Ben Shapiro

[Synco]

@Synco Your debate style is very similar to Shapiro himself. Are you inspired by any chance? It's obvious you don't like me talking about "extreme SJWs" so yes it's going nowhere. As for the rest, you can think whatever you like

I don't see a problem there. An argument can go somewhere even though the parties don't like what the other one writes. The problem was that you were asked a few times (not only by me) to give some concrete examples of the persons and arguments you had in mind regarding 'extreme SJWs'. If you had, I would have answered to that. But with nothing to engage with, I simply gave a summary of my views on the issue, including the water on crotch trope.

 

[Tarrou]

What is the difference between an extreme SJW and a non-extreme or standard SJW?

hair dye

 

[KirkDuyt]

As a moderate SJW, I have no qualms with gender neutral bathrooms. I do however, object strongly to pooping in a urinal.

 

[Kentonio]

Uhuh... Do link me to Ben Shapiro debating a woman who pours water on men sitting with their legs spread apart.

If we're talking about those cnuts who sit on buses and the tube sat with their legs spread apart taking up space in the seats next to them, then I'd fully support pouring worst things than water on them. Hate those twats.

 

[ArjenIsM3]

If we're talking about those cnuts who sit on buses and the tube sat with their legs spread apart taking up space in the seats next to them, then I'd fully support pouring worst things than water on them. Hate those twats.

People who sit on buses and the tube sure are cnuts

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

As a moderate SJW, I have no qualms with gender neutral bathrooms. I do however, object strongly to pooping in a urinal.

The majority of people who are opposed to gender neutral bathrooms are female. I get it. I wouldn't bring it in to be honest. I think the percentage of "gender fluid" people in the population is too small to justify it, in comparison to the number of women or concerned parents who would oppose it. Would just create a big shit storm when the inevitable story of a pervy guy exposing himself to little girl comes out. Not worth it to please such a small percentage.

Yeah, shitting in a urinal is definitely a no-go

Didn't know Ben Shapiro was still a thing anyway.

 

[KirkDuyt]

The majority of people who are opposed to gender neutral bathrooms are female. I get it. I wouldn't bring it in to be honest. I think the percentage of "gender fluid" people in the population is too small to justify it, in comparison to the number of women or concerned parents who would oppose it. Would just create a big shit storm when the inevitable story of a pervy guy exposing himself to little girl comes out. Not worth it to please such a small percentage.

Yeah, shitting in a urinal is definitely a no-go

Didn't know Ben Shapiro was still a thing anyway.

I honestly don't really get it. It's not like the units are all packed together without stalls. The only time the genders meet is when washing hands after business is done. On the other hand, and this may only happen in movies and is a bigot stereotype of mine, now women can't gossip about their dates while powdering their noses and men can't scream AMAGAD I wanna tap that hot thang in the red dress in the corner, since that hot thang might be taking a dump 2 stalls over.

Not to stray from topic, Ben Shapiro is a twat and I would have no problem shitting on his stupid head.

 

[MrMarcello]

People who sit on buses and the tube sure are cnuts

Same applies to people that immediately get up when the plane parks at a terminal. Selfish, insular cnuts.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Same applies to people that immediately get up when the plane parks at a terminal. Selfish, insular cnuts.

I'd like to add people complaining to ground personnel at the gate when they hear the flight is delayed. To what end are you complaining, the plane is not here yet, but sure you can board anyway. Twat.

 

[shamans]

I don't see a problem there. An argument can go somewhere even though the parties don't like what the other one writes. The problem was that you were asked a few times (not only by me) to give some concrete examples of the persons and arguments you had in mind regarding 'extreme SJWs'. If you had, I would have answered to that. But with nothing to engage with, I simply gave a summary of my views on the issue, including the water on crotch trope.

I know how its gonna go. I'm gonna give my definition of extreme sjw, a ton of people including yourself will disagree and tell me that's just the "right thing" and not extreme at all. What's the point of going down that route.

I am tired of debating such things, especially online. A more conservative stance on an issue is almost never respect - rather, its faced with accusations of being "ignoran" "racist" or some other extreme word like that.

I gave me opinion on shapiro in this thread and that's enough. I dont want to engage in debating what I find extreme vs what your find becuase if you truly are one I'd just be abused for it.

In fact, here's one example. The idea that anyone against bernie sanders plan of abolishing all current student loan and making college free is inherently racist becuase youre supporting the current status quo of white vs non white kids. This is an extreme sjw opinion.

Another one is gender neutral bathrooms. You know where I'm going.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

I honestly don't really get it. It's not like the units are all packed together without stalls. The only time the genders meet is when washing hands after business is done. On the other hand, and this may only happen in movies and is a bigot stereotype of mine, now women can't gossip about their dates while powdering their noses and men can't scream AMAGAD I wanna tap that hot thang in the red dress in the corner, since that hot thang might be taking a dump 2 stalls over.

Not to stray from topic, Ben Shapiro is a twat and I would have no problem shitting on his stupid head.

Yeah I wouldn't be comfortable sending my daughter or nieces into a multiple person gender neutral bathroom. I don't really see any benefits in it myself.

The bold is just not true. I've been in a lot of public restrooms that have had weird men hanging out (sporting events, amusement parks, carnivales, National Parks, etc).

 

[KirkDuyt]

Yeah I wouldn't be comfortable sending my daughter or nieces into a multiple person gender neutral bathroom. I don't really see any benefits in it myself.

The bold is just not true. I've been in a lot of public restrooms that have men hanging out (sporting events, amusement parks, carnivales, etc).

Men hang out on the toilet??

Anyway, perhaps they can make male / female AND gender neutral bathrooms? Or we can just abolish public toilets all together? I just can't imagine a world where your mind allows you to give a feck about public bathrooms. Humanity is truly out of challenges.

 

[DOTA]

Yeah I wouldn't be comfortable sending my daughter or nieces into a multiple person gender neutral bathroom. I don't really see any benefits in it myself.

Men hang out on the toilet??

Anyway, perhaps they can make male / female AND gender neutral bathrooms? Or we can just abolish public toilets all together? I just can't imagine a world where your mind allows you to give a feck about public bathrooms. Humanity is truly out of challenges.

I only know them from gay clubs and they work great there as an addition to and not a replacement for men's and women's toilets. They're just a third option you can choose if you don't wish to be stating a binary gender to the world just cause you need a piss.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Men hang out on the toilet??

Anyway, perhaps they can make male / female AND gender neutral bathrooms? Or we can just abolish public toilets all together? I just can't imagine a world where your mind allows you to give a feck about public bathrooms. Humanity is truly out of challenges.

In the toilet and urinal areas absolutely, I think maybe you haven't experienced a wide array of public restrooms -

What is even the benefit to enforcing your giant multi person gender neutral bathroom? Where is any benefit in that anyway? Just seems like a weird nonsensical idea to me.

 

[VorZakone]

It's a bit off topic but who even has a problem with separate bathrooms for men / women???

 

[KirkDuyt]

In the toilet and urinal areas absolutely, I think maybe you haven't experienced a wide array of public restrooms I was fecking accosted in one at a US National Park by a creep when I was 7 years old myself in what was a much more dangerous situation looking back on it.

What is even the benefit to enforcing your giant multi person gender neutral bathroom? Where is any benefit in that anyway? Just seems like a weird nonsensical idea to me.

Errr, well when I'm in the pub I sometimes finish my story when my mate's still taking a piss and we happen to be there at the same time, but it's usually not really crows. Well apart from the dudes who are "inconspicuously" waiting for their mate to finish snorting to take their turn.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I only know them from gay clubs and they work great there as an addition to and not a replacement for men's and women's toilets. They're just a third option you can choose if you don't wish to be stating a binary gender to the world just cause you need a piss.

Surely opting for the non-binary jacks is making just as much of a statement as taking a piss in the mens or ladies toilets?

Besides, on a purely practical level, if you've seen the mess drunk people with dicks make when they think they can take a piss without lifting the toilet seat then you can understand why cis women might fight long and hard to keep the messy bastards to their own toilets.

 

[DOTA]

Surely opting for the non-binary jacks is making just as much of a statement as taking a piss in the mens or ladies toilets?

Besides, on a purely practical level, if you've seen the mess drunk people with dicks make when they think they can take a piss without lifting the toilet seat then you can understand why cis women might fight long and hard to keep the messy bastards to their own toilets.

No, they're mainly used by cis people and they're vastly cleaner than the men's.

 

[Eboue]

Yeah I wouldn't be comfortable sending my daughter or nieces into a multiple person gender neutral bathroom. I don't really see any benefits in it myself.

The bold is just not true. I've been in a lot of public restrooms that have had weird men hanging out (sporting events, amusement parks, carnivales, National Parks, etc).

Men are cancelled

 

[Vato]

Patricia Arquette's reply to that was god damn beautifull.

 

[2 man midfield]

hair dye

 

[Synco]

I know how its gonna go. I'm gonna give my definition of extreme sjw, a ton of people including yourself will disagree and tell me that's just the "right thing" and not extreme at all. What's the point of going down that route.

I am tired of debating such things, especially online. A more conservative stance on an issue is almost never respect - rather, its faced with accusations of being "ignoran" "racist" or some other extreme word like that.

I gave me opinion on shapiro in this thread and that's enough. I dont want to engage in debating what I find extreme vs what your find becuase if you truly are one I'd just be abused for it.

I think a major problem is that you perceive this as a case of (unaggressively) stating a harmless opinion vs (aggressive) putdown by extremists. I obviously disagree, and I'll try to explain where I'm coming from.

Two short remarks first:

1. "Ignorant" is not an extreme word. It's pretty important to realize one is bound to be ignorant on some issues. I'd say being aware of one's own tendency towards ignorance is probably the most important requirement for resisting bigotry. So if someone claims you're ignorant about something, it's a good idea to take breather and listen first, instead of rejecting it straight away.

2. "Racist" is not an extreme word either, although obviously not every claim of racism is justified.

So here's my take: Central to all of this is that "social justice warrior" is a right wing combat term. It really is. Although still a quite recent one, that term already has a rich and ugly history, which in turn is part of much wider political and social traditions directed against the emancipation of women and social minorities. If you use that term (and no one forces you to do it), you associate yourself with these ongoing traditions, wether you're aware of it or not. And you also set a fairly aggressive tone right away, regardless if intended or not. Both for the purely degoratory nature of that term and its political context. This certainly influences the way the responses turn out. (Although I don't think you were treated unfairly, as you were given the opportunity to substantiate your claim several times.)

Bottom line for me is this: you seem to regard yourself as something between a liberal and conservative, but your unironic use of right wing slang, and taking a myth produced by anti-feminist trolls for the reality of feminism, are indications that anti-liberal ideology is much more normalized in your environment than you're aware of. As a result, these things might seem inoffensive and reasonable, and even liberal to you, but they aren't. And at some point posts have to be judged on their content, not on the stated intentions of the poster.

Finally, if you could see what I write not as unwarranted and abusive, but as an honest criticism of something you might not be aware of enough, there might even be space to talk about it. I refer back to what I've written under 1.

 

[villain]

I think a major problem is that you perceive this as a case of (unaggressively) stating a harmless opinion vs (aggressive) putdown by extremists. I obviously disagree, and I'll try to explain where I'm coming from.

Two short remarks first:

1. "Ignorant" is not an extreme word. It's pretty important to realize one is bound to be ignorant on some issues. I'd say being aware of one's own tendency towards ignorance is probably the most important requirement for resisting bigotry. So if someone claims you're ignorant about something, it's a good idea to take breather and listen first, instead of rejecting it straight away.

2. "Racist" is not an extreme word either, although obviously not every claim of racism is justified.

So here's my take: Central to all of this is that "social justice warrior" is a right wing combat term. It really is. Although still a quite recent one, that term already has a rich and ugly history, which in turn is part of much wider political and social traditions directed against the emancipation of women and social minorities. If you use that term (and no one forces you to do it), you associate yourself with these ongoing traditions, wether you're aware of it or not. And you also set a fairly aggressive tone right away, regardless if intended or not. Both for the purely degoratory nature of that term and its political context. This certainly influences the way the responses turn out. (Although I don't think you were treated unfairly, as you were given the opportunity to substantiate your claim several times.)

Bottom line for me is this: you seem to regard yourself as something between a liberal and conservative, but your unironic use of right wing slang, and taking a myth produced by anti-femist trolls for the reality of feminism, are indications that anti-liberal ideology is much more normalized in your environment than you're aware of. As a result, these things might seem inoffensive and reasonable, and even liberal to you, but they aren't. And at some point posts have to be judged on their content, not on the stated intentions of the poster.

Finally, if you could see what I write not as unwarranted and abusive, but as an honest criticism of something you might not be aware of enough, there might even be space to talk about it. I refer back to what I've written under 1.

Great post.

 

[Maagge]

I think a major problem is that you perceive this as a case of (unaggressively) stating a harmless opinion vs (aggressive) putdown by extremists. I obviously disagree, and I'll try to explain where I'm coming from.

Two short remarks first:

1. "Ignorant" is not an extreme word. It's pretty important to realize one is bound to be ignorant on some issues. I'd say being aware of one's own tendency towards ignorance is probably the most important requirement for resisting bigotry. So if someone claims you're ignorant about something, it's a good idea to take breather and listen first, instead of rejecting it straight away.

2. "Racist" is not an extreme word either, although obviously not every claim of racism is justified.

So here's my take: Central to all of this is that "social justice warrior" is a right wing combat term. It really is. Although still a quite recent one, that term already has a rich and ugly history, which in turn is part of much wider political and social traditions directed against the emancipation of women and social minorities. If you use that term (and no one forces you to do it), you associate yourself with these ongoing traditions, wether you're aware of it or not. And you also set a fairly aggressive tone right away, regardless if intended or not. Both for the purely degoratory nature of that term and its political context. This certainly influences the way the responses turn out. (Although I don't think you were treated unfairly, as you were given the opportunity to substantiate your claim several times.)

Bottom line for me is this: you seem to regard yourself as something between a liberal and conservative, but your unironic use of right wing slang, and taking a myth produced by anti-femist trolls for the reality of feminism, are indications that anti-liberal ideology is much more normalized in your environment than you're aware of. As a result, these things might seem inoffensive and reasonable, and even liberal to you, but they aren't. And at some point posts have to be judged on their content, not on the stated intentions of the poster.

Finally, if you could see what I write not as unwarranted and abusive, but as an honest criticism of something you might not be aware of enough, there might even be space to talk about it. I refer back to what I've written under 1.

Yeah, I have to agree with @villain above, this was very well put.

 

[Fridge chutney]

I think a major problem is that you perceive this as a case of (unaggressively) stating a harmless opinion vs (aggressive) putdown by extremists. I obviously disagree, and I'll try to explain where I'm coming from.

Two short remarks first:

1. "Ignorant" is not an extreme word. It's pretty important to realize one is bound to be ignorant on some issues. I'd say being aware of one's own tendency towards ignorance is probably the most important requirement for resisting bigotry. So if someone claims you're ignorant about something, it's a good idea to take breather and listen first, instead of rejecting it straight away.

2. "Racist" is not an extreme word either, although obviously not every claim of racism is justified.

So here's my take: Central to all of this is that "social justice warrior" is a right wing combat term. It really is. Although still a quite recent one, that term already has a rich and ugly history, which in turn is part of much wider political and social traditions directed against the emancipation of women and social minorities. If you use that term (and no one forces you to do it), you associate yourself with these ongoing traditions, wether you're aware of it or not. And you also set a fairly aggressive tone right away, regardless if intended or not. Both for the purely degoratory nature of that term and its political context. This certainly influences the way the responses turn out. (Although I don't think you were treated unfairly, as you were given the opportunity to substantiate your claim several times.)

Bottom line for me is this: you seem to regard yourself as something between a liberal and conservative, but your unironic use of right wing slang, and taking a myth produced by anti-feminist trolls for the reality of feminism, are indications that anti-liberal ideology is much more normalized in your environment than you're aware of. As a result, these things might seem inoffensive and reasonable, and even liberal to you, but they aren't. And at some point posts have to be judged on their content, not on the stated intentions of the poster.

Finally, if you could see what I write not as unwarranted and abusive, but as an honest criticism of something you might not be aware of enough, there might even be space to talk about it. I refer back to what I've written under 1.

You've hit the nail on the head for a bunch of issues here, fantastic post. In fact, this is a very apt post for a discussion about Ben Shapiro because he weaponizes many of those terms in the exact way you describe.

 

[shamans]

I think a major problem is that you perceive this as a case of (unaggressively) stating a harmless opinion vs (aggressive) putdown by extremists. I obviously disagree, and I'll try to explain where I'm coming from.

Two short remarks first:

1. "Ignorant" is not an extreme word. It's pretty important to realize one is bound to be ignorant on some issues. I'd say being aware of one's own tendency towards ignorance is probably the most important requirement for resisting bigotry. So if someone claims you're ignorant about something, it's a good idea to take breather and listen first, instead of rejecting it straight away.

2. "Racist" is not an extreme word either, although obviously not every claim of racism is justified.

So here's my take: Central to all of this is that "social justice warrior" is a right wing combat term. It really is. Although still a quite recent one, that term already has a rich and ugly history, which in turn is part of much wider political and social traditions directed against the emancipation of women and social minorities. If you use that term (and no one forces you to do it), you associate yourself with these ongoing traditions, wether you're aware of it or not. And you also set a fairly aggressive tone right away, regardless if intended or not. Both for the purely degoratory nature of that term and its political context. This certainly influences the way the responses turn out. (Although I don't think you were treated unfairly, as you were given the opportunity to substantiate your claim several times.)

Bottom line for me is this: you seem to regard yourself as something between a liberal and conservative, but your unironic use of right wing slang, and taking a myth produced by anti-feminist trolls for the reality of feminism, are indications that anti-liberal ideology is much more normalized in your environment than you're aware of. As a result, these things might seem inoffensive and reasonable, and even liberal to you, but they aren't. And at some point posts have to be judged on their content, not on the stated intentions of the poster.

Finally, if you could see what I write not as unwarranted and abusive, but as an honest criticism of something you might not be aware of enough, there might even be space to talk about it. I refer back to what I've written under 1.

This is exactly the sort of stuff I was expecting you to come up with. I appreciate your lengthy post but I disagree with it completely. There is such a thing as an extreme SJW in my mind and my opinion. I am not alone in this.

Ignorant may not be an extreme word to you but it is to me and to a lot of other people. In my opinion a lot of the twitter SJW's are absolutely ignorant to the realities of this world but I wont say it to their face nust because its rude.

If your post was to convince me of something then the only thing it did was reassure me of how certain sections of the public think. You're getting offended over my use of the word SJW

The word SJW has no connection to race religion or ethnicity. You getting offended by this word and writing up a lengthy post that will no doubt get echo chambered on an online forum may give you great satisfaction but let me tell you it does nothing to convince someone else that they are "wrong" in using that word.

You are judging me and my political stance based on my use of the word "sjw". I gave you proper examples of sjws as well (but u chose only to select the one of "feminists" throwing water on men). You're not very liberal when it comes to my opinion I guess.

 

[shamans]

You've hit the nail on the head for a bunch of issues here, fantastic post. In fact, this is a very apt post for a discussion about Ben Shapiro because he weaponizes many of those terms in the exact way you describe.

Oh right ben Shapiro weaponized a word now I must not use it because king of the dictionary Shapiro has tainted it

 

[Shinjch]

What is an SJW to you?

 

[Eboue]

I think a major problem is that you perceive this as a case of (unaggressively) stating a harmless opinion vs (aggressive) putdown by extremists. I obviously disagree, and I'll try to explain where I'm coming from.

Two short remarks first:

1. "Ignorant" is not an extreme word. It's pretty important to realize one is bound to be ignorant on some issues. I'd say being aware of one's own tendency towards ignorance is probably the most important requirement for resisting bigotry. So if someone claims you're ignorant about something, it's a good idea to take breather and listen first, instead of rejecting it straight away.

2. "Racist" is not an extreme word either, although obviously not every claim of racism is justified.

So here's my take: Central to all of this is that "social justice warrior" is a right wing combat term. It really is. Although still a quite recent one, that term already has a rich and ugly history, which in turn is part of much wider political and social traditions directed against the emancipation of women and social minorities. If you use that term (and no one forces you to do it), you associate yourself with these ongoing traditions, wether you're aware of it or not. And you also set a fairly aggressive tone right away, regardless if intended or not. Both for the purely degoratory nature of that term and its political context. This certainly influences the way the responses turn out. (Although I don't think you were treated unfairly, as you were given the opportunity to substantiate your claim several times.)

Bottom line for me is this: you seem to regard yourself as something between a liberal and conservative, but your unironic use of right wing slang, and taking a myth produced by anti-feminist trolls for the reality of feminism, are indications that anti-liberal ideology is much more normalized in your environment than you're aware of. As a result, these things might seem inoffensive and reasonable, and even liberal to you, but they aren't. And at some point posts have to be judged on their content, not on the stated intentions of the poster.

Finally, if you could see what I write not as unwarranted and abusive, but as an honest criticism of something you might not be aware of enough, there might even be space to talk about it. I refer back to what I've written under 1.

gottem

You're not very liberal when it comes to my opinion I guess

 

[shamans]

What is an SJW to you?

I started with the term "extreme sjws". Its your average person who has learned to construct a few sentences and doesnt putting a "liberal vs conservative " spin on literally everything.

Extreme SJW"s are less concerned about the issue but more about playing their role as a warrior.



How would you label this woman? And my original point was these are the type of women Shapiro goes after and then paints the whole population with such views. Of course leave it to some to start bashing my word choice. Cant say extreme SJW anymroe

 

[Shinjch]

I started with the term "extreme sjws". Its your average person who has learned to construct a few sentences and doesnt putting a "liberal vs conservative " spin on literally everything.

Extreme SJW"s are less concerned about the issue but more about playing their role as a warrior.



How would you label this woman?

Unfortunately I am in work, so unable to watch the video at the moment.

I don't really understand your first sentence.

Your second, on Extreme SJW's is no doubt fair in some instances. Though I don't think they are a big enough problem to warrant too much thought in the grand scheme of things currently.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Using the term SJW is the end of any civil discussion. It's like going to a Church saying, okay you evangelical nutters, let's have a constructive debate about religion and then being surprised no one is willing to engage you. It's a pejorative term with a very clear condescending connotation. Not once, in the brief history of the term has it ever been used in a positive way. Of course, everyone is allowed to use it. Being a cnut isn't illegal.

Also SJW is an acronym and Social Justice Warriors are three words.

Yes, I do get off on semantics.

The caf is an echo chamber though. I love it.

 

[DOTA]

How would you label this woman?

Someone getting very wound up after being sexually harassed for the millionth time in her life.

 

[DOTA]

Using the term SJW is the end of any civil discussion. It's like going to a Church saying, okay you evangelical nutters, let's have a constructive debate about religion and then being surprised no one is willing to engage you. It's a pejorative term with a very clear condescending connotation. Not once, in the brief history of the term has it ever been used in a positive way. Of course, everyone is allowed to use it. Being a cnut isn't illegal.

Also a term that has its origins in a movement famous for the astonishing amount of rape and death threats at women it produced.

 

[shamans]

Unfortunately I am in work, so unable to watch the video at the moment.

I don't really understand your first sentence.

Your second, on Extreme SJW's is no doubt fair in some instances. Though I don't think they are a big enough problem to warrant too much thought in the grand scheme of things currently.

I didnt say they are a problem. I said some conservative groups like shapiro misuse these outliers to paint the rest of us like that and give a message of why we "need to ban transgenders " or whatever opinion he has

 

[shamans]

Someone getting very wound up after being sexually harassed for the millionth time in her life.

Found the extreme SJW then.

 

[DOTA]

As an extreme SJW

hopefully you're not one of those extreme sjws

Found the extreme SJW then.

I almost got away with it too...

 

[Shinjch]

I didnt say they are a problem. I said some conservative groups like shapiro misuse these outliers to paint the rest of us like that and give a message of why we "need to ban transgenders " or whatever opinion he has

Ah right, if we are in agreement then I suppose there is no need to carry on.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

If you don’t entertain dick jokes, you are an extreme SJW.

Peak liberalism right there.

 

[Tarrou]

I started with the term "extreme sjws". Its your average person who has learned to construct a few sentences and doesnt putting a "liberal vs conservative " spin on literally everything.

Extreme SJW"s are less concerned about the issue but more about playing their role as a warrior.



How would you label this woman? And my original point was these are the type of women Shapiro goes after and then paints the whole population with such views. Of course leave it to some to start bashing my word choice. Cant say extreme SJW anymroe

This is more or less the definition of the term 'SJW' on its own, because nowadays it is only used pejoratively.