Biggest Summer Reset Ever?

DomesticTadpole said:
I hope not as starters.
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Fred as a squad option but why wouldn't Bruno start? He's single handedly saved this club from being in a much worse position and scores and assists double figures every season.
 
Plant0x84 said:
It’s not going to happen. All these players will not be replaced. We don’t have endless buckets of cash and the Glazers aren’t about to get their wallets out. If the club let all these players leave we will be at least 50% youth teamers next season and will endure misery and mid-tableness for years to come. Be careful what you wish for…..
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There are quite a lot of players available for free in the summer. We should be on some of the better ones of those, provided they want to come. We are clearing a lot of the wage bill with those leaving so that covers the wages for these. Supplement that with a few paid for signings and promote the likes of garner, Hannibal etc. That leaves us in a much better position that we are in now.
 
Roboc7 said:
Being told something and acting on it are totally different, they also haven’t promised Rangnick will have any kind of decision making. The people with all that are the same ones who were fully behind Ole and clung on too long. Arnold is likely to be no different to Woodward.

Rangnick is only smart appointment if you listen to him and implement what he says, there’s no guarantee that will happen. Utd are obsessed by sponsorship and social media, I don’t believe this has suddenly become a football club again. It’s still a business first and foremost.
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Well I can't disagree that if we refuse to listen to peoples advice then we are in real trouble, but there is nothing yet to suggest that Arnold will be as stubborn as Woodward and a few things to suggest that he won't be. Appointing Rangnick in this position is one of those indicators.
 
Edy2 said:
There are quite a lot of players available for free in the summer. We should be on some of the better ones of those, provided they want to come. We are clearing a lot of the wage bill with those leaving so that covers the wages for these. Supplement that with a few paid for signings and promote the likes of garner, Hannibal etc. That leaves us in a much better position that we are in now.
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Respectfully disagree. Free signings generally mean huge signing on fees and obscene wages. Not something we should encourage. We want players who WANT to play for United not just looking for a pay day. There is a very real risk of weakening our squad massively this summer.
 
Watch them go. Good riddance.

Get a striker, DM, CB and attacking fullback. First two in particular must be impressive signings (performance-wise, feck "on-paper", we don't need established absolute superstars).

Fill in the blanks with academy.

We won't do much worse.
 
VidaRed said:
Players that should be sold after this season:-
1. Maguire
2. AWB
3. Shaw
4. Rashford
5. Greenwood

Players that need to be moved on or allowed to leave after this season:-
1. Lingard
2. Henderson
3. Cavani
4. Ronaldo
5. Pogba
6. Mata
7. Jones

No wonder were down the shitter, its not just a couple of players but half the fecking squad thats subpar. Anyone who claims ole left a good squad for the next manager needs a good bollocking!
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There’s no way Rashford, AWB, Maguire and Shaw depart in one summer. A new manager will be given a chance to get them back in form, which they’re capable of. We do need at least 5 signings though based on the number of likely departures.
 
Roboc7 said:
But other than Pogba the players who are leaving for free don’t play, Mata, Cavani, Lingard barely kick a ball. Martial and DVB aren’t even at the club.

A reset mean getting rid of the real problems, the players on the pitch week in week out. It’s looking at all your highly paid, expensive players, those with big social media followings and who you let advertise for your sponsors. That’s where all the focus needs to be not on the players just making up the numbers, can a new manager offload any of Rashford, Maguire , Shaw, DDG, Mct, Ronaldo if they want to.

Mata can stay of go and it won’t make of a blind bit of difference but whether to stick or twist with players like I mentioned will be what makes or breaks the next manager.
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Your point is a fair one, but I've never seen so much inevitable change to the squad in one window and if handled well we could bring in new first team players who take the places of others who should become squad players. E. G. DVB and Pogba out and a quality DM and CM in with McTominay and Fred then squad players.
 
RedIan said:
For me it’s on ole, he persisted for season after season with McFred as the heart of our team. At the start of the season we had on paper an embarrassment of attacking riches. Greenwood, Cavani, Rashford, Martial, Elanga, Sancho… Ole IGNORES the very sub standard midfield and he goes out and buys an aging Ronaldo for £20m seemingly just to stop him going to City.
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I don't believe Ole ignored the sub standard midfield, he was openly discussing recruits there and we were strongly linked to the likes of Rice but as even a CL winning manager like Jose discovered, nobody was able to convince Ed that they knew more about football than he did. If you think Ole had anything whatsoever to do with signing Ronaldo you really have not paid much attention to how the club has operated under these owners.
 
No way that level of change is happening in on summer. They need to get the new manager in, let the players out of contract walk, maybe sell a couple and bring some in the start making the long term plan.
 
Players out.... Mata, Matic, Jones, Bially, lingard Pogba, Cavani, Ronaldo. Those are a definite imo who should go.

Then you got the maybes, Rashford, Henderson Maguire, AWB, Fred...

Keep.. DDG Lindelof, Varane, Shaw, Telles, Dalot, Bruno, Mctom, Sancho , Elanga. There's 10 .

The 8 that should go should free up some decent amount in wages to get at least 4 quality players in, 2 strikers a CM and CB that makes 14, then you got the 5 maybes, who could stay or sell, if you can get shot of 1 of those then you get another RB in. That makes 19 to 20 in the Squad.
Then there's the option of bringing in some under 23s . But until at least those 8 go we cannot move on. And the ones on loan have to make a decision as well. Martial the main one. Also The big ? IS Greenwood.
 
I do expect a lot of players will leave and as the OP pointed out there are quite a few that will leave whether we want them to or not due to expiring contracts etc. I don't expect we will be that active in the transfer market however as we are unlikely to have a massive budget and we will need to prioritize a few key signings. If I had to guess I would expect we will begin with the spine of the team and at best we will get a CB, CDM and a Striker this summer as those are glaring needs. I anticipate we will look to the academy to flesh out the squad for next season and to that end I think several of our loan players will be involved next year with Amad, Garner, Hannibal and Laird the most likely and potentially Levitt, Pellistri and Bernard if we are really short. Laird for example gives us 12 months to consider our options at RB and potentially let Dalot go as he is approaching the last year of his deal and if we don't want to extend him then we need to sell this summer.
 
It should be. But it won't. They'll just change the manager and repeat the same shit again.
 
Our Commercial revenues are declining. Liverpool have nearly matched us. City are ahead of us. Significant spend last summer and a 96m loss without champions league next year - the money isn’t there for a huge overhaul. We’ve spunked the 1.2bn inheritance on largely shite.
 
De Gea/ Henderson

New RB/ Dalot
Varane/Lindelof
New CB/Maguire
Shaw/Telles

New DM/Fred
New CM/Mctominay

New RW/Elanga
Bruno/VDV
Sancho/Rashford

Cristiano/Martial

That would be my squad for next season.
 
Antisocial said:
There's far too much to do over just one summer, especially with a limited budget.

Whilst missing-out on the Europa League as well as the Champions League would be bad financially, the fewer games might help us to cope with all the players who are leaving due to running-down their contracts or only being on short-term deals. If we have a European season ahead of us without those squad players then the first XI are going to be battered by the amount of games.

I think we have to carry the majority of the underperforming players for another year due to the players leaving for free this summer - so that means the likes of Rashford, Maguire, Shaw, AWB, etc., need to be retained in the hope that they can contribute something next season before looking at shifting them the following summer.

Martial might want to leave but I can't see a team coming-in for him with an acceptable offer, especially at his wages. I think he has to stay ahead of a move the following window. VDB seems popular at Everton so might attract a decent offer from them, but their financial situation is in question right now so who knows. I might let him go to raise some money but not for our traditional low sales fee.

The priority needs to be midfield - DM obviously, and some sort of Pogba replacement in terms of numbers, though not necessarily style is needed. Defence can be a problem for the following summer, as can maybe the attack though I wouldn't be opposed to someone new in the frontline with potential since we can't attract prime talent.

So basically: plan for two summers worth of refresh, concentrate on getting certain areas right this summer and build from there.
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I know there would be several youngsters but if 10 players leave this summer, we still have a squad of 26 players, if we sold 16 and bought 5 we have a squad of 26. Our squad is huge Grant, Henderson, Heaton, Bailly, WIlliams, Tuanzabe, Mata, Pereira, Pellestri, Garner, VDB, Hannibal, Martial, CHong....I know several are on loan, but there is barely a handful of performances between them, thats a large portion of our squad, we really shouldnt be concerned about numbers of players elaving this summer as very few have been quality, the numbers are severely effected. The only concern is a limited budget maybe as you mention and possibly not strengtheing that from sales either.
 
Roboc7 said:
That’s all it will be just reducing squad and wage bill, the real problems will still be at the club.

When Pep joined City one of the first things he did was dump Joe Hart. City fans chanted against it, the media complained but Pep just assessed he couldn’t do what he wanted him to do, he even got two attempts to replace him.

A reset means allowing someone to come in and apply that logic to all the players, Klopp gutted Liverpool’s squad as well. I can’t see any Utd being allowed to do the same.
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Totally agree, people keep mentioning how they have bought well generally without paying huge fees....but they also came in and bought a lot of players and solved a lot of players quickly, that built a solid foundation for future windows, all this sign four has to be done in stages is utter nonsense and has failed us for several windows already
 
What, another one?

This wouldn’t have been necessary had the club not behaved appallingly in the transfer market last summer. We neglected to buy midfielders and we’ve paid the price. It only takes six months for things to fall apart. That goes for most teams.
 
Giggsy13 said:
There’s no way Rashford, AWB, Maguire and Shaw depart in one summer. A new manager will be given a chance to get them back in form, which they’re capable of. We do need at least 5 signings though based on the number of likely departures.
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Well then we should write off the next season aswell.

Turd cannot be polished and one doesn't get played back to form at utd, thats what mid-table teams with no ambition for any silverware do. If your not good enough you move on, this coddling business only makes our players mentally weak, no wonder they stopped trying at 3-1.
 
This really is a fork in the road for United we can either build the club from the bottom up which will take a few years and be painful to start but will lay the foundations for years to come, or we can throw money at different managers, with differing philosophies paying extortionate wages to bang average players, who only fit one style of play then have no resale value or effective once that manager is sacked.

If we appoint ETH which is most peoples first choice including mine, he is realistically going to require 2 seasons and 5 transfer windows to be able to implement his style. In this squad we still have players from 5 managers with 5 different philosophies, with the majority of the money being wasted on overpriced crap.

Murtough clearly respects & trusts RR's judgement as he sought out his advise over improving the academy, during RR time at RB Leipzig, the role of RR will probably not be decided until the end of the season, can't have him focusing on this while he still has to prepare the team for the weekend.
RR will probably be consulted on the next manager on who the thinks is better once talks are at an advanced stage with both Poch & ETH, the most important part about his short interim tenure, is he has first hand knowledge of who the rotten apples are, the players clearly not good enough to take us forward.

The next two summers should look something like the below hopefully:

2022/23

In
ST
RW
CM
CDM
Backup GK

Promote
Garner
Hannibal
Amad
Mengi
Laird

Out
Cavani
Ronaldo
Pogba
Lingard
Mata
Matic
Bailly
Jones
Henderson
Martial
Chong
Williams
Dalot

I would bring back DVB as CM cover as we don't know how ready Hannibal & Garner are.

2023/24

In
GK
CB
LB
RB

Promote
Mcneil
Levitt

Might be others by that time ready to be given a chance.

Out
De Gea - release him great servant but need a modern GK
Maguire
AWB
Shaw
Fred
DVB

Think this would provide a more balance squad obviously might take longer to offload some of these as there wages are astronomical, but by selling these if frees up wages for signings and clears a path for Youth players to be given a chance.

It all comes down to whether these parasites will let the manager actually offload them or we will keep renewing them as its cheaper than replacing.
 
Sign: ST, DM, CM, CB, GK (Free Backup) -

All Top emerging players under the age of 25 who can demonstrate a healthy, winning attitude (Attitude & character must be emphasised when scouting these signings). Defer to Ragnick's experience here.

Sell or Release: (I'm sure I'm forgetting people here. So. Much. Dross.)

Maguire, Ronaldo, Martial, Bailly, Jones, AWB, Henderson, Pogba, Matic, Mata, Lingard, Cavani, Chong, Tuanzebe, Williams.

Promote: (Allow these guys a shot at filling a squad role and sell quickly if they prove not good enough. Stop hanging onto mediocrity for years).

Laird, Garner, Mejbri, Mengi, Amad, Pellestri.

Leaves us with:

DDG / New GK

Dalot / Laird - Varane / Lindelof - New CB / Mengi - Shaw / Telles

New DM / Garner
New CM / McTom - Bruno / Fred

Sancho / Amad - New ST - Rashford / Elanga

Give the blank canvas to ETH to imprint his vision upon and see who can cope. What a mess.
 
It's make or break this summer, if we make the same old mistakes again (or a whole set of new ones) we can expect another 5-10 years of obscurity and misery.

With Woodward gone, Fletcher & Murtough established and someone with Rangnick's calibre advising we need to see some clear steps in the right direction - that means about a quarter of the squad binned, some high quality signings, and a world class manager.
 
I dont think we will get Haaland, but I'd love to see Bellingham arrive in the summer.
 
As tempting as it is to have this discussion now, I really believe step 1 has to be to hire the right manager, before any squad movements are decided upon.

Every major sports franchise - hell decent company - is focussed on a system and acquiring talent to fit that system. It's not complicated. We need a structure in place before we start buying whomever happens to be pushed to us.

Are we going to be a young, hard-working, pressing team? That requires a certain profile.
Are we going to be a low-block, rapid countering team? That requires entirely different players.

For me the biggest theme of our current squad is actually a serious lack of footballing intelligence. Fred, Shaw, AWB, Rashford - these are players that have attributes but don't seem to understand how to make football work at this level. It's the opposite of your Fletchers, Nevilles, Parks etc. Any manager is going to struggle with them imo.
 
VidaRed said:
Well then we should write off the next season aswell.

Turd cannot be polished and one doesn't get played back to form at utd, thats what mid-table teams with no ambition for any silverware do. If your not good enough you move on, this coddling business only makes our players mentally weak, no wonder they stopped trying at 3-1.
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We do need to field a squad and starting 11 next season. If you have an elite manager in charge then the players you’ve mentioned that should be sold don’t look as bad, and in the case of Rashford look very good. That’s what good managers do and we have to trust someone like Ten Hag or Poch will get a tune out of them.
 
Giggsy13 said:
We do need to field a squad and starting 11 next season. If you have an elite manager in charge then the players you’ve mentioned that should be sold don’t look as bad, and in the case of Rashford look very good. That’s what good managers do and we have to trust someone like Ten Hag or Poch will get a tune out of them.
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Good managers also know they can't polish turd. That's why pep and klopp shipped most of the players they inherited from the previous manager.
 
VidaRed said:
Good managers also know they can't polish turd. That's why pep and klopp shipped most of the players they inherited from the previous manager.
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But we don’t have our elite manager yet, and any manager like Ten Hag or Poch will want to first assess what they have in Rashford, Maguire Shaw and AWB before deciding to ship them out. It would be fair to say that no club in history has ever undertaken the clear out you’re suggesting and it’s not going to happen now. The names already mentioned re: Ronaldo, Pogba etc will be gone, but the rest will stay along with some new signings, returnees from loan and promotions from the reserves. This isn’t going to be turned around instantaneously.
 
I’d say 100% going Pogba, Cavani, Lingard, Jones.

90% Ronaldo, Henderson, Mata.

75% depending on the fee we would want. Williams, Pereira, Tuanzebe.

50/50 Donny (will surely stay under ETH), Martial, Dalot, Telles, Matic, Greenwood.

Unfortunately I’d love the likes of Fred, McTominay, AWB, Maguire, Rashford to do one but they’ll all be staying. Shaw I’m losing a bit of patience with but he will no doubt be staying also.

I’m happy with De Gea, Bruno, Sancho and Elanga progress and I’m sure whether ready or not Garner will be back along with Amad.

A huge rebuild is definitely needed and looking back at how cheap Zakaria was that looks a real error in my opinion, regardless of who the new manager would be and with Matic age and future unclear, it would have been a very cheap low risk addition. I’m worried we will sign one midfielder in the summer when in reality we need a minimum of two top class additions…next season is going to be a grind for sure as I doubt our club has the ability to even do half of what is required.
 
James35 said:
I’d say 100% going Pogba, Cavani, Lingard, Jones.

90% Ronaldo, Henderson, Mata.

75% depending on the fee we would want. Williams, Pereira, Tuanzebe.

50/50 Donny (will surely stay under ETH), Martial, Dalot, Telles, Matic, Greenwood.

Unfortunately I’d love the likes of Fred, McTominay, AWB, Maguire, Rashford to do one but they’ll all be staying. Shaw I’m losing a bit of patience with but he will no doubt be staying also.

I’m happy with De Gea, Bruno, Sancho and Elanga progress and I’m sure whether ready or not Garner will be back along with Amad.

A huge rebuild is definitely needed and looking back at how cheap Zakaria was that looks a real error in my opinion, regardless of who the new manager would be and with Matic age and future unclear, it would have been a very cheap low risk addition. I’m worried we will sign one midfielder in the summer when in reality we need a minimum of two top class additions…next season is going to be a grind for sure as I doubt our club has the ability to even do half of what is required.
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There's no way Mata stays, that would mean that we would offer him a new contract AND he accepting it. I think it's a much bigger risk that Jones stays.

There's obviously many players that SHOULD leave, but I think these players will leave:

100%: Lingard, Cavani, Mata, Grant, Greenwood.
90%: Pogba, Ronaldo, Henderson, Pereira
75%: Jones, Bailly, Tuanzebe.
50%: Martial, Matic.

I wouldn't rule out the likes of Dalot either.

I think up to ten players could leave, where sex or seven definitely will, have we ever seen such a clearout in one summer?
 
UnitedFire said:
The irony is the club won't have a choice in the reset. Most of those players I've listed will either leave because of end of contract or force a move. I wouldn't be surprised if Ronaldo even has an exit clause for such circumstances.
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This. People keep wanting to debate reset or no reset, but the reality is that those players you mentioned are gone. A reset is happening one way or another.
 
We can reset as much as we want during the summer, it will make little difference, every year it is the same talk.

Unfortunately the club is a decade away from being able to compete for the league title, we won't get there under the Glazers ownership.

As long as we continue to be run purely for making the Glazers much needed cash nothing will change.

Cavani
Pogba
Lingard
Mata
Pereira
Grant
Tuanzebe

Will all leave, none of them contribute anything anyway so won't make a difference other than freeing up some wages, which will likely go to some of our current shit houses rather than new players.

Ronaldo will likely leave and who could blame him, fully expect him to rip it up at his next club.

Matic, Henderson, Bailly, Jones, Martial, D.V,B will leave if we can find someone stupid enough to take them.

We should try and get rid of Shaw, Maguire and A.W.B as well.

Wouldn't be shocked to see Rashford go as well, although we will prob offer him an open cheque to sign a new contract unfortunately.

Potential leaves us with

De Gea

Dalot
Lindelof
Varane
Telles

McTominay
Bruno
Fred

Sancho
Elanga

Plus whatever youth team players get pulled across.

Have zero faith in the club being able to find a manager that can compete with the best without hamstringing whoever gets the job.

Have zero faith that any new signings wonlt go the way of every new signing, everyone we sign within months of arriving end up half the player they were elsewhere.

Could also see some players leave that you wouldn't expect either. Bruno hasn't signed the new deal they offered him over a year ago for a start and might well be fed up with the current situation and look for a move.

The whole thing is a complete mess.
 
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These lazy shirkers are paid far too much which gives them this stupid belief they have already made it which is utter garbage, the level of technical ability on the ball is close to non existent and then off the ball they are completely static as well which is totally unacceptable. Finally social media needs to be an after thought like it generally is for the City, Chelsea and scouse players but no it's the be all and end all due to have crap this club is still being run.

We simply have to see AT LEAST a CDM, mobile ST and either attacking RB/left footed RW ( ideally both) THIS SUMMER, if we let yet another window go by and are still playing bleeding McFred in most games then quite frankly it's hard to have any belief that things will ever turn round again.
 
lex talionis said:
I'd really like to know what's going through Ole's head right now. Does he feel any sense of culpability, or does he feel like he was handcuffed by indifferent management. Either way, we're at the burn-the-house-down-and-rebuild-it fork in the road.
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He was too soft on them after getting the job on a permanent basis I am absolutely convinced of that
 
croadyman said:
He was too soft on them after getting the job on a permanent basis I am absolutely convinced of that
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Ole was too soft on the players, but I wonder what he himself believes went wrong. No one can say what's going through his mind, but what I would say that Ole never seemed to learn and grow as every month passed by. It was the same mistakes, over and over. But I seriously doubt he believes he made any serious mistakes. He might concede a few questionable substitutions, but I doubt anything more than that.
 
The club is probably further away from winning a Premier League title than at any point since 2013. That is a sobering thought for United fans. Although the football landscape can change reasonably quickly, the actual likelihood is that it will get harder for United to compete in future. I’d be surprised if the club challenges in the next three years given the gap that exists currently and the potential emergence of Newcastle. To do so, a lot needs to go right in the next 6-12 months.
 
Giggsy13 said:
But we don’t have our elite manager yet, and any manager like Ten Hag or Poch will want to first assess what they have in Rashford, Maguire Shaw and AWB before deciding to ship them out. It would be fair to say that no club in history has ever undertaken the clear out you’re suggesting and it’s not going to happen now. The names already mentioned re: Ronaldo, Pogba etc will be gone, but the rest will stay along with some new signings, returnees from loan and promotions from the reserves. This isn’t going to be turned around instantaneously.
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Makes you wonder is that a key role RR is playing right now? He’ll then file a report for the new manager as to who the right ‘type’ of players are in this squad and who should be shipped out from everything he is experiencing right now. The new manager can then go through each individual case and make a decision based on RR’s intel and no doubt respected opinions.
 
I don’t feel like I have anything to contribute at this point. I’ve tried to be positive through every shitty era, turning the corner to a new manager, giving them time, hoping, wishing for the best. Supported Ole all the way up to the last 3-4 shellackings we took. But I just don’t have it in me anymore. The entire squad needs to be sold, all staff fired (save the tea lady) and the stadium burned down. It feels like there is literally next to nothing to build on or worth saving.

Pointlessly nihilistic and defeatist perspective, I know. But that’s where I am right now. I don’t have the energy to hope it’ll be ETH, and he’ll embark on some radical vision turning us into a free flowing winning machine. I expect a predictable, uninspiring short term appointment that confirms our new status as a fallen giant, second tier club. For shite signings with no cohesion to a discernible long term strategy. For endless musings in the media about why the players are unhappy or how the Glazers are making the players pay for their own ironing and that’s why they can’t defend. It’s just going to be more shite. More of the same shite.

Until the club gets sold, this is utterly hopeless. And even then we’ll probably get bought by some corrupt regime that makes me feel dirty even supporting the club.
 
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