opposition for Best.

3. Midfield Battle

Lack of pure CDM to track Di Stefano. Di Stefano with his defensive nous and superior work-rate can also put pressure on the likes of Xavi/Tigana higher up the pitch, whereas I don't think Sir Bobby is going to put the press on Gerson who can control the game.

4. Neutralising Eusebio (Importance of Nasazzi)

No threat in behind. Eusebio likes to come away from the CB's and run at the defence but Nasazzi is quick and referred to as having outstanding positional ability. He will look to keep Eusebio with back to goal and prevent him from turning and running at the defence, and 'Marshal' him into releasing the ball to safer positions.

5. Can his defence handle an attack of my quality?

Vasovic and Godin is solid, but against Van Basten and Di Stefano, it doesn't cut it in my opinion. They will get negligent support from full backs who will have their work cut out with Nedved and Jairzinho.


ENIGMA'S TACTICAL OUTLINE

Formation: 4-3-3 (false 9)
Style: direct approach, use the movement of Sir Bobby and Eusebio up front, counter at every opportunity when getting the ball back.

Some player roles:
Eusebio - as a false 9 - dropping deeper making space for Best and Ronaldinho to come inside and Sir Bobby to charge the box, drag opposition CB's out of position, while of course scoring goals himself.
Godin - rugged stopper
Vasovic - complete defender / sweeper. Will step up if needed anticipating through balls and like he did for Ajax.
Sir Bobby Charlton - making runs in the box scoring goals, participating in both phases giving steel to the midfield.
Tigana - great defensively and highly energetic midfielder - good match for Di Stefano.
Xavi - central position - playmaker, heartbeat of the team, control the tempo, look for openings get the ball to the attacking trio.

Key points:
- Excellent defensive line composed of two overlapping full backs (Reuter/Krol) with abundance of pace.
- Complimentary (Vasovic/Godin) pair
- Midfield full of energy(Tigana/Sir Bobby), playmaking ability (Xavi), eye for a goal (Charlton). Excellent passers and capable of providing defensive cover and also participating in the build up.
- One of the best finishers in the game (Eusebio), flanked by trickery and pace from one of the best winger/wide forwards in the game (Ronaldinho/Best).

Why we should win:
- one of the best attack in the draft - full of trickery, pace and complimented by the excellent goal output from midfield by Sir Bobby Charlton.
- full of energy midfield consisting of some of the very best in their roles - full of energy and pace that could counter well Raees strengths.
- Solid defensive line with complimentary pairings and full backs that have the pace and defensive game to counter Raees wingers.

PLAYER PROFILES

 

[antohan]

Good luck @Raees and @Enigma_87

 

[Raees]

Cheers for setting it up Anto. Best of luck @Enigma_87 .. up against one of the big favourites here!

 

[Enigma_87]

Cheers @antohan for setting it up. Good luck @Raees you've crafted an excellent side yourself!

Edit: voted for myself to see the score you can do the same.

 

[harms]

What a match-up! Really hard to separate those teams

 

[Enigma_87]

To kick it off some quotes on Sir Bobby who I pick for the first time and to pay some tribute for him:

“I played with him briefly toward the end of his United career, and he was just gobsmacking to witness. He was 35 when I got to Old Trafford, and he was as fit and enthusiastic as a 25-year-old. He’d done so much, but his desire never faded – his work-rate kept him right at the top. He was still trying to improve.”
– Lou Macari

“Bobby Charlton was known for his creativity. He was on the move for 90 minutes, and had the lungs of a horse.”
– Franz Beckenbauer

“Charlton, as we all know, covered the whole pitch. Played on the left, on the right, in the middle. He never stopped running and he had a very powerful 
shot and scored a lot of great goals. 
I have many more good than bad memories from my career, but some 
of the bad memories come from when 
I crossed paths with Bobby Charlton. 
It was Bobby Charlton who spoiled 
my day in the World Cup semi-final of 1966 and later the European Cup final 
of ’68, but I’ve forgiven him and we 
are still good friends now. He’s a real English gentleman.”
– Eusebio

“He had a grace, and a change of pace, and a strike of lightning. Both change of pace, and from his boots; the power in his shooting was immense.”
– Terry Venables

“He was a beautiful player, and a lovely striker of the ball; 30 yarders into the roof of the net – I couldn’t even reach the goal from 18 yards!”
– Denis Law

“What a pleasure to play alongside. I don’t think I’ve even seen anybody who could beat players as easily as him, myself included. I often used my pace, but Bobby made it look effortless. And once he got within 30 yards of goal, he was lethal with either foot. Because he played a lot on the left, many people assume he was a natural left-footer, but I don’t think he was. He was just so good with both feet.”
– George Best

“He was a naturally gifted player, and was two-footed as well, one of the most two-footed players you’ve ever seen. He could go either side, shoot with either foot.”
“To score that many goals from midfield is just a remarkable achievement. He was a great player, capable of a brilliant shot but also a brilliant player to have in the team. He was a clever player, won so much and will go down as one of the all time greats in world football.”
– Sir Geoff Hurst

Spoiler: Sir Bobby Charlton Goals and Skills compilation

Spoiler: Sir Bobby Charlton England's greatest player

 

[Ecstatic]

What a match-up! Really hard to separate those teams

Yeah! The teams could have been even more impressive because each manager had one sheep in the reinforcement session.

Raees hired Di Stefano to replace Bergkamp.
Enigma chose Charlton to replace Vidal.

 

[Raees]

@Enigma_87 feel free to add some of my own quotes on Sir Bobby . Glad you picked him as he deserves to be in the latter stages of this tournament.

 

[Enigma_87]

@Enigma_87 feel free to add some of my own quotes on Sir Bobby . Glad you picked him as he deserves to be in the latter stages of this tournament.

Cheers mate. To be honest this IMO is the perfect set up for him. I wanted to try out a mobile system without a designated target man for this draft. Charlton should really star in this formation as he has a highly mobile forwards to make space for his runs from deep in Eusebio, Best and Ronaldinho, and also allow Eusebio to run through the lines and play his natural game.

I absolutely love the man and he should get some love in this all time drafts as I don't think he featured late in them, but thoroughly deserves to do so.

He and Di Stefano are probably very close to game style - all action players with great technique and overall game.

 

[Enigma_87]

Yeah! The teams could have been even more impressive because each manager had one sheep in the reinforcement session.

Raees hired Di Stefano to replace Bergkamp.
Enigma chose Charlton to replace Vidal.

Yeah, wanted to try out a three man back line with Vasovic in libero role(transitioning to anchor) and Godin/Figueroa stoppers. Sir Bobby was a great pick for me tho, as I was looking for that synergy up front since the beginning of the draft.

 

[Ecstatic]

Good to have some quotes about the legendary Sir Bobby.

The other big man is ADS: some quotes below

https://arjyomitra94.wordpress.com/2015/06/29/quotes-on-alfredo-di-stefano/

 

[Raees]

Just to give a slight feel for my team for those who haven't seen some of my guys play.. some all-match touch comps (in spoilers). If you haven't already, please watch the Bossis video in the OP as he is lesser-known but what a full-back!

DJALMA SANTOS

Spoiler: Djalma World Cup 1958 v Sweden

DI STEFANO

Spoiler: Di Stefano v Nice - European Cup 1959

JAIRZINHO

Spoiler: Terrorizing full backs in 1970

VAN BASTEN

Spoiler: Van Basten v Lokomotiv

 

[Ecstatic]

Yeah, wanted to try out a three man back line with Vasovic in libero role(transitioning to anchor) and Godin/Figueroa stoppers. Sir Bobby was a great pick for me tho, as I was looking for that synergy up front since the beginning of the draft.

I think you ave chosen the best option with 4 defenders because a 3-4-3 would have urged you to sacrifice Xavi to support Ronaldinho-Eusebio-Best.

 

[Enigma_87]

I think you ave chosen the best option with 4 defenders because a 3-4-3 would have urged you to sacrifice Xavi to support Ronaldinho-Eusebio-Best.

Nah. High defensive line to squeeze the pitch and dominate the midfield, but either way that's gone and had to switch to direct approach, fast tempo and utilizing the speed up front.

One thing to mention is that I have complimentary pairings and combos all over the pitch:

- Vasovic and Krol have great understanding with each other and are defensive leaders which also elevates the partnership to another level.
- Xavi/Ronaldinho also. If there's one to put the ball into Ronnie's foot that's Xavi.
- Charlton/Best - needless to mention are at the base of some of the best goals United ever scored.

 

[antohan]

Yeah, wanted to try out a three man back line with Vasovic in libero role(transitioning to anchor) and Godin/Figueroa stoppers. Sir Bobby was a great pick for me tho, as I was looking for that synergy up front since the beginning of the draft.

Makes no sense to me. Either it's three and you are dropping Krol (mental) or it's five and I have to wonder what bonus you really get from unleashing the wingbacks when you have two great wide forwards. Seems to me your spine and midfield would suffer more than you would gain from this. Bobby looks great there, remove him for an additional defender and I would be voting Raees without much further thought.

 

[Ecstatic]

I also think a '3-5-2' doesn't make sense when we have great wingers.

A 3-4-3 requires many adjustments.

 

[Enigma_87]

Makes no sense to me. Either it's three and you are dropping Krol (mental) or it's five and I have to wonder what bonus you really get from unleashing the wingbacks when you have two great wide forwards. Seems to me your spine and midfield would suffer more than you would gain from this. Bobby looks great there, remove him for an additional defender and I would be voting Raees without much further thought.

It's 5. The idea was to get clear advantage on the wings as half of the teams left needed fullbacks, while pretty much every team had a great core centrally and I assumed everyone would block each other going for FB's.

After all was set and done in the reinforcement round - I agree that wouldn't work the way I planned and Sir Bobby was a great pick for me at the end, despite only one reinforcement.

 

[Enigma_87]

@Raees can you shed some light on Nasazzi and especially against Eusebio as it is a key battle up front? I saw you mentioned that he's quick, but from what I know of him he's very physical defender with great reading of the game and positional sense, but agility and pace/quickness is not one of his qualities.

Same goes for H-G Schwarzenbeck and your holding midfielders in Gerson and Deschamps. The speed, agility and trickery that Sir Bobby and Eusebio bring to the table, constantly moving around and running at your center backs is where we can gain advantage in this game.

 

[antohan]

@Raees can you shed some light on Nasazzi and especially against Eusebio as it is a key battle up front? I saw you mentioned that he's quick, but from what I know of him he's very physical defender with great reading of the game and positional sense, but agility and pace/quickness is not one of his qualities.

Same goes for H-G Schwarzenbeck and your holding midfielders in Gerson and Deschamps. The speed, agility and trickery that Sir Bobby and Eusebio bring to the table, constantly moving around and running at your center backs is where we can gain advantage in this game.

I wouldn't have that as a key attribute but he wasn't a lumbering beast either. Deceptively quick for someone his size. Not too different from Godín I'd say although in relative terms (back then) he was comparatively quicker.

If Eusebio turns to run onto a ball over the top he would sure beat him as far as pace is concerned. Same would hold for any of the four CBs though, and others like Figueroa. I'd still rather Nasazzi or Figueroa than Iván Córdoba.

It's simply manic to play a high line against Eusebio, but I don't think that's what he is doing here.

 

[Enigma_87]

I wouldn't have that as a key attribute but he wasn't a lumbering beast either. Deceptively quick for someone his size. Not too different from Godín I'd say although in relative terms (back then) he was comparatively quicker.

If Eusebio turns to run onto a ball over the top he would sure beat him as far as pace is concerned. Same would hold for any of the four CBs though, and others like Figueroa. I'd still rather Nasazzi or Figueroa than Iván Córdoba.

It's simply manic to play a high line against Eusebio, but I don't think that's what he is doing here.

Cheers. Yeah the defensive line is a bit high from the formation picture and keeping with him suggest he'd follow him when dropping deep, hence the quick part from the write up. He's probably not playing a high line, but I'll leave that to Raees to explain.

 

[Raees]

@Raees can you shed some light on Nasazzi and especially against Eusebio as it is a key battle up front? I saw you mentioned that he's quick, but from what I know of him he's very physical defender with great reading of the game and positional sense, but agility and pace/quickness is not one of his qualities.

Same goes for H-G Schwarzenbeck and your holding midfielders in Gerson and Deschamps. The speed, agility and trickery that Sir Bobby and Eusebio bring to the table, constantly moving around and running at your center backs is where we can gain advantage in this game.

He is referred to as a quick, strong uncompromising defender, and excellent positionally, which indicates his reading of the game is top notch.. therefore he is more likely to man-mark a Eusebio out of the game, rather than trying to put Schwarzenbeck on him. Being the magnificent leader he is and the almost flawless defensive record he has, it makes sense that he is the one who tries to go toe to toe with the opposition's biggest threat.

Sir Bobby has great ability to eat up grass but Deschamps is a duracell bunny, and the perfect disciplined DM with nippyness to keep tracking Charlton's runs. Not saying it is a battle he will be on top off, but there are few better water carriers in the draft and Deschamps is a really good tactical fit to try and mitigate the damage Sir Bobby can pose.

Gerson offers more defensively than Xavi, and is astute enough tactically to ensure he is more of a aid than a hindrance in helping to thwart the forward thrust of Sir Bobby's runs.

Defensively not a high line - in my Tactical Outline, I said balanced style of play. It would be a normal defensive line.

 

[harms]

Gerson offers more defensively than Xavi

It's debatable, to say the least

 

[Gio]

Really good game this. Kudos to Raees for recovering to such a position of strength after such a shaky start.

Not sure about that comment about Gerson offering more than Xavi defensively. Xavi's work rate, engine and pressing ability is a cut above pretty much all of the great ball-playing midfielders and those elements can be just as if not more than important than the ability to crunch into tackles and throw your weight around. That said, Gerson is traditionally a little under-rated off the ball, certainly based on the effective ball-winning he did frequently at Mexico '70.

My question of Enigma here concerns Tigana's role and how he sees that panning out.

 

[Raees]

It's debatable, to say the least

I think Xavi indisputably has the better engine as @Gio points out and no one would call him a liability defensively (which I haven't) but against a Di Stefano .. I don't think Xavi brings anything to the table defensively. He wasn't renowned for his tackling ability, if you watch a game of Xavi's highlights you'd be hard pressed to find him winning the ball whereas with Gerson, it is pretty apparent he's pretty useful at winning the ball and likes to do so.

 

[Enigma_87]

Really good game this. Kudos to Raees for recovering to such a position of strength after such a shaky start.

Not sure about that comment about Gerson offering more than Xavi defensively. Xavi's work rate, engine and pressing ability is a cut above pretty much all of the great ball-playing midfielders and those elements can be just as if not more than important than the ability to crunch into tackles and throw your weight around. That said, Gerson is traditionally a little under-rated off the ball, certainly based on the effective ball-winning he did frequently at Mexico '70.

My question of Enigma here concerns Tigana's role and how he sees that panning out.

Agree with this and disagree that Gerson offers more than Xavi defensively. It's the other way around. He's not a passenger certainly but Xavi is notch above as you said compared to other ball-playing midfielders.

Tigana's role is mainly defensive of course due to that being the best aspect of his game - winning the ball back, but he will also combine with Xavi and move vertically when we're with the ball. The idea is to use Tigana and Xavi's defensive game, reading of the game and positional sense to counter a great #10 which undoubtedly is Di Stefano.

I can put a designated DM on a marking job for Di Stefano, but it would be debatable at best whether they will neutralize each other (unless that DM is Beckenbauer). Tigana will use his natural game here like he did against Italy for example.



When we're on the ball he'll move vertically and Vasovic will push up to cover the space and with his exceptional reading of the game prevent us being hit on a counter.

 

[Gandhi]

Not a word on keepers from both.
I regard Maier very highly but can't compare as I have a little idea about Fillol. Can you please throw a bit of light on the men between sticks?

 

[Enigma_87]

Not a word on keepers from both.
I regard Maier very highly but can't compare as I have a little idea about Fillol. Can you please throw a bit of light on the men between sticks?

Sure, mate.

GK: UBALDO FILLOL - “The Duck” Ubaldo Fillol is the greatest South American goalkeeper of all-time. He was voted in the top five South American footballers of the year 8 times. His best highlight is the performance in world cup 1978 where he made many brilliant saves especially in the final match when Argentina won their first world cup. Fillol was a keeper with some of the fastest reflexes to ever play the game in addition to his excellent shot-blocking and positional play. Apart for being famous for his penalty saves(holds the record for most penalty saves in Argentina) his reading of the game is pretty impressive and he's excellent in 1 on 1 situation, always knowing when to leave his line.
A compilation of his saves, worth seeing:


A WC winner in 1978 with Argentina playing a key role with his saves. The only keeper to be awarded Silver Ball as a player of the year in South America(Fillol achieved that 3 times). Footballer of the year in Argentina in 1977 - ahead of the likes of Maradona, Kempes, Passarella, etc.
He's widely regarded as the best South American keeper of all time.

 

[Raees]

SEPP MAIER (3 Time German footballer of the year - in an era where he has to compete with Gerd Muller/Beckenbauer)

The year was 1952 when an 8 year old Josef Dieter Maier joined TSV Haar, near Munich, dreaming of becoming an attacker. But as fate would have it, the coaches and players at TSV were of a different opinion. “You’re the laziest, you’re the fattest – you play in goal.” Well, the rest, as they say, is history.

With the ball in his hands instead of at his feet, Maier soon settled into his new position and like all goalkeeping greats, took a liking for clean-sheets. His burgeoning talent was more than obvious and at a tender age of 15, he was called into the youth team of Bayern Munich. Thus began a relationship that would last throughout his footballing career. Having signed a professional contract at the age of 18, Maier worked his way into the Bayern first team, and between 1966 and 1979, played in 442 consecutive Bundesliga matches; a record that still stands in Germany. In his 17 years of professional football at Bayern, he helped Bayern win 4 Bundesliga titles, 4 German Cups and 5 continental and intercontinental trophies. So it wasn’t really a surprise when he found a place on Bayern’s finest XI of the century, along with legends like Muller and Beckenbauer, as voted by club fans.


Gerd Muller, ‘Sepp’ Maier and Franz Beckenbauer

Maier’s success wasn’t restricted to club level though. He tasted glory with the German national squad in the form of UEFA European Championship in 1972 and FIFA World Cup in 1974. He amassed 95 caps for Die Mannschaft and was chosen as the nation’s best goalkeeper of the century. The 3 German Footballer of the Year awards are testament to the legendary status of the man nicknamed Die Katze von Anzing (the cat from Anzing); a nickname well deserved for his cat-like reflexes.

For a man who idolized German comedian Karl Valentin, it wasn’t much of a surprise that Maier had a rich sense of humour. None can forget his oft quoted line – “A goalkeeper needs to exude a sense of calm – and make sure he doesn’t fall asleep!”

But the footballing world will perhaps always remember his comic timing for chasing a duck which had waddled inadvertently onto the pitch. Mind you, it wasn’t during stoppage in play. It was right in between a Bayern vs Bochum encounter and Maier claimed he was bored because Bochum had not managed a single attack on his goal!


Maier with the 1974 FIFA World Cup at Munich

In July 1979, his glittering career was brought to an abrupt halt because of a car accident in which he tore his diaphragm and also suffered concussion, a broken arm and fractured ribs. He had once famously said: “I always used to say that I’d carry on playing for as long as Franz Beckenbauer and Gerd Muller can push me on to the pitch in a wheelchair.” Alas, that was not to be. But Bayern didn’t see the last of Maier. He returned as a goalkeeping coach and mentored a young shot-stopping talent snapped up from Karlsruhe – Oliver Kahn.

 

[harms]

I think Xavi indisputably has the better engine as @Gio points out and no one would call him a liability defensively (which I haven't) but against a Di Stefano .. I don't think Xavi brings anything to the table defensively. He wasn't renowned for his tackling ability, if you watch a game of Xavi's highlights you'd be hard pressed to find him winning the ball whereas with Gerson, it is pretty apparent he's pretty useful at winning the ball and likes to do so.

Actually I think a player with Xavi's qualities, who constantly relieves pressure of his midfield and, thanks to his unique spatial awareness, moves into spaces that a player of Di Stefano's style (well, Di Stefano - it's not like there were others like him) will naturally occupy is even better than a usual hard-tackling ball-winning midfielder, whom Di Stefano would've simply outsmarted by his runs. My only criticism here is that I would've preferred a genuine holding midfielder instead of Tigana

 

[Raees]

@Enigma_87 how do you feel about the fact that all your front 4 are essentially quite 'ball-hoggy' and I mean that in the most positive way, in that they're all phenomenal ball carriers, but will they get in each others way on that front. I mean Ronnie, SBC are excellent passers but Eusebio is coming deep most of the time so that particular aspect of your attack won't be used to maximum potential.

I think my attack is more complementary and ticks a variety of boxes. Van Basten can get the most out of Jairzinho's ability to create width, he can get on the end of Di Stefano's through balls/Gerson's long passes and bring everyone into play too.

 

[Raees]

Actually I think a player with Xavi's qualities, who constantly relieves pressure of his midfield and, thanks to his unique spatial awareness, moves into spaces that a player of Di Stefano's style (well, Di Stefano - it's not like there were others like him) will naturally occupy is even better than a usual hard-tackling ball-winning midfielder, whom Di Stefano would've simply outsmarted by his runs. My only criticism here is that I would've preferred a genuine holding midfielder instead of Tigana

Fair enough, I think with a top holding mid (ala Rijkaard), totally get your point on Xavi. Hence why he is not a defensive liability against any opposition nor would I argue that point.. just think with that pair, and against Di Stefano.. a player of that class, you need someone in that midfield to do some heavy lifting and mitigate his effect otherwise he will run riot.

No offence to Sir Bobby, but even he would admit Don Alfredo is different gravy and in his eyes possibly the best of all time. You can't let a guy like that just do what he wants, you have to try and make things hard for him and I don't think his midfield does that.

 

[Enigma_87]

@Enigma_87 how do you feel about the fact that all your front 4 are essentially quite 'ball-hoggy' and I mean that in the most positive way, in that they're all phenomenal ball carriers, but will they get in each others way on that front. I mean Ronnie, SBC are excellent passers but Eusebio is coming deep most of the time so that particular aspect of your attack won't be used to maximum potential.

I think my attack is more complementary and ticks a variety of boxes. Van Basten can get the most out of Jairzinho's ability to create width, he can get on the end of Di Stefano's through balls/Gerson's long passes and bring everyone into play too.

I think the attacking four complement really well. IMO one of the best I've build as I like it a lot. Ronaldinho brings the passing skills, creativity, unpredictability and the oomph and joga bonito in the attacking third. He can set Best/Eusebio free and also look for options like Sir Bobby coming from deep. Eusebio will look for holes in the defence and his movement is one of the best for a forward in the game. He's not the best dribbler(compared to Best and Ronaldinho for example) and much more direct compared to say Dinho. Best is in his natural role and with passers like Sir Bobby and Xavi he dovetails nicely. Sir Bobby will be pretty much all throughout presence on the pitch in a more attacking box to box role, which is naturally his best game.

I have two players who can pass excellently in Charlton and Xavi(and also release the ball quickly), a magician on the left wing in Ronaldinho, whose game is unparalleled in terms of style and unpredictability, a great dribbler like Best and a dynamic, pacy forward like Eusebio with great shot technique, movement and finishing ability, complimented with Sir Bobby's movement and charging the box.

There's also the Xavi/Ronaldinho and Charlton/Best combos that are pretty much proven while, Eusebio I don't think resembles any of the rest as he's unique.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

It's debatable, to say the least

Expanding a bit, I still see Deschamps/Gerson defensively more sound than Tigana/Xavi.

 

[Enigma_87]

Fair enough, I think with a top holding mid (ala Rijkaard), totally get your point on Xavi. Hence why he is not a defensive liability against any opposition nor would I argue that point.. just think with that pair, and against Di Stefano.. a player of that class, you need someone in that midfield to do some heavy lifting and mitigate his effect otherwise he will run riot.

No offence to Sir Bobby, but even he would admit Don Alfredo is different gravy and in his eyes possibly the best of all time. You can't let a guy like that just do what he wants, you have to try and make things hard for him and I don't think his midfield does that.

In his defensive game I'd say Tigana is just a notch below Rijkaard. He was exceptional defensively. Sir Bobby is right up there with the best in terms of stature. He's the linchpin of a WC winning team in a world cup stuffed with some of the very best in the game and pretty much cancelling each other out with probably one of the best defensive players in Beckenbauer.

I'd say that with his energy, sliding and tackling ability(Tigana) and Xavi's excellent reading of the game and positional sense, coupled with the steel Sir Bobby brings we don't lack anything defensively.

Deschamps is also a top DM but IMO Tigana, Xavi and Sir Bobby in the defensive phase are better equipped at dealing with Di Stefano.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I see Raees team as spot on. Awesome defence. Great midfield/spine and stellar attackers.
Both in Back 4 and in midfield, I see Enigma trailing Raees slightly in defensive aspects. I still can't make up my mind on his front 3. Awesome players, but as I did say in earlier thread, I see the balance as off a bit. The video's I've seen of Eusebio has very little on his ability on bringing others into play....esp with you have the great Bestie cutting in from flanks. His strengths likes in strength and speed, quick dribble past defenders and to score. He's is quite well rounded and will definitely do a good F9 role if needed...but that is not playing him to his strengths.
Raees shades this for me.

 

[Enigma_87]

Expanding a bit, I still see Deschamps/Gerson defensively more sound than Tigana/Xavi.

I'd be happy if you can elaborate a bit more on this.

In the match highlight of Tigana against Italy I've counted around dozen tackles/interceptions Tigana made in a single game. I don't think Deschamps is better defensively than Tigana to be perfectly honest, while for many Xavi (for me too) is cut above Gerson in that sense. Vasovic in his natural game could also intercept/move into the space when needed.

IMO our set up is more appropriate at countering Raees strengths centrally, as Di Stefano is anything but classic #10 and dynamic, fast players like Tigana coupled with Xavi's positional sense and movement are much better fit to counter him, rather than Deschamps to Sir Bobby.

 

[Enigma_87]

Actually I think a player with Xavi's qualities, who constantly relieves pressure of his midfield and, thanks to his unique spatial awareness, moves into spaces that a player of Di Stefano's style (well, Di Stefano - it's not like there were others like him) will naturally occupy is even better than a usual hard-tackling ball-winning midfielder, whom Di Stefano would've simply outsmarted by his runs. My only criticism here is that I would've preferred a genuine holding midfielder instead of Tigana

I'd probably agree with you if I faced off a more classic #10 in terms of say Zico, while against players like Di Stefano, Sir Bobby, Cruyff I'd preffer defensive players in Tigana's mold that can follow him around hassle and harass him, while Xavi covers the space.Di Stefano won't sit in front of the midfield but rather move around a lot. That's his game, he covers an awful lot of ground. Same can be said about tireless Tigana here. Could have Makelele or similar man marking him as I've said, but the quality difference won't work in my favor either way.

I also didn't want a traditional holding player with Vasovic there, as he also can push up and intercept some of the balls.

 

[Enigma_87]

I see Raees team as spot on. Awesome defence. Great midfield/spine and stellar attackers.
Both in Back 4 and in midfield, I see Enigma trailing Raees slightly in defensive aspects. I still can't make up my mind on his front 3. Awesome players, but as I did say in earlier thread, I see the balance as off a bit. The video's I've seen of Eusebio has very little on his ability on bringing others into play....esp with you have the great Bestie cutting in from flanks. His strengths likes in strength and speed, quick dribble past defenders and to score. He's is quite well rounded and will definitely do a good F9 role if needed...but that is not playing him to his strengths.
Raees shades this for me.

I think you are contradicting yourself a bit here. If he's well rounded surely that includes his link up game, which IMO is pretty good. What he brings is his movement(which is top notch btw), natural finishing ability(he's the best finisher in the side), pace and ability to stretch defences and pull CB's out of position.

With Sir Bobby charging the box you need exactly this type of player to free space for his forward runs.

I see Eusebio one of the most well rounded strikers of all time, he can play as a winger, SS, leading the line, etc. His game was not only based on drop back, get the ball, run at defenders and score like playing on older versions of FIFA. He's much more than that. You don't score 700 goals in your career if you aren't as well rounded as I've mentioned.

I'll be off for some time and address questions later on.

 

[mazhar13]

I swear, Xavi's defensive ability is really starting to get overrated here.

Whenever Xavi played, he was utilised as the main playmaker of the side. His main contributions were all on the ball. Off of it, he only contributed to his team's quick pressing game. Otherwise, he was providing defensive support, but not to the level that many on the Caf raise him to.

Whenever Guardiola wanted more defensive assurance in his midfield, he would bring on Seydou Keita for one of Xavi or Iniesta because both of them didn't provide the defensive presence that he had. In Spain, del Bosque always had Xabi Alonso and Busquets play together in order to offer Xavi a more free role. Luis Aragones did that by having Marcos Senna play an anchor man role whilst introducing the high-pressing, possession-oriented system that made Spain so formidable.

Xavi was great in Spain and Barcelona's quick pressing approach, but that had as much to do with the system as it did with Xavi himself. Outside of that system, Xavi didn't offer that much defensively.

Spoiler: From the book FC Barcelona - A Tactical Analysis: Defending

That's exactly how I remembered Barcelona and Spain during their period of domination. I also remember when Tata Martino came in, Xavi was given more defensive responsibility, and he struggled to provide the required defensive contribution.

Sorry, but in a match like this where di Stefano and Nedved are going to be involved in the middle areas, Tigana's going to be overwhelmed with defensive work. Xavi won't be able to provide enough support for him here. Previously, when he had Vidal and Tigana to support him, that was even better. Charlton is hardworking enough to contribute defensively, but I don't see him matching Vidal's defensive output in order to offer Xavi enough support (Charlton had Stiles & Crerand with him for Man. Utd. whilst, in England's 1966 run, he had Stiles + 2 extremely hardworking players in Ball and Peters).

On the other hand, whilst Gerson is similar to Xavi in that he was a playmaker first and foremost, he offered more than Xavi did with his better overall defensive ability, which was the reason he worked so well with another #10 in Clodoaldo in that role.

The only way Enigma has a chance to win this is if they are able to sustain possession and take control of the match, but I don't see that happening particularly with the midfield that Raees has.

 

[harms]

On the other hand, whilst Gerson is similar to Xavi in that he was a playmaker first and foremost, he offered more than Xavi did with his better overall defensive ability, which was the reason he worked so well with another #10 in Clodoaldo in that role.

I know that Brazil was often called the team of five tens, but to name Clodoaldo as one as well?