Most United players seem similar to Keane rather than Xavi.
Lots of focus on passion little actual talk of tactics.
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Most United players seem similar to Keane rather than Xavi.
Lots of focus on passion little actual talk of tactics.
I do not like this signing very much because he would take minutes away from Gavi, Nico and especially from P. Torre. This guy has a lot of quality and only 19 years.
Possession football works? Who knew?
I think that rings true for the majority in Britain. It's a cultural thing.
Yea but the teams who move away from that tend to do better.
Exactly. Pep didn't win titles after titles just by focusing on passion and etc.
English fans who think all those fancy passing tiki-taka are a waste of time.
It frustrates me so much. I hope xavi does well tbh.
No doubt about it.
It's a major problem with British football. This is the reason England is always a decade to 20 years behind in every tactical implementation. They literally don't even know how to implement simple drills to enact what they want on the pitch. Even the greatest "manager", Sir Alex Ferguson, cannot even compare to an u-15 coach in Germany in this present day in terms of actually coaching and implementing an identity in a team because he simply left the actual training to others from the continent. It's telling that Manchester United were a disgrace in Europe till Carlos Queiroz started implementing certain things as his assistant.
The fact that the holding midfield role is called the "Makélélé Role" simply because Jose Mourinho played a 433, when everyone in England was used to the basic 442 scheme, tells you how far behind they are. The only reason the premier league is as strong as it is today is because of foreign coaches importing their ideas into the league and foreign players being able to understand these schemes.
That is why they always revert to the passion and hard work narrative in their commentary. They never talk about body positioning, how they receive passes, why players are positioned in a certain way which makes them more likely to miss interceptions. Whenever I see anyone use the word "tiki taka", I simply shake my head.
Even till this day, they still go on about the false 9, something that was done in Hungary in the 50s, Netherlands in the 70s, Spain in the 70s and 90s and Italy in the 2000s. Even the inverted full backs Guardiola used in Bayern and then Manchester City, Johan Cruijff already did all this in the 90s!
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I agree unfortunetly. On the Chelsea forum I use an overwhemingly popular opinion is that we should replace Jorginho with Declan Rice, frustrates the hell out of me.
Spot on. Almost all English managers and pundits are all "Pashun Merchants".
I don’t get it. Didn’t this guy come in four months ago with Barca 12 points behind Real Madrid.
I’m hearing Barca are back but they’re still 12 points behind Real Madrid
I’m hearing Barca are back but they’re still 12 points behind Real Madrid
I don’t get it. Didn’t this guy come in four months ago with Barca 12 points behind Real Madrid.
I’m hearing Barca are back but they’re still 12 points behind Real Madrid
This is the top 10 since Xavi took over:
1. Real Madrid – 17 games, 39 points, +19 GD
2. Barcelona – 16 games, 37 points, +23 GD
3. Atletico Madrid – 17 games, 31 points, +19 GD
4. Villarreal – 17 games, 30 points, +16 GD
5. Sevilla – 17 games, 30 points, +11 GD
6. Real Betis – 16 games, 29 points, +13 GD
7. Celta Vigo – 16 games, 24 points, +5 GD
8. Getafe – 16 games, 23 points, +7 GD
9. Athletic Bilbao – 17 games, 23 points, +2 GD
10. Valencia – 16 games, 23 points, -2 GD
Let's not forget the shaky start they had too
Heard of a little thing called the treble?
I don’t get it. Didn’t this guy come in four months ago with Barca 12 points behind Real Madrid.
I’m hearing Barca are back but they’re still 12 points behind Real Madrid
I don't know exactly how many points Barcelona were under Madrid.
But there was a plague of injuries and also the most important is to see how the team works right now.
The improvement is evident and the team plays very good football.
I don’t get it. Didn’t this guy come in four months ago with Barca 12 points behind Real Madrid.
I’m hearing Barca are back but they’re still 12 points behind Real Madrid
That's actually good because it means the title favorites hadn't gained any more points than him.
It would be great if united could find their xavi/pep from a past legend but the philosophy united players went through under fergie does not lend well to the current footballing landscape compared to the philosophy and teachings pep/xavi had gone through at Barca, you only have to see that with neville, keane, ole who put massive empathise on passion, hardwork, express yourself, individual quality, the United way etc.. and very little in regards to actual subtle tactical nuances.
When the manager's authority is restored and player power curtailed then half the problems are already solved.
Meanwhile in our swamp sharks are waiting for the next manager.
Meanwhile in our swamp sharks are waiting for the next manager.
I suspect you have a point, and I suspect it’s greatly exaggerated and generalized. You make it sound as if standards of coaching is a National attribute, and not something that comes in waves in all countries. How do you explain the dominance of English teams from 1975-1985, after the development of total football in The Netherlands and the development of German football in the same period?
Italian football was the tactical reference point after English teams were affected by the consequences of the Heysel tragedy, and during the 90’s, Van Gaal and Spanish football rose in terms of football development, yet Marcelo Lippi acknowledged how Alex Ferguson and his assistant Brian Kidd and later Steve McClaren were of top European quality in understanding of football and coaching as United came from the fourth/fifth best league to overtake Juventus and the Italian teams during the period from 95-2000, with a CL win and two tight SF exits and QF exits against the CL winners threenor four times. How do you explain that? All this before the influence from foreign coaches and players became prominent.
Haha, I don’t know about the rest, but I actually prefer being a disgrace by winning the treble than playing some so called modern European game like we did in 2005/06 with Queiroz or in 2015/16 with LvG by not even getting out of an easy CL group. But maybe that’s just me.
On point. Espect angry reactions though
It would have been on point a decade or two ago. The standard of youth coaching in the UK is great and has been for some time. Even here in Wales the coaching courses are highly regarded.
But the prominent faces who you see explaining football as pundits nowadays are exactly the ones who were footballing symbols two or three decades ago. And they clearly dismiss modern ideas. Say your average Solskjaer or Keane for example. They have won differently, they have seen it with their eyes that it is possible to win with passion and hard work (that's their perception of what was happening), and they simply dismiss experience of others. Why wouldn't they, when they themselves experienced first hand what winning requires?
His comments regarding punditry are fine, but he extrapolated that into the coaching as a whole, which is nonsense and painfully outdated.
It's amusing how Sir Alex being a manager is in quotes when he was a complete manager unlike your modern coaches to only work on the training pitch and do little else relying on the massive club structures to do all the dirty work for them. That's actually quite the luxury the likes of Klopp, Pep and Conte have. Klopp even gets transfers wrong himself but due to the club structure their picks end up being big successes which he could have potentially ruined.
The idea of comparing him to a U15, framed with “cannot compare” is just patently false, I’m confused by his Queiroz point. He knows he wasn’t there for the 99 treble right? Or his exploits with Aberdeen.
Obviously a U15 coach is the true definition of a manager given he has feck all to actually manage as opposed to someone who created an empire of constant success.
I think he is talking about in general terms, not just 90s United.
United was the only english team doing OK in Europe during the 90s, the likes of Newcastle, Blackburn, and Leeds were rubbish in Europe, but i doubt that was 100% due to systems or coaching, more like they just didn't have the quality of Inter, Juventus,Milan, Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia, Bayern, Dortmund, Marseille, etc.
90s PL in terms of money and quality was well behind Serie A and La Liga, and in UEFA coefficient it was behind Ligue 1 and Bundesliga as well.
But i suspect that was more due to quality rather than just coaching and systems.
Even though is undeniable that PL benefited from foreign managers later in the mid 2000s, as i highly doubt PL would dominate in modern era using just british managers.
Depends on which coaches you are talking about. Ole and the rest of United's former players are still miles behind their peers.
Aye but you can do that with any league, taking one example and using that as a metric for the entire system. The standard of coaching in the league is very high, a lot of effort has been put into modernising and facilitating the development of young players in recent times. You only have to look at the incredible talent that the clubs have been pumping out.
The only problem with the current set up is the lack of certified coaches, but they are attempting to rectify this. The standard as a whole is very high.
Indeed
Modern football also offers more technology and better facilities.
Imagine being an scout during the 80s-90s compared to now, when you just hire many guys across different countries and be in contact with them all the time through internet.
You probably didn't even realize it but I believe this post is pretty ignorant. What you describe as "modern coaches" is only modern in the EPL. In other big football nations, manager and coach were always separate entities. Uli Hoeneß for instance became the Bundesliga's youngest manager (official title) ever in 1979 and he never even remotely did anything that could be described as coaching. It's only in England that the "manager" is this big personality who brings in players and is also responsible for the team selection and tactics. There have never been anything like the British manager role anywhere else.
And like it or not, this shows in the football culture. The EPL was always more about individual quality and less about tactics. Only in recent years, the EPL caught up. I for one found the EPL vastly uninteresting before Guardiola, Klopp, etc. arrived because the football looked so chaotic and one dimensional. I didn't enjoy watching the Premier League at all. It was often like a game of handball, without midfield pressing or counter pressing or patience in the build up, etc.
I for one find this shocking.
Why? It simply wasn't the pinnacle of football for me. That was always La Liga. I always thought the EPL was too much about power and athleticism and not enough about football IQ and technique. That has changed these days.
I mean it's patently incorrect and probably just highlights that you didn't watch any, and that your pedantic views kept you from some excellent football over the years, but your arrogant posts are pretty standard now, so whatever.
Unsurprisingly you can generally tell the style of manager a player will be by looking at the managers they functioned under. All of the United players from the glory days were used to being the big boys in the league with one of the greatest man managers ever. They were not playing in a highly tactical league and United were basically never outfought or outthought on the pitch in domestic games.
I remember quite vividly though that whenever we played in Europe at the sharp end of the CL United were almost always second best when it came to dictating games and taking the game by the scruff of the neck. We would suddenly pack the midfield with workmanlike players who would do as they were told and we were almost always playing like the underdog.
Thats why the likes of Scholes, Neville etc don't seem to realise that football is a different game to when they played. The top teams don't just have the best players, they have the best coaching, the best tactics and the players work the hardest too. City and Liverpool don't just want it more than United, they are simply better in every facet of the game. United could put in the same effort and still come up massively short because desire is only a piece of the puzzle. If your tactics, coaching and understanding of the game isn't top notch then you will be beated by teams where those attributes are present.
Ole was nothing but a passion merchant and it kind of worked for about 3 months after Mourinho left and then it became very apparent that he didn't offer anything in the other huge areas of modern football and it was just a waiting game until the passion wasn't there anymore and everything went to shit.
There is a reason why the likes of Guardiola are more likely to be top managers. They have a completely different experience of the game and what is required at the top level. Xavi is far more likely to have that than most ex-english players.
I remember quite vividly though that whenever we played in Europe at the sharp end of the CL United were almost always second best when it came to dictating games and taking the game by the scruff of the neck. We would suddenly pack the midfield with workmanlike players who would do as they were told and we were almost always playing like the underdog.
Thats why the likes of Scholes, Neville etc don't seem to realise that football is a different game to when they played. The top teams don't just have the best players, they have the best coaching, the best tactics and the players work the hardest too. City and Liverpool don't just want it more than United, they are simply better in every facet of the game. United could put in the same effort and still come up massively short because desire is only a piece of the puzzle. If your tactics, coaching and understanding of the game isn't top notch then you will be beated by teams where those attributes are present.
Ole was nothing but a passion merchant and it kind of worked for about 3 months after Mourinho left and then it became very apparent that he didn't offer anything in the other huge areas of modern football and it was just a waiting game until the passion wasn't there anymore and everything went to shit.
There is a reason why the likes of Guardiola are more likely to be top managers. They have a completely different experience of the game and what is required at the top level. Xavi is far more likely to have that than most ex-english players.
Wrong.
The PL was the best league around for a good period before Pep's Barcelona kicked into gear. From 09/10 to 17 or whatever La Liga was better. But to claim that the EPl lacked IQ and technique in the 00s (and even 2010s) is laughable. Yeah footballers like Aguero, Rooney, Henry, Silva, Berbatov, Ronaldo, Lampard, Hazard, KDB, Scholes, Carrick etc were so lacking technique.
It really is. It's just plain nonsense. It's probably a projection too, as if there's a league that lacked IQ and technique in the 00s it's Bundesliga.
Seeing as you know the model can you explain what other top managers are likely to be Guardiola level of dominance?