If the source of this post was not one of the two biggest Messi fanboys from the Messi Ronaldo thread and someone who rates Neymar higher than Ronaldo, it might have had some credibility.
Ballon d'Or 2021 | Lewandowski robbed again
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
If the source of this post was not one of the two biggest Messi fanboys from the Messi Ronaldo thread and someone who rates Neymar higher than Ronaldo, it might have had some credibility.
Lewa deserves this and we all know.
He's already the winner in our hearts.
Danny “well wide” Welbeck hardly gets a mention in these conversations- why is that?
Salty sham
. Why's everyone going on like Messi's already won it anyway? Isn't it tonight?Salty sham
Messi won it in the summer, it was decided right after the copa america final, we all know this.
Now the Ballon D'or is back to being a French journalists' popularity contest I'm 100% certain Messi will win it for gracing their farmer's league with his presence.
It's the other way round. Nobody would play Lewandowski as a striker if he could do what Messi can do. You would try to bring him into positions from which he can influence the game more. Same way Ronaldo moved further up front as his overall contribution degressed. There's a reason why playmakers were always rated higher than any other position in football.
I do what?
Also, the irony that somebody who is as tribal as you labels somebody else a "fan boy". I mean, of course I am a fan boy. But I'm a fan boy of the football Messi produces, you're a fan boy of the person. I lose interest the moment a player regresses to a level that I don't enjoy watching any longer and just turn to the next one while you will support him unconditionally. That's very commendable by you but to be honest I very much doubt that he or anyone else in football really deserves the kind of loyalty.
Another couple of awards will be given?
Have a hard time believing its actually Ballon Dor 2020, you are supposed to have voting for that.
Maybe they voted in a hurry, but seems unlikely.
Have a hard time believing its actually Ballon Dor 2020, you are supposed to have voting for that.
Maybe they voted in a hurry, but seems unlikely.
Messi is not even the best or second vest player on his team let that sink in.
So by your logic Lewandowski or any other forward, Ronaldo included, should never ever win any of these awards because virtually all playmakers are more capable than them at all of those things. Cool. So after Bramble > Zidane hears ago we are now going to Grealish > Lewandowski or something now.
What about Messi in defense though, does the fact he couldn’t even defend at Maguire’s level mean he should automatically give up all his awards? Or is defense again less important than the bunch of stats Messi currently excels at?
It's purely French journalists? Why is it given so much credibility of it's only journalists from one country
He is actually on 14 goals from 13 games now, so could quite easily beat his own 41 goal record. It won’t be enough to beat Messi next year either even if PSG win only Ligue 1 and get knocked out at Last 16 with Messi scoring 25 goals in all competitions all season, but should get him a good 2nd/3rd place again.
Lewandowski has basically zero chance to win Ballon Dor next year either, if they extend Ballon Dor to include Qatar World Cup.
Ah indeed, forgot it’s a World Cup year. Playing for Poland he has no shot indeed.
I wish we would just not take the Ballon d'Or serious. It's a newspaper popularity contest. Why would anybody outside of France care?
I love how he says 'bring him into a position where he can influence the game more' for a player who scored 50 goals
"The two new awards will be the Best Club of the Year and the Best Striker of the Year."
they will give Lewandowski a consolation prize
they will give Lewandowski a consolation prize
It's purely French journalists? Why is it given so much credibility of it's only journalists from one country
It's not only French journalists but it's run by a French football magazine and has always been heavily biased to certain players and positions.
Part of the voting criteria isn't related to the specific year either, its stuff like the player's overall talent.
Could well be. It should be little surprise that a major tournament winner has shaped these awards.
It's been the case for a while now, with the odd exception.
Huh? Blaming the individual for the teams faults is a double edged sword. The same argument can be made for lewa. The truth is they were both great. Messi more in last season and lewa this season. Lewa should have a 2020 ballondo'r to his name. that's the real controversy here. Most years there are a couple favorites people fight over, but outright cancelling the award was a dumb decision.
I know man.Like I said we're all sympathetic towards lewa cause he was so far ahead in 2020 and they cancelled the damn thing. But the weak squad argument can be made for a Barca squad that's literally on its knees right now. They almost won the title cause of him last season as well.
The whole premise is fecked. What journalist or other professional footballer has the time to regularly watch more than one league or even just more than a couple of teams? So in the end, you go by names or FIFA video game ratings or whatever. It's a completely pointless endeavor.
This is getting a bit chaotic. Cristiano Ronaldo was no striker for the majority of his career. In his prime he was a great dribbler and created many chances for his team mates from the left wing. Zidane was never a striker. Moreover I didn't say that every playmaker is better than all other players. Moreover, playmaker is not a position, it is a role. You can be a playmaker from the striker position or from the wings or from the defense. The position doesn't matter. What matters is the stuff you do on the pitch, the impact you have on the match. And Messi's far outweighs that of Lewandowski. Because in the end, Messi is an absolute freak of nature in terms of ability and Lewandowski, even if he is himself a truly world class player, is not. He is the best player and ruthless spear head of a well oiled machine that 90% that's far too good for it's domestic competition. He can allow to be anonymous for the majority of the game and wait for moments others created for him. He was never simultaneously the main creative force and the main scorer for his team. Take Lewandowski 2021 out of Bayern and play him in the same team as Messi 2021 and literally nobody would even entertain the thought that he's better than him.
This is just faith passed off as analysis. Messi is the annointed God-king walking on earth and nothing mortals can do could ever hope to compare to His Works.
The level of desperation of Ronaldo fans is something else today, hiding all behind Lewandowski
If Ronaldo were a top candidate for Ballon D'or along with Lewa, we all know how they would all start calling Bundesliga a farmers league, 1-team league.. How dominating La Liga, PL or Serie A is not comparable to dominating Bundesliga..
If Ronaldo were a top candidate for Ballon D'or along with Lewa, we all know how they would all start calling Bundesliga a farmers league, 1-team league.. How dominating La Liga, PL or Serie A is not comparable to dominating Bundesliga..
Ronaldo was never a great creator when he was winning these awards, he was a magnificent goalscorer first.
Your view that this is an award for ‘creating chances’ and ‘being a great dribbler’ is admittedly one of the strangest takes I have seen here. But that is probably a take in this case because you are absolutely obsessed with Messi, not your genuine opinion.
By your logic someone like Grealish is heads and shoulders above Lewandowski, even someone like Maddison, Havertz is much better and more worthy of awards as a footballer than him. It’s a very weird opinion to have even if everybody is entitled to have one. Not to mention that it basically completely discounts the importance of any other position in football.
Not sure how that's relevant to the discussion, but most likely, yes, despite the fact that may it irk you.
You do realize that spamming emotional sarcastic posts does nothing but shed light on your poorly masked anger.
Wonder if you will ever post something with at least the tiniest bit of substance. You have brought up literally nothing that's even remotely interesting. Just lazy arguments.
I mean, if you don't believe and want hard facts, the stats are there, go check them yourself. Messi is in a statistical cluster of his own regarding attacking stats. So if you want, it can be statistically proven that Messi is one of a kind or as you label it "the annointed god-king walking on earth".
Genuine question, if the award was not cancelled in 2020, do you reckon Messi should have got it back then too? Honest answer, please (I’m pretty sure you will say 100% yes but just wanted to check).
It's nice that you're explaining my logic to me but no, someone like Grealish or Havertz is not above Lewandowski going by it, no worries. I also don't think that I should be the one having to explain why I rate playmakers over strikers, generally speaking. Historically they have always been rated much higher than the Lewandowskis of the past.
I'd also like you to address my arguments, not attack me as a person (obsessed with Messi and what not). I'm not reducing your opinion on your nationality either, am I? You have much more reason to be biased towards Lewandowski than I have towards Messi. In the end, I'm neither a Barcelona fan nor Argentinian.
The reason why this important distinction is being repeated is because of Ronaldo/Lewa fans' obsession with goals and making comparisons assuming Messi is also a pure striker.
Messi's goal numbers is comparable to the top, most productive scorers of the game while he is also a GOAT level playmaker, dribbler. Your Grealish example does not make any sense and sounds weird tbh.
The popularity contest going as predicted.
Grealish and Havertz have far more successful dribbles and carry the ball forward a lot more than Lewandowski. Arguably Grealish impacted the game way more at Villa than Lewandowski ever did for Bayern or Dortmund. So yeah, if that is the criteria, Grealish quite clearly > Lewandowski.
Don’t think there’s that much difference between playmakers and strikers historically. When you are top tier player it doesn’t matter what position you play. Both Ronaldos and Pele are considered amongst greatest ever and they were basically pure strikers at their best too, so again the view of ‘playmakers being rated much higher’ seems to really be just your view.
I don’t even like Lewandowski all that much either, just admire him as a player. Him being Polish has very little to do with that, he is recognized as a footballer with or without Ballon d’Or. It may actually be more annoying for me to see Messi win it by default than see Lewandowski specifically miss out.
It depends on the criteria. IMO the Ballon D'Or isn't very consequent. If it was about the best player, I would have given all awards since 2009 to Messi and 2008 to Ronaldo.
But I get that this isn't really entertaining and also not really in line with the team aspect of football, so personally I would always just hand the prize to the best player of the team who won the biggest trophy. So I would have given it to Lewandowski in 2020, Robben in 2013, Iniesta/Xavi in 2012/2010/2008, probably Neuer in 2014, etc.
Thing is, they mixed it up as they pleased so I think the Ballon D'Or is a pretty shitty trophy these days.
No you don't, you hate Bayern and the Bundesliga as it is. Don't try to hide that side of you
But yea, your arguments about the best player clearly favour playmakers more than goalscorers or defenders. If Messi was scoring at the rate Lewandowski is (as he was in previous seasons), you would have a clear argument of him being better because he is doing what Lewandowski is doing and even more, but right now Lewandowski is far far ahead in terms of goals + assists so I would still consider Lewandowski, as good as Messi is on the ball at playmaking.
And this doesn't even consider how poor Messi is off the ball, Lewandowski might not be the greatest presser for Bayern but he does put a foot in if needed, and he's amazing at holding the ball up, which gives Bayern an extra avenue to release the ball by playing long balls towards him.
Pele and Ronaldo pure strikers? Oh come on. Have you ever watched footage of them? You can't be more incorrect than that.
Moreover, I didn't say far more successful dribbles -> better player. Those are strawman arguments. Of course Lewandowski is a better player than those two as he has much more impact doing the things he does than they doing the things they do. But we aren't comparing him to very good players, you are claiming he's the best footballer in world football. Which he is not. No shame in that.
We should have started the discussion with this which would have saved both of us about 30 minutes of the day.
No you don't, you hate Bayern and the Bundesliga as it is. Don't try to hide that side of you
But yea, your arguments about the best player clearly favour playmakers more than goalscorers or defenders. If Messi was scoring at the rate Lewandowski is (as he was in previous seasons), you would have a clear argument of him being better because he is doing what Lewandowski is doing and even more, but right now Lewandowski is far far ahead in terms of goals + assists so I would still consider Lewandowski, even as good as Messi is on the ball at playmaking.
And this doesn't even consider how poor Messi is off the ball, Lewandowski might not be the greatest presser for Bayern but he does put a foot in if needed, and he's amazing at holding the ball up and gives Bayern an extra avenue to release the ball by playing long balls towards him.
Yes, I hate Bayern with a passion, no denying that. But I still admire the players. I was a great fan of Robben for example and still think he's the best player behind Messi and Ronaldo that I've seen play.
And yes, Lewandowski is great at many things, especially his hold up play. I always said his technique reminds me a bit of Berbatov - just exceptional. I also think he's a worthy nominee, just not worth of the win for the reasons I mentioned. I'd still be happy for him if he wins it as some kind of "lifetime achievement", similar to Modric
Anyway, I also think that the defensive contribution is generally a weak argument in this case. As you said, Lewandowski isn't particularly good in this regard, too. Messi is notorious for not pressing but strangely he still has more pressures per 90 than Lewandowski this season.