Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!

Niemans said:
The Spanish FFP was necessary given the situation of the clubs in 2012. If you look at the evolution, the results obtained are magnificent.
The problem is that this FFP was not prepared for a pandemic and it is a mistake of LaLiga.
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Yes, this is also my statement.
Alonzo said:
here is of course, another option - that you don’t spend this money, and don’t make the quarterfinals
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This is not an option, because the long term wage system is based on this and it would result in even heavier losses. We saw it last year, playing EL. You can't change long term contracts in one year. Also yes, barca sees itself among the elite clubs and thefore needs to stay on top. All this revenue and tourism money comes from that. We have the biggest social media activity and fans. Without success, they all vanish and with them the revenue. From there, it's only a downfall. Barca won't be an Arsenal 2.0
Iker Quesadillas said:
to what extent does the "Bartomeu wage system" still exist?
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Laporta said recently barca is still 30-40% above it's competitors if I remember correctly. As of today, we have a Masa Salarial around €620m. The goal is €400m, but it's somewhat flexible of course depending on the revenue.
groovyalbert said:
I get that you're not in an ideal situation but this still doesn't explain why you have seemingly spent all the money raised from the levers on players who you can't register.
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Barca generated until today a bit more than €600m with those levers. The transfer balance, again as of today, is -€130m. Thats around 20% of this money spend on players as investments. Far from seemingly all the money, wouldn't you agree? And if we can or can't register those players, we'll see in the near future.
 
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Mogget said:
This is not a good comparison. Even this summer we're seeing how desperate players are to sign for Barca. You think Barca youth products are going to want to willingly leave just because Barca aren't winning a league or CL every year?
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1. I think it is a pretty good comparison, considering that one of those Arsenal players was a Barcelona youth product. Fabregas left Barcelona as a youth because he thought he'd get better opportunities elsewhere. He returned when he thought he'd get better opportunities in Barcelona than at Arsenal.

2. Players are currently still making an effort to sign for Barcelona because Barcelona are still offering high wages. It is hard to see how Barcelona can pay high salaries in perpetuity if they're not at least somewhat successful on the pitch. If they can't compete on wages or titles they're not going to keep the players.

3. Pedri, who is the most proven of these players, is not a Barcelona youth product. He's a guy they bought from Las Palmas. He's only been in Barcelona for two years. There's no real reason to believe he has undying loyalty to the club.
 
stefan92 said:
The big question here is: Does Barca as a club really have that world wide following? They were always a big club, but not as exceptional as in the last 10-15 years, which correlates quite strongly with the Messi era. And it correlates with the development that many fans are more fans of individual players than of clubs.

So in other words, does Barca have the following or do their superstars?
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I think they are huge no matter who plays for them. I know that in this individual focused age having the right names/personalities in your club matters a lot, but interest in Barcelona and their doings hasn't died down just because Messi left. I think no matter what they did, on the player recruitment front they'd still be a top 5 club in worldwide following.
 
Ragnar123 said:
Also yes, barca sees itself among the elite clubs and thefore needs to stay on top. All this revenue and tourism money comes from that. We have the biggest social media activity and fans. Without success, they all vanish and with them the revenue. From there, it's only a downfall. Barca won't be an Arsenal 2.0
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Exactly. Its all driven by ego and entitlement. To leverage the clubs existence, and ability to compete in the future, for the sake of the now, isn’t going to seem reasonable to anyone outside of some Barca supporters.

That said, how you can be so insecure about Barca’s status, and use the same description for the fan base that we would for ‘plastics’, is fascinating.

Good luck to you. It’s going to be a great watch, whatever happens.
 
Ragnar123 said:
Yes, this is also my statement.

This is not an option, because the long term wage system is based on this and it would result in even heavier losses. We saw it last year, playing EL. You can't change long term contracts in one year. Also yes, barca sees itself among the elite clubs and thefore needs to stay on top. All this revenue and tourism money comes from that. We have the biggest social media activity and fans. Without success, they all vanish and with them the revenue. From there, it's only a downfall. Barca won't be an Arsenal 2.0

Laporta said recently barca is still 30-40% above it's competitors if I remember correctly. As of today, we have a Masa Salarial around €620m. The goal is €400m, but it's somewhat flexible of course depending on the revenue.

Barca generated until today a bit more than €600m with those levers. The transfer balance, again as of today, is -€130m. Thats around 20% of this money spend on players as investments. Far from seemingly all the money, wouldn't you agree? And if we can or can't register those players, we'll see in the near future.
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Given the impacts of covid that you mentioned on the club's finances, and the situation with money owed to players, that seems a pretty significant amount to put towards adding new players/contract costs - especially before removing significant costs from the wage bill.
 
News not confirmed so you have to take it carefully.

- The debt goes from the 1,350 million inherited from the previous board of directors to the current 1,200 million.

- Despite the reduction in debt, the club keeps 500 million in cash thanks to the sale of assets.
 
I’m not up to date in the thread so don’t know what has or hasn’t been said however I can only see three possibly scenarios occurring with Barca;

1. The directors know Barca are beyond survival and are just going to go for it for the next few years before they go bust.

2. There’s some Saudi prince involved in the background, waiting for Barca to reach a point where the fans would need to be okay with a takeover to survive. This would also explain why they aren’t bothered by triggering levers.

3. Barca have found a bank ready to bail them out but have kept it quiet for the time being to get out of paying deferred wages and also to get players signing cheaper contracts.
 
Niemans said:
News not confirmed so you have to take it carefully.

- The debt goes from the 1,350 million inherited from the previous board of directors to the current 1,200 million.

- Despite the reduction in debt, the club keeps 500 million in cash thanks to the sale of assets.
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Say billion....it has a much nicer ring to it. Or it it makes you feel better put a load of numbers and use cents
 
Summit said:
Say billion....it has a much nicer ring to it. Or it it makes you feel better put a load of numbers and use cents
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I give that information, then everyone who interprets it as they want.
 
Ragnar123 said:
Laporta said recently barca is still 30-40% above it's competitors if I remember correctly.
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According to Swiss Ramble, Barcelona and Real Madrid wage bills a year ago had a difference of around 16% (Barcelona 443m, Real Madrid 372m). So it is not the wage bill themselves that are very different.

The 'masa salarial' is different as that includes some stuff related to 'amortizaciones', and from what I read in Sport, that is the main reason. But this is a voluntary and 'artificial' decision made by Laporta's board to take a hit on the value of a bunch of players.
 
Couldn’t they have used the situation to regroup for a few years and project an image of a club rebuilding with youth, scouting the best undiscovered talent?
Would have won more and not lost as many fans as they are doing now. Probably likely to be as successful as this team will be.
Kounde and Raphinha aren’t type of players to win a CL.
 
AkaAkuma said:
Couldn’t they have used the situation to regroup for a few years and project an image of a club rebuilding with youth, scouting the best undiscovered talent?
Would have won more and not lost as many fans as they are doing now.
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When is the last time anyone did this and won anything?

(and no, it was not Barcelona 08/09)
 
Niemans said:
News not confirmed so you have to take it carefully.

- The debt goes from the 1,350 million inherited from the previous board of directors to the current 1,200 million.

- Despite the reduction in debt, the club keeps 500 million in cash thanks to the sale of assets.
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How much of that cash already spent, and due to be spent on Busquests, Messi, Alba, Pique owed wages?
 
Barcelona and playing the double or nothing game until they are left with possibly nothing. Wow!
 
Ragnar123 said:
Barca always calculates the financial year with at least CL quaterfinals and 1st-2nd place in LaLiga. Just to reach top4 isn't enough to be profitable on the current wage system Bartomeu introduced.
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This is gross negligence and a guarantee of failure over a long enough timeline.
It's like going all in 100% of the time at 70-80% odds to win and expecting to never ever lose.
 
AkaAkuma said:
Camavinga, Vincius, Rodrigo, Tchouameni…
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Rodrygo and Camavinga were the 14th and 16th most used players in the squad last season. Of the top 11 players used, most are at prime-age or past it (Courtois, Alaba, Benzema, Casemiro, Modric, Kroos, Mendy, Carvajal). Most importantly, all of these players except Camavinga were insanely expensive. If Laporta paid 80m for Tchouameni he should be put in prison immediately.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
Gavi is only turning 18 tomorrow. Fati has barely played football in 2 years and is still a 19 year old; so is Pedri. There's a long way to go for these players to develop and be the core of a title-winning side, and it's very likely that if Barcelona don't compete for trophies, the players will simply move to the Premier League.

This already happened in the PL with Arsenal, they always had a bunch of promising players. Those players did very well for themselves. At other clubs.
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The situation with Fabregas was slightly different, wasn't it? They weren't willing to give their youngster's the same opportunity that Arsenal were because there were better players that the youngster's couldn't displace at that time. Fabregas (for example) could not get the same playing time at Barcelona at that time that he went on to have at Arsenal. I don't see the parallels there.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
Rodrygo and Camavinga were the 14th and 16th most used players in the squad last season. Of the top 11 players used, most are at prime-age or past it (Courtois, Alaba, Benzema, Casemiro, Modric, Kroos, Mendy, Carvajal). Most importantly, all of these players except Camavinga were insanely expensive. If Laporta paid 80m for Tchouameni he should be put in prison immediately.
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I’m not suggesting a like for like strategy but similar,
Vincius was picked up for a large fee at a young age but was one of your main players.

People hate Madrid as much as Barca. But the way you are building your squad, nobody can criticize as it’s not destabilizing rival teams and is focussed on young talent.
Barcas moralism is why so many rival fans despise them. If they were to live up to this image they would follow a similar strategy, spend big or small on up and coming talent.
i don’t begrudge them selling all their future earnings, but spending it to trump teams playing the game fairly for what on the surface is a football manager cheat code approach is nauseating.

All with the aim of getting ahead of the pack in the event of a super league coming to fruition. More than a club my arse.

From never considering shirt sponsorship to this… What’s more, Madrid are tied to this mess as the league is nothing without the rivalry.
 
AkaAkuma said:
I’m not suggesting a like for like strategy but similar,
Vincius was picked up for a large fee at a young age but was one of your main players.
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A big reason why Vinicius Jr. is one of our main players is because we signed Eden Hazard and he turned out to be one of the worst signings in the history of the club. I don't know how many opportunities he actually gets if that doesn't happen, same with Rodrygo. There is the money to have the luxury to try multiple different strategies and hope one works.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Barcelona's strategy is good. But I think they needed to buy some players. I just don't think they needed these players, and certainly not this many players.
 
Ladron de redcafe said:
The situation with Fabregas was slightly different, wasn't it? They weren't willing to give their youngster's the same opportunity that Arsenal were because there were better players that the youngster's couldn't displace at that time. Fabregas (for example) could not get the same playing time at Barcelona at that time that he went on to have at Arsenal. I don't see the parallels there.
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Fabregas signed for Arsenal in 2003. Barcelona were pretty shit at the time, coming off their worst season in the 21st century. They did not really have better players than the youngsters couldn't displaced. He was also a 16-year-old. You can hardly expect any playing time in the first team at that age anyway.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
Fabregas signed for Arsenal in 2003. Barcelona were pretty shit at the time, coming off their worst season in the 21st century. They did not really have better players than the youngsters couldn't displaced. He was also a 16-year-old. You can hardly expect any playing time in the first team at that age anyway.
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I agree with the last bit, but leaving their league position aside, Xavi, Davids, and Cocu were all in the middle there, as were Enrique and Overmars. Not sure whether we are effectively saying the same thing. He had no hope of getting much playing time there because he wasn't going to displace any of these. I don't think he expected to be in the first team right away at Arsenal, either, but the player must have been convinced there was a quicker breakthrough there, and that explains why he'd leave the club.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
A big reason why Vinicius Jr. is one of our main players is because we signed Eden Hazard and he turned out to be one of the worst signings in the history of the club. I don't know how many opportunities he actually gets if that doesn't happen, same with Rodrygo. There is the money to have the luxury to try multiple different strategies and hope one works.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Barcelona's strategy is good. But I think they needed to buy some players. I just don't think they needed these players, and certainly not this many players.
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You make a good point regarding Hazard.

I think Barca needed signings, but think a different approach would have seen less vitriol.
 
RoyH1 said:
I think they are huge no matter who plays for them. I know that in this individual focused age having the right names/personalities in your club matters a lot, but interest in Barcelona and their doings hasn't died down just because Messi left. I think no matter what they did, on the player recruitment front they'd still be a top 5 club in worldwide following.
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Interest in Barca has definitely reduced because Messi left. I wouldn't dream of going out of my way to watch a Barca game on tv now, whereas I went to Barcelona to watch them with Messi about 8 or 9 times.
 
Gee Male said:
Interest in Barca has definitely reduced because Messi left. I wouldn't dream of going out of my way to watch a Barca game on tv now, whereas I went to Barcelona to watch them with Messi about 8 or 9 times.
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No offense but your sample size isn't exactly impressive.
Barsa were huge before Messi is my point. Cruyff wanted to go there, Maradona wanted to go there, Ronaldinho etc etc. Look at how much players pressure their clubs when Barsa starts sniffing around.
 
Is crazy they already have some best young players. They will be for sure 2nd in liga with Busq, Gavi, Pedri, De Jong midfield as most liga teams can't get the ball. They starting to score goals with Auba also. Not a long term squadra, but good for 1 or 2 season. Why they panic? Raphinha is no much better than Memphis. Lewa will not be great success. Barca need player to contribute in play, or stretch opposition with pace, Lewa does neither
 
I don't want Memphis on the team. Center forward is a disaster in every way and in LW slows down the game a lot, is not good at decision making and does not press anything at all.
Raphinha is superior in every one of those aspects.
 
Niemans said:
News not confirmed so you have to take it carefully.

- The debt goes from the 1,350 million inherited from the previous board of directors to the current 1,200 million.

- Despite the reduction in debt, the club keeps 500 million in cash thanks to the sale of assets.
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If that is the case, the levers money has essentially paid down €150m (approx) in debt and given cash flow of €500m. That also means, however that the transfers this year have either been backended or only come in next year, as that is the only way this works.

The question here however, is, is the day to day income covering running costs? How is the debt being financed (with the cash on hand or with income) and what is exactly owed to the players who took deferred wages and when is that due (suspecting this is coming out of the cash to hand.)

Personally, I am still very interested to see how the impact of USD to EUR f/x variances have on this debt pile.
 
Dave Smith said:
If that is the case, the levers money has essentially paid down €150m (approx) in debt and given cash flow of €500m. That also means, however that the transfers this year have either been backended or only come in next year, as that is the only way this works.

The question here however, is, is the day to day income covering running costs? How is the debt being financed (with the cash on hand or with income) and what is exactly owed to the players who took deferred wages and when is that due (suspecting this is coming out of the cash to hand.)

Personally, I am still very interested to see how the impact of USD to EUR f/x variances have on this debt pile.
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- Today the expenses exceed the income in the day to day. The reason is the high salaries and deferred of Piqué, Alba, Busquets, Ter Stegen and FDJ. Also some high amortizations but that will be finished in 1-2 years.

In 2 years possibly these expenses will no longer be and the players who occupy their places will have a much lower salary.

-Barcelona has already spent €180M on the works of Espai Barça As soon as the financing with Goldman Sachs is signed, that money will automatically be transferred from the club's debt to the new financing plan for the works. With what the debt will have already been reduced to about €1,020 million.

- As for the differences between the dollar and the euro and how it affects the debt I do not have any information.
 
Niemans said:
- Today the expenses exceed the income in the day to day. The reason is the high salaries and deferred of Piqué, Alba, Busquets, Ter Stegen and FDJ. Also some high amortizations but that will be finished in 1-2 years.

In 2 years possibly these expenses will no longer be and the players who occupy their places will have a much lower salary.

-Barcelona has already spent €180M on the works of Espai Barça As soon as the financing with Goldman Sachs is signed, that money will automatically be transferred from the club's debt to the new financing plan for the works. With what the debt will have already been reduced to about €1,020 million.

- As for the differences between the dollar and the euro and how it affects the debt I do not have any information.
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You're saying the stadium debt won't be linked to the club but a new company?
 
roseguy64 said:
You're saying the stadium debt won't be linked to the club but a new company?
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Barcelona plans to ask for a maximum of €1,500M to be paid in 35 years. Those €180M, already advanced to start the works, will be integrated there.
 
This club is pathetic right now. I don't understand how you can go spend millions on players and not pay the contracts of the ones you have and instead ask them to take less like FDJ and Braithwhite. I hope these transfers fail for them and they cant register them because this type of stuff is ridiculous.

I wish football would add a salary cap similar to that of the NBA to avoid all of this nonsense from the rich clubs.
 
SportingCP96 said:
This club is pathetic right now. I don't understand how you can go spend millions on players and not pay the contracts of the ones you have and instead ask them to take less like FDJ and Braithwhite. I hope these transfers fail for them and they cant register them because this type of stuff is ridiculous.

I wish football would add a salary cap similar to that of the NBA to avoid all of this nonsense from the rich clubs.
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Barcelona pays the contracts. Tell me what contract they haven't paid?
 
Niemans said:
Barcelona pays the contracts. Tell me what contract they haven't paid?
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Their is very public issues with Barcelona and braithwhite, FDJ, and pique and I would not doubt their are more.

Braithwhite is refusing to leave until his wages are paid.

Barcelona are racing to be able to register their players in the league. This whole situation is complete joke.
 
Niemans said:
The current contract that is the one that is legally valid.
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You've said it a dozen or more times now, it's a shit excuse and I don't know if you believe it but if you do, wow...

Can't pay? Rewrite the contract and it's all ok?

Run out of cash again? Rewrite the contract again.

It's such an easy (lazy) 'out'. If it was United, I'd be slating them.
 
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