I’m not beating anyone, just not going to pretend Weggy was any good. I’m not holding it against the Bloke, it was a desperate transfer.
Benjamin Pavard
- Thread starter UnitedSofa
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I’m not beating anyone, just not going to pretend Weggy was any good. I’m not holding it against the Bloke, it was a desperate transfer.
Yeah that's why there is no point questioning the transfer, because we were desperate. Nobody on earth would say WW was good.
What ever one thinks about Weghorst, he served his purpose and we finished 3rd (objective achieved). Also I've never heard someone blaming the manager over a short term loan signing. If you want to blame someone, then blame Ronaldo who caused ten Hag the problem in the first place where we had to look for a emergency loan. These were inherited problems that ten Hag was trying to fix and he still managed a 3rd place finish against the odds with a striker (Ronaldo) whose ego wouldn't allow himself to accept his decline and play for the team in a collective unit. Then we had a GK who wasn't good enough at commanding his box, distribution and sweeping, which resulted in us playing a deeper defensive line against the best pressing teams in the league. So imo ten Hag navigated the problems really well and finishing 3rd meant the objective for the season was achieved.
And regarding Pavard, I can see why ten Hag would want him with his versatility potentially helping us exert more control in possession in the defensive third. But signing Pavard instead of Todibo now opens up the opportunity to make a move for someone like Ousmane Diomande or even Antonio Silva imo.
And regarding Pavard, I can see why ten Hag would want him with his versatility potentially helping us exert more control in possession in the defensive third. But signing Pavard instead of Todibo now opens up the opportunity to make a move for someone like Ousmane Diomande or even Antonio Silva imo.
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Or even a less established player. The moment we got seriously linked to Pavard, it dawned on me that we potentially missed the opportunity to sign Bitshiabu or someone like that for cheap.
When fixtures announced Liverpool were probably raging having to go away to Chelsea on first weekend. Turns out it was perfect for them.
feckers
feckers
This isn’t the match day thread, is it?
How exactly? All of them are RCB
Next summer we will need an LCB to support Licha.
we will have more urgent priorities : lead striker, RB, another CM instead of Eriksen, maybe another winger in either flanks.
This season will be Sancho's last chance to show us and the manager that he's worthy staying here.
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That would've been a exciting signing as far I'm concerned. He looks a big talent and it'll be interesting to see how he gets on at RB Leipzig.
We will need a starting RCB next year imo and a back up LCB. The potential to improve our RCB position in possession without losing the out of possession aspect is huge with a player like Diomande imo.
It's somewhere between a success and a disaster imo. Average at best but acceptable given the circumstances I think.
This is a good thread on Pavard and provides some detail on how he could potentially be a good signing for us.
That’s the lowest of our priorities
We basically need Ferdinand 2.0. Varane in the partnership is great because he brings speed, aerial ability, and his reading of the game. If we could get someone who has those attributes but isn't injury prone and maybe better on the ball it would be perfect to match with Martinez. Someone who can match attackers pace will allow Martinez to step into the midfield more effectively, especially combined with Onana's aggressive positioning. The unfortunate thing is it appears like players in general aren't as good as they were 10-20 years ago and finding what is essentially a young Rio is practically impossible.
The suggestion was one of the RBs being sold. Wasn't counting Evans also.
Well if you don't count all the players available...
You’ve clearly never watched Vincent
Yes, that's the point.
I must have missed Evans signing a contract beyond preseason.
None of the tweets showing now.
I watched him a bit in the WC and still remember him scoring against Brazil and then got a red card. Tbh I don't think he'd fit what ETH wants. He's not very tall and seem to do not have a good workrate or good stamina. An average fast striker imo. But I might be wrong because I only watched him once. Quite obviously I don't watch Saudi or Turkish league. Do you?
I just had a look and he scored 12 goals in 16 games for Besiktas. WW scored 8 goals in 16 games there. Not a huge difference imo. He might have scored a couple of goals more than WW here but not a big difference I think. Both are just not good enough for this level.
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You are right.
Like I said you have not watched him
If ETH wants him, then I’ll support this transfer.
You wonder whether Todibo was down as his best realistic target for this summer and then ETH heard through the grapevine that Pavard was unhappy at Bayern, therefore became a realistic target and jumped ahead of Todibo in the preference list.
You wonder whether Todibo was down as his best realistic target for this summer and then ETH heard through the grapevine that Pavard was unhappy at Bayern, therefore became a realistic target and jumped ahead of Todibo in the preference list.
He was dire yesterday 
Maybe overly harsh, but am I the only one a bit underwhelmed in Pavard as a signing?
Dont get me wrong, he is a good player, he offers versatility as a rb as well as a centre back, he is pretty solid and reliable, he is definatel an upgrade on Lindelof for me.....but is that what we really want or need?
On one hand, maybe as he can be a valuable squad signing, but I dont see he offers us much in ptogression beyong that?
He isnt really an attackign full back, as an inverted full back I am not sure is ball playing or intelligence is that progressive, ideally we are lookign for someone to challenge Varane to be first choice over the next couple of years and not supersure I see him longer term as a starting centre back alongside Martinez, just cant picture it.
See some cpmments he offers us a good short term solution to maybe target bigger young signings that may not be available in a year or so.....well the landscape can seriously change in that time.
I've not really seen anything of the likes of Tapsoba or Todibo to know if they are ready, but I do still feel we should be looking at siging someone who can progress to be a big player here, with more physicality and progressive play and defensive traits than a versatile steady eddy that I see in Pavard.
Dont get me wrong, he is a good player, he offers versatility as a rb as well as a centre back, he is pretty solid and reliable, he is definatel an upgrade on Lindelof for me.....but is that what we really want or need?
On one hand, maybe as he can be a valuable squad signing, but I dont see he offers us much in ptogression beyong that?
He isnt really an attackign full back, as an inverted full back I am not sure is ball playing or intelligence is that progressive, ideally we are lookign for someone to challenge Varane to be first choice over the next couple of years and not supersure I see him longer term as a starting centre back alongside Martinez, just cant picture it.
See some cpmments he offers us a good short term solution to maybe target bigger young signings that may not be available in a year or so.....well the landscape can seriously change in that time.
I've not really seen anything of the likes of Tapsoba or Todibo to know if they are ready, but I do still feel we should be looking at siging someone who can progress to be a big player here, with more physicality and progressive play and defensive traits than a versatile steady eddy that I see in Pavard.
Heads in ManchesterHe was dire yesterday
Yes, he is what we need. At right back he is far better in possession than anyone we have and defensively sound. Tactically, he's extremely sound, which can't be said for either of our right backs. They struggle to follow tactical instructions and make silly mistakes. I maybe looking through rose tinted glasses and not watched Pavard enough, but I have never really seen anything like that from him.
Add to that he is a more than capable deputy to Varane as a RCB, we're upgrading two squad positions for the meagre price of about 25m (if that's to be believed). He's also a top international who has bags of experience in winning stuff.
I think Ben White was mentioned somewhere in this thread and think that's an extremely apt comparison, apart from it more being like Ben White is like Pavard, than the other way. I would definitely have Ben White in our squad.
I think Pavard makes the back unit complete. Not finished, you could always envision upgrading to a top RB or replacing Lindelof, etc but he brings guarantee in squad depth & tactical flexibility (which can't be said for strictly CB options). We have eight seasoned players for 4 positions with a lot of overlap and you can probably do a back 3/5 with those pieces if needed.
This would be the most solid unit in the team. Midfield might need a couple of players still (and seems we'll get one at best this summer) and the front is loaded with talent on paper but it's unclear who will do what exactly this season and a couple of players might be on the chopping block in 2024 (Sancho ?).
This would be the most solid unit in the team. Midfield might need a couple of players still (and seems we'll get one at best this summer) and the front is loaded with talent on paper but it's unclear who will do what exactly this season and a couple of players might be on the chopping block in 2024 (Sancho ?).
I am not much impressed by this stat as it seems not to be a clear picture. The green stats are skewed as he scored a few last season. He played both CB and RB, hence the comparison is misleading unless the stats are compared only for his Cb stat vs Cbs and RB stat vs RBs.
I don’t know about the player. Just trying to watch/read as United is interested.
It seems there are few red flags especially his lack of pace, not contributing in attack as RB, Aerial weakness as a CB. It seems to be like weaker Lindelof or little improved Dalot. By the looks of it, it is better to go for a younger player like Todibo for CB or a similar player to Malo Gusto for RB rather than jack of all trades.
Unless one RB is going to be sold, buying him makes not much sense as we won’t be using him much in CB if he is not good enough to play as RCB with Martinez due to lack of aerial ability/physical presence.
Antony having no ability on right foot and not using the wide areas, the RB who could overlap would be the ideal player, otherwise our attack is too one dimensional. I don’t see Pavard is going to help in that as well.
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I don’t mind Pavard but I don’t think it’s as simple as that. Buying a World Cup winning player isn’t as valuable as it used to be. For example I wouldn’t want us going anywhere near a Christian Romero or Lloris despite being World Cup winners. I wouldn’t even want someone like Ake who’s a treble winner.
I do think Pavard would be a good addition even though I’d prefer a more younger profile who we could mold into a star and long term replacement for Varane.
I agree regarding Weghorst. Despite his lack of ability the truth is we wouldn’t have got too 4 without bringing him in. He served a purpose which allowed our better players to thrive, in particular Rashford.
Actually Ronaldo wanted to leave before preseason even started. I don't know if it was the club who prevented him from leaving but it wasn't exactly a surprise. It's not Ten Hag's fault and he handled it well, but he also sanctioned the Antony deal at a ridiculous price, knowing our budget was limited and that we'd need probably need a striker. That's how we ended up with Weghorst. No other PL club would've looked at this guy.
Playing for a moveHe was dire yesterday
We ended up with Weghorst because ten Hag planned with Ronaldo going into the season. And ten Hag managed the situation well and achieved the objective for the season, where we finished 3rd after the debacle of the previous season. One would expect Ronaldo to be at least professional in that scenario. Because as we know now, there wasn't a elite club in Europe who wanted him and he ended up in Saudi.
And regarding Antony it was a case of the Glazers sanctioning the money too late in the window (reported by United tier 1s) which meant we couldn't move for him earlier in the window. And Richard Arnold had to persuade Joel Glazer to spend money at the back end of the window, which strengthened the hand of Ajax in particular.
We also had the issue of the football structure being in transition with the removal of both Bout and Lawlor and Judge, Woodward. Which meant Murtough had to bring in a temporary transfer negotiator in Tom Keane to oversee the negotiations in the summer of 2022. So you sack the heads of scouting and also lose the head of transfer negotiations (Judge), so it's sensible to go with the manager's picks in that scenario and make moves to replace the outgoing personnel with his (Murtough's) own people for the following transfer windows. I mentioned this at the time and said we were in the process of revamping the first team football structure at the top of the chain and it would be sensible if ten Hag helped with the recruitment because it's not sensible to go with the work of Bout and Lawlor after they'd been sacked.
Man City have wasted vast amounts of money under Guardiola, but nobody has said 'look, it's going to affect them in following transfer windows'. Chelsea have spent nearly a billion in the last 12 months and there's no sign of them stopping. If one wants to compete and win now, whilst also wanting to build for the long-term, then you have to spend and there will be transfers that don't work out. Man City fans didn't lament their management after spending £200m on fullbacks.
The biggest issue facing the new management at first team level apart from the vast amounts of money that's being spent by the the likes of Chelsea. Is that they've inherited a lot of players at first team level that have been given ridiculous contracts by the previous regime.
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I will be worried IF Erik sees him as Varane successor,surely that's not the case as different profiles of CB. We definitely still need someone in Rapha mould but whether we get one is debatable
If you have then what make you think he'd fit what ETH wants and would be a much better signing than WW?
And you haven't answered my question do you watch him a lot or just in the WC?
He is top 3-5% percentile for defenders in almost every passing metrics available, so no idea why are you doubting his progressive ball playing skills. His pass completion, pass attempts, progressive passes, passes into final third, passes received, touches per game etc are all in the top 1% percentile, for both full backs and center backs.
The fact that you refer him as a versatile steady eddy that has doubtful ball playing skills or football intelligence showed that you have never watched Pavard played.
Those who say Pavard only offers versatility and doesn't raise our ceiling... One of our biggest problems last season was that our floor dropped significantly when key first teamers were out. Pavard can pretty much guarantee we can put out a quality back 4 unless we're really unlucky with injuries. And he'll only be £30-40m. Looks sensible to me.
I do think we need at least one young prospect at centre back to develop into the team, but this would buy a little time and flexibility.
I do think we need at least one young prospect at centre back to develop into the team, but this would buy a little time and flexibility.
For a starters, he is a better RB than both Dalot & Wan Bissaka, and a better CB than both Maguire & Lindelhof
Pavard may have versatility, but that doesn't mean he will be a bench warmer, far from it in my opinion.
Pavard may have versatility, but that doesn't mean he will be a bench warmer, far from it in my opinion.