Barthez to be axed?

Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
<strong>

Ok, i'll try one more time...do you not think that if Silvestre posed a major threat in a free kick situation, he would maybe be given the opportunity to take one from time to time?

Fergie sees him in training and if he'd seen that MS had that ability, he wouldve given him the chance to take a few free kicks in matches...you get my point?</strong><hr></blockquote>

No! It's a non starter -why are you even bothering with this futile comparison?
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Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
<strong>

Ok, i'll try one more time...do you not think that if Silvestre posed a major threat in a free kick situation, he would maybe be given the opportunity to take one from time to time?

</strong><hr></blockquote>

true... but we've got giggs, becks, veron, ole, and scholes... who are all WC at freekicks...TBH i think all of them are better than Bobby at deadball situations.
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Originally posted by Dans:
<strong> For me, there has been no more than two Brazilian players in the 90s who would get anywhere near those legends - Romario and Rivaldo. The rest just ain't all that - RC included.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ronaldo? the man was phenomenal before his injury.
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Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>I'd say that the job of a left bac is to defend first and to bomb down the flanks second. MS defends better than RC who I believe is rightly recognised as a defender who ain't the cleverest at...........defending! MS, has a bad moment or two like most defenders but is a sound defender. RCs defending is not top drawer by any means. Let's move on, to bombing down the flanks as you put it - I wouldn't say that Carlos is any better than MS, nor would I say that Brazilians are that much better than the rest of the worlds players. The 60s, the 70s and the 80s were decades when I think most would agree that there were very good Brazilians around. For me, there has been no more than two Brazilian players in the 90s who would get anywhere near those legends - Romario and Rivaldo. The rest just ain't all that - RC included.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm not saying he belongs in the class of 1970 by any means.
Technically speaking and in terms of skill, brazilians are better than most.
I agree carlos' defending was at one time very questionable but trust me, he has improved greatly and is now someone who defends AND attacks very well.
As for bombing down the wings, i'd hazard a guess that most right sided midfielders/defenders would prefer to face Silvestre than Carlos, in that respect.
And regarding your Rivaldo & Romario comments...i agree but would also include (based on the late 90s) Ronaldo, who but for a mystery illness, would have won the 1998 world cup for brazil almost single handed.
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Admittedly I have forgotten Ronaldo, but I don't think he's done what it takes consistently on the world stage to yet rank among thetruly great Brazilians.
 
Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
<strong>

Ronaldo, who but for a mystery illness, would have won the 1998 world cup for brazil almost single handed.</strong><hr></blockquote>

he and Zidane have been the best two players in the world, during the 90's.
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Syd, we're approaching total subjectivity here, so rather than carry on we should agree to disagree.
 
Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>

No! It's a non starter -why are you even bothering with this futile comparison?</strong><hr></blockquote>

So why in your opinion, does Silvestre NEVER get to strike at goal from a free kick?
I remember a few years ago, in your last game when the title was won already, Gary Pallister took and scored from a free kick...so clearly the fact that you have better 'specialists' doesnt close the door for MS in EVERY situation.
Why can't you simply admit that the fella, despite being an effective defender, clearly doesnt strike a good shot from 25-35 yards???
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Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>Syd, we're approaching total subjectivity here, so rather than carry on we should agree to disagree.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Fair enough mate...dont misunderstand me...i'm not slating Silvestre at all...i just think in terms of a 'goal threat', Roberto Carlos is miles ahead of him, that's all...that's not a major criticism of your player, rather just a compliment to him that he's being compared to Roberto Carlos.
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Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
<strong>

So why in your opinion, does Silvestre NEVER get to strike at goal from a free kick?
I remember a few years ago, in your last game when the title was won already, Gary Pallister took and scored from a free kick...so clearly the fact that you have better 'specialists' doesnt close the door for MS in EVERY situation.
Why can't you simply admit that the fella, despite being an effective defender, clearly doesnt strike a good shot from 25-35 yards???</strong><hr></blockquote>

Why are you still harping on about this? My point was that you cannot compare a player who takes free kicks regularly (albeit, on the whole unsucessfully - in terms of goals scored) with a guy who doesn't take free kicks at all. I've made it perfectly clear, I believe, that I am comparing the overall value, contribution, etc of one defender against the other - one for one on free kicks is irrelevant and especially so when you consider that RC rarely actually scores.
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Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>

Why are you still harping on about this? My point was that you cannot compare a player who takes free kicks regularly (albeit, on the whole unsucessfully - in terms of goals scored) with a guy who doesn't take free kicks at all. I've made it perfectly clear, I believe, that I am comparing the overall value, contribution, etc of one defender against the other - one for one on free kicks is irrelevant and especially so when you consider that RC rarely actually scores.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Why cant you see that i initially brought up the topic of RC to point out that he's a threat going forward, not in order to discuss his defensive contributions. Silvestre was then brought up as a 'threat' going forward, which he clearly isnt, anywhere near as much as his brazilian opposite number.
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Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
<strong>I know what boring means because you're providing so many perfect examples.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Sounds like the title to one of "scousy Spices" new singles ;)
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Originally posted by Murt:
<strong>

Sounds like the title to one of "scousy Spices" new singles ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

'scousy spice'???

Ooh, i AM intrigued.

;)
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Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
<strong>

Why cant you see that i initially brought up the topic of RC to point out that he's a threat going forward, not in order to discuss his defensive contributions. Silvestre was then brought up as a 'threat' going forward, which he clearly isnt, anywhere near as much as his brazilian opposite number.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Jeez mate - do you read my posts or what? Of course I see your point about RC and his "legendary free kick". Do you not see my point about the merits of RC vs those of MS as attacking full backs whose play revolves around a little more than the reputation one acquired during a friendly tournament in France many moons ago?
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Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
<strong>

Why can't you simply admit that the fella, despite being an effective defender, clearly doesnt strike a good shot from 25-35 yards???</strong><hr></blockquote>

How did we ever get into this stupid discussion? <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> I think Silvestre's long rage shooting is woeful to say the least, but thats hardly a measure between two players, especially defenders!

But Mickey's younger and we already have two of the best free kick takers in the world so I'm not too disturbed with the situation. :D
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Don't know what's gone on in this topic - just speed read a bit of it. Want to question where Carlos ever got his reputation as a free kick specialist? Strikes me as more of a toebog specialist - based on the freekicks I have seen him take, I would wager his free kick in Le Tournoi was a fluke...

Very good defensively mind...
 
Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
<strong>
So why do you think i included Roberto Carlos as a threat if I wasnt talking about free kicks then doofus???</strong><hr></blockquote>Where in this post did you mention free kicks?
Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
<strong>I think you'll beat BL but the final against either spanish side is anyone's game...should be a cracker though i hope.

Does playing Madrid not hold any fears for you?
Theyre top quality and will severly test your ropey back line, as they did when they scored 3 at OT in recent years.

Against the considerable threat of Morientes, Raul, Guti, Figo, Zidane, Roberto Carlos etc...dya fancy your defence to be strong enough?</strong><hr></blockquote> :confused: nowhere did you mention free kicks. you brought that up coz more than one person in this thread shot you down re: your laughing off of micky.
Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
<strong>You strike me as being the sort of person who scratches his head and points at aeroplanes.</strong><hr></blockquote>it's plainly obvious to me who is scratching his head a lot syd ... you.

argumentative scousers :rolleyes: there's nothing worse.
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Originally posted by Amir:
<strong>

How did we ever get into this stupid discussion? <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> I think Silvestre's long rage shooting is woeful to say the least, but thats hardly a measure between two players, especially defenders!
</strong><hr></blockquote>

My point about Carlos going forward was not in any way shape or form to do with his defensive abilities...his name cropped up when i was discussing the attacking threat R Madrid pose, that's all.
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Originally posted by Irish in DC:
<strong>it's plainly obvious to me who is scratching his head a lot syd ... you.

argumentative scousers :rolleyes: there's nothing worse.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I wouldve thought that it would be obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that, when talking about Carlos' 'attacking threat', free kicks, long range shots and fast bursts down the left would immediately, without needing to be mentioned, spring to mind....obviously not your mind.
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Originally posted by passiveman:
<strong>I would wager his free kick in Le Tournoi was a fluke...

Very good defensively mind...</strong><hr></blockquote>

The Tournoi goal was one of his best, but it's not as though he's never scored any other free kick from distance.

Re your 2nd point, he is indeed, i'm happy that someone has the good sense to see that, without allowing their Man Utd bias to interfere with their view.
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Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
<strong>

The Tournoi goal was one of his best, but it's not as though he's never scored any other free kick from distance.

Re your 2nd point, he is indeed, i'm happy that someone has the good sense to see that, without allowing their Man Utd bias to interfere with their view.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I try to avoid being biased, the reason why I stand against those who suggest Owen is a "one-trick pony". Personally I think he is England's great hope and a top notch striker. Liverpool or not, those who knock him will have to eat their words when he scores more goals than Shearer has in the Premiership, something of which I am sure -barring injury...
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Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
<strong>I wouldve thought that it would be obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that, when talking about Carlos' 'attacking threat', free kicks, long range shots and fast bursts down the left would immediately, without needing to be mentioned, spring to mind....obviously not your mind.</strong><hr></blockquote>what a load of bollox, the man mentioned micky, you laughed, more people defended micky and pointed out his attacking prowess then you shifted the carlos attacking threat topic to only free kick taking.

face it dude, you fecked up and your trying so hard to convince us all you meant only free kicks but it aint working.

you're losing the debate so you turn to insults which shows you in your true light i suppose.
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Originally posted by Irish in DC:
<strong>what a load of bollox, the man mentioned micky, you laughed, more people defended micky and pointed out his attacking prowess then you shifted the carlos attacking threat topic to only free kick taking.

face it dude, you fecked up and your trying so hard to convince us all you meant only free kicks but it aint working.

you're losing the debate so you turn to insults which shows you in your true light i suppose.</strong><hr></blockquote>

So when talking about Roberto Carlos and attacking prowess, you DONT immediately associate him with free kicks, long range shots and pacey bursts down the left flank???

What DO you associate him with in terms of attacking then?

Have you actually seen him play???
Your comments suggest not.
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Originally posted by passiveman:
<strong>

I try to avoid being biased, the reason why I stand against those who suggest Owen is a "one-trick pony". Personally I think he is England's great hope and a top notch striker. Liverpool or not, those who knock him will have to eat their words when he scores more goals than Shearer has in the Premiership, something of which I am sure -barring injury...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Good on you.
Yourself and the likes of WeasteDevil and others are examples of decent United fans who call a spade a spade and dont allow their personal feelings toward their team to cloud their overall judgement.
It's good to see.
:)
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Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
<strong>

Good on you.
Yourself and the likes of WeasteDevil and others are examples of decent United fans who call a spade a spade and dont allow their personal feelings toward their team to cloud their overall judgement.
It's good to see.
:) </strong><hr></blockquote>

Mind you I don't ever go near Koptalk, so I'm not sure what you're doing here...


;)
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Originally posted by passiveman:
<strong>

Mind you I don't ever go near Koptalk, so I'm not sure what you're doing here...


;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

I come on here because there are SOME United fans who have a degree of common sense and are worth joining in football discussion.

Both KT & RC are British based sites, but i wouldnt suggest non-brits shouldnt come onto them.

Most United fans dont come onto KT, but as long as theyre respectful and make valid points rather than slag off Liverpool, theyre always welcomed.

Just ask WeasteDevil, who has made a good few thousand appearances on KT...does that make him any less of a United fan?
IMO no, it just tells me that he's not someone who cant see past Manchester United.

You should pop by Passive...you'd be welcomed (after your initiation, of course)
;)
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I'd consider it - but I've only two more months before my girl gets back fron the UAE - after which I will hopefully sort out some work and live in the real world again. This place is doing my head in anyway...

Sorry Niall - it's great really.

;)
 
of course i've seen him play and what have i said in this thread that suggests i haven't syd? eh?

there's no point in discussing anything with you because you just rehash everything you say over and over again - jayzus you are tedious.

it's apparent to me that you simply want to make friends with united fans on a forum who agree with everything you say.

exteremely weird to me that you spend so much time in here when you are a liverpool fan.

are you tired of scouse fellahs then?

btw, for the record, i think carlos is a better attacking lb than micky but hey, what do i know right?
 
Originally posted by passiveman:
<strong>I'd consider it - but I've only two more months before my girl gets back fron the UAE - after which I will hopefully sort out some work and live in the real world again. This place is doing my head in anyway...

Sorry Niall - it's great really.

;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

It's certainly an interesting way in which to pass the time til she returns!

:D
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Originally posted by Irish in DC:
<strong>that's priceless coming from you

:rolleyes: </strong><hr></blockquote>
I try to be respectful, until someone says something that warrants being disrespected..like your 'ancient history' comment...which showed you just cannot accept facts and suggested you're far too biased to see anything objectively or for what it is.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but didnt you brand my comments as 'bollox'?
How respectful is that?

Is the reason that you find it so hard to accept the opinions of a non-United fans as being genuine and not intended to cause offence, the fact that you are rarely portraying those aspects in your posts?
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i don't think barthez will leave, i mean why?
it would be fantastic if thuram came along with blanc if he stays man we might as well have team france. bring on zidane!!
 
Hey Sidney'
Silvestre has created more goals this seasons with more assists than the whole Liverpool squad combined. Are you dull enough to think that against Madrid's non existent defence he won't do like wise?
I don't think so! <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[No No]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
Desperate Scouser! <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />
 
Hey sidney,

Silvestre? <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
Oh Yeah? :mad:
Do YOU know that he has creted more goals this season via assists than the whole Liverpool squad put together. Are you really dull enough to think he could fail to d=create goals against Real Madrid's none existent defence?

If so ...... <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> :p
 
Originally posted by Irish in DC:
<strong>there's no point in discussing anything with you because you just rehash everything you say over and over again - jayzus you are tedious.</strong><hr></blockquote>Kinell Jason, this dipper got you going in two threads? I'm surprised at you, you must have been f'kin bored mate!

See ya Wednesday. <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />
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Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
<strong>

I know what boring means because you're providing so many perfect examples.
<img src="graemlins/yawn.gif" border="0" alt="[Yawn]" /> <img src="graemlins/yawn.gif" border="0" alt="[Yawn]" /> <img src="graemlins/yawn.gif" border="0" alt="[Yawn]" /> <img src="graemlins/yawn.gif" border="0" alt="[Yawn]" /> <img src="graemlins/yawn.gif" border="0" alt="[Yawn]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Insted of being bored why not hop over to Krap-talk and give yourself a laugh(we all do :rolleyes: )
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Originally posted by Davo:
<strong>So where's Bobo going then?

;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

Bobo ? You're talking about you I think. Aren't you the clown of the forum ? <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" />
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Another rumour to bring us back to the thread. heard on Sky today: SAF is peed off because barthez has formed a close friendship with Dwight Yorke who is leading him astray!
SAF has made an approach to Derby for Poon!!!!!
Oh and Roberto Carlos scored another cracker of a free kick yesterday! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
 
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