Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!

carvajal said:
That rebuilding thing has never existed in Spanish football, and even less in Madrid or Barcelona. They are cheap excuses to justify failure.
Explain to the soci that this year does not count. You should demand, blame and point directly at the coach, veterans or president.
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At the same time, there needs to be an understanding of where a club is at & the circumstances that the club finds itself in.

We all understand Barca's finances are a mess. Everyone acknowledges it. It's going to take time to sort out. They'll have to have a strategy to sort it out, & a big part of that will be relying on young players from the academy.

It's not rocket science, & the plaster should have been ripped off a few seasons ago. It's not giving up on a season like someone else mentioned. It's trying to work to some sort of strategy to get themselves out of a mess. The problem of course when building with youth is hoping that they stay through the process.
 
The rebuilding starts with acknowledgement of the problem and lowering expectations. But with Barca I get a sense that they still believe that they are special. I doubt whether their base would be willing to endure mediocrity, which comes with the process of rebuilding.
 
Don't see why people seem surprised. They're basically set to go through a barren spell like we have done over the past 8 years. Possibly worse given their financial condition and possibly better if they buy well from hereon. Either way they're a team that needs a big transition so you can expect a few hammering along the way.
 
Hastar said:
The rebuilding starts with acknowledgement of the problem and lowering expectations. But with Barca I get a sense that they still believe that they are special. I doubt whether their base would be willing to endure mediocrity, which comes with the process of rebuilding.
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It's hardly like they have a choice. No different to Liverpool and our fall from grace. Unless they wind up or are forced to keep selling players they don't want to sell
 
Hastar said:
The rebuilding starts with acknowledgement of the problem and lowering expectations. But with Barca I get a sense that they still believe that they are special. I doubt whether their base would be willing to endure mediocrity, which comes with the process of rebuilding.
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they lost their special status when they lost Messi.
Now they're a normal club overriden by money problems which won't compete with the other big teams till they settle.
Messi used to cover up problems and keep revenue high with sponsors and what's not.
We'll see how that changes.
Usually they would've pumped more money and get 2-3 stars but now?
Also Liga pulling them for their wage structure didn't help.
Without those regulations which stopped them from making Messi sign a new deal they could've gone on for a bit more
 
amolbhatia50k said:
It's hardly like they have a choice. No different to Liverpool and our fall from grace. Unless they wind up or are forced to keep selling players they don't want to sell
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which players they don't want to sell? Pedri? Ansu Fati? Franky Dejong? I don't see any super star that they cannot do without. Even those three are talents but not game changing
 
giorno said:
Eh. Once they get Ansu Fati, Dembele and Aguero back, we'll see what they're truly made of
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Once they get a toddler who suffered a year-long injury, an often-injured player whose transfer can be charitably called "underwhelming", and a 33-year-old who played less than 1000 minutes of football last season, we'll see what they're made of.
 
The strategy is very much to throw away this season to fix the financial situation so they can start fresh next season without the noose around their neck
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
Once they get a toddler who suffered a year-long injury, a permacrock, and a 33-year-old who played less than 1000 minutes of football last season, we'll see what they're made of.
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Yes. Since at least two of those guys are supposed to be starting over Luuk fecking De Jong
 
giorno said:
Yes. Since at least two of those guys are supposed to be starting over Luuk fecking De Jong
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Sure, but Messi and Luis Suarez would also start over Luuk De Jong, and with both of them on the pitch (or just one, as in last season) they had a bunch of comical defeats in the UCL.
 
This result is a classic example of why the 2 Spanish clubs wanted the European Super League so badly.

They have been on the decline for a couple of years now, and when this started with the Italian clubs a few years ago it proved very difficult to stop.

They were being carried by an aging Messi, with nothing like the level of support he could count on 5 years ago.

And because of the financial turmoil over there it's difficult to see where major squad improvements are coming from - hence the desperate move towards the ESL to line their pockets again.

It's all very well calling for Koeman to be sacked but the problems run much deeper than the manager and may well get worse before they get better.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
Sure, but Messi and Luis Suarez would also start over Luuk De Jong, and with both of them on the pitch (or just one, as in last season) they had a bunch of comical defeats in the UCL.
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Precisely, which is why bottoming out and focusing on the financial situation as the priority makes sense

As for this season, nobody expects much from them anyways, but they are or at least can/should be better than that going forward
 
carvajal said:
That rebuilding thing has never existed in Spanish football, and even less in Madrid or Barcelona. They are cheap excuses to justify failure.
Explain to the soci that this year does not count. You should demand, blame and point directly at the coach, veterans or president.
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The president came 6 months ago and found the team in shambles, you can't blame him for anything since he can't just print money like Atletico, PSG or Chelsea do.

The coach has a part of the blame, still, he's lost some of his best players and wasn't given anyone on a similar level to work with, also the talk about his sacking is an overreaction when you just lost vs one of the best teams in the world but were missing Dest, Dembele, Fati, Agüero, even Braithwaite and also Alba wasn't fit to play, 6 players that could be starters and don't have reasonable depth options behind them.

The veterans are probably the main culprits remaining at the club that led us to this point, they're not at the level this club demands, they are also to blame for the weak training regime we've had for years but at least they cut their wages when they had no need to do so. With time, hopefully, they will fade out of the team, but yesterday they were needed just to fill the starting 11.

And the rebuilding part is nothing new for long time Barcelona fans and even less for Laporta, there was a rebuild period after Cruyff left, another after the Gaspart era (signing free agents, looking for gems on mid tier Ligue 1 teams, playing kids from youth ranks). Everyone knew Bartomeu was a cancer, there have been articles about how poorly our finances have been ran (signings and wages) so is it really that weird to think that after we got rid of that tumor, most fans don't expect the team to be somewhere near to the level it was from 2008 to 2019?

The current board don't need any excuse to justify failure because any non plastic Barcelona fan knew the reality we face. We've been criticized for years because we were wasteful on our signings and we closed the window with a 70M net gain and signed free agents, we've been laughed at for our wage structure and in one summer he offloaded the two juggernaut contracts we had, convinced some of our big earners to cut their wages by half and lowered the wage/revenue ratio from 110% to 70%. Under those circumstances and with a manager that they didn't choose but had to keep no one expects this team to win a title, getting out of groups and finishing 3rd/4th in the league are the expectatives, anything beyond that is welcomed.
 
Acrobat7 said:
The group is weak enough for Barca to come in second and I just don’t see 4 teams in Spain being stronger then them over the whole season. So they will be playing CL again next season.

There won‘t be a fire sale and Bayern has developed into their bogey team anyways (3-0/4-0, 8-2, 3-0).
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Oh, I think they will probably get 4th and 2nd in there CL group (although I think Benfica are more of a live opponent than people are giving them credit for.)

It was more, I am interested how much worse it gets for them if that actually happens.
 
ChrisNelson said:
This result is a classic example of why the 2 Spanish clubs wanted the European Super League so badly.

They have been on the decline for a couple of years now, and when this started with the Italian clubs a few years ago it proved very difficult to stop.

They were being carried by an aging Messi, with nothing like the level of support he could count on 5 years ago.

And because of the financial turmoil over there it's difficult to see where major squad improvements are coming from - hence the desperate move towards the ESL to line their pockets again.

It's all very well calling for Koeman to be sacked but the problems run much deeper than the manager and may well get worse before they get better.
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Barcelona and Real Madrid (plus Juve) want the ESL as badly as United, Arsenal, Inter or even Chelsea. The only difference is that they aren't controlled by agents alien to the club that can't afford to fall out of favor with their fans.

I'm against ESL, I barely sympathize with Real Madrid and I hate Florentino Perez and everything he stands for, but you can't deny he has a point in how standard clubs won't have a chance to remain at the top if sugar daddies keep flooding the sport, PSG rejecting the 200M Real Madrid had been saving for almost 3 years when it looks that means losing the player for free in 9 months while having players that could cover really good for Mbappe's departure is a perfect example that proves his point, no other normal club would take that risk. Bartomeu, for example, could face a judge for rejecting City's offer last year to get Messi if our board find too many frauds to ignore.

I don't care if we fall out of favor and clubs like Barcelona or United become 2nd tier teams like Porto or Ajax did in the last decades due to a swing of money in the sport, but I also don't believe the project has been done and dusted for EPL teams, at least Real Madrid and Barcelona could keep dominating La Liga for decades. United, on the other hand, have the problem a few miles away from home and have been suffering the consequences already, if more oil clubs emerge in the Premier League, or if City go through another crazy spending streak I don't have any doubt that the Super League button will be used again.
 
Ishdalar said:
Barcelona and Real Madrid (plus Juve) want the ESL as badly as United, Arsenal, Inter or even Chelsea. The only difference is that they aren't controlled by agents alien to the club that can't afford to fall out of favor with their fans.

I'm against ESL, I barely sympathize with Real Madrid and I hate Florentino Perez and everything he stands for, but you can't deny he has a point in how standard clubs won't have a chance to remain at the top if sugar daddies keep flooding the sport, PSG rejecting the 200M Real Madrid had been saving for almost 3 years when it looks that means losing the player for free in 9 months while having players that could cover really good for Mbappe's departure is a perfect example that proves his point, no other normal club would take that risk. Bartomeu, for example, could face a judge for rejecting City's offer last year to get Messi if our board find too many frauds to ignore.

I don't care if we fall out of favor and clubs like Barcelona or United become 2nd tier teams like Porto or Ajax did in the last decades due to a swing of money in the sport, but I also don't believe the project has been done and dusted for EPL teams, at least Real Madrid and Barcelona could keep dominating La Liga for decades. United, on the other hand, have the problem a few miles away from home and have been suffering the consequences already, if more oil clubs emerge in the Premier League, or if City go through another crazy spending streak I don't have any doubt that the Super League button will be used again.
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Can we stop the "we can't print money like PSG" rethoric, it's ridiculous. Barcelona had money, they decided to spend it in stupid transfers and wages for Messi.

Coutinho : 135M+
Dembele : 135M
Griezmann : 120M
De Jong : 86M (he's a good one)
Pjanic : 60M (in a weird swap with Arthur that increased even more the payroll)
Malcom : 41M
Lenglet : 36M
Semedo : 36M
Trincao : 31M
Dest : 21M
Firpo : 20M

All of this in the past 4 years. On top of the 100M/y for Messi. Barcelona spent roughly 750M in transfers only and De Jong is the only one that isn't useless, here's the main reason why the team is in shambles, stop blaiming others.
 
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stefan92 said:
They were playing at home.
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I know! They're hitting new lows, but those defeats were more fun when they had Messi, Suarez, etc. With the current version it isn't much of a surprise they're losing like this against Bayern.
 
According to the Spanish press, Laporta will sack Koeman if he keeps using the 5-3-2 (5 defenders).

I personally think the 5-3-2 makes sense with the likes of Pedri, Fati and Dembele injured.

The 0-3 was bit harsh but most clubs would have lost 0-3 or 1-3. Currently, Bayern is just too strong for any club other than City, PSG and perhaps Chelsea. Juve and the vermin would be decent challenges but I still think Bayern would knock them out in two legs.
 
Pretzels81 said:
The 0-3 was bit harsh but most clubs would have lost 0-3 or 1-3. Currently, Bayern is just too strong for any club other than City, PSG and perhaps Chelsea. Juve and the vermin would be decent challenges but I still think Bayern would knock them out in two legs.
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Why was it harsh? Bayern wasn’t really trying and Barca didn't have a single shot on target.
The scoreline somewhat flatters Barca which makes it even worse.
 
When a club starts hiding behind youth then you know they’re fecked. Just because they’re young doesn’t mean they have bright futures or it’s somehow a positive that this is the side you have ending the game against Bayern fecking Munich
 
Acrobat7 said:
Why was it harsh? Bayern wasn’t really trying and Barca didn't have a single shot on target.
The scoreline somewhat flatters Barca which makes it even worse.
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Nah, not really. For all the obvious superiority bayern took the lead on a deflected shot and didn't create all that much. xG was 0.2-2.0, and both of lewandowski's goals make up most of that xG
 
giorno said:
Nah, not really. For all the obvious superiority bayern took the lead on a deflected shot and didn't create all that much. xG was 0.2-2.0, and both of lewandowski's goals make up most of that xG
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The way the game actually went a 2-0 would have been enough, the xG matches my feeling here, so 3-0 can be seen as a bit harsh.

The gulf in quality was not obvious in constant pressure and steamrolling Barca, but in the impression that Bayern not even have to actually care to be in absolute control.

So yes most clubs would currently lose against Bayern, even with a similar scoreline, but most clubs would at least force them to actually care about the game, Barca did not.
 
Oly Francis said:
Can we stop the "we can't print money like PSG" rethoric, it's ridiculous. Barcelona had money, they decided to spend it in stupid transfers and wages for Messi.

Coutinho : 135M+
Dembele : 135M
Griezmann : 120M
De Jong : 86M (he's a good one)
Pjanic : 60M (in a weird swap with Arthur that increased even more the payroll)
Malcom : 41M
Lenglet : 36M
Semedo : 36M
Trincao : 31M
Dest : 21M
Firpo : 20M

All of this in the past 4 years. On top of the 100M/y for Messi. Barcelona spent roughly 750M in transfers only and De Jong is the only one that isn't useless, here's the main reason why the team is in shambles, stop blaiming others.
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Coutinho and Dembele were basically bought with PSG money, then you have a couple expensive signings like any other top club can do (Griez and De Jong) and after that you just list whatever, Pjanic's transfer was a 20M net gain operation, Malcom, Semedo and Firpo were net gains for the club and then you have reasonable signings like Lenglet or Dest, nothing weird specially if you compare it to the price being paid for worse players in the Premier League.

What's wrong about saying PSG print their own money? They paid the 2 most expensive signings ever 3 and 4 years ago, both players were amongst the best paid in the world and after the Covid crisis were Ligue 1 teams not only lost money on match day revenue, but also on TV rights after the competition was suspended and they had to renegotiate a worse contract they signed Messi, Ramos, Wijnaldum and Donnarumma (all on huge wages) plus Hakimi.

Since 2017 we've got 732M on transfers and spent 943M, compare that to PSG getting 326M and spending 705M and still they have enough money to pay Messi and Ramos, nothing wrong there, right?
 
giorno said:
Nah, not really. For all the obvious superiority bayern took the lead on a deflected shot and didn't create all that much. xG was 0.2-2.0, and both of lewandowski's goals make up most of that xG
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In my opinion this is because Bayern didn’t try anymore after the 2-0. They absorbed Barca‘s pressure in the first 10 minutes, controlled the game afterwards and started to take the foot of the pedal after 60 minutes.
 
Acrobat7 said:
In my opinion this is because Bayern didn’t try anymore after the 2-0. They absorbed Barca‘s pressure in the first 10 minutes, controlled the game afterwards and started to take the foot of the pedal after 60 minutes.
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Totally agree. Chris Sutton called it a 2-0 mauling at one point and it was 100 percent accurate
 
They have to pay the price now for the next few years. Top 4 fight is the best they van hope for in the coming years
 
They've just been slowly coming apart since the day Guardiola left. It wasn't that long ago they were such a dominant force, and their tiki-taka youth system was getting such high praise it felt like their stranglehold on the game wouldn't be broken.
 
They definitely face a tough rebuild but after offloading their top 2 earners in Messi and Griezmann, they should do fine in the near future. Their revenues are Top 3 almost every year, and though some dubiously claim Messi accounted for 30% of that, they should still make a lot and should be able to fix the team over the next few years. Laporta's transfer record is quite good and if he gets a couple of good players in next year and the years after, they will be back to the top pretty quickly
 
VanDeBank said:
Great post.

That La Masia side, our class of 92, Ajax 95 CL side, they're freak incidents that cannot be recreated or relied upon.

Barca putting in a bunch of academy kids now would be like what LVG did at United. Tyler Blackett, Paddy McNair, Thorpe, Love, Weir, Borthwick-Jackson
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This is a really solid point when talking about academy players and the likelihood of them actually making it at a top club. When you put aside the obvious anomalies like Giggs and co, and Xavi and co, you see that for every one Marcus Rashford, you get about 7 or 8 Tyler Blackett's.
 
Jericho said:
their tiki-taka youth system was getting such high praise
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I think that was always a bit overrated. There was alread a generational gap in the "Masia generation" (10 years separating the oldest players from the youngest), and most of the new ones never amounted to much (Thiago is probably the most successful of the younger ones).

Hell, I remember Guardiola putting on Sergi Roberto during that 0-2 at the Bernabeu. Now Barcelona supporters bully him into crying.
 
Acrobat7 said:
In my opinion this is because Bayern didn’t try anymore after the 2-0. They absorbed Barca‘s pressure in the first 10 minutes, controlled the game afterwards and started to take the foot of the pedal after 60 minutes.
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Obviously, but i was disputing the scoreline flattering barcelona. It didn't, it was a fair reflection of the action on the pitch. Bayern could have scored another 8 if they wanted, maybe, but they didn't try
 
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