Schweinsteiger was just doing the wrong thing, it wasn't like Carrick who just looked utterly incapable of having any influence on the game even after Arsenal decided to sit back.
31
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well first of he is 31he's 30 not 35! He had the energy to do the running but was just out of position too often. Whether it was LVG instructions or off his own back it didn't work today
and as a fellow 31 year old, i can promise you i can run as fast as i did 5 years ago so yes he did a lot of running today, but you still have to get back and cover your position, and he just doesnt have the legs to do that anymore, so he charged forward then just can't get back like he use to, kind of like evra in his last season or so with us, still charged forward but no longer had the legs to get bk and left us exposed. same thing was happening today with schweinsteiger.
Ok then 31well first of he is 31
so yes he did a lot of running today, but you still have to get back and cover your position, and he just doesnt have the legs to do that anymore, so he charged forward then just can't get back like he use to, kind of like evra in his last season or so with us, still charged forward but no longer had the legs to get bk and left us exposed. same thing was happening today with schweinsteiger.
I just don't get peoples obsession with players losing all of their fitness when they hit that age. He still covers a lot of ground and the issues today were positioning rather than not being able to cover the ground. Get any CM in the world to press as high as Schweinsteiger did today and they would all have the same issues with leaving the midfield exposed
He was very lucky not to be taken off at half time because he was so bad in the first half it was embarrassing to watch him. He did redeem himself a bit in the second half though to be fair.
people do lose thier fittness as they get past 30, it just happens, especially when uve had the injurys schweinsteiger has had.Ok then 31
I just don't get peoples obsession with players losing all of their fitness when they hit that age. He still covers a lot of ground and the issues today were positioning rather than not being able to cover the ground. Get any CM in the world to press as high as Schweinsteiger did today and they would all have the same issues with leaving the midfield exposed
of course you are gonna leave gaps like if you press high, but you do it with a player who can't cover the ground like he once did and you leave your self very exposed.
add carrick to the mix, a player who has always struggled against teams playing high tempo football, and isnt a player who covers a lot of ground, and you get the utter mess we saw on the field today
Judging by what Van Gaal's criticisms of the midfield were I would highly doubt he was complaining about Schweinsteiger.
You're both right there.
Schweini's problem is just like Herrera's. Far too good and dynamic to be playing one-pace, highly disciplined positional possession football.
It's their natural instincts to press and move and continually run around the pitch looking for the ball etc. If they have team mates or tactics that played to this, they would be effing brilliant.
But like in today's game, call it naivety, lack of discipline or being let down by team mates too willing to play the status quo, their willingness to actually try and make an impact on the game meant they exposed themselves and their team mates.
LvG did say that he couldnt change much as most of the players could have been taken off. I guess most of our starting eleven were lucky that theres a limit to number of subs per game.
Whatever he was playing at today in the first half, it was absolutely ridiculous. Just kept leaving the midfield totally and utterly open, for Arsenal to waltz through at will.
Suicidal tactics.
Suicidal tactics.
I haven't watched the match - but Schweinsteiger often has problems to come into the match at the beginning. I remember e.g. that it was like this in atleast one of the matches at Arsenal before, the first Juve match in the treble season, the CL final - even the World Cup final - and yes, some of the Dortmund matches, too, as they often start the match rushing it (but seem to loose it later on).
Seriously, why was he playing so far forward?
Both him and Carrick played very strangely I thought. As though they had a third man in a holding role behind the pair of them, giving them license to both get forward and provide attacking support. Ideally that DM role would have been filled by Schneiderlin with Rooney watching on from the stands. But since we didn't set up with a three man midfield, it needed to be the case that when one of them went forward the other held their position to offer Smalling and especially Blind, protection. The amount of space that Ozil had to operate in at times was ridiculous. You have to question the tactical instructions and what van Gaal was thinking setting up in that way in a big game away against Arsenal.
100% sure he was told to press that high up front. It sometimes looked like he was playing as a second striker off the ball, a CM of his experience would never do that if he wasn't given any instructions.
Apart from that an average game but I had to laugh at his face when Ramsey tried to stir shit up.
Apart from that an average game but I had to laugh at his face when Ramsey tried to stir shit up.
Is that your polite way of saying 'shitely'? You expect much better from such experienced players in a big game, but ye you do have to ask what their instructions were and Van Gaal must take some blame
LVG was asked about Schein's position in the post match - his response was difficult to understand as I think the question was getting lost in translation along the way, but he didnt seem happy and mentioned a change in the 2nd half. His play seemed almost niave at the start, running round like a headless chicken.
I was almost screaming "let 'em go!" in the pub when that happened. Bastian would have destroyed Ramsey if things came down to that.
Well, van Gaal's tactics seemed to involve having Carrick and Schweinsteiger press very high up the pitch to put pressure on Arsenal's midfielders. If that is indeed the case, they did as instructed although I accept that they should have seen the danger far sooner for players who have that level of awareness and understanding of how to control a game. We were still piling forward at 2-0 down and leaving huge gaps which is utterly insane and very unlike what you'd expect from a typical van Gaal side. You'd have expected one or both of them to try and calm things down, there was still 80 minutes to play. It was the sort of naive display we saw from Arsenal last season ironically.
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It was just utterly bizzare. If they brought out a DVD of how not to play against Arsenal, it would just be a replay of our first half performance today.
I honestly don't know what LVG was thinking.
He improved in the second. Was suicidal pressing in the first though.
Gary's criticism of him in 1st half was winding me up yesterday. He was pressing up the pitch because nobody else was (Rooney) which should have been perfectly ok as the missing player (Rooney) should have slotted in to cover, unfortunately that didn't happen.
I do agree however, Bastion should of known or at least realised very quickly he would get no help and just sat back & let Arsenal come at us. At least they wouldn't have got in behind our midfield so easily.
I do agree however, Bastion should of known or at least realised very quickly he would get no help and just sat back & let Arsenal come at us. At least they wouldn't have got in behind our midfield so easily.
He is an all action midfielder, and you can see how he was doing everything/trying to do too much. He was always available for a pass. There was a moment in the 2nd half where the ball was on the near touchline and he was passing it short to Valencia (or Mata), and moments later it was on the left wing and there he was trying to dictate play again.
Yesterday, the 1st half was pretty abysmal for the whole team, but in the 2nd half you can see how he tried to force the issue where as others weren't.
Yesterday, the 1st half was pretty abysmal for the whole team, but in the 2nd half you can see how he tried to force the issue where as others weren't.
I personally thought he was slightly better than Carrick, although thats saying nothing because Carrick looked completely past it. He did try to make a few things happen coming wide and getting some crosses in. But yes his pressing left us exposed far too often
It must be hard to be in the exile in Manchester when Felix and Usain Bolt are rocking the Oktoberfest...
I just give the link here and do not put in the clip as the author put it on youtube with "use only with written permit"...
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I just give the link here and do not put in the clip as the author put it on youtube with "use only with written permit"...
7LjGTk9SzY8
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There were times that Schweinsteiger went to press the ball and Carrick just stood there a good 10m not covering the space he left. All Arsenal did for that first 20 mins was play the ball into the space left by Schweinsteiger when he moved up. One straight pass consistently beat 3 or 4 of your players.
I'm sorry but these are always the most ridiculous posts.For me, it indicates that the whole gameplan was shit from the start, including individual instructions. Schweinsteiger tried his best, but the task that was asked of him was certainly exposing us and the damage was already done from the moment he probably realized what the whole situation was. I agree with you when you mention that it was because Rooney didn't do his job that Schweinsteiger was so far up front.
My impression was, that he tried to press the deep play making of Arsenal, while other players had a different idea of how to play. He left acres of space behind him, that no one covered. It was really weird, because it is certainly reasonable to press Arsenal high up the pitch, but it doesn´t make sense that Schweinsteiger would have to do it all the time. No one else did it and he was drawn out again and again.
It is something that happened occasionally in other matches as well (we just weren´t punished). Nobody is putting pressure on the guy with the ball, so Schweinsteiger would charge forward to do so. It is a high-risk lose-lose Situation. You can´t allow players to have so much time on the ball, but Schweinsteiger shouldn´t be the guy, who pressures the deeplying playmakers. I hope, that the team learns something from the last game. They have to be all on the same page, when it comes to pressing.
It is something that happened occasionally in other matches as well (we just weren´t punished). Nobody is putting pressure on the guy with the ball, so Schweinsteiger would charge forward to do so. It is a high-risk lose-lose Situation. You can´t allow players to have so much time on the ball, but Schweinsteiger shouldn´t be the guy, who pressures the deeplying playmakers. I hope, that the team learns something from the last game. They have to be all on the same page, when it comes to pressing.
The tactics were way off. What was he doing way up the pitch? Obviously that had to be instructed since thats not natural for him.
You should seriously consider retiring from watching football.
He was trying to do the job of Memphis/Rooney all on his own, United have played with a high press all season and those 2 just stood around allowing Arsenal's CB's and MF all the time in the world. His heat map showed an average position higher than Rooney's which perectly illustrates just how bad Rooney is as a 10.
Being new at the club I suspect he thought Rooney was actually a capable footballer, it wasn't enough that he was doing the pressing for Rooney but he didn't even have the intelligence to cover for Basti when he left the CM and we got horribly exposed.
Playing a system with a high line falls to bits when a few players don't do their jobs and vs a side like Arsenal we got torn apart.
I was thinking this, he must be baffled what he is seeing. This is the guy who lifted the world cup for Germany and grown up at Bayern, I think he would know a thing or 2 about team shape and discipline in sides who follow instruction.
We are comparing the current German captain with the current England captain. The difference is staggering
Really surprised by the amount of shit he got from the media after one bad game, would be nice to judge him after some time but I saw an incredibly high amount of criticism for him as compared to our other players even though pretty much every player was bad.
I mean just bizarre why he got singled out so much
Because Rooney, Carrick and Young are English and therefore exempt from it. Martial is likeable right now and can't be subjected to negativity while Memphis wasn't on long enough.
It's wrong. Schweinsteiger was arguably our best player statistically.
See, I don't agree with this sentiment. Rooney seems to get a bit of a free ride by many in the press, but Carrick has largely been under appreciated and Young isn't liked either because of his antics. I'd say it's more because he's a big name signing on big wages.
Because Neville made such a big deal of it
It was utterly suicidal play from Schweinsteiger but it totally exposes the Carrick deep down we all know. I don't get the high praise/he's under appreciated bs. He does a decent job most of the time and is very good at best but he is a passenger and his style of play is completely playing to the status quo and 'tacitical positioning' i.e being content with sitting deep.
I think Schweini does what Schweini wants i.e he might get told tactics etc but his natural instincts will dictate where is on the pitch and most managers will allow that because of his ability and leadership. I think the LVG post match interview sort of confirms it for me. The interviewer basically asked 'why was he pressing so high and was it your instructions?' and LVG's quizzical response was to dodge any direct criticism of Schwein's movements and his own tactics (because they didn't matched i.e he didn't want to admit who was 'wrong').
Stupid and lazy journalism. So was Schweinsteiger caught high pressing or was he out maneuvered by the younger mobile midfield? You cant claim both of those things, you have to decide on one.
I re watched the match and still have the same feeling I had at the time. He was doing the all the pressing alone and the players around him especially the attacking lot either should have backed him or the management team should have told him to calm down. Judging by the fact that everyone pressed with him in the second half and he wasnt taken off, I would like to think he was let down by his team mates and not by the coaches.
Here is Ronaldo doing a similar thing and realising his mates are just walking around watching him.
Yeah, his pressing was fine. It would've worked if he rest did it as well, but it was only him and rooney really. Memphis didn't do much pressing, Carrick went hiding all game and there were huge gaps all over the pitch because of this. Carrick and Schweinsteiger as a partnership just doesn't work because Carrick cant play in a huge paced and high pressing game anymore. The flak schweinsteiger has received in the media is wayyyyy off, it should be Carrick being criticized if anyone from the midfield. Schweinsteiger did his job basically as he does every game from a pressing view point. The others didn't work with him though.
But you can't really do the pressing alone when the rest of the team isn't because that's pointless and leaves us vulnerable as it did. Agree with people saying that he was naive with his pressing in the first half an hour or so because it was annoying to see him play #10 at times. But yea, shit he gets is just funny but that's to be expected as nobody would touch Rooney despite him being 10000 times worse and being shit this season, the criticism has to fall somewhere.
And obviously agree that him and Carrick can't play together because it's too slow, especially with useless captain in front of them.
I totally blame LvG. The team he picked left us so badly exposed. Schneiderlin had to start. He is the most mobile of our midfielders. Rooney should not have played. Schweinsteiger at least made an effort. Carrick did absolutely nothing.
One of the things I noticed about Bayern recently is how much they work in pressing their opponents to recover possession - it's relentless. I think Schweini still sees the way Bayern played perhaps as THE way, and does so instinctively. I'd like to see him paired with Schneiderlin and being both given instructions to press.
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