Biggest Summer Reset Ever?

Players that are possibly/probably about to leave in summer: Cavani, Ronaldo, Mata, Rashford, Lingard, Pogba, Matić, Jones, Bailly, Henderson.

Think Rashford should stay in the end, no way we lose almost all of our attacking options in one summer. Lingard wanted to leave earlier this season and not much has changed. Mata should have left few years ago anyways. Matić will turn 34 in August. Jones leaves if there's offer for him, if not then stays with us until 2023 until his current contract expires.
 
We need as many new players as Newcastle, who will outspend us.
 
Leftback99 said:
We need as many new players as Newcastle, who will outspend us.
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It’s laughable that some people think it will take them 5 years before we have to worry about them. I can honestly see them finishing above us next year, certainly the year after.

We are so far behind the top teams as the table shows, trouble is we don’t even have the money to buy ourselves out of trouble anymore.
 
The most important thing is getting the right manager in charge. Everything else flows from that.

Even before we start talking about buying and selling players, a new manager should be able to get more out of the existing squad - a better, clearer tactical system, players knowing where they fit into that, more motivated players, fitter players, etc
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
The most important thing is getting the right manager in charge. Everything else flows from that.

Even before we start talking about buying and selling players, a new manager should be able to get more out of the existing squad - a better, clearer tactical system, players knowing where they fit into that, more motivated players, fitter players, etc
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That's why I think ETH would be canny with his signings, where Poch would want big named or more established players. ETH you would think from working at Ajax would like to develop players into even better players.
 
Roboc7 said:
But other than Pogba the players who are leaving for free don’t play, Mata, Cavani, Lingard barely kick a ball. Martial and DVB aren’t even at the club.

A reset mean getting rid of the real problems, the players on the pitch week in week out. It’s looking at all your highly paid, expensive players, those with big social media followings and who you let advertise for your sponsors. That’s where all the focus needs to be not on the players just making up the numbers, can a new manager offload any of Rashford, Maguire , Shaw, DDG, Mct, Ronaldo if they want to.

Mata can stay of go and it won’t make of a blind bit of difference but whether to stick or twist with players like I mentioned will be what makes or breaks the next manager.
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Truth, the players most likely to leave bar Pogba have zero influence on how we play. If Matic, Mata, Billy, Lingard and other fringe players leave we'd still be left with AWB as a starter at RB, Maguire and Shaw in the team and McFred as starters. The problems will persist.

The likes of Mata and Lingard are immaterial to the discussion we'd need to have in the summer. They are not influential on how we play at all and can easily be replaced by academy lads.

Of the players that played yesterday and those that conveniently got injured there is maybe one or two players with the right attitude and the right level of skill. This is the bigger disaster and replacing them is beyond what the Glazers would be willing to authorize so a new manager can come in, pick up the pieces and win a few games but he will be let down by the same snakes when it matters the most.

The risk is that the toxic players will end up poisoning the new signings so no matter how well scouted the new signings are its highly likely that two years from now they would have joined this band of under performers.
 
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jesperjaap said:
A good point in your initial sentence, though Cavani should be added. That is a fear, though some fairly big names on paper, not on pitch and as we have a squad of 36 it is only trimming an overblown squad to one of the right size.

The hope is a few of the playes soundign unhappy wish to leave too
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That’s all it will be just reducing squad and wage bill, the real problems will still be at the club.

When Pep joined City one of the first things he did was dump Joe Hart. City fans chanted against it, the media complained but Pep just assessed he couldn’t do what he wanted him to do, he even got two attempts to replace him.

A reset means allowing someone to come in and apply that logic to all the players, Klopp gutted Liverpool’s squad as well. I can’t see any Utd being allowed to do the same.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
That's why I think ETH would be canny with his signings, where Poch would want big named or more established players. ETH you would think from working at Ajax would like to develop players into even better players.
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I totally agree. It feels like Poch would be just another manager in the same vein as previous ones since Fergie, going for the same obvious targets, whereas Ten Hag feels like he would bring a genuine reset to the club. Problem is, do the Board really want that?
 
I would quite happily make wholesale changes that mean lessening the quality individually, but significantly improving work ethic, desire, and mentality. The approach we've been taking in recent years is a disaster. It may mean we drop down the table in the short term, but it would at least allow us to break the cycle, remove the rot that has manifested, and start building something meaningful that has potential, rather than continuing with a squad of massively overpaid egotistical bellends who turn up whenever they are in the mood. Liverpool finished 7th when Klopp took over and then went from strength to strength, and as much as we hate them, they are an excellent blueprint for how we can turn around our fortunes and overhaul the way we operate.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
I totally agree. It feels like Poch would be just another manager in the same vein as previous ones since Fergie, going for the same obvious targets, whereas Ten Hag feels like he would bring a genuine reset to the club. Problem is, do the Board really want that?
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They should or the club will spiral out of control on big wages and big egos. The crap about us being the biggest club because of how many follow us on social media. Don't they realise a lot now might be fans of other clubs coming on to mock us.
 
Roboc7 said:
I can’t see club having the appetite for a reset
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I think the club have already demonstrated that they have the appetite. We are seeing it right now. Woodward has gone and the top down management structure has seen significant change. A club without an appetite hires Conte when Ole goes. That would be a 'lets just hope this guy keeps us relevant for 2 more years' decision. Instead we've hired someone with a brief to assess the club and become an advisor on, you would think, all things football - even up to having input on the next manager. The 'mental acceptance of a different direction' reset is already underway.

Financially though it's a different story. We can be fairly certain that the Glazers are not going to invest anything outside of what the club generates so even though we are mentally resetting, we will need to factor in our financial constraints so anybody expecting 8 in & 8 out this summer is going to be disappointed. The plus side is that we are releasing a HUGE amount of wage bill burden this summer, and lets be honest we aren't losing anybody that is going to break our hearts, so it's kind of exciting in its own way. This could well be post-Ferguson United 2.0 taking root here.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
Scenes when the starting XI on match day one next season is:

De Gea
Dalot Varane Maguire Shaw
McTominay Fred
Sancho Bruno Elanga
Martial
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You may joke, but I think people on here need to clear their heads and think more pragmatically. There is no way buy/sell too many players at once. There are reports already that we would be spending lower if we don’t make it to the CL group stages next season.

We’ll buy 2-4 new players at best, and I highly doubt any one of them would be big name big money signings. With all the players who are likely to leave, there is a very good chance we’ll see more of Martial next season.
 
There's far too much to do over just one summer, especially with a limited budget.

Whilst missing-out on the Europa League as well as the Champions League would be bad financially, the fewer games might help us to cope with all the players who are leaving due to running-down their contracts or only being on short-term deals. If we have a European season ahead of us without those squad players then the first XI are going to be battered by the amount of games.

I think we have to carry the majority of the underperforming players for another year due to the players leaving for free this summer - so that means the likes of Rashford, Maguire, Shaw, AWB, etc., need to be retained in the hope that they can contribute something next season before looking at shifting them the following summer.

Martial might want to leave but I can't see a team coming-in for him with an acceptable offer, especially at his wages. I think he has to stay ahead of a move the following window. VDB seems popular at Everton so might attract a decent offer from them, but their financial situation is in question right now so who knows. I might let him go to raise some money but not for our traditional low sales fee.

The priority needs to be midfield - DM obviously, and some sort of Pogba replacement in terms of numbers, though not necessarily style is needed. Defence can be a problem for the following summer, as can maybe the attack though I wouldn't be opposed to someone new in the frontline with potential since we can't attract prime talent.

So basically: plan for two summers worth of refresh, concentrate on getting certain areas right this summer and build from there.
 
No, its not the biggest reset, I think perhaps you just like talking about how bad Utd are, every summer players come and go,
Once a new manager is announced things can take shape, pointless going over crap now as no one knows what will happen.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
That's why I think ETH would be canny with his signings, where Poch would want big named or more established players. ETH you would think from working at Ajax would like to develop players into even better players.
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Hasn't Poch been the opposite of how you described him? In fact he's more in the other camp, he likes to give youngsters a chance and buys cheaper players to develop.
Anyway, none of that is required here. They just need to get a tune out of whoever they do sign, expensive or not.
 
It's not the shit managers, it's the shit board who keep choosing the shit managers, simple as that.

All we can hope is that Murtough actually has a plan to bring in a good manager and some players better suited to whatever it is we're trying to do. I actually think with the number of good players around Europe on the move this summer, combined with the large number of our players likely to be taking part in the merry go round themselves, and the fact that our shitstain of a CEO has departed, that there's a massive opportunity to take some strides next year if the direction from Murtough and the board is good. Needless to say I will not be holding my breath that the direction will be any more competent than it was under Woodworm but we can only hope.
 
pocco said:
Hasn't Poch been the opposite of how you described him? In fact he's more in the other camp, he likes to give youngsters a chance and buys cheaper players to develop.
Anyway, none of that is required here. They just need to get a tune out of whoever they do sign, expensive or not.
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Don't they say once Poch got his hands on chosing who to buy rather than the likes of Paul Mitchell, he made some horror signings? Though our fall from grace at least some players might not see us as the pinnacle of their careers any longer and might actually put some fecking effort in.
 
Ole's "cultural reset" has set us back a huge way. At the time I thought he'd done a decent job...

I'd love for us to rip up the entire structure of the club and put a proper, modern one in place. Copy Liverpool or City even.

I'd quite like us to use a couple more of the more promising youth players once all hope of top 4 is gone to see if they are ready to fill a slot.

We absolute minimum need a midfielder and a striker. Preferably 2 of each. Id love a new centre back to replace Maguire - surely Newcastle could be interested in him?

i could see Bruno leaving

We won't sort the structure. All we will do is announce JLingz has a brand new 5 year contract worth £££'s, which may just finish me!

I'd love to see the scouting structure reviewed- where are our Robertsons. Can't stand the guy but he cost them about 5m from Hull and is one of the first base on their team sheets. When was the last time we made a signing like that?
 
amolbhatia50k said:
I don't expect it. Our track record doesn't deserve that. Hopefully Rangnick does have some sway but I think we'll do our usual and cock things up.
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We will end the season on a high and even get 4th. Things starting to work, the football being very good. Then bam, we will hire Conte.
 
Leftback99 said:
We need as many new players as Newcastle, who will outspend us.
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According to The Telegraph, we will have a £50m transfer budget this summer if we miss out on CL qualification.

We will be looking for young players and cheap punts. I can't see more than three incomings - probably a CB, CM and a striker, with a total spend of around £75m (£25m of which we'll need to recoup in sales).
 
romufc said:
We all blame the board but fans are to blame. 3 years on and as fans we are still going on about how much we paid for Maguire.

Do you think Chelsea fans are talking about Kepa, Lukaku? No they realised its a mistake and move on, just like their board do.

United board and fans are similar, hung up on transfers from 3 years ago and comparisons, without any context.
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Same can be said about how Lampard was dealt with versus OgS. I said it during his tenure & will say it again, we are getting exactly what we deserve for excusing mediocrity/under performance for 3+ years.

People are jumping on Rashford but the same ‘poor form’ in seasons past were building blocks to keep a woeful management team in place.

We will continue to repeat the same mistakes.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Don't they say once Poch got his hands on chosing who to buy rather than the likes of Paul Mitchell, he made some horror signings? Though our fall from grace at least some players might not see us as the pinnacle of their careers any longer and might actually put some fecking effort in.
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I saw people saying that but I don't know how much truth there is to it, or how much input he had into signings like Alli, who was considered an absolute bargain until Poch left and his career stalled. He did bring through Kane if I remember right and nobody gave him a prayer.
 
UnitedFire said:
Arsenal 1 point ahead and with games in hand could make that 10.

Their games to go are about on par with ours. So let's call it now Europa at best.

Given this I would say very high chance of exits
Pogba.. Would he really re-sign now? I wouldn't even want him to for the money.
Lingard... Very very likely gone
Ronaldo... I just can't see him staying for Europa and frankly that is just wrong
Cavani... Already checked out it seems
Greenwood... Pre charge bail extended to 30th April. It takes special circumstances to extend beyond 28 days. I won't comment beyond that, but hard to see a way back without the public material being revoked somehow.
Jones. Very likely going.

Reasonably high chance of exit
Martial... Seems keen to get football, but still need to find a buyer
DVB... Depends on the manager we get, but one way or another is looking a risk for going
Mata... Overdue, no major impact if does go
Henderson... How long can he wait, but huge wages might keep him ticking along on loans
Bailly. Will likely push for a move given he is getting no game time.

Staying but should probably go considering age
Matic... Contract till 2023, but turns 34 in August.

I won't list all those that should go because they aren't good enough. The above list of likely exits is huge and I can't see how we can even begin to address half the problems when so many first teamers to replace. However you look at it we are in for big change and you have to assume the only way we are filling the void is by a lot of the talented youngsters we have getting chances.

I can't ever recall a summer with such a high probability of a major reset.
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AVB, Tuamzebe and Pereira should also be included but hard to see a buyer for AVB.

Those 14 players leaving this summer would be a good start.
 
Infra-red said:
According to The Telegraph, we will have a £50m transfer budget this summer if we miss out on CL qualification.

We will be looking for young players and cheap punts. I can't see more than three incomings - probably a CB, CM and a striker, with a total spend of around £75m (£25m of which we'll need to recoup in sales).
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Tbh that just sounds like newspaper shite. I doubt our budget is that low. Traditionally missing CL has spurred us into splurging in the market, not the opposite, and £50m literally buys f all in the market these days. We should be clearing a huge amount off the wage bill too with the players expected to leave this summer.

The real problem is I feel we've had this thread about 3x already since Fergie left. In reality you are never going to buy a new 11 in 1 window, we'll be lucky if there's even 4 new starters in the team for next season, I suspect 2-3 is more likely.
 
RedIan said:
It’s like we have pressed a massive self destruct button this season..
last season we were unbeaten away from home, bralong all records and finish second to city..

How do you go from that to yesterdays white flag waving performance.

For me it’s on ole, he persisted for season after season with McFred as the heart of our team. At the start of the season we had on paper an embarrassment of attacking riches. Greenwood, Cavani, Rashford, Martial, Elanga, Sancho… Ole IGNORES the very sub standard midfield and he goes out and buys an aging Ronaldo for £20m seemingly just to stop him going to City.

we went downhill from that point faster than the drop on the big one at Blackpool.

summer reset? more a major clear out of ego,s urgently required.
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I don't think Ole had anything to do with Ronaldo. We were forced to buy Ronaldo because of his icon nature at the club and the fans would have torn the place apart if he had gone to City. We had Sir Alex and all the retired players pleading for him to join. We were being linked to midfielders directly before the Ronaldo story came out, we signed Ronaldo and that was our Summer done. We had no choice but to sign Ronaldo. To do otherwise would have resulted in an absolute cluster feck.
 
The most important part of the summer is getting the right manager in (personal opinion Ten Hag). The new manager needs a clear 5 years to dismantle and rebuild this whole squad.

Players I suspect will be gone in the summer are :-

Cavani (definate)
Lingard
Mata
Matic
Henderson
Bailly
Ronaldo (he'll want CL football next season)
Martial (wages are the biggest stumbling block here)
VDB (unless Ten Hag is our manager, I think VDB will give it another season)
Jones

That's 10 players, it's a lot of players but IMO it's essential we clear out those that don't want to be here and those who offer nothing to the club. This will free up several million a week in wages and probably raise around 80-100m on top of whatever our budget is going to be, which is rumoured to be net 50m if we don't qualify for the CL which looks likely right now.

So with 150m, we need to spend sensibly. We'll not fix everything in one window, I think it'll be 2 summer windows before we're looking anyway decent.

My priorities for the summer would be right down the spine. CB, CM x2, FW x2 - 5 players minimum for the first team. So the team would look something like this

GK DDG
RB Dalot > AWB/Laird
LB Shaw/Telles > Williams
RCB - Varane > Lindelof
LCB - New CB > Maguire

RCM - New CM > McT > Garner (probably better to go out on loan,
LCM - New CM > Fred > Garner
AM(or 10 as people call it) Bruno/VDB(if we keep him)

RFW - New FW > Elanga > Amad
LFW - Sancho > Rashford
CFW - New FW > Youth Player or one of the other Forwards

Obviously it's far from a complete squad that you would expect to challenge titles with, but we need to get that out of our heads. We need to start building and spending time getting it right rather than spending fortunes on single players expecting a quick fix or shortcut to the title. The 2 summers after this would hopefully see the likes of Rashford, McFred, Fullbacks, Maguire etc shifted on and we add further young hungry players in their positions. So IMO it'll take 2 summers to get ourselves pointing the right direction and 3 summers before we might actually look like proper challengers. So a new manager IMO needs 3 seasons to build a squad up and season 4 and 5 is just adding finishing touches and properly challenging and winning a few trophies.

There's no quick fix for this people, there's no way of us turning this around unless we bring in the right manager with full control, patience to allow the manager to get on with it and the owners and their puppets on the board to keep their noses out. This next manager is the most important appointment since Sir Alex in 86. If we get this one wrong, don't expect United to win the Premier League in the next decade.
 
Likely Departures:

Ronaldo, Pogba, Cavani, Lingard, Mata, Bailly, Jones, Martial, Greenwood (continued suspension or released)

Incomings:

Tielemans, Kamara, Nunez, Rudiger, David.

It’s likely Garner, Hannibal and Amad are given a chance to make the first team. VDB returns from loan and I doubt Rashford leaves despite the rumours today.

This is the type of summer we need, at least 5 players who can compete or take spots in the starting 11. Whether the owners have the guts and wherewithal to pull it off is another.
 
Players that should be sold after this season:-
1. Maguire
2. AWB
3. Shaw
4. Rashford
5. Greenwood

Players that need to be moved on or allowed to leave after this season:-
1. Lingard
2. Henderson
3. Cavani
4. Ronaldo
5. Pogba
6. Mata
7. Jones

No wonder were down the shitter, its not just a couple of players but half the fecking squad thats subpar. Anyone who claims ole left a good squad for the next manager needs a good bollocking!
 
Players who I believe are good enough, including mentally, to stay and be coached to a degree that makes them useful parts of a squad. Don't think they all will stay but:

De gea, henderson, dalot, lindelof, varane, telles, shaw, mctominay, fred, fernandes, elanga, Ronaldo, sancho.

(cavani but he will leave)

So I wouldnt care if we lost Wan Bissaka, Maguire, Lingard, Rashford, martial

And think matic and mata will both go. Who knows what will happen vdb.

Let's say we promote 3 youth players, there's a good chance we need 5-6 players this summer, with at least 4 good enough to be regular starters
 
Genuinely think to challenge we'd need to get rid of about 15 players.

I'd only retain Varane, Lindelof, Shaw, McTominay, Fred, Bruno, Sancho & Elanga.

Not really possible to change so many in one window though.
 
Bilbo said:
I think the club have already demonstrated that they have the appetite. We are seeing it right now. Woodward has gone and the top down management structure has seen significant change. A club without an appetite hires Conte when Ole goes. That would be a 'lets just hope this guy keeps us relevant for 2 more years' decision. Instead we've hired someone with a brief to assess the club and become an advisor on, you would think, all things football - even up to having input on the next manager. The 'mental acceptance of a different direction' reset is already underway.

Financially though it's a different story. We can be fairly certain that the Glazers are not going to invest anything outside of what the club generates so even though we are mentally resetting, we will need to factor in our financial constraints so anybody expecting 8 in & 8 out this summer is going to be disappointed. The plus side is that we are releasing a HUGE amount of wage bill burden this summer, and lets be honest we aren't losing anybody that is going to break our hearts, so it's kind of exciting in its own way. This could well be post-Ferguson United 2.0 taking root here.
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No they don’t hire Conte because he walks in and tells them everything that’s wrong and who he needs to buy. He doesn’t spout cliches about being happy with the squad and club doing everything they can to get back to the top. He’d demand what he wants until he gets it for everyone to see. He also wasn’t available as club were still clinging onto idea Ole would turn it all around.

Rangnick may be a step in the right direction but if he gives a scathing assessment of the squad does anyone want to listen. Will he even be here beyond this summer and why is he only a Consultant. Does club want to hear Ronaldo’s legs have gone, Varane might be a crock, Maguire isn’t good enough. I don’t think they do, they’ll want to hear we’re almost there, a fresh start, couple of new signings and we’ll be back on top.
 
We need to put far more emphasis on work-rate, attitude and athleticism. If a player isn't very hard-working, very quick/strong/aggressive and very committed then they shouldn't be signed, regardless of any other positive attributes
 
Roboc7 said:
No they don’t hire Conte because he walks in and tells them everything that’s wrong and who he needs to buy. He doesn’t spout cliches about being happy with the squad and club doing everything they can to get back to the top. He’d demand what he wants until he gets it for everyone to see. He also wasn’t available as club were still clinging onto idea Ole would turn it all around.

Rangnick may be a step in the right direction but if he gives a scathing assessment of the squad does anyone want to listen. Will he even be here beyond this summer and why is he only a Consultant. Does club want to hear Ronaldo’s legs have gone, Varane might be a crock, Maguire isn’t good enough. I don’t think they do, they’ll want to hear we’re almost there, a fresh start, couple of new signings and we’ll be back on top.
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Of course they'd love to hear that, but there is a reason why Ralf has been given this specific role within the club. It's not because they want him to tell them what they want to hear. He is as close to impartial as it's possible to get under these circumstances, and everything we've seen from Rangnick so far is that he is refreshingly candid in his appraisal of things. I see no reason why he wouldn't do that in private too.

Conte would do the same but in a less professional manner, and he'd be looking at things through a different lens. That's why Rangnick was a smart appointment. He isn't trying to increase his stock for the next managerial role. Nor is he looking at this over a 1 to 2 season timeframe as I suspect Conte would be. Ralf is far more likely to tell the club that we need to tear it down and start over, if that is his judgement.
 
Bilbo said:
Of course they'd love to hear that, but there is a reason why Ralf has been given this specific role within the club. It's not because they want him to tell them what they want to hear. He is as close to impartial as it's possible to get under these circumstances, and everything we've seen from Rangnick so far is that he is refreshingly candid in his appraisal of things. I see no reason why he wouldn't do that in private too.

Conte would do the same but in a less professional manner, and he'd be looking at things through a different lens. That's why Rangnick was a smart appointment. He isn't trying to increase his stock for the next managerial role. Nor is he looking at this over a 1 to 2 season timeframe as I suspect Conte would be. Ralf is far more likely to tell the club that we need to tear it down and start over, if that is his judgement.
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Being told something and acting on it are totally different, they also haven’t promised Rangnick will have any kind of decision making. The people with all that are the same ones who were fully behind Ole and clung on too long. Arnold is likely to be no different to Woodward.

Rangnick is only smart appointment if you listen to him and implement what he says, there’s no guarantee that will happen. Utd are obsessed by sponsorship and social media, I don’t believe this has suddenly become a football club again. It’s still a business first and foremost.
 
Solius said:
Genuinely think to challenge we'd need to get rid of about 15 players.

I'd only retain Varane, Lindelof, Shaw, McTominay, Fred, Bruno, Sancho & Elanga.

Not really possible to change so many in one window though.
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I hope not as starters.
 
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