Barthez to be axed?

[Amir]

Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
<strong>

who is 'he'?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Roberto Carlos.

 

[Dj_Sydney_A]

Originally posted by Amir:
<strong>

Roberto Carlos.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree to an extent but he has proved his ability from long range shots/free kicks in the past and this ability doesnt just go away overnight.
I have yet to see Silvestre score from a 30 yard free kick though, that was my point.

 

[WeasteDevil]

Barthez will be with us for the next few years, there is no doubt about it!

Blanc will play for us next season too, as will Verón!

 

[Amir]

Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
<strong>

I agree to an extent but he has proved his ability from long range shots/free kicks in the past and this ability doesnt just go away overnight.
I have yet to see Silvestre score from a 30 yard free kick though, that was my point.</strong><hr></blockquote>

How many did Silvestre attempt? Anyway, we have Veron and Beckham (well, no Beckham for this season) while Real have Hierro, Raul, Figo, Zidane and Roberto Carlos... but only one player can take a free kick!

 

[Dans]

Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
<strong>

I agree to an extent but he has proved his ability from long range shots/free kicks in the past and this ability doesnt just go away overnight.
I have yet to see Silvestre score from a 30 yard free kick though, that was my point.</strong><hr></blockquote>

A little off topic here syd, I'm surprised you haven't made a better attempt to steer it back on course. Seeing as you haven't though, please do me a favour and sort me out with some stats on Roberto's goal and assist tally this season. Cheers.

 

[Dj_Sydney_A]

Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>

A little off topic here syd, I'm surprised you haven't made a better attempt to steer it back on course. Seeing as you haven't though, please do me a favour and sort me out with some stats on Roberto's goal and assist tally this season. Cheers.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Not my job Dans, sorry.

I was simply referring to the fact that R Carlos is known as a free kick specialist, while Silvestre isnt...there IS a reason for that, you know?

 

[Murt]

Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
<strong>*scenario* Murtle posts messages...everyone else
<img src="graemlins/yawn.gif" border="0" alt="[Yawn]" /> followed by 'zzzzzzzzzzzzzz'</strong><hr></blockquote>

he fumbleda cross in the last minute of an important match,

face it, hes David James only a bit shorter

If you say im boring you must be right, like the way an Italian knows his fine wines a scouser knows what boring means.

 

[Dj_Sydney_A]

Originally posted by Amir:
<strong>

How many did Silvestre attempt? Anyway, we have Veron and Beckham (well, no Beckham for this season) while Real have Hierro, Raul, Figo, Zidane and Roberto Carlos... but only one player can take a free kick!</strong><hr></blockquote>

When Veron & Beckham arent available, the likes of Irwin, Scholes, Giggs or even Keane are possible candidates...Silvestre doesnt attempt many free kicks, you're right...wanna ask yourself why?
It isnt a random decision.

 

[Dans]

I think most United fans would settle for Mickey's crosses in favour of Roberto's very spectacular bi-annual wonder free kicks.

 

[Dj_Sydney_A]

Originally posted by Murt:
<strong>

he fumbleda cross in the last minute of an important match,

face it, hes David James only a bit shorter

If you say im boring you must be right, like the way an Italian knows his fine wines a scouser knows what boring means.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I know what boring means because you're providing so many perfect examples.
<img src="graemlins/yawn.gif" border="0" alt="[Yawn]" /> <img src="graemlins/yawn.gif" border="0" alt="[Yawn]" /> <img src="graemlins/yawn.gif" border="0" alt="[Yawn]" /> <img src="graemlins/yawn.gif" border="0" alt="[Yawn]" /> <img src="graemlins/yawn.gif" border="0" alt="[Yawn]" />

 

[Dj_Sydney_A]

Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>I think most United fans would settle for Mickey's crosses in favour of Roberto's very spectacular bi-annual wonder free kicks.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Wouldnt necessarily disagree...
I was just pointing out that IMO most opposition managers would have more concern about a RC free kick than any MS threat, that was all folks.

 

[Dans]

The guy scores a free kick every two years or so - hardly worth worrying about is it? No, it's not. Ta da.

 

[Dj_Sydney_A]

Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>The guy scores a free kick every two years or so - hardly worth worrying about is it? No, it's not. Ta da.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Remind Barthez of Le Tournoi and ask him that same question.

 

[Dans]

Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
<strong>

Remind Barthez of Le Tournoi and ask him that same question.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Remind me when Le Tournoi was again syd.

 

[Dj_Sydney_A]

Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>

Remind me when Le Tournoi was again syd.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It still happened, which proves Carlos is capable of scoring such free kicks, which WAS my original point.

 

[Dans]

Schmeichel once scored a goal too - in Europe as it happens. Top point there mate,.

 

[Dj_Sydney_A]

Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>Schmeichel once scored a goal too - in Europe as it happens. Top point there mate,.</strong><hr></blockquote>

So RC is only known for ONE great free kick then?

Schmeichel isnt KNOWN as a goalscorer, but Carlos IS recognised as a threat from long range & free kicks.
If you try to deny this, then this conversation is clearly pointless.

 

[Dans]

Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
<strong>Carlos IS recognised as a threat from long range & free kicks.
If you try to deny this, then this conversation is clearly pointless.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Carlos is a threat as much as any other player on the pitch - how many free kicks has he scored from recently? If you fail to recognise the fact that Carlos scored a good free kick once and rarely repeats the trick then I agree the conversation is pointless.

 

[WeasteDevil]

Hierro and Figo are far better free kick takers than Carlos. Fact! Although he did score one tonight against Tenerife, but the same old usual crap - hit it as hard as possible and hope that the defenders jump over it!

 

[Dj_Sydney_A]

Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>

Carlos is a threat as much as any other player on the pitch.</strong><hr></blockquote>

So would you say he is as much as a threat from a 25-30 yard free kick as Silvestre?
Are you THAT biased?

 

[Dj_Sydney_A]

Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>Hierro and Figo are far better free kick takers than Carlos. Fact! Although he did score one tonight against Tenerife, but the same old usual crap - hit it as hard as possible and hope that the defenders jump over it! </strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm not denying this Weastey...but surely you must agree that in free kick situations, Carlos is more of a threat than Michael Silvestre?

 

[Irish in DC]

Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
<strong>It still happened, which proves Carlos is capable of scoring such free kicks, which WAS my original point.</strong><hr></blockquote> <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[No No]" /> no it wasn't

Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
<strong>Against the considerable threat of Morientes, Raul, Guti, Figo, Zidane, Roberto Carlos etc...dya fancy your defence to be strong enough?</strong><hr></blockquote>you never mentioned free kicks until micky was mentioned.

you do talk some shit syd

 

[WeasteDevil]

Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
<strong>

I'm not denying this Weastey...but surely you must agree that in free kick situations, Carlos is more of a threat than Michael Silvestre?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I've never seen Silvestre take a direct on-goal free kick, so I suppose that says it all!

 

[Dans]

Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
<strong>

So would you say he is as much as a threat from a 25-30 yard free kick as Silvestre?
Are you THAT biased?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Silvestre doesn't take free kicks as you well know - how do you want me to compare the two? Why are you even asking me to?

Why are you touting up Carlos' ability so much? He's nothing special. Silvestre on the other hand has been reponsible for many an assist this season.

Why do you persist with your daft line of questioning? I thought you were the self professed man of reason, a man after a good debate? You're foolin me mate.

 

[Dj_Sydney_A]

Originally posted by Irish in DC:
<strong>you never mentioned free kicks until micky was mentioned.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
So why do you think i included Roberto Carlos as a threat if I wasnt talking about free kicks then doofus???

You strike me as being the sort of person who scratches his head and points at aeroplanes.

 

[Gazza]

I don't see any reason to sell Barthez. He had a blip earlier this season, but who doesn't have a bad patch ? He has proved himself time and time again in the past few years, and today his handling of corners against Chelsea was of the highest class.

 

[reddermo]

you see the problem with Barthez is that he is a chain smoker. His mistakes always come at the end of each half when he is gagging for a tab.

 

[Dj_Sydney_A]

Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>

Silvestre doesn't take free kicks as you well know - how do you want me to compare the two? Why are you even asking me to?

Why are you touting up Carlos' ability so much? He's nothing special. Silvestre on the other hand has been reponsible for many an assist this season.

Why do you persist with your daft line of questioning? I thought you were the self professed man of reason, a man after a good debate? You're foolin me mate.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Silvestre doesnt take free kicks - doesnt that tell you anything?

As for R Carlos, your assessment of him as being 'nothing special' is rather inaccurate IMO...along with Maldini and Lizarazu, Carlos has been one of the best left backs of his generation.

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>Hierro and Figo are far better free kick takers than Carlos. Fact! Although he did score one tonight against Tenerife, but the same old usual crap - hit it as hard as possible and hope that the defenders jump over it! </strong><hr></blockquote>

he's well overrated..if it wasn't for THAT freekick in 'Le Tournoi ' he wouldn't have been regarded as a superstar...

 

[Dans]

Originally posted by Amir:
<strong>

Against the considerable threat of RVN, Solskjaer, Veron, Giggs, Scholes, Silvestre, etc, do they fancy their defence to be strong enough?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Amir makes a good point - we are a good attacking team. We have scored numerous goals this season as a result of Mickey's crosses.

Originally posted by Syd:
<strong>
I was just pointing out that IMO most opposition managers would have more concern about a RC free kick than any MS threat, that was all folks.</strong><hr></blockquote>

An MS threat is at the very east eqaul to that of an RC free kick. Is that really something that you can only attribute to bias?

 

[Dj_Sydney_A]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>

he's well overrated..if it wasn't for THAT freekick in 'Le Tournoi ' he wouldn't have been regarded as a superstar...</strong><hr></blockquote>

That free kick DID do a lot for him, but he was recognised as a top player before that.
His pace, drive and technique are brilliant.
A few years ago, his actual ability to defend has been questionable but as someone who watches Spanish football regularly, I'd say that he has improved a great deal as a defender too.

 

[Dans]

Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
<strong>

Silvestre doesnt take free kicks - doesnt that tell you anything?</strong><hr></blockquote>

It tells me that he doesn't take free kicks. Does it tell you something different? Have I missed something here Syd?

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
<strong>


As for R Carlos, your assessment of him as being 'nothing special' is rather inaccurate IMO...along with Maldini and Lizarazu, Carlos has been one of the best left backs of his generation.</strong><hr></blockquote>


He ain't fit enough to lace Maldini boots...nor is he in Lizarazu's class..


Why do you rate him so high?

 

[Nix]

Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
<strong>

Not my job Dans, sorry.

I was simply referring to the fact that R Carlos is known as a free kick specialist, while Silvestre isnt...there IS a reason for that, you know?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Roberto Carlos is shit at taking free-kicks. The only thing he relies on is his power. 19/20 of his freekicks either hit the wall or go miles high into the sky. He would score just as many goals from freekicks (which is not many by the way) if he were blindfolded. Its such a waste of time for him to take freekicks. I admit hes scored some blinders (Le Tournoi 1998), but he screws up too much to be considered a "freekick specialist"

 

[Dj_Sydney_A]

Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>

An MS threat is at the very east eqaul to that of an RC free kick. Is that really something that you can only attribute to bias?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes i agree, but it's not as if Carlos' ONLY threat is a free kick opportunity..he bombs up and down the flanks and his pace is frightening..his technique (like many brazillians) is top notch and he is recognised throughout the world as one of the top left backs of the last few years...dont get me wrong, I'm not slagging off Silvestre, but he isnt in the same league as Roberto Carlos...it's not Silvestre's fault, Carlos is just very good...it doesnt mean MS is crap cos he's not...he just isnt as good as Carlos.

C'mon people, surely you must be more objective than that...next your bias will tell you that Dwight Yorke is better than Christian Vieri or Andrei Shevchenko.

 

[Dj_Sydney_A]

Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>

It tells me that he doesn't take free kicks. Does it tell you something different? Have I missed something here Syd?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ok, i'll try one more time...do you not think that if Silvestre posed a major threat in a free kick situation, he would maybe be given the opportunity to take one from time to time?

Fergie sees him in training and if he'd seen that MS had that ability, he wouldve given him the chance to take a few free kicks in matches...you get my point?

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by Dj_Sydney_A:
<strong>

C'mon people, surely you must be more objective than that...next your bias will tell you that Dwight Yorke is better than Christian Vieri or Andrei Shevchenko.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Dwight Yorke was Class during our 99 campaign... since then he's been AWOL... my mates granny's better than him ATM

 

[Dj_Sydney_A]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>


He ain't fit enough to lace Maldini boots...nor is he in Lizarazu's class..


Why do you rate him so high?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Because I have seen him play enough to be convinced of his ability.

 

[Dj_Sydney_A]

Originally posted by Nix:
<strong>
he screws up too much to be considered a "freekick specialist"</strong><hr></blockquote>

Most of his managers through the course of his careers have had him as their 1st or 2nd choice free kick taker...surely theyre not all stupid..or are they?

 

[Dans]

I'd say that the job of a left bac is to defend first and to bomb down the flanks second. MS defends better than RC who I believe is rightly recognised as a defender who ain't the cleverest at...........defending! MS, has a bad moment or two like most defenders but is a sound defender. RCs defending is not top drawer by any means. Let's move on, to bombing down the flanks as you put it - I wouldn't say that Carlos is any better than MS, nor would I say that Brazilians are that much better than the rest of the worlds players. The 60s, the 70s and the 80s were decades when I think most would agree that there were very good Brazilians around. For me, there has been no more than two Brazilian players in the 90s who would get anywhere near those legends - Romario and Rivaldo. The rest just ain't all that - RC included.