Television Black Mirror | Season 6 out June 15th

Each to our own Mockney, I loved Shutter Island and still do. Also I didn't say the twist was poor, but much of the stuff leading upto it was.

I think you might of liked it, but others thought it was shit, not really sure where the issue is there. I don't think any of us are eager to criticize it, it just wasn't good at all. Had it been the first episode, I probably would have struggled to watch the next one through a fear it would be like that. Thankfully the first episode was the pig one, and that was much better.
 
Of course it's an "each to their own" thing. And this is a forum. Yadayadayada.

The "poor" stuff leading up to the twist in White Bear was crucial. I thought it was poor too, but as whole it fully redeemed itself. It all made sense once the twist was revealed, and it couldn't have been done the other way around otherwise it would've simply been a perfunctory and obvious exposition of events, which I think is what most people didn't like about this one.

Shutter Island was a B movie, but I still wouldn't call it crap because there was more than enough about it to raise it above what I would genuinely consider "crap"...Hence why I don't think it's fair to call this crap, or not good at all. Are you saying NOTHING was good about it? Nothing? Not the acting, not the production, not the set up? Nothing?
 
Mockney said:
Of course it's an "each to their own" thing. And this is a forum. Yadayadayada.

The "poor" stuff leading up to the twist in White Bear was crucial. I thought it was poor too, but as whole it fully redeemed itself. It all made sense once the twist was revealed, and it couldn't have been done the other way around otherwise it would've simply been a perfunctory and obvious exposition of events, which I think is what most people didn't like about this one.

Shutter Island was a B movie, but I still wouldn't call it crap because there was more than enough about it to raise it above what I would genuinely consider "crap"...Hence why I don't think it's fair to call this crap, or not good at all. Are you saying NOTHING was good about it? Nothing? Not the acting, not the production, not the set up? Nothing?
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Well, that and the acting of the girl and bloke who was with him (guy who got shot). I'm not sure I agree with that, I think the build-up could have been better, it certainly wasn't perfect for me. Better actors would have been the main thing. I didn't mind all the things that didn't make sense till the reveal, as you say that's pretty much the point, all those things like white bear, the flashbacks, people holding phones etc only makes sense afterwards.

Yeah I don't agree Shutter Island was a B movie at all but that's another discussion. I think you're being precious here. Obviously not every aspect of it was crap and the idea itself wasn't terrible (although waldo was in every way), but it's pretty obvious what I'm talking about here....lack of enjoyment, as in I found that shit to watch, and not at all entertaining. Mostly because the acting was poor, the characters were poor, the story wasn't at all realistic or believable and the whole thing dragged on. Do you really care if I didn't enjoy it in the slightest, or is that just impossible to believe?
 
I don't care, but I enjoy discussing it. I don't see the point in a thread of "I liked it" "I didn't like it" "I liked it"...I can do that on twitter. I'm sure you've criticised people's opinions in CE threads, General threads, or threads about really shit America studio sitcoms, without it bothering you that it doesn't convert people. It's all good.

I do genuinely think people are often too dismissively harsh on things though, which I believe to be a more recent, internet encouraged trend. Myself included without a doubt. I'm sure if Tinker Tailor or Fawlty Towers came out today there'd be plethora of people on the internet saying they were crap. I'm still glad things like this are being made, it may not be the greatest or most original idea (it was based on one they had in 2005) but it's still a relatively interesting one, and one that was pretty well made, and worthy of the effort IMO. Especially considering there are plenty of things that genuinely annoy me on television.

If I had made that, I'd have been relatively pleased with it. It may not be BAFTA worthy, but I think crap or shit is a massive exaggeration of your (or Mike's, or whoever's) disinterest in it. A bit like people saying "so and so player is completely shit" when clearly, by any normal standard, they're not.
 
I'm just not sure this needed to be a thing

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Yeah I agree, Waldo himself was poorly done. Though you could argue it wouldn't have had any bite if he wasn't lowest common denominator, and actually quite a sensible character. I can see where they were going with it, they just didn't pull him off (hey hey!)
 
Be Right Back: Thought it was really good. Almost completely derivative but brought up to date with the social media observations. Brilliantly directed, great atmosphere and pacing. It took the idea of artificial replacement for human loss, in a more eery direction than Speilberg did with A.I. As a result I found it genuinely unsettling. It had something of J.G. Ballard's "The Enormous Space" about it, particularly the idea of social and societal detachment.

White Bear Park: Found it too preachy and heavy handed personally. In terms of the narrative devices, I thought it borrowed heavily from more nuanced Twilight Zone episodes, particularly 'Deaths-Head Revisited' and 'Judgment Night'. I think maybe the response to mob hysteria and sadistic revenge fantasies, should be one of calmer reason. Emotionally distressing images of hounded young women, felt like stooping to deal with the issue on the irrational Daily Mail level.

Waldo: Again I thought it was a little too obvious in making some fairly standard points: that politics is a venal system but it does some good and that mocking it is fine but it's not an alternative. Interestingly the credits mention that it was based on a previous Nathan Barley idea. Maybe it could have worked better as a comedy.

I'm going to check out season 1.
 
Mockney said:
Are you saying NOTHING was good about it? Nothing? Not the acting, not the production, not the set up? Nothing?
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The acting was very poor from all involved I thought. The writing equally so - I was surprised Brooker wasn't able to come up with a decent anti-politics rant for the guy on the Question Time show... that's usually his thing. Also, the bear was just nothing. I'm sure that was the point, in a crazy-frog sort of way, but you need to give the audience at least one interesting character.

The set-up was perfunctory. The production was alright.
 
Mockney said:
I don't care, but I enjoy discussing it. I don't see the point in a thread of "I liked it" "I didn't like it" "I liked it"...I can do that on twitter. I'm sure you've criticised people's opinions in CE threads, General threads, or threads about really shit America studio sitcoms, without it bothering you that it doesn't convert people. It's all good.
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Fair point.

Mockney said:
If I had made that, I'd have been relatively pleased with it. It may not be BAFTA worthy, but I think crap or shit is a massive exaggeration of your (or Mike's, or whoever's) disinterest in it. A bit like people saying "so and so player is completely shit" when clearly, by any normal standard, they're not.
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All that's great, but I'm not judging it on the basis of how I'd feel if I made it, maybe I'd feel completely different about it if that were the case, but it's not. I don't find it a massive exaggeration, I reckon you're reading into people's tastes and language too much. I didn't like that episode and thought it was bad, maybe that's just all there is to it? If I had worked on it perhaps I'd appreciate just how hard it is and all that, but I didn't and none of that even crossed my mind. I honestly thought that it was. Yes we can start comparing it to things like Hollyoaks etc and work out our varying levels of crap, but it's as simple as me not enjoying it, which warrants "crap" in my book. I didn't think it was all that damning to be honest.
 
I'm not deciding your opinion for you. I'm just telling you I disagree with it. When I'm high ruler of the universe, everyone will be forced to have their opinions scrutinised. It's part of my 10-step plan for a better world. If you're uneasy with that, then you'll be part of the first cull.
 
Waldo was also quite a shit name. Considering it's the existing name of a character already.

The slightly "urban" voice was a bit odd too. Plus I've only just realised it was the cnut from the BT adverts.
 
Yeah both things were odd choices. Oh shit so he is, that's really weird.
 
Making the line "you're a failed comedian who's only claim to fame so far is a suchandsuch advert" all the more hilarious.
 
I actually liked the Waldo one best of the three in this series.

But series one was much better I thought.


The Entire History of You
15 Million Merits
The Waldo Moment
The National Anthem
White Bear
Be Right Back

So basically the exact opposite of what appears to be thew consensus on here.
 
The National Anthem
The Entire History Of You
15 Million Merits
White Bear
Be Right Back
The Waldo Moment

Thetop four were exceptions, BRB was alright and watchable but found Waldo boring and a bit too obvious. Hope hes got some more stories to tell, I think a twitter and facebook enforced world could be quite interesting. Everything you do is tweeted, only interacting with people on chat. Getting married with an online ceremony where the relationship status gets changed. Then some twist that hes actually one of the last people alive everyone else has died from obesity.

Could also do one where you play games and actually go into them and kill prisoners or something.
 
Adebesi said:
So basically the exact opposite of what appears to be thew consensus on here.
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One of the good things about it is it seems to engender wildly different "favorites" in people.

There doesn't seem to be any kind of consensus in general I'd say. Possibly on here, where there's a tend towards a certain kind of appreciation, but out in the big wide world I don't think I've met anyone with exactly the same feelings on every episode.

Which is a good thing. The whole Twilight Zone vibe encourages that. As opposed to serials, where there tends to be a broad consensus on what the best ones were. Usually the ones with the most drastic story developments.
 
Each episode is probably somebody somewhere's favourite. I mean, the guy who played Waldo is presumably quite fond of it.
 
Mockney said:
One of the good things about it is it seems to engender wildly different "favorites" in people.

There doesn't seem to be any kind of consensus in general I'd say. Possibly on here, where there's a tend towards a certain kind of appreciation, but out in the big wide world I don't think I've met anyone with exactly the same feelings on every episode.

Which is a good thing. The whole Twilight Zone vibe encourages that. As opposed to serials, where there tends to be a broad consensus on what the best ones were. Usually the ones with the most drastic story developments.
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It was interesting what you wrote about the White Bear. I was nodding in agreement as I read it, I agree with a lot of what you said. I think I found it hard to shake off the reaction to the first half. Basically hearing that woman crying and wimpering for 20 minutes started to grate on me, and even when the twist came I was still feeling a bit frazzled by it. But I wonder if I would enjoy it more on a second viewing.
 
Just watched the first series of this. God they're depressing :lol: Enjoyed them though.
 
I just watched the last episodes and Waldo was played by that unfunny twat from the BT ads. And that was the high point of the episode.
 
So I just caught up with these after having them on my Sky box for months. For some reason wasn't expecting much from Episodes 5 and 6, but they were marvellous, genuinely love all 6 episodes of the show so far. Think 1, 3 and 5 are the best though. But I've only seen them all once with the two I watched this past week being most prominent in my mind.
 
Mockney said:
I think I'd probably go..

The National Anthem
White Bear
Be Right Back
The Entire History of You
The Waldo Moment/15 Million Merits
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Just rewatched the whole run. I'd now change it to

National Anthem
White Bear
The Entire History of You
15 Million Merits
Be Right Back
Waldo Moment

There's something to like in all of them, but the first 3 are genius. The bottom 3 are all good, but I'd put a gap between them. Its interesting that in something written by Charlie Brooker & Jesse Armstrong, the least comic episodes are the ones I consider the real achievements.
 
Starts again on 16th December, first episode is with Don Draper.
 
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