Fair enough. Wondering if he can be smart in the transfer market and buy good, fitting players
BBC: United hold talks with Mourinho
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Stack is usually a decent poster but he couldn't be more wrong on this issue. Calling everyone a drama queen every 5 minutes doesn't disguise the fact that this club is currently at a crossroads. The time for 'transition' is over.. we simply cannot afford to keep languishing outside the top 4 and thinking we will simply click back into title contenders.
Next year will be the most fiercely contested Premier League in years. You'll have all the lesser teams dreaming of doing a Leicester, they will be so pumped up and armed with alot of money to spend.. attracting some very good unheralded players from across europe. Then you'll have the traditional big clubs managed by some seriously talented managers.. Conte, Pep and Klopp, followed by Pochettino and Wenger.. Everton might get De Boer.. the standard of the league is going to go up a notch it is inevitable.
You simply cannot afford to have a donkey like Vangle as manager. Otherwise we are sure to end up outside the top 6. Imagine a team still revolving around the waning powers of Wayne Rooney and Mata.. I simply cannot envisage undergoing such torture for another season.
If we feck up next year and all the above sides manage to produce strong campaigns, they will be well set to improve even further.. imagine Pep's, Conte and Klopp's side with two seasons worth of re-inforcements and United having to start again under Giggs from scratch. We will be a world away from challenging for the EPL.
The logical solution is to get Mourinho in now or we are going to be playing catch up for the next 5 years.
Next year will be the most fiercely contested Premier League in years. You'll have all the lesser teams dreaming of doing a Leicester, they will be so pumped up and armed with alot of money to spend.. attracting some very good unheralded players from across europe. Then you'll have the traditional big clubs managed by some seriously talented managers.. Conte, Pep and Klopp, followed by Pochettino and Wenger.. Everton might get De Boer.. the standard of the league is going to go up a notch it is inevitable.
You simply cannot afford to have a donkey like Vangle as manager. Otherwise we are sure to end up outside the top 6. Imagine a team still revolving around the waning powers of Wayne Rooney and Mata.. I simply cannot envisage undergoing such torture for another season.
If we feck up next year and all the above sides manage to produce strong campaigns, they will be well set to improve even further.. imagine Pep's, Conte and Klopp's side with two seasons worth of re-inforcements and United having to start again under Giggs from scratch. We will be a world away from challenging for the EPL.
The logical solution is to get Mourinho in now or we are going to be playing catch up for the next 5 years.
This is the sensible post!
I don't think Mata has waned much, really. He is what he is, and has done poorly in this team, like almost everyone else. But unlike Rooney, nothing suggests that Mata can't get back to the level he was at for Chelsea (and for us, at times...). He hasn't lost pace (since he doesn't have any) and doesn't struggle with injury. He also strikes me as an eternal optimist with a healthy mindset and I have no doubt he will turn things around if given the chance with a new manager with a more...positive style of play.
A team looking to win the title and challenge in the CL is not going to succeed in its mission by having Mata in the side. He's a nice guy but not good enough for where we need to be. That is being blunt. I get that he was a success in that Chelsea side but that was then, in a different style of football.. he does not suit the United style of play. We like our football to be more fast paced, which suits Mourinho too.. he plays a very direct game.
In a prime Fergie side, Mata would not get in it. He's a pretty player, will grab some nice goals here and there.. but if we want to make teams fear us, we do not want a Mata in the side.
Blueprint needs to be pace, power, technical ability, tactical awareness.. all across the pitch. A guy like him, cannot hold his own in a fast paced game.. he slows things down.
If I was Jose, I'd get rid of him, Rooney and Fellaini first thing and look to revamp the dynamics of our attack. They are the main reason why we have so few goals because they symbolise just how boring, immobile and impotent we are going forwards.
I don't disagree with that, but he was never that kind of player so it's unfair to compare him with Rooney. I wonder if we will get rid of him though... I wouldn't mind having him around as an alternative when trying to break down defensive teams in the league. Would be an expensive backup though...
Or it could be a shit storm. What if he does a Chelsea and gets us competing with the top 4 for 3 seasons and the struggling for top half straight after? What if he's a spent force now? LvG had a mostly positive track record before coming here...
Fergie bought and played Kagawa, so I'm not sure that's true at all.
I'd challenge you to name one manager who'd be a 100%, guaranteed success. There aren't any. The reason many want Mourinho is because he's just about the closest to a sure thing as you're going to get.
Good post. I have no problem keeping Rooney and Mata, but if they can only be kept as first choice (which I imagine to be the case) then I'd be happy for them to go. Specially Rooney. We'd be plenty covered with Martial, Rashford and hopefully a new world class striker there.
We're 3/4 players from being a very good side with lots of potential. We've mostly dropped points against teams we should be beating comfortably. If you are not willing to work harder then your opponent it will be a struggle. I think it's important to get Jose in to change the energy around the club. Too much negativity. We can be concerned about the goals or we can get real. We've all seen the matches and in many matches we were in neutral going 45 minutes not even forcing the goalkeeper into a save. So you remove all the possible things that could lead to goals in a season. Bye LVG. Welcome Jose. Jose won't be afraid to deal with a bigger squad which is important for the competitions we'll be in.
I think that is ultimately his downfall. Yes his football is shite, BUT he just don't want a big squad and you need a big squad in this league. He gave some kids a chance but not all.
I think that is ultimately his downfall. Yes his football is shite, BUT he just don't want a big squad and you need a big squad in this league. He gave some kids a chance but not all.
Not in the Premier League. Also, what if's could be said about any manager. There's no guarantee Pep is going to be a success at City either.
Fergie could afford to play a player like Kagawa, because the team had leaders on the pitch. It was a functional team. Playing Mata in a team already devoid of leaders and title winning experience is a different story, he's just not a player that has the required fight in transitional times.
That may be true, but it stll doesn't dispute the notion that Fergie would pick someone like Mata in a "prime Fergie side"
spot on
If you're looking for guaranteed success from any manager then you're obviously going to be disappointed.
You would like to think that as an intelligent man, he may have learned from whatever mistakes he made at Chelsea. But even if he hasn't, three years of relative success followed by a poor season is better position that we're in now. We'd appoint someone else as Chelsea have done and move on.
The reality is most managers at top clubs don't hang around long term. It just doesn't happen. Things need to be freshened up, what worked once stops working and people move on. What Fergie achieved in terms of tenure and success is very unlikely to ever happen again at a top side in the modern game.
People need to realise what a terrible position we're in without CL football - both on and off the pitch. It can't continue. Mourinho, with whatever baggage he has, is as close to a guaranteed success (in the short term at least) as we're going to find - and he's the sort of name who's going to attract the quality players we want.
Well said.
The fact is we are a club who wants to plan for the long term, however, find ourselves in a situation where we need short term success to get back on track.
The process they need to go through is realise that one is not mutually exclusive to the other. We can afford (and should in my eyes) appoint someone to bring success with a short half life and utilise that time to rectify our longer term plan.
The process they need to go through is realise that one is not mutually exclusive to the other. We can afford (and should in my eyes) appoint someone to bring success with a short half life and utilise that time to rectify our longer term plan.
That was the original plan with LVG
Chelsea is a poisonous club> The players, owners and even some fans.
I am not surprised it put him under so much pressure and made him do silly things. He took a poor Chelsea squad and made them champions within 2 years.
We are a much healthier club to be at, I think he will genuinely love the support he will get here. Even with all the rubbish LVG has served us, everybody has supported him massively. I honestly think if things go well he will stay here for many, many years. It's a club he secretly admires and I think his attitude/behaviour will become more in check.
I am not surprised it put him under so much pressure and made him do silly things. He took a poor Chelsea squad and made them champions within 2 years.
We are a much healthier club to be at, I think he will genuinely love the support he will get here. Even with all the rubbish LVG has served us, everybody has supported him massively. I honestly think if things go well he will stay here for many, many years. It's a club he secretly admires and I think his attitude/behaviour will become more in check.
Mata would have been a similar dud signing under Fergie. He had a penchant for making extravagant one off luxury signings.. with the view it would make us more successful in Europe.
See Veron, Berbatov, Kagawa.. and Mata no doubt, would have been of that ilk. Difference is that Fergie would usually realise quite sharpish he had fecked up and then arrange for that player to be sold soon after.
If Fergie had stayed, I have no doubt that if Kagawa continued to look out of place, he would have binned him off. There is no doubt in my mind, Mata would have been sold under 3 years of Fergie management. His face would not have fitted at all in a Fergie side. It would have been a big flop.
Exactly this, we can't take the long term view at this point unfortunately because of the post Fergie feck ups, we need the quickest route back to where we should be which I'd say is Mourinho, and you never know he may want to stay for longer than usual and as you say we can hopefully build on/prepare for the future on that, hopefully a lot better than we have done recently.
And great post Raees.
Yup, probably he ended up in same situations like this.
More or less - plan was to prepare for Giggs. That's out the window so we're in the same boat again.
very valid point. i've worked in similar toxic environments and they make you behave differently to what you truly are.
Never, maximum 3 seasons. I do feel Mourinho will give it his all and stay for a long long time.
Definitely, they are run like a proper dictatorship, as much as the Glazers did bad taking over the club, they've never pressured the manager in football matters. It'll be like floating on a cloud managing us, compared to swimming in a sea of sharks there.
Yeah it actually would be, we came 11th-13th in the late 80's.
Agreed. And with reports that season ticket sales are down on last year YTD, the first signs of the decline in our brand value are starting to become evident. Its imperative that we act, and we act as soon as possible. If this is not announced after the FA Cup final, I will lose my shit (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Fair enough - 25 years then
Not sure what will happen with Mata if Mourinho comes but I completely disagree that he has no place at United if we want to compete for top trophies.
We have had worse players than him in our squad in some of our most successful seasons.
Now you could say they might not have been so espensive, but nowadays top clubs do have expensive benches. RM usually have 100 m worth sitting on their bench.
And Mata at least will still stay professional, work hard even if he is not playing and won't keep moaning on international duty about United 's manager not playing him regularly like some foreign players do.
No squad in the world can have 23 players of absolute top quality.
We have had worse players than him in our squad in some of our most successful seasons.
Now you could say they might not have been so espensive, but nowadays top clubs do have expensive benches. RM usually have 100 m worth sitting on their bench.
And Mata at least will still stay professional, work hard even if he is not playing and won't keep moaning on international duty about United 's manager not playing him regularly like some foreign players do.
No squad in the world can have 23 players of absolute top quality.
I think it is entirely possible to agree with both sides of this argument. That's why we are all going mental over the last six months.
While that's true, look at Park Ji Sung for example. Not as technically brilliant as Mata, but he was a fighter on the pitch. I'd take a player like him over Mata any day.
PSG ?
Scholes played centre mid and as a support striker he shat on Mata for dynamism and energy. Just a better player in every sense.
That match highlights what a legendary player he could be in such illustrious company. Ran the show for us, despite us being on the losing side.. he didn't hide, he kept wanting the ball, kept moving non stop, kept us going forwards.
As for Sheringham, he was a striker and a part of a quartet, it is not remotely comparable. We had a side full of world class players so we could afford to keep Sheringham to offer us something different, add abit of guile to our usually gung ho energetic style of football... he wasn't the default setting or the guy we built a team around. Nor did we spend £40m on him.
He is not a good comparison to make. Mata would come off the bench in the 99 side and be a decent squad player but he wouldn't dislodge any of Beckham, Scholes, Keane, Giggs.. or the front two. He wouldn't do that in the 08 side either. He is not good enough, end of as a first team player for a side which aspires to be the creme de le creme of England and Europe.
Didn't Mata moan and have fits when subbed when he was being benched at Chelsea?
But not if you need a goal or want to see out a game in the last 20 minutes. Mata would be perfect to bring on then to keep possession against a tired team for example.
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