Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!

Ishdalar said:
The president came 6 months ago and found the team in shambles, you can't blame him for anything since he can't just print money like Atletico, PSG or Chelsea do.

The coach has a part of the blame, still, he's lost some of his best players and wasn't given anyone on a similar level to work with, also the talk about his sacking is an overreaction when you just lost vs one of the best teams in the world but were missing Dest, Dembele, Fati, Agüero, even Braithwaite and also Alba wasn't fit to play, 6 players that could be starters and don't have reasonable depth options behind them.

The veterans are probably the main culprits remaining at the club that led us to this point, they're not at the level this club demands, they are also to blame for the weak training regime we've had for years but at least they cut their wages when they had no need to do so. With time, hopefully, they will fade out of the team, but yesterday they were needed just to fill the starting 11.

And the rebuilding part is nothing new for long time Barcelona fans and even less for Laporta, there was a rebuild period after Cruyff left, another after the Gaspart era (signing free agents, looking for gems on mid tier Ligue 1 teams, playing kids from youth ranks). Everyone knew Bartomeu was a cancer, there have been articles about how poorly our finances have been ran (signings and wages) so is it really that weird to think that after we got rid of that tumor, most fans don't expect the team to be somewhere near to the level it was from 2008 to 2019?

The current board don't need any excuse to justify failure because any non plastic Barcelona fan knew the reality we face. We've been criticized for years because we were wasteful on our signings and we closed the window with a 70M net gain and signed free agents, we've been laughed at for our wage structure and in one summer he offloaded the two juggernaut contracts we had, convinced some of our big earners to cut their wages by half and lowered the wage/revenue ratio from 110% to 70%. Under those circumstances and with a manager that they didn't choose but had to keep no one expects this team to win a title, getting out of groups and finishing 3rd/4th in the league are the expectatives, anything beyond that is welcomed.
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I am glad to see you, you don't post so often now.
I understand that there are times when you have to be creative, but I really do not remember that in September the goal was set to be third or fourth and it was accepted so calmly.
Now is Sevilla the rival to beat? And Dynamo or Benfica fierce competition ?. It seems a little exaggerated.
Yesterday they went out to play at home as Osasuna, as if the 2-8 were two weeks ago.
If all comes down to not being able to fire Koeman then it's reasonable, I'm not sure if that's the reason as there was also talk of a meeting to renew.
I don't like the signings of Agüero and De Jong.
Do you name Atlético next to PSG and City? Why?
 
GoonerBear said:
At the same time, there needs to be an understanding of where a club is at & the circumstances that the club finds itself in.

We all understand Barca's finances are a mess. Everyone acknowledges it. It's going to take time to sort out. They'll have to have a strategy to sort it out, & a big part of that will be relying on young players from the academy.

It's not rocket science, & the plaster should have been ripped off a few seasons ago. It's not giving up on a season like someone else mentioned. It's trying to work to some sort of strategy to get themselves out of a mess. The problem of course when building with youth is hoping that they stay through the process.
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my problem more than with the strategy is with the lack of criticism. If Setien makes a game like yesterday ...
That's why there is the question of what exactly happens with the coach.Player by player I don't think the squad is so bad
 
They still make bad decisions in transfer market. Eric Garcia is absolutely terrible, he can play for a 15th-20th Liga team at best. Even for free he's bad and you probably have to pay him €1.5-2m. De Jong's not good enough and Aguero's a finished player on €10m a season. And offering €60m for Olmo when you can get Laporte for similar money and all your centre-backs are awful?
 
Ishdalar said:
Coutinho and Dembele were basically bought with PSG money, then you have a couple expensive signings like any other top club can do (Griez and De Jong) and after that you just list whatever, Pjanic's transfer was a 20M net gain operation, Malcom, Semedo and Firpo were net gains for the club and then you have reasonable signings like Lenglet or Dest, nothing weird specially if you compare it to the price being paid for worse players in the Premier League.

What's wrong about saying PSG print their own money? They paid the 2 most expensive signings ever 3 and 4 years ago, both players were amongst the best paid in the world and after the Covid crisis were Ligue 1 teams not only lost money on match day revenue, but also on TV rights after the competition was suspended and they had to renegotiate a worse contract they signed Messi, Ramos, Wijnaldum and Donnarumma (all on huge wages) plus Hakimi.

Since 2017 we've got 732M on transfers and spent 943M, compare that to PSG getting 326M and spending 705M and still they have enough money to pay Messi and Ramos, nothing wrong there, right?
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Your numbers donr come close to explaining the 1.35 billion euro debt. Or the sheer stupidity of paying griezmann 800k a week or pay messi a £60mil a year signing bonus and all the other daft financial stuff.

PSG have spent money but no-one has spent it stupidly as Barcelona have in recent years.
 
Have a feeling we're going to see a repeat on their trip to Germany soon. May be damaging to their confidence for the season.
 
Dave Smith said:
Serious question. What happens to Barca if they're knocked out of the group stage and fail to get top 4?
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We all laugh and rejoice.

But they wont. They will scrape through a distant second to Bayern and be a distant 3rd or 4th at worst in La Liga. I just dont see 2 more teams being better than them over the course of the season.
Quite happy to be proved wrong at the end of the season however.
 
Mart1974 said:
Not really. It is an example of a generational talent brining worldwide focus to a club and a sport. Messi, in my opinion, has done the same for Barcelona and La Liga and I expect Barcelona are going to lose a significant number of these fans as they are fans of Messi, rather than Barcelona.
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Agree with the last part.
 
cyberman said:
When a club starts hiding behind youth then you know they’re fecked. Just because they’re young doesn’t mean they have bright futures or it’s somehow a positive that this is the side you have ending the game against Bayern fecking Munich
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Moronic seeing as how Pedri and Fati are one of the best players in the world under 20.
 
Dave Smith said:
Serious question. What happens to Barca if they're knocked out of the group stage and fail to get top 4?
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It’s happened to United just last season so let me know so I can prepare. Maybe we’ll see them in Europa as well.
 
Now that Messi factor is gone, they are like any other team. It was hilarious to watch Luuk de Jong start for them in CL vs Bayern, he would start for any top 10 PL teams.

They still have some very good young players so they will be back but without Messi they wont have same fear factor and they will be just one more good team (Yeah it's obvious without GOAT they are not the same team).
 
roonster09 said:
Now that Messi factor is gone, they are like any other team. It was hilarious to watch Luuk de Jong start for them in CL vs Bayern, he would start for any top 10 PL teams.

They still have some very good young players so they will be back but without Messi they wont have same fear factor and they will be just one more good team (Yeah it's obvious without GOAT they are not the same team).
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Spot on. Even in la liga teams like Bilbao attacked us more than ever whereas with Messi they would just park the bus. Teams don’t fear us and that will start to expose our defense even more.
 
Daysleeper said:
Still crashed into Europa. It happens. We are in a rebuilding season.
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I meant financially. I cannot get my head around whether it would result in an extended rebuilding phase or a Leeds circa 2002/03 meltdown.
 
Dave Smith said:
I meant financially. I cannot get my head around whether it would result in an extended rebuilding phase or a Leeds circa 2002/03 meltdown.
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In theory it should be neither, they are nothing like Leeds because they generate their own money and are consistently in the top 3 of all clubs. It also shouldn't extend their rebuild because if they planned it properly, their rebuild should account for the strong possibility of missing the CL during the next seasons and not making it far in the CL if they are in it.
 
JPRouve said:
In theory it should be neither, they are nothing like Leeds because they generate their own money and are consistently in the top 3 of all clubs. It also shouldn't extend their rebuild because if they planned it properly, their rebuild should account for the strong possibility of missing the CL during the next seasons and not making it far in the CL if they are in it.
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May be me, but I don't suspect they have if we go by everything that has been going on.

Tbf, I do not think a Leeds will ever happen to them, simply because of the political power of the club.
 
Hilarious. Sad. Pathetic even. Barcelona?
No, several Utd fans, already comparing Barcelona with post-2003 Leeds or 1991-2004 Liverpool.

09-11 obsession mixed with ignorance. Hilarious. Sad. Pathetic even.
 
Dave Smith said:
May be me, but I don't suspect they have if we go by everything that has been going on.

Tbf, I do not think a Leeds will ever happen to them, simply because of the political power of the club.
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Even if they didn't plan it properly in the sense that they underestimate the length of a rebuild, it doesn't actually have an effect on their short term finances, at least not as much as reducing their expenses by a couple of hundred millions which is what they did this summer. Also Laporta isn't Bartomeu, the latter was exceptionally incompetent and Barcelona issues were always easy to fix, it's basic budgeting, so I don't really see why Barcelona wouldn't plan the next couple of years properly.
 
JPRouve said:
Even if they didn't plan it properly in the sense that they underestimate the length of a rebuild, it doesn't actually have an effect on their short term finances, at least not as much as reducing their expenses by a couple of hundred millions which is what they did this summer. Also Laporta isn't Bartomeu, the latter was exceptionally incompetent and Barcelona issues were always easy to fix, it's basic budgeting, so I don't really see why Barcelona wouldn't plan the next couple of years properly.
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Some posters are too young to remember pre-Messi football from other leagues. I'd say Barcelona was in worse shape in 2000-2003, but made a comeback already in 2004-2006 with the likes of Ronaldinho, Deco, and Eto'o.

As I've said before, Laporta will try to sign Haaland and other 23-27 years old Top Top players (probably defenders). And of course they already have De Jong and Pedri. And perhaps we'll even see a comeback by Pep as manager.

That or perhaps Xavi will become their next great manager. And Fati their new Top star if injuries respect him.

But comparing Barcelona with Leeds, Liverpoo, Arsenal or AC Milan is all kinds of ludicrous.
 
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Oly Francis said:
I felt pretty uncomfortable seeing Koeman throwing the young lads under the bus, as if he realized midgame that Busquets and Sergi Roberto are no good for high level football anymore. There's an hypocrisy at Barcelona that they'll be able to rebuild the club with homegrown players : it won't be enough and they shouldn't be used as a bait for angry fans.
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When did they last produce a genuine starter?
 
MadMike said:
For a while probably. He only extended last October he has 5 years remaining. Barca will likely pull a Daniel Levy and not let him leave. They’re building a team around him and Pedri, they’ll be too fecked if they let either leave. They are the only bright sparks in a sea of negativity.
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they will ne to build that team quickly (and presumably with mostly free transfers) Otherwise in 3 years de jong and pedri probably wont sign contract extensions and their value will fall.

So either Barca rebuild in a couple of years with mostly free transfers or it will be time to cash in
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
OK so since the foursome from La Masia 15 years ago, it's been Pedri?

Not ideal.
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I'm not sure I follow. Alba, Iniesta, Piqué and Busquets were still Top Top players in 2014-2016, 7-5 years ago (1 treble + 1 Liga title in two seasons). And Roberto a perfectly fine bench player, easily better than McT.

Valverde was notoriously famous for ignoring LaMasia players,so the 2018-2020 era doesn't really count.
 
Pretzels81 said:
Pedri, some months ago. And Fati before his knee broke.
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Pretzels81 said:
Still a product of their B team/La Masia.
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you know pedri isnt home grown?

they signed him from las palmas for €5m where he played 1st team football for a year and he went straight into the first team squad (squad number 16 before the season started... debut as a sub in september and in the starting xi by october...)

Tarnsfer was agreed in September 2019 and move completed July 2020

never played for Barca B never at La Masia

he was at CF Juventud Laguna in Tenerife before joining Las Palmas... then Barca 1st team

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedri

TLDR your wrong
 
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sun_tzu said:
they will ne to build that team quickly (and presumably with mostly free transfers) Otherwise in 3 years de jong and pedri probably wont sign contract extensions and their value will fall.

So either Barca rebuild in a couple of years with mostly free transfers or it will be time to cash in
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Well, until De Jong gets to his last year of contract he has no means of pressure really. That's in 2025, 4 years away still. Pedri is only 18 and is a starter for Barcelona so its difficult to argue that there's a better place for his development right now. If he moves to PSG, City, Liverpool etc. he risks disrupting his development. I expect him to renew and stay for another 3-4 years easily, till his early 20s.

I reckon they have a bit more time basically, about 3-4 years. If they don't sort it out by 2025 they'll be in trouble. De Jong at 28 will not be renewing to this mess and will be looking to try somewhere else while his stock still holds, so they will have to sell. If him and Pedri leave, they'll need a new midfield and assuming that the reason they leave is because Barcelona is still a mess then it will be hard for Barca to replace them with players of comparable quality with peanuts for money.

They have ample time. The problem is how they build a team around them till then. Pique, Busquets, Aguero, Coutinho, Griezmann, L.De Jong, Umtiti, O.Dembele, J.Alba... none of those will be around by summer 2024 at the latest. That's at least 9 players they need to replace over the next 3 years and like I said it will be hard to replace them with comparable quality on the cheap.
 
Dave Smith said:
I meant financially. I cannot get my head around whether it would result in an extended rebuilding phase or a Leeds circa 2002/03 meltdown.
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Honestly I think within the next few years we should be okay but with all the reckless spending by Barca the club needs to be humbled if we are being honest. They will do films on the internal sabotage Barto did.
 
Arios said:
which players they don't want to sell? Pedri? Ansu Fati? Franky Dejong? I don't see any super star that they cannot do without. Even those three are talents but not game changing
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Barcelona will not sell talented young players, they have already fixed the salary gap.
In the 19/20 season the salary bill was 679M, now it is at 412M and pending the new contracts and downward renewals of S. Roberto, Dembele, Umtiti, Coutinho and some basketball players.
Probably be below 400M in a few months and of those 412M around 170M are amortization that will expire in 2-3 years.

kouroux said:
If they make a top 4 finish in their league, it would be a good season for them.
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Third place in the league less than 10 points behind the leader would be normal, Real Madrid and Atletico also have their problems

izec said:
They have to pay the price now for the next few years. Top 4 fight is the best they van hope for in the coming years
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It would be interesting to know the money that Barcelona will have in the coming years to sign according to the users here.

carvajal said:
my problem more than with the strategy is with the lack of criticism. If Setien makes a game like yesterday ...
That's why there is the question of what exactly happens with the coach.Player by player I don't think the squad is so bad
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If there is something in Barcelona it is a tremendous critical and toxic environment.
After the departure of Neymar, the next 2 years Real Madrid was 17 and 18 points behind Barcelona, if that happens the other way around the Camp Nou burns and has to resign the entire board of directors.
Simply the people of Barcelona know where they are and you have patience to fix little by little the team and the economy


dinostar77 said:
Your numbers donr come close to explaining the 1.35 billion euro debt. Or the sheer stupidity of paying griezmann 800k a week or pay messi a £60mil a year signing bonus and all the other daft financial stuff.

PSG have spent money but no-one has spent it stupidly as Barcelona have in recent years.
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I already explained the debt in other posts and also put a link.
That debt is not official or real and we will have to see if he presents it because it will be challenged.
Laporta has put as debt things that no club imputes as such, it is simply a game of trileros to have to guarantee much less money.
The net debt as they say is about 600M and this year in the transfer market was achieved +70M


hellhunter said:
United are far from broke, though.
[/QUOroke,

Barcelona is also far from broke, with the Spanish financial fair play in the premier league no team could sign this year without selling many players.


Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
OK so since the foursome from La Masia 15 years ago, it's been Pedri?

Not ideal.
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Barcelona has a great generation of young players, not all of them will stand out but they are very promising.
You have to understand the context, in a team with Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Cesc, Deco, Thiago, Yaya Toure, Rakitic, Márquez and many of them being young no young guy is going to come to your youth teams and also the guys you have leave you and it is logical, they want to progress.
And it also happened in other positions, with Messi, Suarez, Neymar with many years ahead nobody wants to stay. Fati came to the first team because Neymar left, with the Brazilian Fati would still be in B probably
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dinostar77 said:
Why? What's the point? Team is rubbish. Barcelona were never going to beat Bayern.
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Yes, but one thing is not beating Bayern and a different thing altogether is not having one single shot on target and not getting humiliated again simply because Bayern didn't play 100% and used the match to rest, all this at home too. Barça has many, many problems at the moment, but Koeman is certainly one of them.
 
horsechoker said:
Koeman on the verge of being sacked according to ballbag

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I think the only option to get fired is with a very bad run of results.

If you fire him who do you bring? One option would be García Pimienta but you have fired him from Barcelona B to put a friend who all the teams where he went failed miserably.

Jordi Cruyff? He said he wouldn't.
It seems that the relationship with Xavi is not very good because he supported another candidate where he would be either manager or coach.

In my opinion changing coaches now would be very damaging.
 
Daysleeper said:
Still crashed into Europa. It happens. We are in a rebuilding season.
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You are a long way away from this being just a "rebuilding season". It will get alot worse before it gets better.

Again and it cannot be stressed enough, how financially fecked you are as a club. We're not talking about a few lean years like Madrid, you are nursing massive debts, all of which are being compounded on at the moment and its only going to get worse while Barca are unable to fill their stadium. Not only that, its a massively ageing squad and thats only compounded by adding aguero etc.

Forget about player salary turnover, Barcelona are a massive club and if their net revenue last year was 700 million euro and they've lost 500 million euro in the same 12 months, it means your net revenue needs to be closer to 1 billion euro just to break even taking into consideration the salary's that have been wiped off the wage bill.

If the morons doing the accounting that come up with the bullshit "messi is worth 30% of Barca's brand" that means that the best you can hope for is 800-900 million euros and thats still 100 million euro short of where you may need to be.
 
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