Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!

That is what needs to be looked at. It is all great saying, 'well Chelsea were £1.5bn in debt' as they really weren't; all that was really happening was that an individual investor was pumping his own money into his own asset in order to stimulate growth
What needs to be looked at is whether Chelsea could’ve sustained their finances and position in the game without the artificial growth of a billionaire pumping money in and writing it off. The answer is they wouldn’t. And they aren’t financially stable because of how well run they are.

They really were in that debt. The circumstances and what may have happened aren’t really relevant. They spent way above their means. Way, way above.
 
Horrible team, dislikable for so many reasons. But one thing they have proven again to us. It is that you don't need 4 fecking years to rebuild and compete for trophies.
Barcelona had 2 options, not to sign in many years and gradually become a less attractive club for players and earn much less money or do what they are doing now.
Nothing is proven yet; the game has only just begun. The difference is that Barcelona has its back against the wall, as Niemans has explained. It's their last gameplay, their all-or-nothing moment.
Yes, ten years is way too long to rebuild and compete for trophies, especially considering our financial possibilities, but I'd still always choose a sustainable model over a Hail Mary.

I wouldn't want to go to bed at night and need to worry if my club will still exist in a year or two. So, as a better coping mechanism, I could imagine convincing myself that everything would work out fine and, by doing so, coming across as naive, deluded, or ignorant. Deep down, I'm sure even most Barcelona supporters here have moments of doubt.
 
Watching Barca and Juve friendly. Lewa barely involved, Barca excellent for 10 mins but you can't press in the California heat.

Di Maria had been brilliant, and just learned Pogba had an unidentified knee injury. Ha.

Anyway, Chelsea lost 80m on average each season under Abramovich. 80m! Sustainable...ha. biggest mystery of the summer is why anyone would pay what Chelsea cost.
 
Anyway, Chelsea lost 80m on average each season under Abramovich. 80m! Sustainable...ha. biggest mystery of the summer is why anyone would pay what Chelsea cost.

Boehly seems to have a liking for the media limelight -- he's just the opposite of Roman who was always in the background. Chelsea may be just a platform for their own respective personal objectives.
 
Don't know why Barca needed Raphinha anyways. Dembele is ripping apart Juventus here.
 
Just after typing, water break and Barca back behind some wondrous wing play from Dembele...wonder how he'll fit in now.
 
Good for him. It doesn’t matter how the debt was managed or who it benefitted. Your portrayal of the incredibly well run Chelsea is a fabrication. They lost money hand over fist because they spent money they didn’t have. The only reason Chelsea weren’t spent into oblivion is because that debt was written off.
Pfft you are wrong, wrong, and even more wrong. He planned on using all money he spent out of pocket as listed debt from the beginning, he even discussed it in early interviews.

Its S-M-A-R-T … a concept I know is foreign to Barcelona, the villains of world football.
But that’s what this is pure and simple. We had a billionaire that wanted to spend his money enlarging the brand of our football team. It’s his money to do with as he wants. Now we have another billionaire leading a super-billionaire sports group, led by some of the best financial minds on the planet.

While you have a popularly elected ex footballer.

And you aren’t borrowing his money or borrowing from yourself. Youre borrowing from Sachs, and 6th street. So, in part, you’re borrowing from ME, and people like me.
On one hand you have super wealthy patrons finding creative ways to give their team money.

On the other hand you have a team begging for funds from people that would be more than happy to see them fail, and expect every inflated American cent repaid.

You are essentially chastising Chelsea for not being failures in this area. Yes we are only better off than you because the people that back Chelsea either forgive or pay back all debt. Duh! Novel concept: we are SUPER cheating by also paying our players what they are owed. How dastardly we are!
 
What needs to be looked at is whether Chelsea could’ve sustained their finances and position in the game without the artificial growth of a billionaire pumping money in and writing it off. The answer is they wouldn’t. And they aren’t financially stable because of how well run they are.

They really were in that debt. The circumstances and what may have happened aren’t really relevant. They spent way above their means. Way, way above.
There's few rules in the english game stopping owners investing in their team - see Jack Walker with Blackburn. And the few that exist now came in after Abramovich.
The debt was always kind of meaningless with most reports saying it would be written off and I believe it was in the recent sale, chelsea fans can confirm that. Financial stability and self sufficiency was always treated as an aspiration with Chelsea anyway. They didn't try to or claim to be living within their means for most of Abramovich's time in charge.
The whole fair play, living within your means thing is a complete departure from decades of owners pumping money into teams though. And its a total farce and failure to date.
 
Pfft you are wrong, wrong, and even more wrong. He planned on using all money he spent out of pocket as listed debt from the beginning, he even discussed it in early interviews.

Its S-M-A-R-T … a concept I know is foreign to Barcelona, the villains of world football.
But that’s what this is pure and simple. We had a billionaire that wanted to spend his money enlarging the brand of our football team. It’s his money to do with as he wants. Now we have another billionaire leading a super-billionaire sports group, led by some of the best financial minds on the planet.

While you have a popularly elected ex footballer.

And you aren’t borrowing his money or borrowing from yourself. Youre borrowing from Sachs, and 6th street. So, in part, you’re borrowing from ME, and people like me.
On one hand you have super wealthy patrons finding creative ways to give their team money.

On the other hand you have a team begging for funds from people that would be more than happy to see them fail, and expect every inflated American cent repaid.

You are essentially chastising Chelsea for not being failures in this area. Yes we are only better off than you because the people that back Chelsea either forgive or pay back all debt. Duh! Novel concept: we are SUPER cheating by also paying our players what they are owed. How dastardly we are!
I’m not a Barcelona fan. The point remains here that Chelsea aren’t in the financial position they’re in because of how smart they are. They’re in the financial position they’re in because an oil baron gifted them a shitload of money. Literally any club in the world would be in that position if somebody handed them £1.5bn.
 
There's few rules in the english game stopping owners investing in their team - see Jack Walker with Blackburn. And the few that exist now came in after Abramovich.
The debt was always kind of meaningless with most reports saying it would be written off and I believe it was in the recent sale, chelsea fans can confirm that. Financial stability and self sufficiency was always treated as an aspiration with Chelsea anyway. They didn't try to or claim to be living within their means for most of Abramovich's time in charge.
The whole fair play, living within your means thing is a complete departure from decades of owners pumping money into teams though. And its a total farce and failure to date.
It’s not meaningless when discussing the financial position they currently find themselves in. Some Chelsea fans want to pretend it’s because they’re dead smart. Seemingly not realising that clubs like Barcelona are in the position they’re in because they’ve tried to compete with what oil teams did to the game. Chelsea wouldn’t be where they are if they lived by the reality that 99.9% of other clubs do.
 
It’s not meaningless when discussing the financial position they currently find themselves in. Some Chelsea fans want to pretend it’s because they’re dead smart. Seemingly not realising that clubs like Barcelona are in the position they’re in because they’ve tried to compete with what oil teams did to the game. Chelsea wouldn’t be where they are if they lived by the reality that 99.9% of other clubs do.
Chelsea didn't live in the reality that 99% of clubs did. Milan under Burlesconi didn't either. 99% of other teams lived within their means or went bankrupt. Painting Madrid or Barcelona as victims of money in football is too silly an idea to take seriously.
 
Chelsea didn't live in the reality that 99% of clubs did. Milan under Burlesconi didn't either. 99% of other teams lived within their means or went bankrupt. Painting Madrid or Barcelona as victims of money in football is too silly an idea to take seriously.
I’ve never claimed Chelsea were the first. Just the subject of my posts. You think those clubs would be spending as much as they are were it not for oil clubs? Who’s being silly now? No doubt they’d be top or near the top spenders but come on. Football changed when Abramovich started playing with his money.
 
Man I forgot how stacked Barca are. Pjanic, Depay, Raphina, Fati casually come on to replace Auba, Lewandowski and Dembele and Kessie.

Plus Gavi and Pedri look amazing.

No need to keep De Jong, or some of those wingers imo.
 
Including their own fecking out of contract player as a signing :lol:
And someone signed for the B team, nutters.

A team struggling to pay current players next season on their current contract have managed to bring in 4 new players on big wages, one of them soon 34, one of them the lesser of two free Chelsea defenders (their rivals took the better one), and one a winger from 17th placed Leeds United.

Let’s just spin it as genius though and pretend that in 2018 they didn’t spend less money and bring in:

Athur, Malcolm (see Raphinha), Lenglet (see Christensen), Vidal, Emerson.

They’ve made one very good signing is all, and he’s 34 soon.

Their 2014-15 window was absolutely miles better with Suarez, Stigen, Rakatic all coming in with others for around 160m.

This has been a fantastic transfer window, better than any that any other club has had this summer. Stupid to write it off before the season has been played, Comparing Arthur and Malcolm to Raphinha is dumb. Raphinha is much much better. Kounde is a top 2 CB in the La Liga, you give credit to the Lewa signing. Rudiger is better than Christiensen but far more expensive. Kessie is also a solid signing on paper but I know you aren't familiar with him. Barca have had an amazing transfer window and on paper and to say "one good signing" is very stupid because that clearly isn't the case. Kounde and Raphinha and Kessie are great signings, especially Kounde.
You are way off the mark downplaying this transfer window for Barca.

You vastly underrated Raphinha when Bayern and Chelsea were after him. Without him Leeds finish 5th in the championship let alone stay up in the PL.

Kounde is a top 2 cb in la liga, a fantastic signing and while rudiger is better than Christiansen he is also more expensive and Christiansen won’t be starting every match and was gotten for a very fair price. Keeping the second best assister in la liga with dembele at a fair contract value alongside a very underrated Kessie and I’d take this transfer window over 2014.

Suarez is the greatest striker ever for Barca, mats had 4 good years before falling off a cliff and rakitic was immense in 2015 and 2016 before declining with each year being worse than the one before.

To downplay this transfer window is dumb, Barca improved their depth massively while getting what is easily one of the best attacks in the world. This was a much better transfer window than any other club has had this summer and Barca probably have their best team since 2016.
 
This has been a fantastic transfer window, better than any that any other club has had this summer. Stupid to write it off before the season has been played, Comparing Arthur and Malcolm to Raphinha is dumb. Raphinha is much much better. Kounde is a top 2 CB in the La Liga, you give credit to the Lewa signing. Rudiger is better than Christiensen but far more expensive. Kessie is also a solid signing on paper but I know you aren't familiar with him. Barca have had an amazing transfer window and on paper and to say "one good signing" is very stupid because that clearly isn't the case. Kounde and Raphinha and Kessie are great signings, especially Kounde.
You are way off the mark downplaying this transfer window for Barca.

You vastly underrated Raphinha when Bayern and Chelsea were after him. Without him Leeds finish 5th in the championship let alone stay up in the PL.

Kounde is a top 2 cb in la liga, a fantastic signing and while rudiger is better than Christiansen he is also more expensive and Christiansen won’t be starting every match and was gotten for a very fair price. Keeping the second best assister in la liga with dembele at a fair contract value alongside a very underrated Kessie and I’d take this transfer window over 2014.

Suarez is the greatest striker ever for Barca, mats had 4 good years before falling off a cliff and rakitic was immense in 2015 and 2016 before declining with each year being worse than the one before.

To downplay this transfer window is dumb, Barca improved their depth massively while getting what is easily one of the best attacks in the world. This was a much better transfer window than any other club has had this summer and Barca probably have their best team since 2016.

You haven’t signed Kounde.

You‘re massively overrating Raphinha who will likely play second fiddle if Dembele can stay fit.

Christensen doesn’t strengthen your first eleven.

I thought United had an incredible window last Summer & look how that turned out. You should probably hold off wanking yourself silly over this window until Kounde signs & the players look as good as you hope.
 
I’m not a Barcelona fan. The point remains here that Chelsea aren’t in the financial position they’re in because of how smart they are. They’re in the financial position they’re in because an oil baron gifted them a shitload of money. Literally any club in the world would be in that position if somebody handed them £1.5bn.
That’s not true. And there have been quite a few teams either gifted said money, or had it through sheer club size and popularity who haven’t achieved our solidity and success. We don’t just compete for trophies. Marina won footballing executive of the year just last year. We have the best and most productive academy in England. Outside of Romans vanity purchases, we were often net positive on profit in transfer windows. Our creative use of the loan system forced them to change the rules. We have been smart.people like Emenelo were talented team builders. And saying that “anybody can do it with a money toss” is not only inaccurate, it belittles the excellence and hard work of a lot of very good, talented people.

As to Billionaire owners… we’ll, if you don’t have one, then you better find one soon. Worldwide that is the way sports are going. Every sport and every league in America is basically that way already. The owner of the Goleen State Warriors owner paid more than most European teams do in salary JUST in luxury taxes for overspending. His yearly player payroll is predicted to be 420 million next year …. For essentially 8 players…

Because the days of making money by owning a team are soon to be dead. Sports will be the arena of people spending money for bragging rights, that want to show off and a Bil here and there is t a ton of money for them, and also love the sport. Similar really to the people who invest in horse racing and formula one.
 
That’s not true. And there have been quite a few teams either gifted said money, or had it through sheer club size and popularity who haven’t achieved our solidity and success. We don’t just compete for trophies. Marina won footballing executive of the year just last year. We have the best and most productive academy in England. Outside of Romans vanity purchases, we were often net positive on profit in transfer windows. Our creative use of the loan system forced them to change the rules. We have been smart.people like Emenelo were talented team builders. And saying that “anybody can do it with a money toss” is not only inaccurate, it belittles the excellence and hard work of a lot of very good, talented people.

As to Billionaire owners… we’ll, if you don’t have one, then you better find one soon. Worldwide that is the way sports are going. Every sport and every league in America is basically that way already. The owner of the Goleen State Warriors owner paid more than most European teams do in salary JUST in luxury taxes for overspending. His yearly player payroll is predicted to be 420 million next year …. For essentially 8 players…

Because the days of making money by owning a team are soon to be dead. Sports will be the arena of people spending money for bragging rights, that want to show off and a Bil here and there is t a ton of money for them, and also love the sport. Similar really to the people who invest in horse racing and formula one.

Quit sugar coating it. You are still chelski, always will be. Like City, you can't rewrite history
 
Chelsea financial neutral :lol:

Forget the initial gifts, even from 2014-2019, they topped the charts where owner injected money.



433 million between 2014 and 2019, post that covid losses. Only reason they are not in trouble is because of some rich billionaire. Not because they are some smart cookie.
 
You haven’t signed Kounde.

You‘re massively overrating Raphinha who will likely play second fiddle if Dembele can stay fit.

Christensen doesn’t strengthen your first eleven.

I thought United had an incredible window last Summer & look how that turned out. You should probably hold off wanking yourself silly over this window until Kounde signs & the players look as good as you hope.

Kessie, Raphina, Lewandoski, Christensen & retaining Dembele is a solid window and definitely strengthens them as a team/squad. But moving away from Pep & Cruyff and tiki-taka? Plus Lewa & Auba in the squad, too very different high-profile strikers, will be interesting to see how Xavi manages playing time.
 
Kessie, Raphina, Lewandoski, Christensen & retaining Dembele

Squad wise, sure, it’s solid.
It’s all about whether or not they have really improved the starting 11, Lewa for sure.
Yet Christensen over Pique? Not for me, don’t think he’s anything special.
Kesse over De Jong, god no, makes them worse for me.
I think Raphinha is a solid buy, but if Dembele stays fit I think he plays second fiddle. But yeah, him staying fit is very unlikely, so it’s good cover and alternative.

And why count Dembele? He was always part of their squad, and probably their best player in the second half of the season.

I think they’ve had a solid window, but some would make out they’ve just done a 2014 and brought in Stigen, Suarez and Rakatic the way they are talking.
 
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That’s not true. And there have been quite a few teams either gifted said money, or had it through sheer club size and popularity who haven’t achieved our solidity and success. We don’t just compete for trophies. Marina won footballing executive of the year just last year. We have the best and most productive academy in England. Outside of Romans vanity purchases, we were often net positive on profit in transfer windows. Our creative use of the loan system forced them to change the rules. We have been smart.people like Emenelo were talented team builders. And saying that “anybody can do it with a money toss” is not only inaccurate, it belittles the excellence and hard work of a lot of very good, talented people.

As to Billionaire owners… we’ll, if you don’t have one, then you better find one soon. Worldwide that is the way sports are going. Every sport and every league in America is basically that way already. The owner of the Goleen State Warriors owner paid more than most European teams do in salary JUST in luxury taxes for overspending. His yearly player payroll is predicted to be 420 million next year …. For essentially 8 players…

Because the days of making money by owning a team are soon to be dead. Sports will be the arena of people spending money for bragging rights, that want to show off and a Bil here and there is t a ton of money for them, and also love the sport. Similar really to the people who invest in horse racing and formula one.
You're absolutely deluded if you think there's anything smart in the way Chelsea have been run. It doesn't matter that you have had savvy people in place in the organisation (which is obviously the case), the key determining factor is that you reached this position by creating debt and losing money on a yearly basis. Those were the pillars of your "growth", take those away and leave the same governance and people in the corporate structure and you're nowhere near where you are currently.
 
Squad wise, sure, it’s solid.
It’s all about whether or not they have really improved the starting 11, Lewa for sure.
Yet Christensen over Pique? Not for me, don’t think he’s anything special.
Kesse over De Jong, god no, makes them worse for me.
I think Raphinha is a solid buy, but if Dembele stays fit I think he plays second fiddle. But yeah, him staying fit is very unlikely, so it’s good cover and alternative.

And why count Dembele? He was always part of their squad, and probably their best player in the second half of the season.

I think they’ve had a solid window, but some would make out they’ve just done a 2014 and brought in Stigen, Suarez and Rakatic the way they are talking.

As always time will tell.
Ous can play on the other side as well. I'm expecting both Ous and Raphina to start the season with Fati and Torres on the bench for now. Pique was more injured than he was actually fit. I really doubt it will be better this season. And if Kounde arrives, Christensen will be backup. Xavi wanted Kessie personally. So he has plans for him. His physique is something unique in our squad and Xavi wanted this kind of player. So I wouldn't compare Frenkie with Kessie, but see him as an alternative in games where his skillset is needed.
 
And there have been quite a few teams either gifted said money, or had it through sheer club size and popularity who haven’t achieved our solidity and success.
And who would they be? Since Abramovich came in Chelsea sit third on ‘net’ spend. Who has been gifted £1.5bn by their owner and not done what Chelsea have done?
 
Are you sure that's how it works? Because at least in Germany the clubs indeed own their own assets. Being a member means you get a vote, but it doesn't mean you own a piece of the club. I assume it's the same in Spain.

To be honest, I'm not sure. It just seems strange that, if the club were to ever be 100% sold, all of it would just end up as an investment into the club for the new owner.
 
Don't know why Barca needed Raphinha anyways. Dembele is ripping apart Juventus here.
Dembelé hasn't had a single full good season free of injuries in 5 years. What he did vs Juventus in a friendly game is not his usual performance even when fit.
 
I'm not sure what the terms are, but sounds like the Spotify deal is going well: That marketing spend helped blow a hole in the company’s finances, with Spotify posting a quarterly loss of €194 million ($197 million). The company is banking on sharp increases in revenue both for subscriptions and advertising to help balance those losses out.
 
To be honest, I'm not sure. It just seems strange that, if the club were to ever be 100% sold, all of it would just end up as an investment into the club for the new owner.

Clubs will probably only sell control if they are desperate and even if they do they'd probably negotiate certain conditions with the buyer that guarantee a financial benefit for the club, at least in the short term.
 
AS saying that Kounde to Barsa is almost a done deal. If true, then Barsa has not only had a hell of a window but is now very much a favorite for La Liga and in Champions League contention again. They have much more depth than Madrid up front.
Mes que un lever is delivering the players. It's up to Xavi now.
 
This Barca team is just stupid.

MaTS
Dest - Araujo - Kounde - Alba
Kessie - FDJ - Pedri
Dembele - Lewa - Torres

Neto
Roberto - Christensen - Pique - ?
Pjanic - Busquets - Gavi
Raphinha - Auba - Fati

Garcia
Umtitti
Puig
Depay
Braithwaite​

Their B team is probably the same level that their A team was 2 years ago..

They probably need a full back mind (Alonso or Azpi I guess). You'd have thought Umtiti, Depay and Braithwaite are on the way out, even then the depth is stupid.
 
Quit sugar coating it. You are still chelski, always will be. Like City, you can't rewrite history
Rewrite history? We were bought by a billionaire vetted and approved both by your country and the premier league. Roman is technically an Israeli citizen now. His youngest children are American. He acquired his first primary asset through a legal program run by America and Great Britain. Are you saying we should be ashamed of our team, which by all accounts has been above board in every way, based SOLELY on where our previous owner was born?
 
Don't they owe Messi money still? If so, how does that work out? Pay him eventually or give him a % in the club?

Could they not sell Frenkie and owe him still?
This Barca team is just stupid.

MaTS
Dest - Araujo - Kounde - Alba
Kessie - FDJ - Pedri
Dembele - Lewa - Torres

Neto
Roberto - Christensen - Pique - ?
Pjanic - Busquets - Gavi
Raphinha - Auba - Fati

Garcia
Umtitti
Puig
Depay
Braithwaite​

Their B team is probably the same level that their A team was 2 years ago..

They probably need a full back mind (Alonso or Azpi I guess). You'd have thought Umtiti, Depay and Braithwaite are on the way out, even then the depth is stupid.

Neto and Mingueza can leave in the next few hours. Barcelona will try to sell or give the freedom card to several players.
The stupidity that Bartomeu has created cannot be undone in a day.

P.Torre can be a great player in a short time.
Barcelona are negotiating for Alberto Moleiro as well, although he will be on loan in Las Palmas, as pedri was done.
 
You haven’t signed Kounde.

You‘re massively overrating Raphinha who will likely play second fiddle if Dembele can stay fit.

Christensen doesn’t strengthen your first eleven.

I thought United had an incredible window last Summer & look how that turned out. You should probably hold off wanking yourself silly over this window until Kounde signs & the players look as good as you hope.

And you should hold off playing down a transfer window before we’ve seen what happens. And this window is a hundred times better than what United had last summer. Barca have the most depth they’ve had in nearly a decade. Raphinha already has looked great but it is jsut preseason. But absolutely idiotic to downplay this window when no other club has had as good of one as Barca have had this summer. Your hate for Barca clouds your judgement and nobody is saying Barca are winning CL this year but this has inarguably been a fantastic transfer window for them with a ton of options.
 
I’ve never claimed Chelsea were the first. Just the subject of my posts. You think those clubs would be spending as much as they are were it not for oil clubs? Who’s being silly now? No doubt they’d be top or near the top spenders but come on. Football changed when Abramovich started playing with his money.
I doubt they'd spend as much were it not for oil clubs. I just dont think chelsea are responsible for barcelonas lack of self control. Its not like they're paupers, i dont think living within their means is a totally unreasonable, crazy expectation.
 
They've pretty much bought half a new team. Not bad for a club that can't register their players.
 
And who would they be? Since Abramovich came in Chelsea sit third on ‘net’ spend. Who has been gifted £1.5bn by their owner and not done what Chelsea have done?
There’s… lots, but let’s take Shad Khan. He has sunk nearly 600 million of personal money into Fulham, and that is only over 8 years, so spending-wise about the same pace as Chelsea. Except they kept registering losses, never put in the right structure, cant stay in the Prem, much less compete for the biggest trophies in the world. Khan is an NFL owner, with major resources …. all equaling failure.
 
can't wait to see how the fuk they pay for all these new guys and their salaries.....even dropping the wages from Frenkie if he leaves won't cover adding 4-5 new players
 
Rewrite history? We were bought by a billionaire vetted and approved both by your country and the premier league. Roman is technically an Israeli citizen now. His youngest children are American. He acquired his first primary asset through a legal program run by America and Great Britain. Are you saying we should be ashamed of our team, which by all accounts has been above board in every way, based SOLELY on where our previous owner was born?

You shouldn't be ashamed of your team but you should have enough self awareness to note that you just got lucky in the same way that Man City did instead of pretending that you are different to the other billionaire playthings.
 
can't wait to see how the fuk they pay for all these new guys and their salaries.....even dropping the wages from Frenkie if he leaves won't cover adding 4-5 new players

Griezmann's departure alone nearly covered most of the new wages. He earned around € 23m net, while most of the new players aside from Lewy earn around €5-6m net.
 
There’s… lots, but let’s take Shad Khan. He has sunk nearly 600 million of personal money into Fulham, and that is only over 8 years, so spending-wise about the same pace as Chelsea. Except they kept registering losses, never put in the right structure, cant stay in the Prem, much less compete for the biggest trophies in the world. Khan is an NFL owner, with major resources …. all equaling failure.
Says lots. Mentions one.
 
Guess when they get in serious financial difficulties and relegated from their league or ‘doing a rangers’

I’m guessing 2 years