Rooney, Carrick, Nani, Anderson, Giggs
Barcelona vs. Manchester United
- Thread starter VidaRed
- Start date
So excited! Less then 48 hours to go. Although a little irritated that every prediction I have seen so far is Barca to win. Jamie Redknapp on the Sky Bet video talks about the final as if Barca are playing Stoke.
Mark Lawro off the BBC has said a lot of positive things about United.
I haven't seen Barca play that much this season but I just feel like they are being overrated.
La Liga is an infinitely weaker league. The issue I think many teams face when they run up against Barca is the aura they carry and the hype behind them. Teams are often beaten before they even take the field.
I think two years ago we were perhaps a little naive in our approach, I don't think we will repeat that again. When you look at clubs like United and Chelsea, they are gritty, hard working clubs that always believe they can, and will win. Last year Chelsea by rights should have knocked Barca off, and I think this year we will.
Barca is very difficult to play against if you play their game no doubt, but this isn't La Liga. We'd look like an unstoppable force too if we played in that league.
I think the biggest issue we face, isn't the 11 guys facing our 11, it is the crew of guys who will be calling the game. If Barca is able to get away with their farcical theatrics we could be in for a long day. If the game is called the way a proper game of football should be called, I think we will slide by quite comfortably.
La Liga is an infinitely weaker league. The issue I think many teams face when they run up against Barca is the aura they carry and the hype behind them. Teams are often beaten before they even take the field.
I think two years ago we were perhaps a little naive in our approach, I don't think we will repeat that again. When you look at clubs like United and Chelsea, they are gritty, hard working clubs that always believe they can, and will win. Last year Chelsea by rights should have knocked Barca off, and I think this year we will.
Barca is very difficult to play against if you play their game no doubt, but this isn't La Liga. We'd look like an unstoppable force too if we played in that league.
I think the biggest issue we face, isn't the 11 guys facing our 11, it is the crew of guys who will be calling the game. If Barca is able to get away with their farcical theatrics we could be in for a long day. If the game is called the way a proper game of football should be called, I think we will slide by quite comfortably.
We need to stop them playing out from the back. Busquets is key to this, so we'll need Hernandez to close him down when they've got the ball.
I've been bricking it all week, this will be the worst final I've ever seen. Hope the ref has his contacts on.
Vidic playing a PSP 
Yeah, I think the team always plays socom on long journeys.
Hernandez took a woeful one for Chivas so eh....
Hernandez took a woeful one for Chivas so eh....
Definitely something that tends to get lost in the blizzard of tactics threads, even though it's as potent a potential game-changer as any. Then again there's a tendency on here to shove Barca into the "dirty divers" bin - we tend to forget they're perfectly capable of playing good football without all the playacting.
But in the end, what are the odds that you'll get a refereeing crew who's brave/stupid enough to be visibly biased in a game like this. Odds are we'll see an evenly called game.
He doesn't think Barcelona stand a chance and Messi will be shit?
Only if it's cold and raining on Saturday....
Had my final dream last night. We won 3-1. Hernandez, Rooney and Valencia. We got battered in the second half though.
I don't think Berca are a way way better team as some quarters are suggesting.
But I do personally think that they are a better side than us and I don't want to sound pessimistic but I think we'll lose. Probably 2-0 again. Not that expecting a loss and then losing will make it any less shit.
If they turn up, I just don't see how we can win. The thread on 'How to line up against Barca' depresses me even more. They have such good players everywhere.
All my hopes on the players and SAF pulling a masterstroke.
But I do personally think that they are a better side than us and I don't want to sound pessimistic but I think we'll lose. Probably 2-0 again. Not that expecting a loss and then losing will make it any less shit.
If they turn up, I just don't see how we can win. The thread on 'How to line up against Barca' depresses me even more. They have such good players everywhere.
All my hopes on the players and SAF pulling a masterstroke.
Time to throw your logic out the window and don your red specs IL.
Yeah, probably. I'll try your strategy and inebriate myself before the match. I'm just happy we made it to the final. Not all fans can boast of 3 finals in 4 years. Which is why I was surprisingly okay after Rome as well. Its the journey and not the ... etc etc.
Okay, after your 'pep talk,' I'd say 5-1 to United with a Rooney hattrick. 90' O'Shea OG.
i don't think i've ever been so bipolar about a match before.
one minute i think we can smash the cnuts all over, the next minute i feel messi and iniesta are going to slap us 5-0.
one minute i think we can smash the cnuts all over, the next minute i feel messi and iniesta are going to slap us 5-0.
Stomach's turning now. Still 36 hours to go.
Red specs are always on for the match. logic for post match.
Keep having this reoccuring dream of United missing a sitter. Last night it was Rooney through on goal and the night before it was Giggsy.
They were so vivid it seemed real. Not sure what it all means though.
They were so vivid it seemed real. Not sure what it all means though.
Couldn't agree more. If Xavi and Iniesta start playing we are in for a long night.
I have a bad feeling David Villa will definitely get on the score sheet.
I am confused as to we should play the team that started at Schalke or play Fletch for either of Chicha or Giggs. Surely Giggsy cannot cope with all the running and closing down for 90mins. He probably is better of coming off the bench.
I'm quietly confident that we can win this. You just know SAF has the team well prepared, and in a battle of tactics he beats Pep hands down. His experience in these circumstances is untouchable and he wants to put things right. He's paced the team well throughout the run in, whereas Barca play the same lineup week in week out. So the longer the game goes on the more it'll tilt in our favour. They are dangerous there's no denying that, but so are we. The pressure is on them seeing as they're hailed as the shining beacon of light to all ABUs, which do number in the millions
don't underestimate giggsy's stamina.
Yes, probably. Forgetting logic has nothing to do at this stage.
------------------------VDS----------------------
Twin---------Rio----------------Vidic-------Evra
Nani----------Carrick-----------Giggs------Park
----------------------Rooney--------------------
-----------------------Hernandez----------------
Playing Rooney/Hernandez is absolutely key for me. If we play a lone striker and try to contain them as we did in Rome it simply will not work. Play Rooney up front by himself and he will be starved of service and end up dropping deep or getting sent off, leaving us with no attacking outlet.
Playing Hernandez on his own up front would be an option too, but then we would be either benching Rooney or playing him out of position which is equally stupid.
We have to be mindful of the threats Barca pose, but also have faith in our own team and play to our strengths as well. Setting the stall out simply to contain will not work, nor will going reckless all-out-attack, we need to be balanced.
Barcelonas main threats/strengths are;
-Messi
-Villa cutting in from the right
-Alves bombing down the flank
-The vast majority of play goes through the middle as they lack any sort of height.
Their left flank is by far the weakest part of their team, so by playing one of Rafa/Fabio, and Nani in front, it will give us a good attacking outlet that we can use to get at them.
On the other side is Villa (probably, or Pedro) and Alves, so we deploy Park to give an extra defensive man to counter that.
The other benefit this offers is that Nani and Park can switch flanks if needed. If Barca suddenly move Messi to the left wing and Villa goes central, our wingers switch so that Park can support against Messi and Nani can then get forward and exploit the space behind Alves on the left.
Centrally is where most of the play will be though, and in VDS-Rio-Vidic-Carrick we have the strongest defensive unit in the world. We have to have confidence in them to get the job done. Packing the midfield with workhorses will simply end up getting us tired out even if we were to play with 1 up front. Make no mistake, we will not win the midfield battle so we need to deploy intelligently so that they can have the ball in midfield, but as soon as they come near our area, they suddenly have no options available and have to pass back to retain possession.
Except that with Hernandez and Rooney, passing back becomes more difficult. Their defence will already be forced into taking a deep line, otherwise Hernandez's pace will exploit the space left behind them if they push to the halfway line. Similarly, if they drop deep and leave a gap between their defence and midfield, Rooney will get in there and have a field day. All it takes is a long upfield ball behind them and Hernandez is away.
We can beat Barcelona. We just have to go about it the right way. Be confident in our lads. We are champions of England and in the CL final and we have done it on merit, not by luck. Barcelona have a rubbish away record in the CL recently, and we have one of the best. Have faith in our players to get the job done and stick to our natural gameplan, dont try to resort to a Plan F just to counter their threats. We have to be mindful of players like Messi, Villa and Iniesta of course, but we also need to give them something to think about and make them adapt to us.
Twin---------Rio----------------Vidic-------Evra
Nani----------Carrick-----------Giggs------Park
----------------------Rooney--------------------
-----------------------Hernandez----------------
Playing Rooney/Hernandez is absolutely key for me. If we play a lone striker and try to contain them as we did in Rome it simply will not work. Play Rooney up front by himself and he will be starved of service and end up dropping deep or getting sent off, leaving us with no attacking outlet.
Playing Hernandez on his own up front would be an option too, but then we would be either benching Rooney or playing him out of position which is equally stupid.
We have to be mindful of the threats Barca pose, but also have faith in our own team and play to our strengths as well. Setting the stall out simply to contain will not work, nor will going reckless all-out-attack, we need to be balanced.
Barcelonas main threats/strengths are;
-Messi
-Villa cutting in from the right
-Alves bombing down the flank
-The vast majority of play goes through the middle as they lack any sort of height.
Their left flank is by far the weakest part of their team, so by playing one of Rafa/Fabio, and Nani in front, it will give us a good attacking outlet that we can use to get at them.
On the other side is Villa (probably, or Pedro) and Alves, so we deploy Park to give an extra defensive man to counter that.
The other benefit this offers is that Nani and Park can switch flanks if needed. If Barca suddenly move Messi to the left wing and Villa goes central, our wingers switch so that Park can support against Messi and Nani can then get forward and exploit the space behind Alves on the left.
Centrally is where most of the play will be though, and in VDS-Rio-Vidic-Carrick we have the strongest defensive unit in the world. We have to have confidence in them to get the job done. Packing the midfield with workhorses will simply end up getting us tired out even if we were to play with 1 up front. Make no mistake, we will not win the midfield battle so we need to deploy intelligently so that they can have the ball in midfield, but as soon as they come near our area, they suddenly have no options available and have to pass back to retain possession.
Except that with Hernandez and Rooney, passing back becomes more difficult. Their defence will already be forced into taking a deep line, otherwise Hernandez's pace will exploit the space left behind them if they push to the halfway line. Similarly, if they drop deep and leave a gap between their defence and midfield, Rooney will get in there and have a field day. All it takes is a long upfield ball behind them and Hernandez is away.
We can beat Barcelona. We just have to go about it the right way. Be confident in our lads. We are champions of England and in the CL final and we have done it on merit, not by luck. Barcelona have a rubbish away record in the CL recently, and we have one of the best. Have faith in our players to get the job done and stick to our natural gameplan, dont try to resort to a Plan F just to counter their threats. We have to be mindful of players like Messi, Villa and Iniesta of course, but we also need to give them something to think about and make them adapt to us.
Could be one hell of a match.
A/ Lets hope the ref does'nt fking ruin it with some nonsense stuff
B/ Lets hope Barca dont dive around trying to get half the Utd team sent off
C/ Lets hope the star players all put in top performances
Here's a few observations
Utd will have to match the sheer physical input of Barca for 70 minutes - the pressing and moving. With Park Rooney and Hernandez I think they can do that.
Utd imo have no chance if Rooney does not have a very good game. In past finals he for me has not really impacted - This is his biggest chance to date. Given opportunities I think he can really damage the likes of Puyol and create for Hernandez but if he's stuck out on the wing he'll be peripheral.
Messi - I think you've really got to get a grip on him- physically. Frustrate him, he often seems to have space as teams look to worry about chasing Xavi and Iniesta but its imperative imo he gets as little space as possible in the final third or he'll single-handedly destroy you.
Seems Barca are hot favourites but I dont subscribe to that. Utd have quality on the pitch and importantly on the bench too. Valencia could really cause a lot of problems if given the early ball - if he's got a front facing start against the full back he could do serious damage
IF Utd got a goal in front it could be an absolute corker as Barca wont then be happy to just tap it around, they'll have to take some risks and that could be decisive as Utd can break and punish you with lightning effect
This game is closer than the media are saying and I think you can also guarantee Ferguson wont let Utd fizzle out like two years ago.
Barca at the very top of their form should do it but if, as I think, they are prevented from getting to that level I reckon Utd can do 'em.
Logically Barca have enough but I feel in my bones Utd, with the home support, being underdogs, a one off game, will just do this
Just hope its a great game, bout time as a showpiece, we had one.
A/ Lets hope the ref does'nt fking ruin it with some nonsense stuff
B/ Lets hope Barca dont dive around trying to get half the Utd team sent off
C/ Lets hope the star players all put in top performances
Here's a few observations
Utd will have to match the sheer physical input of Barca for 70 minutes - the pressing and moving. With Park Rooney and Hernandez I think they can do that.
Utd imo have no chance if Rooney does not have a very good game. In past finals he for me has not really impacted - This is his biggest chance to date. Given opportunities I think he can really damage the likes of Puyol and create for Hernandez but if he's stuck out on the wing he'll be peripheral.
Messi - I think you've really got to get a grip on him- physically. Frustrate him, he often seems to have space as teams look to worry about chasing Xavi and Iniesta but its imperative imo he gets as little space as possible in the final third or he'll single-handedly destroy you.
Seems Barca are hot favourites but I dont subscribe to that. Utd have quality on the pitch and importantly on the bench too. Valencia could really cause a lot of problems if given the early ball - if he's got a front facing start against the full back he could do serious damage
IF Utd got a goal in front it could be an absolute corker as Barca wont then be happy to just tap it around, they'll have to take some risks and that could be decisive as Utd can break and punish you with lightning effect
This game is closer than the media are saying and I think you can also guarantee Ferguson wont let Utd fizzle out like two years ago.
Barca at the very top of their form should do it but if, as I think, they are prevented from getting to that level I reckon Utd can do 'em.
Logically Barca have enough but I feel in my bones Utd, with the home support, being underdogs, a one off game, will just do this
Just hope its a great game, bout time as a showpiece, we had one.
Those train pictures are great. I don't know why, but it really brings everything down to Earth, seeing them at Macc station and then sitting on a train (I know it's first class, but still - it's not a plane). They look dead relaxed - that can only be good
Why does everyone choose that awful Elbow track as background music? Because of that I can't watch this video with the sound on and thus can't be bothered to watch it in silence.
f365
So we're going to play a system we've never played before (?) in our biggest game of the season. The article makes it seem like its set in stone which is nonsense.
Its most likely just an option we're working on. If we're a goal down with 10 minutes to go and are not creating any chances, then maybe.
Its most likely just an option we're working on. If we're a goal down with 10 minutes to go and are not creating any chances, then maybe.
What a crock of shit!!!
What idiot would believe we'd experiment with a formation for 2 weeks and use it in the biggest game of the season?
What idiot would believe we'd experiment with a formation for 2 weeks and use it in the biggest game of the season?
I'd say Pique and Valdes are key to playing from the back.
Let Rooney worry about Biscuits and Hernandez can close down the central defenders and keeper.
Good post, agree that confidence is everything. We have to go out there and play our game, abeit be willing to conceed a bit of possesion. Barca fear will fear us on the break.
I'm not convinced about a macherano-pique pairing at the back. I think they get a lot of protection due to the fact they are attacking 70% of the time. I think Hernandez has the ability to put doubt in their minds with his playing off the shoulder if we quick enough on the break we can really Barca's defence especially if their fullbacks are foward (you say Alvez is a threat, let's turn that into a weakness). Rooney in the hole distrubuting to Hernandez, Park, Valencia and Giggs will also be crutial. In fact Rooney is the key to the whole thing.
I am confident about this one more so than in 08 or 09. I really think we have the tools to beat Barca and hopefully their hubris will be the downfall of them.
It's going to be a nail biting one though.
140m for Messi. City will buy two
Good post Jopub. See my last post, I agree that Rooney will be the key to a victory.
The bookies are offering as much as 4.00 for a United win. I've snapped up $400 at 3.70.
Not bad odds for a three horse race.
Defence picks itself, so do the strikers. Park starts
Then it gets interesting. First thought is: Park, Carrick, Giggs & Valencia - but Nani is an option. He could leave Hernandez out and bring Scholes in (Carrick to protect back 4)
Anderson - have you all gone insane!!! We cant afford to even think about someone who gives the ball away so often and so cheaply. No way in a million years !! Wouldnt even have him on the bench for this one
Then it gets interesting. First thought is: Park, Carrick, Giggs & Valencia - but Nani is an option. He could leave Hernandez out and bring Scholes in (Carrick to protect back 4)
Anderson - have you all gone insane!!! We cant afford to even think about someone who gives the ball away so often and so cheaply. No way in a million years !! Wouldnt even have him on the bench for this one
Referee Viktor Kassai speaks English and German in addition to his native Hungarian tongue. No Spanish. Advantage? #clutchingatstraws
Great article this: Champions League final: Gerard Piqué is back, the former Manchester United man with Barcelona in his DNA | Football | The Guardian by Sid Lowe
Gerard Piqué is back at Camp Nou, the man with Barcelona in his DNA
The 22-year-old defender has come of age since leaving Manchester United for his boyhood club
The following correction was printed in the Guardian's Corrections and clarifications column, Thursday 28 May 2009
The piece below about Barcelona's Gerard Piqué said that the footballer could be drawing closer "to a unique record: no player has won successive European Cups with different teams". In reality, the Portuguese midfielder (and later Queens Park Rangers coach) Paulo Sousa achieved this with Juventus in 1996 and Borussia Dortmund in 1997. [See also footnote.]
Thieves had stolen Gerard Piqué's satellite dish four times before Greater Manchester police clicked that the people putting them up were the same people taking them down again. For the young Manchester United signing it was a drama – yet another link to Barcelona stolen from him, a lifeline severed for someone growing ever more homesick. After all, he says: "I was at Manchester United and, sure, it was fantastic, but I was very young, I wasn't playing, I was stuck in the house, I missed my family and it was eating away at my head."
Monday-night poker with Nemanja Vidic, Wayne Rooney, Rio Ferdinand and Wes Brown was not enough; nor were the running battles with his neighbour Patrice Evra or the support of Michael *Carrick, whom he describes as "the perfect gentle*man". There was only one thing for it. When the Barcelona president Joan Laporta bumped into Piqué's mother and he asked how the young man was doing in England, the reply said it all: "Desperate to come back".
When Piqué had joined United at 17 Laporta was furious, vowing that he would never return. Four years later, the wound had healed. It was time to bring the defender home.
A mistake against Bolton, when Piqué allowed Nicolas Anelka to score, hardly helped, but it was flirting with his former club that brought his fleeting Old Trafford career to a premature end. The second that Ferguson got wind of discussions, Piqué disappeared from the United team. Missing last season's Champions League semi-final against Barcelona, despite *Vidic's absence, was particularly hurtful. The Scot threatened to prevent his departure but relented and, delighted, Piqué eventually rejoined Barca for £5m.
If United, blessed with Ferdinand and Vidic, have barely missed him, it has proven a bargain for the Catalans. At 22 and with Rafael Márquez, Gabriel Milito, Carles Puyol and Martín Cáceres ahead of him, Piqué was not expected to be a central figure – not yet, at least. But after a season that he describes as being "better than I dared imagine"‚ he appears to be accelerating towards superstardom.
Piqué has everything to be the perfect cult commodity. The son of a wealthy Catalan family, his father is a lawyer, his mother the director of a prestigious *spinal injuries institute. He also has been a Barca soci (member) since the day he was born. He is tall, blue-eyed and handsome, impeccably turned out, intelligent and sharp, with a hint of mischief about him. One-liners punctuate his appearances before the press, practical jokes his presence in the dressing room. He may have been back at Barcelona for less than 12 months but already Piqué is a leader. A ring-leader.
"Piqué," says one insider, "has got 'future captain' written all over him." In the final weeks in particular he has become indispensable, playing more Champions League minutes than anyone else and earning an international call-up at the Santiago Bernabéu. He scored too, and repeated the feat upon returning there against Real Madrid, grabbing the sixth in Barcelona's biggest-ever victory over their bitter rivals as he strode out to start and finish a 70-yard move.
That night he won the ball nine times without committing a single foul, but it is Piqué's ability to carry the ball forward that has really set him apart over the past month, during which time he has gone from erratic kid to "The New Kaiser", with one Catalan newspaper dubbing him "Piquénbauer". As time slipped agonisingly away at Stamford Bridge, it was Piqué who constantly began attacks; and in the Copa del Rey final, it was Piqué who invariably set Barcelona on their way.
"At no other team does the centre-back attack like here," he says, reflecting the message drummed into him since he was a kid. "I was here for eight years before joining United. Barca is in my DNA. I've been a Barcelona fan since I was born, I grew up with Barcelona and my entire family are Barcelona fans."
Piqué's grandfather was even a club director, and one day he invited Barcelona's coach Louis van Gaal to lunch. "This," he said, introducing the young Gerard, "is my grandson – a centre-back for Barcelona's youth team." Van Gaal looked at Piqué and, without warning, pushed him over. Towering above the 14- year-old, he barked: "You're too weak to be a Barcelona defender."
He was probably right. But for United, Piqué's presence in Wednesday's Champions League final would be unthinkable. "United made me a footballer," Piqué admits. Not that the Old Trafford regime was always perfect. "Every fortnight United measured our body fat and you'd be amazed how many top players practically broke the machine because their diet was beer and burgers," he says with a laugh. "And the gaffer spoke a very Scottish kind of English that might as well have been Chinese."
Roy Keane, meanwhile, terrified him. On one occasion, Piqué's mobile started vibrating in the dressing room. Keane went ballistic, ripping clothes from their pegs, rummaging in pockets, screaming that he would kill the man responsible. Luckily, it rang off before Keane reached Piqué's trousers. A relieved man, he told friends he had never felt closer to death.
As the club prepares to face United, Piqué admits that the text messages with former team-mates have dried up, but he is still in a privileged position. "I know all of Cristiano Ronaldo's tricks," he says. "Mind you," he admits, "that's no guarantee. Ronaldo is even more complete than Messi. He is quick, strong, good in the area and has a great shot. And, just like Messi, even if you know every move, he always has one up his sleeve. If he scores, he could leave me looking like an idiot."
Two months ago, it would have looked like an uneven battle; not so now. And if Piqué can control his former team-mates, Barcelona will have gained a major advantage. He will also draw closer to a unique record: no player has won successive European Cups with different teams.
"Last season I was in the stands, this year I'm playing – I feel much more part of it," Piqué says. "Besides, while I'm very grateful to United, there's no comparison. This time, I will be playing for my real team. Ask any fan wearing a Barca shirt in Rome what they're feeling and I'll be feeling exactly the same. I'll be doing it for them. This time, I'll be doing it for Barcelona. My Barcelona."
• 8 June 2009: Since publication of the 29 May 2009 correction above, a further example of a two-club winning footballer in successive years has been drawn to our attention. Marcel Desailly was a Champions League winner with Marseille in 1993, and with Milan in 1994.
