BBC: United hold talks with Mourinho

Would you be happy to see Jose Mourinho become next United manager?

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devilish said:
The last time I've checked we were proud of developing quality players and not turds. And yes keep going on with this 'I am such a bigger supporter than you are' thing. Ive seen many coming and going in time, most of whom left the forum the day United started playing badly.

PS don't you think Stones can defend better than Mcnair? I do
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:lol: Yeah I'm really going to leave the forum when United start playing badly. Look how long I've been a member.

What I'm getting at is your constant knocking of United's own players. I swear you are like a broken record. You used post the same crap about Evans and before that Fletcher and before that P Neville!

Clearly John Stones is 'technically' the better defender. Martinez has spun that message expertly. But have you ever watched the lad play? A few step overs and cruyff turns does not a good DEFENDER make. Stones needs to work on the basics of his game!

McNair is a young defender from our system trying to make his way in the game. Why do you have to be so utterly dismissive of him. Give the young lad a chance. If he even made it as a squad player isn't that something to celebrate rather than undermine? Just a thought.
 
What's tedious is some emotional cry-babies in this thread banging on about some random anti-Mourinho myths - which are debunked over and over and over again on every page...!
 
BarstoolProphet said:
- Is our youth team a mess, though? I'm asking because I don't know and also because I've given up watching them since we have had too many false dawns the last years ("[insert name] is dead-on to make it here"). One of the few things LvG has done great since his arrival is that he has given youth a chance. His problem is that he hasn't managed to build a stable squad which means we have had to over-rely on said youth carrying the team. The quality of our current youth players might not be all that, but perhaps we wouldn't slaughter them (I'm guilty of that) if our actually first-teamers were performing? That being said, I don't see Mourinho being the one fixing that. So yeah, another strategy. Spend heavily on star players and bring in expensive fringe players to expand the squad.

- True, but he managed to handle the situations. Can the same thing be said about Mourinho? Also, I know we would like to compare everything to Sir Alex, but he was a one-off. The greatest of all time. Mourinho will probably match his trophy haul but will he be able to build a legacy for us, not just himself? Doubt it.

- Inter didn't have the best players in the world but he was given freedom to build the best side in Italy which could compete on the International scene despite them not having the budget for it. He was saved by that bonkers decision from Barca to accept the Eto'o/Zlatan swap but the salary budget he built almost sent Inter into bankruptcy. Thus meaning he couldn't build the team on a "budget"


I have no doubt he REALLY wants to manage us (him sucking up to us on every opportunity he had hasn't gone unnoticed), which is pleasing, I'm just against the idea because I have serious doubts about it being good for us. Even short-term.
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- according to Djordic, the U18 are having a mare. I don't blame LVG on it. The youth academy has been in decline long before he came

- I think that's an area Mou needs to work on. SAF never allowed his fingers to get burned by an open rebellion. He would fast track an influential player (and potential troublemaker) out before he can start an open rebellion or just suck it up and keep him there even though he wasn't good enough anymore until he either retires (ex Gaz) or fecks up (ex Keane). There again SAF lead a proper club. Chelsea wanted instant success which means more mercenaries which means more players ready to bring the daggers out if they are threatened.

- We have to see that for the simple reason no asked had ever asked Mou to build a legacy. We're talking here of Real, Inter and Chelsea here

- I think he's the best person for the job and what happened at Chelsea will actually make him angrier and more mature
 
Member 5225 said:
What's tedious is some emotional cry-babies in this thread banging on about some random anti-Mourinho myths - which are debunked over and over and over again on every page...!
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You posting random pictures and videos isn't much better.
 
I can't wait for the 'Mou can do no wrong' camp that will firmly root itself into the forums. Many have already put up their tents it seems.
 
Rory 7 said:
:lol: Yeah I'm really going to leave the forum when United start playing badly. Look how long I've been a member.

What I'm getting at is your constant knocking of United's own players. I swear you are like a broken record. You used post the same crap about Evans and before that Fletcher and before that P Neville!

Clearly John Stones is 'technically' the better defender. Martinez has spun that message expertly. But have you ever watched the lad play? A few step overs and cruyff turns does not a good DEFENDER make. Stones needs to work on the basics of his game!

McNair is a young defender from our system trying to make his way in the game. Why do you have to be so utterly dismissive of him. Give the young lad a chance. If he even made it as a squad player isn't that something to celebrate rather than undermine? Just a thought.
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I haven't said that you are like that. However you've been here as long as I was and we all know that many of the t.o.p reds who used to patronise fans did that. Same about supporters clubs (whom I am pretty much involved in)

I think that Stones has great potential but very overrated. He's not worth 50m. Regarding Mcnair I think he's not United level. Believe it or not I love youths, and I may go overboard about them at times just like any other United fan (I think that Scholes is the best attacking midfielder of his era, better than Zidane) however I refuse to close both eyes to limited talent just because he's one of our own.
 
Would I be happy to see Mourinho become next United manager?

I voted yes, although I'm still not entirely convinced that he's the best option. Then again, I don't know who would be...
 
devilish said:
- according to Djordic, the U18 are having a mare. I don't blame LVG on it. The youth academy has been in decline long before he came

- I think that's an area Mou needs to work on. SAF never allowed his fingers to get burned by an open rebellion. He would fast track an influential player (and potential troublemaker) out before he can start an open rebellion or just suck it up and keep him there even though he wasn't good enough anymore until he either retires (ex Gaz) or fecks up (ex Keane). There again SAF lead a proper club. Chelsea wanted instant success which means more mercenaries which means more players ready to bring the daggers out if they are threatened.

- We have to see that for the simple reason no asked had ever asked Mou to build a legacy. We're talking here of Real, Inter and Chelsea here

- I think he's the best person for the job and what happened at Chelsea will actually make him angrier and more mature
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Our youth academy is good, the u18s are having a bad time because all their best players have been moved to the u21s (who are in a very good position to win the league) and we have an extremely young squad for the u18s now.
 
devilish said:
I haven't said that you are like that. However you've been here as long as I was and we all know that many of your kind did that. Same about supporters clubs (whom I am pretty much involved in)

I think that Stones has great potential but very overrated. He's not worth 50m. Regarding Mcnair I think he's not United level. Believe it or not I love youths, and I may go overboard about them at times just like any other United fan (I think that Scholes is the best attacking midfielder of his era, better than Zidane) however I refuse to close both eyes to limited talent just because he's one of our own.
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So with your Jose hat on then (who I will be as pleased to see here as you are), do you think any of our current young lads will make it? Lingard? Borthwick-Jackson?

I'm only guessing here but I bet you don't. I've never once seen you post about a united youth team player that you think is 'United level'. Not until they've played at least 200 games for the club.
 
Rory 7 said:
So with your Jose hat on then (who I will be as pleased to see here as you are), do you think any of our current young lads will make it? Lingard? Borthwick-Jackson?

I'm only guessing here but I bet you don't. I've never once seen you post about a united youth team player that you think is 'United level'. Not until they've played at least 200 games for the club.
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Have there been many players who were United level, which we produced since the class on '92? The only ones who were clearly United levels were Fletch, O'Shea and Brown, and even them were just United squad players level.

Of course, we left the only two world class players we produced (produced is a big word considering that we poached them as youngsters) to leave for peanuts, but that is for other discussion.
 
All concerned, it would make a lot of sense for everyone involved. I just hope Mourinho takes in the club's traditions and lives up to them.
 
Revan said:
Have there been many players who were United level, which we produced since the class on '92? The only ones who were clearly United levels were Fletch, O'Shea and Brown, and even them were just United squad players level.

Of course, we left the only two world class players we produced (produced is a big word considering that we poached them as youngsters) to leave for peanuts, but that is for other discussion.
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No there haven't been many produced but that doesn't mean the default position on young lads who get a chance is 'they aren't good ebough'. I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt and support their development. Not just write them off at first look.
 
Revan said:
Have there been many players who were United level, which we produced since the class on '92? The only ones who were clearly United levels were Fletch, O'Shea and Brown, and even them were just United squad players level.

Of course, we left the only two world class players we produced (produced is a big word considering that we poached them as youngsters) to leave for peanuts, but that is for other discussion.
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I'm probably being stupid but who's the other apart from Pogba?
EDIT: Pique?
 
Riz said:
I'm probably being stupid but who's the other apart from Pogba?
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His surname starts with P too, and he plays for Barcelona. A lot of people might say that he has been the best CB in the world in this decade.
Rory 7 said:
No there haven't been many produced but that doesn't mean the default position on young lads who get a chance is 'they aren't good ebough'. I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt and support their development. Not just write them off at first look.
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I don't see the point on acting like you'll really are impressed with a young player, when you think he won't ever make it. I would be extremely surprised if either Lingard or McNair builds a career in a top 6 club, and I think is very likely that they will play most of the time in Championship.

The fact that we have been absolute dogshit on producing quality players for our team, and still people act like developing young players is United's top priority is a bit amazing.
 
I can see this being Mourinho's last club job if indeed it does go ahead. He will have done everything he needs to do and then he will go and manage Portugal or another National Side.

IIRC he said he wanted to go into international management at 60 so I could see him spending 5/6 years here if he gets the job.
 
Revan said:
Have there been many players who were United level, which we produced since the class on '92? The only ones who were clearly United levels were Fletch, O'Shea and Brown, and even them were just United squad players level.

Of course, we left the only two world class players we produced (produced is a big word considering that we poached them as youngsters) to leave for peanuts, but that is for other discussion.
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Fletcher, Oshea and Brown were United level.

Pique was United level but we had better options i.e he was unlucky with how much quality we had at the time.

Rossi was United level as well but we had better options i.e he was unlucky with how much quality we had at the time.

Welbeck should have been but he couldn't quite develop infront of goal. Some would argue he still was "United level" when he left, but we had RVP and Rooney at the time. Not everyone predicted their downfall.

Pogba was United level, but was not handled very well by everyone involved, but the academy did it's job.

I'm hopefuly of Januzaj and Periera from the recent lot.

Basically we consistently produce quality, whether that's guys who almost made it like Welbeck, guys who became big squad players (Brown Oshea), or players who were truly top notch (Scholes). The supply is consistently good, and it's also up to the first team coaches to make the most of good young talents presented to it like Januzaj. If we can't make the most of them, that's a different matter, and it's somethng that can happen with purchased talents as well. For example, had we decided to buy draxler instead of promoting Januzaj.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Fletcher, Oshea and Brown were United level.

Pique was United level but we had better options i.e he was unlucky with how much quality we had at the time.

Rossi was United level as well but we had better options i.e he was unlucky with how much quality we had at the time.

Welbeck should have been but he couldn't quite develop infront of goal. Some would argue he still was "United level" when he left, but we had RVP and Rooney at the time. Not everyone predicted their downfall.

Pogba was United level, but was not handled very well by everyone involved, but the academy did it's job.

I'm hopefuly of Januzaj and Periera from the recent lot.

Basically we consistently produce quality, whether that's guys who almost made it like Welbeck, guys who became big squad players (Brown Oshea), or players who were truly top notch (Scholes). The supply is consistently good, and it's also up to the first team coaches to make the most of good young talents presented to it like Januzaj. If we can't make the most of them, that's a different matter, and it's somethng that can happen with purchased talents as well. For example, had we decided to buy draxler instead of promoting Januzaj.
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Only three who made it were good enough. Pogba and Pique never made it here, and neither did Rossi, so no point on mentioning them. For what is worth, I think that Pogba and Pique have been the best players in our academy since Paul Scholes, but we never got any benefit from them. I would put Rossi just below Fletch, so around Brown/O'Shea level. And anyway, all three of them were poached from other clubs, already having a name for themselves, and their previous clubs contributed more to their education than United.

Welbeck was never United level, or close to it. He was a manc though, which is all that matters for many people. He was a good athlete who was average or below average in pretty much every aspect of football. Lets not even talk about that waste of space, Cleverley.

The other problem is that where is the point on giving that many chances to players who aren't that great. Take Fletcher for example, which as I said, I consider the best from our academy that made it here (since class of 92). He was absolute dogshit for many years, and even at his best wasn't as good as Carrick, who isn't world class himself. Or take Evans, who 'made it here'. In most of his career here (bar the debut year and the last year under SAF), he was atrocious. Where is the point on giving those many chances to these players, considering that even the best of them, just make an okay level after many years of being shit and the team suffering in process.

I have said many times that our academy needs to completely change, because as it is, it is more hindrance to the team, rather than benefit.
 
Revan said:
His surname starts with P too, and he plays for Barcelona. A lot of people might say that he has been the best CB in the world in this decade.

I don't see the point on acting like you'll really are impressed with a young player, when you think he won't ever make it. I would be extremely surprised if either Lingard or McNair builds a career in a top 6 club, and I think is very likely that they will play most of the time in Championship.

The fact that we have been absolute dogshit on producing quality players for our team, and still people act like developing young players is United's top priority is a bit amazing.
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Youth is part of the traditions of the club, some supporters (like me) enjoy seeing youth team players come through more than signing big names. You shouldn't be that surprised by this considering the clubs history is built around the busby babes etc. It's not about blindly supporting any young player that gets a shot. For me it's that it is better to at least start with positive intent and support them rather than knock them from the off.

For what it's worth I disagree with you on Lingard, I think he is going to make it. The jury is still out for me on McNair but again I'd rather support the lad than knock him from the get go. As I said earlier to @devilish, I remember him knocking P Nev in much the same way he is knocking McNair. I think most would agree P Nev was a great servant during his time here and had a decent career in the end.

As I say, I just don't think the default position on youth should be 'they aren't good enough'. The nature of a young player is that they probably aren't good enough. But it's much more rewarding as a supporter to at least give youth a chance and SUPPORT them I think. Every team has to have its journeymen. There's nothing wrong with that.
 
DWelbz19 said:
I can't wait for the 'Mou can do no wrong' camp that will firmly root itself into the forums. Many have already put up their tents it seems.
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As long as we have a manager in charge and we are winning and thrashing teams, I will 100% back that manager.
Just like I backed Cantona after what he did (kung fu kick), I will back a manager/player.
What I can't tolerate is a player/manager who is obviously doing a bad job and right now, LVG is doing a bad job (ie. he has us stuck as a 4th place team, even though we have funds to compete with the biggest clubs in the World).
 
Revan said:
Only three who made it were good enough. Pogba and Pique never made it here, and neither did Rossi, so no point on mentioning them. For what is worth, I think that Pogba and Pique have been the best players in our academy since Paul Scholes, but we never got any benefit from them. I would put Rossi just below Fletch, so around Brown/O'Shea level. And anyway, all three of them were poached from other clubs, already having a name for themselves, and their previous clubs contributed more to their education than United.
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Rubbish. It's giving us good footballers so it will be rightfully mentioned. The job of the academy is to supply the first team with quality, and that's what the names I've mentioned represent. If one out of that lot doesn't meet expectations post leaving the academy, or we have even better players in the first team, then the academy can't really control that. If SAF decides to randomly play flunkies ahead of Pogba, or puts more faith in Evans than Pique, then that's his issue, not the academies.

Pogba and Pique were good enough which was the entire point. As were the others I mentioned. Welbeck is debatable but I'd argue that he's a good 2nd choice striker to have, which is again a good contribution from the academy.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Pique were good enough which was the entire point.
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Actually at the time he wasn't. No way near Ferdinand's and Vidic's level. It's ok saying this in hindsight now we've seen him turn out to be world class, but the fact is he was no way better than what we had at the time.
 
Summit said:
Actually at the time he wasn't. No way near Ferdinand's and Vidic's level. It's ok now saying this in hindsight now we've seen him turn out to be world class, but the fact is he was no way better than what we had at the time.
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Indeed, I meant a good enough talent/potential quality player. The academies job isn't to give you a world class 20 year old. If it gives you a Januzaj or Pique, then it's done just fine. The manager then has to take that player to the level he can reach. In Pique's case, SAF chose Evans and Pep was the man to do that.
 
Oh boy this would be great news. One of the few managers out there with the aura and ability to put us back amongst the elite very quickly if all goes well.
 
devilish said:
Ah I love the smell of a t.o.p Red in the morning. I've witnessed many of them in forums and supporters clubs in the past. Most vanished when things got tough.

PS don't you think Stones can defend better than Mcnair? I do
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irony
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Rubbish. It's giving us good footballers so it will be rightfully mentioned. The job of the academy is to supply the first team with quality, and that's what the names I've mentioned represent. If one out of that lot doesn't meet expectations post leaving the academy, or we have even better players in the first team, then the academy can't really control that. If SAF decides to randomly play flunkies ahead of Pogba, or puts more faith in Evans than Pique, then that's his issue, not the academies.

Pogba and Pique were good enough which was the entire point. As were the others I mentioned. Welbeck is debatable but I'd argue that he's a good 2nd choice striker to have, which is again a good contribution from the academy.
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No, it is not rubbish. Pique played 23 times for us, most of them from the bench. That is less than Jesse Lingard (in minutes).

Pogba played 7 times for us, all of them from the bench. That is less than Bebe.

They got poached from other clubs, spent some time on the academy, then a bit on the bench before they left and became world class players,

The only players who were really good enough to start for us since the class of 92, weren't ever given a chance. Instead, we lost time in Gibson, Cleverley and co.
 
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