Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!

Serie A was best league up until 2003 and it's not even up for debate.
 
totaalvoetbal said:
It's a major problem with British football. This is the reason England is always a decade to 20 years behind in every tactical implementation. They literally don't even know how to implement simple drills to enact what they want on the pitch. Even the greatest "manager", Sir Alex Ferguson, cannot even compare to an u-15 coach in Germany in this present day in terms of actually coaching and implementing an identity in a team because he simply left the actual training to others from the continent. It's telling that Manchester United were a disgrace in Europe till Carlos Queiroz started implementing certain things as his assistant.

The fact that the holding midfield role is called the "Makélélé Role" simply because Jose Mourinho played a 433, when everyone in England was used to the basic 442 scheme, tells you how far behind they are. The only reason the premier league is as strong as it is today is because of foreign coaches importing their ideas into the league and foreign players being able to understand these schemes.

That is why they always revert to the passion and hard work narrative in their commentary. They never talk about body positioning, how they receive passes, why players are positioned in a certain way which makes them more likely to miss interceptions. Whenever I see anyone use the word "tiki taka", I simply shake my head.

Even till this day, they still go on about the false 9, something that was done in Hungary in the 50s, Netherlands in the 70s, Spain in the 70s and 90s and Italy in the 2000s. Even the inverted full backs Guardiola used in Bayern and then Manchester City, Johan Cruijff already did all this in the 90s!
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Some good points in here, but regarding the bolded: a team's identity isn't just limited to their shape/structure on the field.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Some good points in here, but regarding the bolded: a team's identity isn't just limited to their shape/structure on the field.
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I think he means in straight footballing terms, and not mentality and mental strength.
 
Hammondo said:
I think he means in straight footballing terms, and not mentality and mental strength.
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Even in straight footballing terms, it's extremely hyperbolic.

I don't think SAF was a tactical visionary so to say, but to limit him tactically as purely a 'passion merchant' is ludicrous.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Even in straight footballing terms, it's extremely hyperbolic.

I don't think SAF was a tactical visionary so to say, but to limit him tactically as purely a 'passion merchant' is ludicrous.
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Very true, though I am not sure he was meaning that exactly.
 
totaalvoetbal said:
It's telling that Manchester United were a disgrace in Europe till Carlos Queiroz started implementing certain things as his assistant.
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This isn't true.

96/97 - Champions League semi final
97/98 - Champions League quarter final
98/99 - Champions League winner
99/00 - Champions League Quarter final
00/01 - Champions League Quarter Final
01/02 - Champions League Semi Final

Queiroz joins

02/03 - Champions League Quarter final

Quieroz leaves

03/04 - Champions League Round of 16
04/05 - Champions League group stage

Quieroz comes back

05/06 - Champions League group stage
06/07 - Champions League semi final
07/08 - Champions League winner

Quieroz leaves

I tend to think that our successful period from 07/08 - 10/11 was more to do with Ronaldo blossoming and us signing some excellent players backed up by the Co92 core and much less to do CQ's coaching.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Some good points in here, but regarding the bolded: a team's identity isn't just limited to their shape/structure on the field.
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Not really, conflating pundits with coaches makes no sense when reflecting on the current state of British football.

Hammondo said:
I think he means in straight footballing terms, and not mentality and mental strength.
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Even so, it's a really bad point. Coaching and implementing an identity on an U15 team is a completely different scenario to doing it with an adult side, let alone one filled with elite footballers at the top of world football. After you've done your C and B licenses you will have a clear idea on how you want your side to play, and how you will approach training both from a tactical viewpoint and also developmentally, both holistically and individually. This is something that virtually anyone can accomplish with the right training and guidance. To then apply this to senior football is a completely different matter, and as I said earlier significantly more so if we're talking at an elite level. It's not enough to focus on the internal as you will have sides of top flight footballers and coaches doing their best to negate you and your side's approach. You have to have incredible levels of insight and understanding to navigate this, with a thorough understanding of how your team functions on the pitch both as individuals and as part of a collective. It's not something that most people can do.

The idea that Alex Ferguson can not compare to an U15 coach in Germany makes in this scenario makes no sense.
 
Cascarino said:
Not really, conflating pundits with coaches makes no sense when reflecting on the current state of British football.



Even so, it's a really bad point. Coaching and implementing an identity on an U15 team is a completely different scenario to doing it with an adult side, let alone one filled with elite footballers at the top of world football. After you've done your C and B licenses you will have a clear idea on how you want your side to play, and how you will approach training both from a tactical viewpoint and also developmentally, both holistically and individually. This is something that virtually anyone can accomplish with the right training and guidance. To then apply this to senior football is a completely different matter, and as I said earlier significantly more so if we're talking at an elite level. It's not enough to focus on the internal as you will have sides of top flight footballers and coaches doing their best to negate you and your side's approach. You have to have incredible levels of insight and understanding to navigate this, with a thorough understanding of how your team functions on the pitch both as individuals and as part of a collective. It's not something that most people can do.

The idea that Alex Ferguson can not compare to an U15 coach in Germany makes in this scenario makes no sense.
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All fair enough, I was not agreeing with him, just trying to make things clearer.
 
Hammondo said:
All fair enough, I was not agreeing with him, just trying to make things clearer.
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Yeah sorry, directed the post at you when I didn't want to requote him when he hasn't replied for a couple days and it was an easy in.

I can understand where the poster is coming from in that Ferguson was someone who heavily delegated coaching sessions, but they've took the wrong taekaway from that imo.
 
Cascarino said:
Yeah sorry, directed the post at you when I didn't want to requote him when he hasn't replied for a couple days and it was an easy in.

I can understand where the poster is coming from in that Ferguson was someone who heavily delegated coaching sessions, but they've took the wrong taekaway from that imo.
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I honestly cannot imagine how complicated his job was, I fully understand why other nations have more but simpler roles.
 
Hammondo said:
I honestly cannot imagine how complicated his job was, I fully understand why other nations have more but simpler roles.
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Yeah agreed. I think it was Zehner who was talking about the idea of the autocratic British manager being pretty rare in other places, and it makes a lot of sense. Putting so much of the responsibility on an individual doesn't make much sense imo, and unless you have an individual like Ferguson who has a range of different qualities, and I guess the sheer strength of will to spearhead such an organisation, it makes more sense to move to a collective approach as even most clubs over here have.
 
He's been phenomenal since his arrival, all the talk about if the players can do it under pressure in a big game has now gone out of the window. When the players have clarity on how they have to play, it already gives them confidence.
Xavi could've had a lot of excuses, post Messi hangover, taking the job mid season, not having funds for transfers, there's none of that BS. He takes over and as someone mentioned in this thread, took like 3 mins to make the team play cohesive football, even with injuries in the beginning.

Looking forward to see how this young team develops. Especially Pedri and Gavi, they're exceptional talents.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
This isn't true.

96/97 - Champions League semi final
97/98 - Champions League quarter final
98/99 - Champions League winner
99/00 - Champions League Quarter final
00/01 - Champions League Quarter Final
01/02 - Champions League Semi Final

Queiroz joins

02/03 - Champions League Quarter final

Quieroz leaves

03/04 - Champions League Round of 16
04/05 - Champions League group stage

Quieroz comes back

05/06 - Champions League group stage
06/07 - Champions League semi final
07/08 - Champions League winner

Quieroz leaves

I tend to think that our successful period from 07/08 - 10/11 was more to do with Ronaldo blossoming and us signing some excellent players backed up by the Co92 core and much less to do CQ's coaching.
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Iirc Queiroz was only away in 2003/04.
We were a mess in 2002/03 with him against RM (admittedly RM had a great team with many world class players), and in 2004/05 we reached the last 16 but went out to Milan.
Then 2005/06 we went out in an easy group, came last, with Queiroz.

2002/03 and 2005/06 were bad in Europe.

The semi final exit in 2006/07 against Milan I can understand. Yes we were tactically naive and open, but we also had injuries to key players and were extremely tired physically and mentally. Trying to get the title back from prime Mourinho and Chelsea can do this to you.
 
Bosnian_fan said:
Serie A was best league up until 2003 and it's not even up for debate.
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I would say before the Zidane and R9 moved to Spain Serie A was the best league. I couldn't remember exactly which year anymore. Since then the best player in that league moved out one by one. From Veron, Shevchenko, Crespo, Mutu to Kaka & Ibra, they all left Serie A.
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
I would say before the Zidane and R9 moved to Spain Serie A was the best league. I couldn't remember exactly which year anymore. Since then the best player in that league moved out one by one. From Veron, Shevchenko, Crespo, Mutu to Kaka & Ibra, they all left Serie A.
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Italian economic crisis hit Serie A very hard in 2008, plus Calciopoli made it worse.
 
He is doing a very good job but also credit to the board for actually backing xavi in the winter transfer window. Pretty obvious they needed fresh faces who can bring breath of fresh air. Unlike our club who's board tells our fan you cannot buy in January.
 
AshRK said:
He is doing a very good job but also credit to the board for actually backing xavi in the winter transfer window. Pretty obvious they needed fresh faces who can bring breath of fresh air. Unlike our club who's board tells our fan you cannot buy in January.
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Would love to know how they are affording all these agent fees for those “free” transfers. Can’t imagine it’ll look good if they don’t win anything.
 
Yeah so it seems the Barcelona supporters in here who claimed the club was now financially sound or a bit over-optimistic :

 
They are doing an irresponsible effort in order to keep the team competitive: despite the lack of money they are going to splash more cash and still not having a team strong enough to be a favourite to win titles.
They should had focus on reducing the large ammount of loanees they have to begin.
 
Oly Francis said:
Yeah so it seems the Barcelona supporters in here who claimed the club was now financially sound or a bit over-optimistic :

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So they’re in dire straits but still plan to go ahead it’s revamping the stadium? Why do I find it hard to believe that they are indeed in as much trouble as they keep claiming?
 
Devil_forever said:
So they’re in dire straits but still plan to go ahead it’s revamping the stadium? Why do I find it hard to believe that they are indeed in as much trouble as they keep claiming?
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What is not being named in the story (don't expect the Daily Mail to do groundbreaking journalism) is that the seeds are being sowed for Barsa to not be fully owned by it's members. Lot's of local media already talking about and I think Laporta might bring up something in their next assembly. He will play the card that is falling massively behind Real Madrid in financial terms and the consequences thereof.
I think a slice of the pie that is Barcelona will be very interesting for more than a couple of big money investors.
 
They're talking about selling future revenue, will be crippled for years.

That without a further economic downturn.

Expect more trouble over the next few years.
 
André Dominguez said:
They are doing an irresponsible effort in order to keep the team competitive: despite the lack of money they are going to splash more cash and still not having a team strong enough to be a favourite to win titles.
They should had focus on reducing the large ammount of loanees they have to begin.
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If you alllow your club to be shite for too long it gets harder to be atractive to good players and therefore it takes even longer to bounce back. Ac Milan is a good example of that. It took them 10 years.
Despite how bad our economy has been, a player like Lewandovsky still wants to play for us right now. But that won't be the case if we are not competitive for Another 3 or 4 seasons.
The only reason a team that haven't won a league in 9 years like United is still able to get some top players is because of the big money they throw at players. We don't have that, so we have to remain competitive if we don't want to disappear for a decade or so.
 
Mb194dc said:
They're talking about selling future revenue, will be crippled for years.
That without a further economic downturn.
Expect more trouble over the next few years.
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over the next few years, barca will reduce its 560m salary by 160m to 400/year. Thats the plan. When Bartomeu's atrociously overpaid contracts run out, barca's finance will be in order again. All new contract extensions have the new Laporta limit already. The more barto contracts running out, or his players are being sold, the less trouble barca will have.
 
Devil_forever said:
Link to the first line? Selling future revenue?
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Barcelona is looking to sell 25% of the television rights in LaLiga over a period of about 20 years. That's about €40M a year.
Barcelona among all competitions receives about €280M.

The other section is selling 49% of BLM, It is not known the number of years or if there will be a buyback clause.
According to Romeu they already have an offer of €275M.

The easiest thing was to accept CVC and LaLiga's offer for the TV rights. Why do they say no again?

It was the easiest because it allowed us to end the patrimonial imbalance, because between the two offers of CVC, that of LaLiga Impulso and another that we had negotiated separately were 540 million. Two offers that were binding. We would have done in one year what we planned to do in five. We would have stood up in the Assembly and triumphed.
But it was leaving the club worse than we received it. Why do we have to pay debt above 10% when we have obtained debt at an interest below 2%?
 
MexicanCowboy said:
If you alllow your club to be shite for too long it gets harder to be atractive to good players and therefore it takes even longer to bounce back. Ac Milan is a good example of that. It took them 10 years.
Despite how bad our economy has been, a player like Lewandovsky still wants to play for us right now. But that won't be the case if we are not competitive for Another 3 or 4 seasons.
The only reason a team that haven't won a league in 9 years like United is still able to get some top players is because of the big money they throw at players. We don't have that, so we have to remain competitive if we don't want to disappear for a decade or so.
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But as things go right now, you are still dropping the club level, still paying high wages, but on the other hand keeping it at "with a good string of results they might get something out of the season" level.
It might backfire if you fail to get 2nd position in La Liga minimum and 1/4 finals of Champions League minimum.
 
André Dominguez said:
But as things go right now, you are still dropping the club level, still paying high wages, but on the other hand keeping it at "with a good string of results they might get something out of the season" level.
It might backfire if you fail to get 2nd position in La Liga minimum and 1/4 finals of Champions League minimum.
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Barcelona are lowering the wage bill, but that takes time because there are signed contracts and in some cases long-term
In my opinion they did quite well last year in the transfer markets.

They signed free players, F. Torres is the exception, and they sold and did not renew players with high salaries, other players lowered their salary.
In addition, key players were renewed (Pedri, Araujo, Fati)
 
Niemans said:
Barcelona are lowering the wage bill, but that takes time because there are signed contracts and in some cases long-term
In my opinion they did quite well last year in the transfer markets.

They signed free players, F. Torres is the exception, and they sold and did not renew players with high salaries, other players lowered their salary.
In addition, key players were renewed (Pedri, Araujo, Fati)
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It’s a decline, albeit one from a very high starting position. But as declines go (and I think they had no choice here) I think it’s been pretty well managed and importantly they’ve kept a few very experienced old heads and have a few very promising numbers. I don’t see them winning the CL in the next couple of years but it could have been a lot worse.
 
André Dominguez said:
But as things go right now, you are still dropping the club level, still paying high wages, but on the other hand keeping it at "with a good string of results they might get something out of the season" level.
It might backfire if you fail to get 2nd position in La Liga minimum and 1/4 finals of Champions League minimum.
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We had a wage bill of 700 million last season and we have reduced it to 540. Still too High but it's not like you can simply kick out players who don't want to leave. They have huge contracts signed by that moron Bartomeu and some of the players have refused to leave because they know nobody will pay them even half of that. Getting rid of Umtiti, Neto, Lenglet, Dembele, Braithwaite, Pjanic (who was loaned but Barca had to pay like 60% of the salary) Riqui Puig and Mingueza (these last two don't earn that much but don't play anyway) will get us close to a healthy wage bill IMO. But like I said, it won't be easy to get rid of them except for Dembele, who is already out, and the two youngsters.
 
MexicanCowboy said:
We had a wage bill of 700 million last season and we have reduced it to 540. Still too High but it's not like you can simply kick out players who don't want to leave. They have huge contracts signed by that moron Bartomeu and some of the players have refused to leave because they know nobody will pay them even half of that. Getting rid of Umtiti, Neto, Lenglet, Dembele, Braithwaite, Pjanic (who was loaned but Barca had to pay like 60% of the salary) Riqui Puig and Mingueza (these last two don't earn that much but don't play anyway) will get us close to a healthy wage bill IMO. But like I said, it won't be easy to get rid of them except for Dembele, who is already out, and the two youngsters.
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It's obviously really hard. On top of that Barcelona is VERY lucky to have a very good young generation because if you take the same team without Pedri, Gavi, Nico or Araujo, that are fairly cheap compared to their performances, you have a total collapse.

The thing is, some Barcelona fans deserve a bit of taunting because they thought Laporta fixed almost everything in one summer, that everything was fine, that Haaland was on the way etc. No, Barcelona is still in a dire condition and Laporta is human and makes mistakes as well (Torres being his biggest in my opinion), it won't be easy to fix the financial mess Bartomeu put them in.
 
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