I'm just hoping Real smash them tonight.
Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!
- Thread starter The Boy
- Start date
Fantastic summary.
Yeah agreed people saying because some refs made bad decisions against Barca then it doesn't matter, the issue is were they genuine mistakes or were they paid for, that's the difference between corruption which is banned, and just mistakes, which are unfortunate, but impossible to get rid of, particularly pre VAR, not that it's helped much in the PL with how it's been implemented, but at least most of the glaring errors will now get caught
Promote FreckBarca
The one-man anti-Barca gaslighting machine.
After a night I look way more relaxed on yesterday's performance. Xavi just chose the most logical tactic under those circumstances (bad form, fatigueness and 4 key players injured). No culer wants to watch a game with 35 % possession, but what was the other option? Play high pressing and give Madrid room to counter attack would have resulted in a similar score Liverpool got. We can only play our game successfully when all our key players are fit and the team isn't tired. That wasn't the case yesterday clearly.
So Xavi was very pragmatic and focused on what we could achieve. Namely guard Vinicius and destroy Madrid's offensive game. Araujo had no problems with Vinicius for the third clasico in a row and then Madrid always have problems to create dangerous moments without him. They lack full backs to widen the game and rely solely on Vinicius.
For the first time in 15 years!, Madrid haven't had a single shot on goal at the Bernabeu. Xavi made the best out of his possibilities yesterday and fortunately, we stumbled in a goal and won this game. (Although it hurts that Fati defended the second one
)
Now I hope that all players will be fit and ready for the next league clasico in roughly 2 weeks. Lewy and Christensen will definetly be ready, but there is also hope for Dembele and Pedri. If we beat them there, LaLiga should be ours.
So Xavi was very pragmatic and focused on what we could achieve. Namely guard Vinicius and destroy Madrid's offensive game. Araujo had no problems with Vinicius for the third clasico in a row and then Madrid always have problems to create dangerous moments without him. They lack full backs to widen the game and rely solely on Vinicius.
For the first time in 15 years!, Madrid haven't had a single shot on goal at the Bernabeu. Xavi made the best out of his possibilities yesterday and fortunately, we stumbled in a goal and won this game. (Although it hurts that Fati defended the second one
)Now I hope that all players will be fit and ready for the next league clasico in roughly 2 weeks. Lewy and Christensen will definetly be ready, but there is also hope for Dembele and Pedri. If we beat them there, LaLiga should be ours.
They've changed the regulations and banned further use of leavers.
Makes you wonder who will be in the market this summer. All clubs outside of the oil ones are totally skint and need to sell.
Transfer market probably collapses and lots of swaps.
Makes you wonder who will be in the market this summer. All clubs outside of the oil ones are totally skint and need to sell.
Transfer market probably collapses and lots of swaps.
Probably try selling players they haven’t bought yet
Tebas should shut his mouth and remember that he is not the president of Real Madrid's ultras or Marca/El Mundo, but LaLiga's and has a duty of neutrality. He still can't get over the fact, that a court forced him to accept Gavi's registration. What a pathetic character he is.
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After a night I look way more relaxed on yesterday's performance. Xavi just chose the most logical tactic under those circumstances (bad form, fatigueness and 4 key players injured). No culer wants to watch a game with 35 % possession, but what was the other option? Play high pressing and give Madrid room to counter attack would have resulted in a similar score Liverpool got. We can only play our game successfully when all our key players are fit and the team isn't tired. That wasn't the case yesterday clearly.
So Xavi was very pragmatic and focused on what we could achieve. Namely guard Vinicius and destroy Madrid's offensive game. Araujo had no problems with Vinicius for the third clasico in a row and then Madrid always have problems to create dangerous moments without him. They lack full backs to widen the game and rely solely on Vinicius.
For the first time in 15 years!, Madrid haven't had a single shot on goal at the Bernabeu. Xavi made the best out of his possibilities yesterday and fortunately, we stumbled in a goal and won this game. (Although it hurts that Fati defended the second one
Now I hope that all players will be fit and ready for the next league clasico in roughly 2 weeks. Lewy and Christensen will definetly be ready, but there is also hope for Dembele and Pedri. If we beat them there, LaLiga should be ours.
Xavi got Carlo’s number. I felt much more confident with Zidane in big games.
And it was indeed very well done by Xavi, he wasn’t naive and played to the strengths left in the team. Nvm a shot on goal, I legit can’t think of a big chance we created other than the Carvajal one. La Liga is yours anyway, Madrid will lose points.
I do have to say: the player Xavi would’ve moaned that the team with more possession deserved the win
Didn’t expect him to be this pragmatic. Fair play.Only the CL left, luckily there is no real favorite this year so we might fluke our way to another one.
La Liga is yours anyway, Madrid will lose points.
I do have to say: the player Xavi would’ve moaned that the team with more possession deserved the win
Only the CL left, luckily there is no real favorite this year so we might fluke our way to another one.
You're right, he definetly would have said that
Xavi surprised everyone yesterday with this tactic. Although I think we lost the ball way faster than he would have liked and created too little up front for his liking. Your pressing was nearly the whole game on point. I can't remember a game where we lost the ball so fast every time we tried to built an attack.
I don't know about La Liga yet. There are still 15 games to go, 45 points. Despite the clasicos, our form after the worldcup has been terrible, we've won many games just 1:0. We couldn't score against Almeria with Lewandowski (who is in a bad form 2023,) a side that conceded 40 goals. If we lose the clasico you can catch up 4 points easily. And you guys look most of the times better on our pitch. It's strange, but I have a feeling that both teams play the clasicos better at each others stadium. Maybe the pressure is bigger in front of the own fans, maybe the motivation bigger to ruin the day of the opponent's fans. I don't know the reason, but we also feel more comfortable playing the clasico in the Bernabeu. Maybe I'm wrong here, but that's my feeling.
And in the CL, you have a serious chance to win it like every season. It's a different Madrid team, when you hear the CL anthem before the game. Your mindset in that competition is unique and I'm really jealous watching our team getting a thrashing year after year in europe, while you fill your museum with cl trophies. I hope our mindset will also change in your direction going forward.
You're right, he definetly would have said that
Xavi surprised everyone yesterday with this tactic. Although I think we lost the ball way faster than he would have liked and created too little up front for his liking. Your pressing was nearly the whole game on point. I can't remember a game where we lost the ball so fast every time we tried to built an attack.
I don't know about La Liga yet. There are still 15 games to go, 45 points. Despite the clasicos, our form after the worldcup has been terrible, we've won many games just 1:0. We couldn't score against Almeria with Lewandowski (who is in a bad form 2023,) a side that conceded 40 goals. If we lose the clasico you can catch up 4 points easily. And you guys look most of the times better on our pitch. It's strange, but I have a feeling that both teams play the clasicos better at each others stadium. Maybe the pressure is bigger in front of the own fans, maybe the motivation bigger to ruin the day of the opponent's fans. I don't know the reason, but we also feel more comfortable playing the clasico in the Bernabeu. Maybe I'm wrong here, but that's my feeling.
And in the CL, you have a serious chance to win it like every season. It's a different Madrid team, when you hear the CL anthem before the game. Your mindset in that competition is unique and I'm really jealous watching our team getting a thrashing year after year in europe, while you fill your museum with cl trophies. I hope our mindset will also change in your direction going forward.
Our press I find disjointed actually, think it also played a part that Pedri/Dembele etc weren’t there. Not just this game, we have this weird press whereby half the team moves up the pitch but the defense is sitting far back. So you get huge gaps in the midfield. It’s nowhere close to what a prime Pep/Klopp team were doing. I have mentioned this before, the half arsed pressing should be fixed. But somehow we rarely do, exceptions not counting.
As for LaLiga, we cannot keep a clean sheet and our entire offense is hinging on Vinicius. When he turns it on, sure he is unstoppable. But I think he hit a wall and is just dead tired. Barca is way more consistent and I’m guessing also motivated as it has been a couple of years.
Champions League we do seem to turn it on, I think it is our best bet to focus all on the CL and rest players in the league when needed. Barca seems to be the opposite ever since 2015, even with Messi.
And you are right about the playing better away from home in the Clasico actually. Barca wins quite often in the Bernabeu and Real manages wins in Camp Nou for whatever reason.
They are all at it.
No wonder he was saying Barca couldn’t be punished a few weeks ago. He was setting precedent
Wouldn't it be weird if Serie A was one of the more honest and fair leagues. Just by virtue of catching and punishing teams when they cheat. Kind of wrote it off 15 years ago but was getting a bit more into it last season or two and both the premier league and la liga fecking up their competitions so severely makes me wonder.
Recent revelations make la liga look like a farce. Whole league should be nuked and start from fresh
Recent revelations make la liga look like a farce. Whole league should be nuked and start from fresh
I am having trouble following all that is happening recently. But this is known:
This involves Tebas and Albert Soler. Tebas and Soler plotted to kick Rubiales out and put Soler in his position. This means Tebas and Soler plotted to make Soler the president of Spanish FA.
So, who is Soler??
Albert Soler was a Barca executive during 2014-2021(many of these years they were paying Negreira). Then he was Sports "Director General" 2021-2023. This is a high position in the Spanish gobernment, they are selected and fired directly by the the Council of Ministers.
He also seems to be involved deeply in the Negreira case as you will see below.
There was recently a press call made jointly by the Spanish FA and the Referee Committee (CTA) regarding Negreira (the ref VP who received 6.6M€ from Barca) and his son.
They revelead that they made a huge investigation regarding every ref. A document from the investigation was leaked and it asked things like if they had been in contact with the son of Negreira or if he had taken them to a football stadium before and if any payments had been involved.
In this press call they didn't say much as they wanted to keep the results of the investigation private. The revealed that if the Spanish Prosecution filed a demand they will give them all the information they had, until then they would be kind of waiting.
They also said two things (did not revel any names)
-1 ref didn't collaborate.
-They found proof that 1 person with governmental attributions did in fact know that these payments were happening at the time but chose to not say anything or denounce it. The current thesis is that this person must be Albert Soler.
A high sports executive of the Government at the time and a former Barca executive during the time they were paying Negreira. According to this article the Spanish FA is considering taking legal action against him
Other recent news regarding the Negreira case:
--According to this article, during the years Barca paid Negreira, he would withdraw 20,000€ monthly in cash. It is not know what he did with the money.
--According to this article the integrity department of UEFA has asked the Spanish FA for all the information regarding the Negreira case.
This is important because it looks like only UEFA and FIFA could give any sporting sanctions.
--According to El Mundo when Negreira stopped being the ref VP, Barca stopped the payments. Then Negreira sent 6 additional bills, one of them of almost 40,000€. Barca answered saying they were not paying him anymore.
This involves Tebas and Albert Soler. Tebas and Soler plotted to kick Rubiales out and put Soler in his position. This means Tebas and Soler plotted to make Soler the president of Spanish FA.
So, who is Soler??
Albert Soler was a Barca executive during 2014-2021(many of these years they were paying Negreira). Then he was Sports "Director General" 2021-2023. This is a high position in the Spanish gobernment, they are selected and fired directly by the the Council of Ministers.
He also seems to be involved deeply in the Negreira case as you will see below.
There was recently a press call made jointly by the Spanish FA and the Referee Committee (CTA) regarding Negreira (the ref VP who received 6.6M€ from Barca) and his son.
They revelead that they made a huge investigation regarding every ref. A document from the investigation was leaked and it asked things like if they had been in contact with the son of Negreira or if he had taken them to a football stadium before and if any payments had been involved.
In this press call they didn't say much as they wanted to keep the results of the investigation private. The revealed that if the Spanish Prosecution filed a demand they will give them all the information they had, until then they would be kind of waiting.
They also said two things (did not revel any names)
-1 ref didn't collaborate.
-They found proof that 1 person with governmental attributions did in fact know that these payments were happening at the time but chose to not say anything or denounce it. The current thesis is that this person must be Albert Soler.
A high sports executive of the Government at the time and a former Barca executive during the time they were paying Negreira. According to this article the Spanish FA is considering taking legal action against him
Other recent news regarding the Negreira case:
--According to this article, during the years Barca paid Negreira, he would withdraw 20,000€ monthly in cash. It is not know what he did with the money.
--According to this article the integrity department of UEFA has asked the Spanish FA for all the information regarding the Negreira case.
This is important because it looks like only UEFA and FIFA could give any sporting sanctions.
--According to El Mundo when Negreira stopped being the ref VP, Barca stopped the payments. Then Negreira sent 6 additional bills, one of them of almost 40,000€. Barca answered saying they were not paying him anymore.
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Let me ask if I got this right.
Javier Tebas (who very obviously hates Barcelona and goes against them within his professional purview every time he possibly can for whatever reason) has conspired to elect Soler (a former Barcelona VP) into the position of RFEF president? To what end may I ask?
A piece of advice, for propaganda to work it still has to have at least some sort of underlying logic no matter how tenuous. I am aware that the public at large is gullible to a depressingly large extent but this seems a bit too much even that taken into account...
Could that piece of advice be applied to the very Manichaean and simplistic point of view suggested in your premise? This Tebas-Soler story could be (if true) a potentially very small part of a complicated power struggle in a Real-World scenario rather than the Walt Disney movie for children situation with unidimensional characters that you seem to think about. I would say, skepticism is the way to go for this piece of news rather than easily discarding or accepting anything straight away.
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You didn't get it quite right.
Soler was not a Barca VP, he was the Barca director of institutional relations.
Tebas has been wanting to control the Spanish FA for quite some time. He hates the guts of Villar (the previous Spanish FA president) and Rubiales (the current one). He might have thought Soler was a better man for the position, he might not like Barca but like this man.
Anyway, I was just translating the Spanish news to English, which is basically what I do. I do think this new might be true, as several newspapers and newscast have covered it in Spain, and getting people close to him to positions of influence is something Tebas would definitely do.
((Also, after stepping down from the governmental position Soler has been named the Sports director of a consulting company called 'Acento Public Affairs'. One of the big clients they have is Tebas and La Liga. Proof in this article.Those two seem to have a good business relationship))
There are many others news that I don't find credible and I don't bother with, such as:
--it has been argued that Albert Soler, as a sports government executive, helped maintain low prescription timeframes in the recent Law of Sports so Barca could avoid any sporting sanctions. To me this is bollocks. I also don't think 3 years is a low time. No serious newspaper has given this any traction.
--According to a Salvador Sostres, Laporta needed to go the Bernabeu's bathroom several times during the Clásico for drug-abuse relates issues. Obviously I didn't give this info any credit. No other reporter or newspaper gave it any credit either.
This is not what happened with the Tebas-Soler thing. Several newspapers covered it. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is propaganda.
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yeah this isn't true. Tebas hates Laporta, big difference
He hates both. Laporta for his Superleague plans and the cvc betrayal, barca for political reasons. This guy was in his youth in a right-winged party, a reminiscence of Franco's regime . He still openly supports the right-wing vox party:
You think such a guy doesn't hate the club that supports for most of its history the catalan people in their fight for independence from spain?
A better way to put it would be his job is to run the league, so even if he does hate barcelona(and you are greatly underestimating/misunderatanding spanish politics if you think supporting vox = hating barcelona) he's not gonna act on it without cause. Tebas was closer to their previous hierarchies than he was to Real Madrid for example. He was the guy trying to block PSG from signing Neymar
Getting good now
This part of the article is huge:
The investigation has proven payments since 2001, although everything indicates that the operation began in the 1990s, during the presidency of the late Josep Lluís Núñez. The crime attributed to the club, however, can only be extended until a maximum of 2010 because, previously, the Penal Code did not contemplate it
Up until now there were 2 simultaneous investigations going on regarding the Negreira-Barca case:
--Barca's own internal investigation.
--The prosection's investigation.
--UEFA asked the Spanish FA for all the documentation of this case but so far it seems they haven't started any formal investigation.
The prosecution's investigation has ended and they are about to start legal action against:
--FC Barcelona for 'continued sports corruption'
--Negreira
--Bertomeu and some members of his board.
Other boards are equally involved (such as Joan Gaspart, Joan Laporta and Sandro Rosell) but they are not included because of prescription.
The possible penalties are: between 2 years and 3 months and 5 years in prison, the prohibition of continuing activities from 1 to 5 years, closing of facilities, dissolution of the club, or a fine of thrice the benefits that they got from it. According to this lawyer
Other conclusions of the investigation:
--Payments to Negreira (ref VP) were proven since 2001 but everything indicates that the operation began in the 1990s, during the presidency of the late Josep Lluís Núñez (this is very important regarding the so called "Ligas de Tenerife")
--The crime attributed to the club can only be enforced since 2010 because the Penal Code did not contemplate it before that.
Link 1 and Link 2.
We don't know anything yet form Barca's own investigation. Laporta had a colloquium today (you can read it here) and he blamed the Negreira case on an orchestrated campaign to control the club and points Javier as being behind it and to the Super League as the cause that led to it. He argued that they are presently in a good position so all this scandal was revealed to harm them. He also said that Barca has never bribed a ref and so they will not be harmed by this case.
Additional info:
--Barca are in the middle of a huge infraestructure remodelation called "Espai Barça". Works valued 1,500M€ plus interests. Now their credit rating is expected to drop and they don't have the funding yet, they planned to close it before 31 of March. Proof. They have already started demolishing part of the Camp Nou. Barca's own pictures
--Barca's own internal investigation.
--The prosection's investigation.
--UEFA asked the Spanish FA for all the documentation of this case but so far it seems they haven't started any formal investigation.
The prosecution's investigation has ended and they are about to start legal action against:
--FC Barcelona for 'continued sports corruption'
--Negreira
--Bertomeu and some members of his board.
Other boards are equally involved (such as Joan Gaspart, Joan Laporta and Sandro Rosell) but they are not included because of prescription.
The possible penalties are: between 2 years and 3 months and 5 years in prison, the prohibition of continuing activities from 1 to 5 years, closing of facilities, dissolution of the club, or a fine of thrice the benefits that they got from it. According to this lawyer
Other conclusions of the investigation:
--Payments to Negreira (ref VP) were proven since 2001 but everything indicates that the operation began in the 1990s, during the presidency of the late Josep Lluís Núñez (this is very important regarding the so called "Ligas de Tenerife")
--The crime attributed to the club can only be enforced since 2010 because the Penal Code did not contemplate it before that.
Link 1 and Link 2.
We don't know anything yet form Barca's own investigation. Laporta had a colloquium today (you can read it here) and he blamed the Negreira case on an orchestrated campaign to control the club and points Javier as being behind it and to the Super League as the cause that led to it. He argued that they are presently in a good position so all this scandal was revealed to harm them. He also said that Barca has never bribed a ref and so they will not be harmed by this case.
Additional info:
--Barca are in the middle of a huge infraestructure remodelation called "Espai Barça". Works valued 1,500M€ plus interests. Now their credit rating is expected to drop and they don't have the funding yet, they planned to close it before 31 of March. Proof. They have already started demolishing part of the Camp Nou. Barca's own pictures
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So charges have been pressed implicating FC Barcelona paying €7m corrupting referees. Think its time that this thread gets a new title, biggest scandal in football ever.
@FreckBarca What is interesting is that one Barca based referee that broke rank with the other referees and pressed charges himself (as a victim of the corruption). This got headlines at the time, and can be seen as a good thing. Which it might be, I don't know.
But what it did -- and without any single doubt, why it was done -- was to remove the case from the hands of a prosecutor conducting an investigation of it. Under Spanish law, if charges are pressed, any (and all) ongoing other investigation regarding the same thing must immediately cede and the relevant prosecutors must hand over the information they have obtained to an appointed court, who then will appoint a new prosecutor. In a way, this is somewhat normal, the way I understand Spanish law -- the way its regulated is kind of special. In the UK and at least in Sweden, the process is not as black and white, but there are other mechanism in place that ensures that like 5 different prosecutors and police departments wouldn't be investigating the same crime (which of course could be a hazzel for the suspect). But in Spain its regulated in detail, and anyone on the case must literary drop the pen if they are holding it, and will get anything to do with the case again. Normally, any prosectutor that for example harassed a suspect of a case which already was being prosecuted, would be in misconduct and could lose his or her job and could even commit crimes. But in Spain its a court ordered 'pens down'.
But anyway -- all other referees joined forces and decided to not press charges, because it would delay the ongoing investigation. Someone got to this ref -- of course a public figure -- and for whatever reason convinced him to press charges in Barcelona. I would looooooooooooooooooove to know why.
@FreckBarca What is interesting is that one Barca based referee that broke rank with the other referees and pressed charges himself (as a victim of the corruption). This got headlines at the time, and can be seen as a good thing. Which it might be, I don't know.
But what it did -- and without any single doubt, why it was done -- was to remove the case from the hands of a prosecutor conducting an investigation of it. Under Spanish law, if charges are pressed, any (and all) ongoing other investigation regarding the same thing must immediately cede and the relevant prosecutors must hand over the information they have obtained to an appointed court, who then will appoint a new prosecutor. In a way, this is somewhat normal, the way I understand Spanish law -- the way its regulated is kind of special. In the UK and at least in Sweden, the process is not as black and white, but there are other mechanism in place that ensures that like 5 different prosecutors and police departments wouldn't be investigating the same crime (which of course could be a hazzel for the suspect). But in Spain its regulated in detail, and anyone on the case must literary drop the pen if they are holding it, and will get anything to do with the case again. Normally, any prosectutor that for example harassed a suspect of a case which already was being prosecuted, would be in misconduct and could lose his or her job and could even commit crimes. But in Spain its a court ordered 'pens down'.
But anyway -- all other referees joined forces and decided to not press charges, because it would delay the ongoing investigation. Someone got to this ref -- of course a public figure -- and for whatever reason convinced him to press charges in Barcelona. I would looooooooooooooooooove to know why.
Yeah, what really is very remarkable is how FC Barcelona as a club and its fans and media are handling this. It is completely absurd. But what you talk about here is of course the reason for it, but I will get back to that.
So its known among other things that FCB -- through a transaction mechanism that is designed to hide the transactions (i.e. under the table payments) --- paid €7m to the VP of the reffing body. They got none or at least barely none services for it. When the VP left his job, and the payment for these services coincidentally stopped, the VP -- Negreira -- threatened Barcelona to go public with all irregularities he knew of, unless they kept paying him (i.e. text book illegal extortion). In addition, there are about one million circumstantial facts all looking very grave for Barcelona.
This is what the club's president said today:
"Barca have never bought referees nor had the intention to buy referees. Absolutely never. The forcefulness of the facts contradicts those who try to change the story. We are doing well again, nothing is accidental. It is a campaign aimed at controlling the club. LaLiga does not accept that Barca did not sign the contract with CVC."
Like its mind-boggling, one would at least expect members of this club, fans and media to like at least ask for an explanation? The payments aren't denied. Barca claims that this old fart and his son got paid €7,000,000, under the table, for advising on refs and recording games on TV, but no evidence whatsoever have been presented to prove that they ever got anything from him. And its of course absurd to think its even remotely marketable pay to pay someone €580k for those services to start with, today Barca pays 25k for the same thing.
The only normal reaction would be -- lets toss this guy (Laporta) and the presidents before him under the bus. FCB could claim to be the victim of embezzlement by these guys. Instead, no explanation is given. Whatsoever.
The only reason for why its not done, can only be that a ton more dirt exist -- and the club couldn't survive even a half big scandal.
Just to add in relation to this, imagine that you just lent Barca a billions and billions of money -- against receiving a share of the CL TV money -- and it turns out that the club just bribed the f*** out the refs the last 30 years.
I can guarantee that there are army's of lawyers and bankers waging a war against each other behind the scenes as we speak. This is their worst nightmare.
Wow! Has to be up there with Calciopoli.
Barca haven't even sold part of the club yet, have they? I think hopes of bankruptcy are way too optimistic. At worst they'll probably be like United and join Qatar's collection.
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Nothing more than an all-around shameful club. If someone told me that Barcelona is involved in organized crime tomorrow, I wouldn't even bat an eye.
It’s worse than that if only for the length of time the crime was perpetrated
A big difference is that in this case only one team is involved.
What might actually happen from this if anything ?
Yeah but they have a beach and it’s sunny
Time for the Negreira family to show all them powerpoints and DVDs made for Barcelona over the years, i'm sure they're pretty good for 7 millions !
IMO it's just a case of "don't give an inch unless you are absolutely forced to and if you're forced to then pretend you've been there all along". Unfortunately this seems to be a standard by most PR companies in such situations.
Have we been sold already then? I missed that...