Yeah agreed with that - suppose the crux of it is that I don't think such a mistake would have happened had the offender been white, and for me that thus falls into the category of casual racism as referenced by @kouroux. It's also definitely reflective of the decline in quality of media as incentives have shifted to being first rather than being right in the clickbait era!
Benjamin Mendy charged with eight counts of rape against five women | Released on Bail
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Yeah agreed with that - suppose the crux of it is that I don't think such a mistake would have happened had the offender been white, and for me that thus falls into the category of casual racism as referenced by @kouroux. It's also definitely reflective of the decline in quality of media as incentives have shifted to being first rather than being right in the clickbait era!
I thought Berahino was just a pothead.
Hah fair enough! Will confess that I missed that story here in Portugal
Guess I would suggest the stakes are quite a bit higher here - it's a pretty inexcusable mistake and could be grounds for a defamation suit. I think it's also fair to point out that black and brown people are more likely to be perceived as criminals and that there are specific challenges associated with that fact, so news publications failing to do even a modicum of due diligence is far more impactful and therefore negligent.
Christ.
Stormzy/Lukaku
Maro Itoje/ Marcus Rashford
Mendy/Mendy
If something happens, and it is both offensive, AND it occurs disproportionately often to people of colour, then it should absolutely be called out as racism. An honest mistake can still be one caused by racial prejudice. I understand why you are hesitant by the way, not trying to be holier than thou, but this is a pattern, and it’s a pattern that does not happen evenly across society.
Mind elaborating? Genuinely confused as to why you might have an issue with what I've posted.
Who defines if it's offensive and is there any statistics since you bring up if it happens disproportionally. Christ, i stopped by the main office and met a superintendent for the crude division but confused him with someone from the lng division that i recently met, he didn't have the slightest clue what i was going on about when i asked him why he wasn't on his way to the drydocking for the sister vessel..Fortunately he's white, so i wasn't being racist. They don't even look remotely the same, i just got confused where i'd met him and had a brainfart.
Stormzy has joked about it in the past, "Aaaah! Lukaku! Romelu Lukaku! Do you know what's so mad, yeah? I'm not gonna lie - every time I see him I just look at him and think: 'Yeah you dooo mate!' We just look the same..."
Stormzy was wearing a United top, someone used a wrong photo, it's fairly innocent
Gavin Williamson, who knows how many people he meets every day, was called out by Rashford related to school meals, he had a video chat with Maro about equal access to education, not the biggest shocker that he months later when he's asked if he's ever met Rashford manages to confuse who he spoke with, unless the idea is that the only thing he remembers is that he spoke to someone black and thus assumed it was Rashford.
Mendy/Mendy/Mendy. Same name, all professional footballers, is it racism or just someone very bad at their job?
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I think it's also fair to point out that black and brown people are more likely to be perceived as criminals and that there are specific challenges associated with that fact, so news publications failing to do even a modicum of due diligence is far more impactful and therefore negligent.
It's a rather bizarre take on things. Fact is that feckups where they use the wrong picture happens frequently, arguing that it's far more important to do due diligance when it's someone black or brown because it's somehow more impactful and negligent, no idea what you're on about.
They use databases, they are all professional footballers and they share the same name, what makes it a disaster of a feckup isn't that the players happens to be black, but that they didn't do due diligence in what is a serious crime.
Well, the fact that there are several examples that spring to mind is pretty good evidence? And I hope you'll forgive me if I assume you don't have fact checkers trailing you during your day to day - and also that you weren't creating an association between a random person and a heinous crime completely out of the blue.
Mendy is far from a common surname - Alonso is probably far more common but I have never seen someone other than Marcos Alonso pictured in an article about his drink driving homicide. There are myriad Silvas, Rodriguezes, Martinezes, etc - why isn't mistaken identity so common there?
Hell, even in FIFA 22 recently they used the wrong picture for a Coventry player - they had a picture of Ian Maatsen instead of Josh Pask for his special card. They don't even share a surname, but a multi-billion dollar company swapped them around because they couldn't be arsed to differentiate between them. It's a systemic problem.
The broader point is that this would never happen to a white player - so your position that this is some sort of random event and that the players involved just happen to be black reeks of deliberate burying of one's head in the sand.
Ah, it's good evidence because there's several recent examples? Lord.
You literally just had an example with Jean Francois Houle. The UK express printed a picture of the wrong man in an article about a father, Owen Scott, that tried to kill his three children Must've been fecking mint that.... White. CNN used the picture of a random white woman that was tagged as Patricia Hearst. White
A picture of McEntee was suddenly labelled Rob Porter, who had to resign due to public allegations of spousal abuse. White.
It happens, frequently, get the feck over it. Everything doesn't have to be racism
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I mean, this is a complete strawman. No one is suggesting that mistaken identity only occurs between people of colour - the point is that very well-known and high profile white footballers aren't confused for each other often on the basis of their surname. Unless you have some relevant examples there?
It's also very puzzling how worked up you are about this. Why do you think your opinion about what does or doesn't constitute racist behaviour should override that of the people who are actually involved - chiefly, Edouard Mendy?
Ah, so that's the criteria now
Brilliant.But if Cincinnati had hired Vieira and used the wrong picture, it would've been racism?
You clearly don't pay attention during games when consultants don't even pretend to try to tell black players appart. I can't count how many times i've heard things like "good tackle from Bailly, uhmm Fred. Oh sorry it was Wan Bissaka" despite them playing in different position with different hair, shoes etc. It just "it just one of them black players, i'll randomly through a name it's going to be fine".
Ah, so that's the criteria now
But if Cincinnati had hired Vieira and used the wrong picture, it would've been racism?
Ah yes - the stigma of being associated with a series of violent and heinous crimes whilst being an active player who looks nothing like the guilty party is comparable to a tweet announcing a managerial position. I know that the MLS is poor but surely you can't possibly argue that this isn't apples and oranges?
Also just to address your question, racism can't be boiled down to your simplistic interpretation of "if X then Y" - there are groups of people who have been disproportionately affected by racism historically and contemporaneously, so comparing two isolated situations is yet again a strawman. It's plainly ridiculous to argue that context should be ignored.
Shame, he was so good for City. Must be hard to replace.
…not!
On a serious note, I find it interesting that so many football players have to/or feel the need to rape women? We’ve seen a couple of them recently. Isn’t strange?
Or is it women that tries to get a big paycheck? I have no idea..
…not!
On a serious note, I find it interesting that so many football players have to/or feel the need to rape women? We’ve seen a couple of them recently. Isn’t strange?
Or is it women that tries to get a big paycheck? I have no idea..
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Rape is most cases is about power and dominance, than sexual desire. A fragile male ego, who thinks they can get any women, tries to force their way to show power and dominance. They know they have the power and money to spin the things around and most importantly many females are even scared to report it knowing how rape victim is the only person is instead of being helped and cared for is distanced by the society at large, so many rapists take advantage of that. I used to think that is common only in India, because of Indian traditional society, but was shocked to read reports that even in the most progressive societies in West, most of the women do not report rape fearing the society. Just ridiculous.
Didn’t the papers once put a picture of Stormzy instead of Lukaku as well before?
Why do people always drag rasicim into things, it’s lazy, careless and stupid journalism that’s all.
I suspect neither of us will make any headway here. It’s just about deniable enough that if someone is determined not to see prejudice, then they won’t.
You forgot to add being black and being associated, and you focus on appearance while ignoring the fact they share the same name. Fact is, as i've clearly demonstrated, that newspapers frequently feck up articles either by using the picture of someone else or getting their names wrong. They usually get their pictures from image databases, and while they should have the common sense to double check all pictures, it's hardly that much of a shock that they find someone with the same last name and who has played against manchester city, the tags are a giveaway here...It's not like they used a personal photo of Mendy about a random black guy.
Are you quoting a pamplet?
There's no isolated situations, the context is that they very often get it wrong and you're completely unable to demonstrate that it happens more often, and in more serious cases, with persons of color. The logic behind the feckups are the same, it doesn't instantly become racism as soon as it involves a person of color.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...ns-covered-up-13-saido-berahino-a7572756.html
The Sun are saying it was MDMA he was banned for, so I'm not sure
Yes and this was classed as racism too.
The Stam one is a great example. If this was a black manager it would absolutely have been labelled racist.
If anything, this marginalises black people even more. So now black people cannot lookalike? Jesus Christ, this world is bonkers.
People will resemble other people. It happens. It has absolutely nothing to do with their skin colour ffs. I was always told I looked like Peter Lovenkrands.
Its very rarely the people in question that are offended.
On the Mendy one, this is more lazy and incompetent journalism than racism. If I were Mendy I’d be annoyed at it too.
Ah, so that's the criteria now
But if Cincinnati had hired Vieira and used the wrong picture, it would've been racism?
This is a good example but they look alike so it's not quite the same (unlike the Mendy's). It's like when newspapers were showing pictures of Stormzy when we signed Lukaku, they both laughed it off and said there was a resemblance there, that being said, does a black editor print that without spotting the difference?
An American PR team posting the wrong picture of the wrong white bald man in their PR smacks of incompetence and ignorance, as does it for the guys that posted the wrong Mendy or pictures of Stormzy instead of Lukaku. Not everything has to be racism but ignorance is certainly rife and people need educating.
Ah, determined not to see prejudice, great. There's nothing that supports a theory that this happens more often with persons of color, what we're left with is that Jaap Stams picture being wrong is funny because he's white and they do look alike, but if he was black it's racism. Shouting discrimination and talking about Institutional racism at every single incident is just bizarre, the side effect is that people grow tired of it and get the impression that all stories about racism are blown out of proportion while they're clearly not.
Stormzy didn't laugh it off, not sure what Lukaku did, can't remember, but there was a similar racism debate about that one as well. The Mendy's don't look alike, but they share the same name and are all professional footballers, both Ferland and Eduoard have played against Manchester City in recent years, meaning that image databases will have tags with their name and manchester city. While it's clearly beyond daft that they don't do due diligence, especially in cases with serious crimes, it's fairly easy to see a logic reason behind the feck up rather than "They're black so then it's racism"
Ah, so that's the criteria now
But if Cincinnati had hired Vieira and used the wrong picture, it would've been racism?
I don't view it as racism. I view it as incompetence. I'm also of pasty white of skincomplexion and have never in my life had any issue because of the melanin content of my skin. My perspective is that this is harmless, albeit quite insulting to the person they misrepresent.
I'm also not the person offended.
The picture used in the Twitter thread you posted are of a person who looks a lot like someone else. Its a innocent mistake. The issue wasnt serious in nature, its just a coach announcement.
The picture used by Eduardo Mendy, a person who more likely than not will have experienced racism in his life, to portray a jailed footballer accused of rape (one of many, many insults actual racists are more than happy to throw at people) because the journalist couldnt tell them appart doesnt necessarily feel so innocent to a man who's been labeled as somthing he is not because of who he is. Here we have a man who is jailed for a very serious charge, and another man has has his face connected to this incident through incompetence. Not everyone who read article that will bother to find out that the image is wrong. To them his face is now the one thats accused of rape.
From Eduardo Mendys perspective its yet another case of willfull ignorance. Its different when the perspective is that of a man who has experienced marginalization and hostility because of the color of his skin. Perspectives are important. Whats harmless to you feels shattering to another.
Mendy has posted this in connection to the incident. I highlighted the important part.
“Sad to see that in 2021, in France as well as England. For some, black people have neither names nor distinct faces”
“These “mistakes” of photos appear anecdotal. but actually they are quite the opposite, they are highly symbolic. It’s not that hard to distinguish between two faces, especially when the football jersey is of valuable help!”
If he perceives this as racist, we can't very well sit here and say its not. We're not the ones affected. My opinion matters little when the one who's impacted says it is.
The Mendy's don't look alike, but they share the same name and are all professional footballers, both Ferland and Eduoard have played against Manchester City in recent years, meaning that image databases will have tags with their name and manchester city.
Ok tell that to Eduardo Mendy then.
Everyone can understand where Mendy is coming from, and why it's hardly something he's going to laugh about, but that doesn't actually mean it's racism.
Credit to you for making your point and doggedly sticking to it! I think you’ve made a big error. One of the key ways in which people deny racist undercurrents is by finding a time that a white person was in the same situation and then just repeating that if it’s not racist against that white person then it can’t be racist against someone of colour. It’s a false argument in my opinion, and doesn’t take into account history, context and the experiences of minority groups in this country, but you seem convinced and clearly neither of us are going to change our minds.
meaning to say those strong / dominant woman are more in danger ?
no, any women is in danger, because problem is not women's attitude or mentality, it is men's behavior and mentality which is at fault, where they think get away with anything.
So you decide that it is and Mendy is wrong?
Read my first post again, he quite clearly states it is. To him.
If it's racism or not depends on what has actually been done, the context, not how the person on the other end feels about it. He has every right to have his own reaction to it, just as some will be offended by things that others have no issues with, simply based on shit that has happened in life. feck ups with wrong name\photo happens frequently in the media and there doesn't appear to be anything sinister behind it, just someone doing a very shit job. If a private picture of a black player had been used for a random black person, then it'd be a completely different scenario, but it's not.
Ok so you're saying that Mendy is wrong for believing this is racism. Fair play. We dont agree at all but it is what it is.
As much as I agree with your point, the commentator on City's official channel used to mix up those two at least once a game, but that could just be because he's awful.
I'm guessing this isn't what you meant to write.
Can I also add there's a massive difference between confusing people who do genuinely look similar and confusing people who look nothing alike except for race, just because they share a surname.
If a player called "Mark Taylor" was accused of six counts of rape, no journalist would type "Taylor footballer" into images and use the first white bloke in a football kit they saw.
If a player called "Mark Taylor" was accused of six counts of rape, no journalist would type "Taylor footballer" into images and use the first white bloke in a football kit they saw.
It depends on what they've actually done, doesn't it? Eduouard Mendy has played for Chelsea against Manchester City, Ferland Mendy has played for Real Madrid against Manchester City, so there will be tags that include Manchester City and Benjamin, Eduouard and Ferland. Which is a fairly plausible reason for all of this. It's not like they just google for images, they have databases. It also needs to be taken into account not all of the cnuts doing this have an interest in football, or whatever sport it might be about, and that they also have a ton of other stuff to do, so mistakes happen.
If it doesn't cross your mind that there might be more than one person with the same surname playing the same sport, you are not fit to report on a serious criminal case.
I see what you mean but the people writing the article aren't the same picking images or even editing. From what I have heard images are for example picked by interns and when it comes to editing and making sure that mistakes aren't made, I lost faith on that.
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