Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!

[Niemans]

Oupsie...



Damn, it's almost as if they could have found a way to avoid that. By stopping their insane purchase streak for exemple.

If true, Laporta will look like a total fool starting the season with unregistered 50M+players, unless he sells one more jewel on the crown.

In this case I agree with LaLiga.
Barcelona to sell the television rights had to create a third company.
Barcelona received €500M for the television rights for 25 years.
If you sell the TV rights directly that would count as an annual income of €20M.
By creating that third company, that money counts you the 500M this year. To create that third company Barcelona had to put €67M.

Barcelona received 520M but accounted for 670M. That's the difference.

Barcelona has prepared another 25% of BarcaStudios for €100M and a salary reduction of Piqué and Busquets.

 

[Niemans]

What happens next season? Do they expect their revenue to go up that much in a years time? Or salaries to drop? Aren't they supposed to pay large-ish amount to Pique next summer at the end of his contract?

Pique will possibly leave at the end of this season and Busquets too.

 

[roseguy64]

What happens next season? Do they expect their revenue to go up that much in a years time? Or salaries to drop? Aren't they supposed to pay large-ish amount to Pique next summer at the end of his contract?

They expect lesser salaries and more income. Better CL performance and getting rid of the few massive contracts they have remaining to offset the lost revenue they've sold.

 

[Daslogisch]

Oupsie...



Damn, it's almost as if they could have found a way to avoid that. By stopping their insane purchase streak for exemple.

If true, Laporta will look like a total fool starting the season with unregistered 50M+players, unless he sells one more jewel on the crown.

Where is the popcorn?



There will probably be some kind of solution cause probably even LaLiga organization will think it looks bad if players like Lewandowski come to Spain and then won't be allowed to register. There will be some kind of solution to get out of this situation. But if somehow (some of) these players don't get registered, it will be hilarious. It would be one of the best examples of karma.

 

[Powderfinger]

What happens next season? Do they expect their revenue to go up that much in a years time? Or salaries to drop? Aren't they supposed to pay large-ish amount to Pique next summer at the end of his contract?

The La Liga controls limit the ability to register new players if you are over the salary limit. Existing players always get to stay registered.

I think their strategy is to massively inflate revenues for this one year so that the salary limit increases significantly for one year and they can then register a ton of new signings. In the next couple years their salary limit will crash down again but they won’t need many new signings. And eventually their wages will come into alignment with revenues as the highest earners leave and everybody remaining fits within the new wage structure.

 

[AkaAkuma]

New article on Barcelona this morning in The Athletic. Key bits:










https://theathletic.com/3468740/2022/08/03/barcelona-money-finances-crisis/?amp=1

Rival clubs should be tapping up some of their players if it’s true there’s a lot of uncertainty about big salaries being targetted.
How good is Ter Stegen?

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

I’d argue the opposite. They’re a massive brand and will be fine long term. You are being incredibly over dramatic. People always talk doom and gloom for the large clubs and they end up fine.

Worse comes to worse some kuwaitian dude will buy them over. Corporates money and fame rarely goes under.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

 

[King Kendrick]

In this case I agree with LaLiga.
Barcelona to sell the television rights had to create a third company.
Barcelona received €500M for the television rights for 25 years.
If you sell the TV rights directly that would count as an annual income of €20M.
By creating that third company, that money counts you the 500M this year. To create that third company Barcelona had to put €67M.

Barcelona received 520M but accounted for 670M. That's the difference.

Barcelona has prepared another 25% of BarcaStudios for €100M and a salary reduction of Piqué and Busquets.

So I’m assuming Pique and Busquets have inflated salaries due to deferments.. if that is true, don’t you think it looks like a dick move for the club to say we’re not paying you the full amount we owe you even though you did us a favor?

you can argue rightly or wrongly whether they deserve the amount of money they’re contractually obligated to receive, but contracts are bilateral.

 

[Niemans]

The La Liga controls limit the ability to register new players if you are over the salary limit. Existing players always get to stay registered.

I think their strategy is to massively inflate revenues for this one year so that the salary limit increases significantly for one year and they can then register a ton of new signings. In the next couple years their salary limit will crash down again but they won’t need many new signings. And eventually their wages will come into alignment with revenues as the highest earners leave and everybody remaining fits within the new wage structure.

Sure enough, basically this.

Rival clubs should be tapping up some of their players if it’s true there’s a lot of uncertainty about big salaries being targetted.
How good is Ter Stegen?

I sold him without thinking about it 2 times.

 

[Red the Bear]

Rival clubs should be tapping up some of their players if it’s true there’s a lot of uncertainty about big salaries being targetted.
How good is Ter Stegen?

Not very.

 

[Niemans]

So I’m assuming Pique and Busquets have inflated salaries due to deferments.. if that is true, don’t you think it looks like a dick move for the club to say we’re not paying you the full amount we owe you even though you did us a favor?

you can argue rightly or wrongly whether they deserve the amount of money they’re contractually obligated to receive, but contracts are bilateral.

In fact, both Piqué, Busquets and their representatives were meeting tonight with Laporta, Alemany talking about this matter. Pique has already said he would be willing to lower his salary.

Yes, both have very inflated contracts.

 

[Charlie Foley]

 

[King Kendrick]

In fact, both Piqué, Busquets and their representatives were meeting tonight with Laporta, Alemany talking about this matter. Pique has already said he would be willing to lower his salary.

Yes, both have very inflated contracts.

I’m merely asking you if you yourself think, regardless if they’re on 10M/week or 1K/week, that the club is completely right to ask them to reduce their salaries?

 

[Niemans]

I’m merely asking you if you yourself think, regardless if they’re on 10M/week or 1K/week, that the club is completely right to ask them to reduce their salaries?

Yes, nothing happens because of dialogue and asking. Players can then do whatever they want.

 

[King Kendrick]

Yes, nothing happens because of dialogue and asking. Players can then do whatever they want.

Thanks for that, you just wrote the Busq/Pique reduction so nonchalantly that I was curious where you stood on it. I agree with your statement in principle, but the media in Barcelona have a bad habit of trying to smear players when they go against the clubs wishes.

 

[Niemans]

Thanks for that, you just wrote the Busq/Pique reduction so nonchalantly that I was curious where you stood on it. I agree with your statement in principle, but the media in Barcelona have a bad habit of trying to smear players when they go against the clubs wishes.

This is something very common in Spain. The particularity of Barcelona is that there are many newspapers in Catalonia, televisions, radios and other media following the club daily. And you have to fill in a lot of content.

And at the end of the day, because there is so much media, there is so much talk about any topic that happens that in the end everything is filled with shit.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Thats good

 

[Womp]

Incredible

 

[Anustart89]

Oupsie...



Damn, it's almost as if they could have found a way to avoid that. By stopping their insane purchase streak for exemple.

If true, Laporta will look like a total fool starting the season with unregistered 50M+players, unless he sells one more jewel on the crown.

Is a palanca like a gambeta for executives?

 

[Ragnar123]

In this case I agree with LaLiga.

Without those rules, you wouldn't have to agree to them in the first place.
I understand the reason behind them, because at one point nearly all LaLiga teams had serious debts and they had to install a security system not to endager spanish professional football. But those rules hinder now nearly all of LaLiga teams to build a competitive squad.
14 LaLiga teams are currently under the 1/3-1/4 rule. Even the CVC deal (which is way worse than barca's levers by the way) Tebas gave them, didn't help much. Betis for example has to sell their future matchday income to register everybody. It's not only barca suffering under those rules. 2/3 of LaLiga have difficulties but barca generates klicks, so everybody talking only about us.
It's a dumb decision not to lift those rules during the pandemic and it's effects. You can't compensate unforeseeable 30% revenue loss over night. Tebas shoots in his own foot and the rest of europe laughs.

 

[groovyalbert]

Without those rules, you wouldn't have to agree to them in the first place.
I understand the reason behind them, because at one point nearly all LaLiga teams had serious debts and they had to install a security system not to endager spanish professional football. But those rules hinder now nearly all of LaLiga teams to build a competitive squad.
14 LaLiga teams are currently under the 1/3-1/4 rule. Even the CVC deal (which is way worse than barca's levers by the way) Tebas gave them, didn't help much. Betis for example has to sell their future matchday income to register everybody. It's not only barca suffering under those rules. 2/3 of LaLiga have difficulties but barca generates klicks, so everybody talking only about us.
It's a dumb decision not to lift those rules during the pandemic and it's effects. You can't compensate unforeseeable 30% revenue loss over night. Tebas shoots in his own foot and the rest of europe laughs.

I get the frustration with the rules, especially when you're competing with less financially restricted leagues.

But surely Barcelona don't need to have spent the amount they have this summer, and diverted more of the money from levers towards the main issue facing the club? Even with only a handful of additions you are almost certain to make top 4/qualify for UCL, I don't understand the spending this summer. Especially when these players can't be registered/you're struggling or unwilling to pay preciously agreed player contracts.

Hard to sympathize with your point when the club is spending like what you said is a non-issue.

 

[Ragnar123]

Even with only a handful of additions you are almost certain to make top 4/qualify for UCL.

It's not that simple. Barca always calculates the financial year with at least CL quaterfinals and 1st-2nd place in LaLiga. Just to reach top4 isn't enough to be profitable on the current wage system Bartomeu introduced. To do nothing and simply hope our young players will play the whole year without any injury and low form is even a bigger risk than invest into a competitive team to reach those yearly goals again.

edit:
Not to mention the matchday revenues from tourists. You need to motivate tourists to visit Camp Nou on match day and pay €100-€200 for a ticket and another €100 in merchandise. For that you need a high competitive squad and a few superstars. Barca depends on tourism like no one else, because they pay up to 5 times for a ticket in comparison to the normal socio. That's why matchday income is also a big part of that calculation.

 

[Bluelion7]

Yes, nothing happens because of dialogue and asking. Players can then do whatever they want.

But that’s not totally true. Say you have three doctors who agree, in principle, to defer their salaries at a childrens hospital to the following two years to help the hospital stay afloat.

A bank comes along to lend them money, and they use it to hire even more surgeons.

The surgeons waiting on their money say…”wait, what about our salaries?”

The hospital says: “You can still ask for that money, but if you do the hospital may have to close and the children you care about will be hurt, and we will make sure everyone hates you for it.”

That is the decision you’ve given the players. And yes, it is absolutely unethical to ask them in the manner in which you did. Essentially blackmailing players who have given so much to that club is unforgivable.

 

[Alonzo]

It's not that simple. Barca always calculates the financial year with at least CL quaterfinals and 1st-2nd place in LaLiga. Just to reach top4 isn't enough to be profitable on the current wage system Bartomeu introduced. To do nothing and simply hope our young players will play the whole year without any injury and low form is even a bigger risk than invest into a competitive team to reach those yearly goals again.

i understand what you’re saying, but to anyone who isn’t a die hard Barca fan, this is a level of entitlement you don’t find anywhere else in world football. There is of course, another option - that you don’t spend this money, and don’t make the quarterfinals, or (god forbid)finish outside the top 2. Your club would rather mortgage its future. That’s fine, and may work out, but don’t act indignant when everyone, and Madrid fans more than anyone else, find it hilarious. It’s short termism at its worst.
That said, i do hope you don’t end up having to sell the club. That would be a tragedy. Entirely self inflicted, but a tragedy nonetheless

 

[cyberman]

It's not that simple. Barca always calculates the financial year with at least CL quaterfinals and 1st-2nd place in LaLiga. Just to reach top4 isn't enough to be profitable on the current wage system Bartomeu introduced. To do nothing and simply hope our young players will play the whole year without any injury and low form is even a bigger risk than invest into a competitive team to reach those yearly goals again.

edit:
Not to mention the matchday revenues from tourists. You need to motivate tourists to visit Camp Nou on match day and pay €100-€200 for a ticket and another €100 in merchandise. For that you need a high competitive squad and a few superstars. Barca depends on tourism like no one else, because they pay up to 5 times for a ticket in comparison to the normal socio. That's why matchday income is also a big part of that calculation.

Isn’t the simple answer to your first point..don’t?

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

It's not that simple. Barca always calculates the financial year with at least CL quaterfinals and 1st-2nd place in LaLiga. Just to reach top4 isn't enough to be profitable on the current wage system Bartomeu introduced.

I'm not an expert in Barcelona, obviously. but... to what extent does the "Bartomeu wage system" still exist?

Barcelona had extremely highly paid players like Messi, Griezmann, Suarez, and Coutinho. They are all gone. Dembele and Sergi Roberto renewed on lower salaries, Umtiti spread his wages across many years. Who does that leave, De Jong, Busquets, Pique, Alba, Ter Stegen? Most of them have been around for a long time and it's normal that they have high salaries. I think they have comparable salaries to Courtois, Kroos, Modric, Marcelo, etc.

hope our young players will play the whole year without any injury and low form

You have to admit that if you're concerned about loss of form and injury, buying a bunch of over 30 players is a weird strategy.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

That is the decision you’ve given the players. And yes, it is absolutely unethical to ask them in the manner in which you did. Essentially blackmailing players who have given so much to that club is unforgivable.

It's such a strange situation, where you almost have to argue that asking players to renegotiate their contracts to take lower salaries is a normal thing. I was told in this thread that it's something that happens "all the time in life", but I really have no idea where or when this is a common practice. It's disgraceful from the club.

 

[#07]

 

[antk]

There's seemingly no way to fall but up for giant clubs. When they eventually hit the wall there's no chance they come out of it unscathed.

 

[cyberman]

It's such a strange situation, where you almost have to argue that asking players to renegotiate their contracts to take lower salaries is a normal thing. I was told in this thread that it's something that happens "all the time in life", but I really have no idea where or when this is a common practice. It's disgraceful from the club.

Theyve recently been threatening young players with not playing for the final year of their contract unless they sign with them with full backing of the fanbase as well.
It’s now a disgusting club

 

[RoyH1]

At the rate they're going they're going to start renting the players out to appear at children's parties and corporate events. They have to increase the income drastically.

What I don't get is the need to spend. What is the worst that would happen with the team they had? 3rd, 4th in La Liga? Is that really so bad? They're not winning the CL no matter what they do and this seems a lot of spending and heartache for winning the domestic competition.
I dont' buy the becoming "irrelevant" bit. Liverpool didn't win anything of consequence in decades (and for that matter we're down the same road) and come back and are as big as ever. Huge clubs with worldwide followings don't lose all their juice in such a short window. The Milan example is an exception, not the rule.

 

[crossy1686]

What happens next season? Do they expect their revenue to go up that much in a years time? Or salaries to drop? Aren't they supposed to pay large-ish amount to Pique next summer at the end of his contract?

Once a player is registered they’re registered. So even if they’re negative £100m next season they will still be able to have the currently registered players play, new players would be an issue though unless they balanced books.

 

[crossy1686]

Oupsie...



Damn, it's almost as if they could have found a way to avoid that. By stopping their insane purchase streak for exemple.

If true, Laporta will look like a total fool starting the season with unregistered 50M+players, unless he sells one more jewel on the crown.

Well I for one am shocked and appalled that Barcelona haven’t been able to sell their soul (again). Absolutely no one could have seen this coming, no one I tell you.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

At the rate they're going they're going to start renting the players out to appear at children's parties and corporate events. They have to increase the income drastically.

What I don't get is the need to spend. What is the worst that would happen with the team they had? 3rd, 4th in La Liga? Is that really so bad? They're not winning the CL no matter what they do and this seems a lot of spending and heartache for winning the domestic competition.
I dont' buy the becoming "irrelevant" bit. Liverpool didn't win anything of consequence in decades (and for that matter we're down the same road) and come back and are as big as ever. Huge clubs with worldwide followings don't lose all their juice in such a short window. The Milan example is an exception, not the rule.

Especially because Pedri and Gavi look extremely good, as does Fati. Why not let these players develop. What impels you to put yourself deeper into the mire by spending money that you cannot afford to spend?

 

[stefan92]

I dont' buy the becoming "irrelevant" bit. Liverpool didn't win anything of consequence in decades (and for that matter we're down the same road) and come back and are as big as ever. Huge clubs with worldwide followings don't lose all their juice in such a short window. The Milan example is an exception, not the rule.

The big question here is: Does Barca as a club really have that world wide following? They were always a big club, but not as exceptional as in the last 10-15 years, which correlates quite strongly with the Messi era. And it correlates with the development that many fans are more fans of individual players than of clubs.

So in other words, does Barca have the following or do their superstars?

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Especially because Pedri and Gavi look extremely good, as does Fati. Why not let these players develop. What impels you to put yourself deeper into the mire by spending money that you cannot afford to spend?

Gavi is only turning 18 tomorrow. Fati has barely played football in 2 years and is still a 19 year old; so is Pedri. There's a long way to go for these players to develop and be the core of a title-winning side, and it's very likely that if Barcelona don't compete for trophies, the players will simply move to the Premier League.

This already happened in the PL with Arsenal, they always had a bunch of promising players. Those players did very well for themselves. At other clubs.

 

[groovyalbert]

It's not that simple. Barca always calculates the financial year with at least CL quaterfinals and 1st-2nd place in LaLiga. Just to reach top4 isn't enough to be profitable on the current wage system Bartomeu introduced. To do nothing and simply hope our young players will play the whole year without any injury and low form is even a bigger risk than invest into a competitive team to reach those yearly goals again.

edit:
Not to mention the matchday revenues from tourists. You need to motivate tourists to visit Camp Nou on match day and pay €100-€200 for a ticket and another €100 in merchandise. For that you need a high competitive squad and a few superstars. Barca depends on tourism like no one else, because they pay up to 5 times for a ticket in comparison to the normal socio. That's why matchday income is also a big part of that calculation.

This doesn't really answer my main point though. I get that you're not in an ideal situation but this still doesn't explain why you have seemingly spent all the money raised from the levers on players who you can't register. It seems completely short-sighted. And on top of that, you spent a huge portion of this on a player with absolutely zero resale value, and are wanting to spend more! Surely that money was meant to offset what you mentioned above?

It seems pretty mad to calculate finances based on the assumption of guaranteed top 2 and UCL quarter final guarantees, but I sort of get how you could get into that situation pre-covid. But with the spending you are doing right now, it just seems like you're following the same model. Seriously, what happens if you can't move on the high-wage earners you're desperately needing to?

 

[Mogget]

Gavi is only turning 18 tomorrow. Fati has barely played football in 2 years and is still a 19 year old; so is Pedri. There's a long way to go for these players to develop and be the core of a title-winning side, and it's very likely that if Barcelona don't compete for trophies, the players will simply move to the Premier League.

This already happened in the PL with Arsenal, they always had a bunch of promising players. Those players did very well for themselves. At other clubs.

This is not a good comparison. Even this summer we're seeing how desperate players are to sign for Barca. You think Barca youth products are going to want to willingly leave just because Barca aren't winning a league or CL every year?

 

[Niemans]

Without those rules, you wouldn't have to agree to them in the first place.
I understand the reason behind them, because at one point nearly all LaLiga teams had serious debts and they had to install a security system not to endager spanish professional football. But those rules hinder now nearly all of LaLiga teams to build a competitive squad.
14 LaLiga teams are currently under the 1/3-1/4 rule. Even the CVC deal (which is way worse than barca's levers by the way) Tebas gave them, didn't help much. Betis for example has to sell their future matchday income to register everybody. It's not only barca suffering under those rules. 2/3 of LaLiga have difficulties but barca generates klicks, so everybody talking only about us.
It's a dumb decision not to lift those rules during the pandemic and it's effects. You can't compensate unforeseeable 30% revenue loss over night. Tebas shoots in his own foot and the rest of europe laughs.

The Spanish FFP was necessary given the situation of the clubs in 2012. If you look at the evolution, the results obtained are magnificent.

The problem is that this FFP was not prepared for a pandemic and it is a mistake of LaLiga.
Clubs cannot be forced to recover the losses of the pandemic in a year or else not signings.
After 3 years it seems that Javier Teba has noticed, and from next year this FFP will be flexible.
The losses of the pandemic have to be recovered progressively in the following 4 years. Curiously, after Barcelona had to not renew Messi and sell many levers. Then there will be people who say they help Barcelona and stuff.

The Spanish teams are drowned by the FFP but the good news is that economically they are very well compared to the other leagues and the losses they have had.