In any case he's not a worthy winner imo
Ballon d'Or 2021 | Lewandowski robbed again
- Thread starter Samid
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In any case he's not a worthy winner imo
It's between him and Lewandowski. Either imo is fair. Lewa should at least have a 2020 Ballon D'or in retrospect whether or not he wins this one. Messi had a great individual season for Barca and had a great copa.
It’s Danny Wellwide.
Be real lad
3rd in domestic league and battered out of Europe. Obviously this is an individual award and he had an individually excellent season but can't help but feel he's riding a wave of reputation here. All in all i don't think i care really, individual awards are often nonsense
So an individual award awarded to a player for having a great individual period is that player riding a wave of reputation. You can argue about other players being more deserving, but to discard Messi because of his team's failure, especially when we can now see how bad they are without him, and it was basically him dragging them to whatever position they were at last season. Context is important.
Having an execellent indivdual season is kind of the point of the award. If it's supposed to be fair.
The COPA title obviously plays a big role, he ended up best player of the tournament despite his bad final. Lewa didn't have a single win with Poland during the euro and ended up last of the group, he was injured for the most important CL when Bayern lost to PSG, that's the tie breaker imo (even if he's not responsable for those bad performances). If it wasn't for the COPA, Lewa would have easily won.
Undeserved for sure. 2nd undeserved one for him overall.
I’m just glad it’s not Jorginho
Feel for Lewandowski. He has been by far the best player in the world the last two years and did not get this award as the first Pole ever because they cancelled it and Messi basically had a few good games at Copa America, even though Lewa himself was great at Euro in an awful team.
I'd vote for Kante.
A midfielder getting it is hardly football acknowledgement these days.
A midfielder getting it is hardly football acknowledgement these days.
I will not say Messi just had few good games at Copa.
Messi had an excellent 2020/21, especially this year onwards till Copa, when he had the most number of goals and assists.
Argentina and Barcelona were basically give the ball to Messi and pray, at least Argentina played a solid anti-football filled with play acting and fouling at every instance, and a phenomenal Emi Martinez in the goal, which helped them not crumble under pressure like Barcelona.
We tend to overlook how Messi and Cristiano were basically saving the ass of Juve/Portugal and Barcelona/Argentina in Euros and Copa, and club season. Especially at club, given both sides had incompetent coaches.
Lewandowski had similar thing with Poland, not saying he had easy, and I am not one of those who say Bundesliga is easy hence Lewa scores so much, when he is basically scoring at same rate in UCL and Euros.
The way I see it Lewandowski had a much higher number of goals (41 v 30) while providing a similar number of assists (7 v 9) in the league in fewer games (29 v 36). They had the exact same number of CL goals while Lewa’s team went further in competition and would have very likely made it even further had he been healthy for QFs against Paris.
The other difference between them was that Messi played for one of the two strongest teams in South America and hence was able to be successful at Copa America while Lewandowski played for one of the weakest teams at Euro and despite his heroic efforts (he scored 3 out of 4 goals that we scored) he was not able to get them anywhere due to their inept midfield and defense.
Messi had a good year, Lewandowski had a historic year beating a 40-year old record that many thought couldn’t be broken - and he did that while being injured for 5 games.
It’s quite obvious these days that you can’t win this without getting a WC/Euro medal if you aren’t Ronaldo or Messi, which is a bit tedious to be honest. A player like Lewandowski has zero chance because he will never be successful with his national team and what he does for Bayern can at most give him second best after Messi/Ronaldo in any given year. A lot is said about him being robbed in 2020 but I’m almost sure it would have gone to Messi anyway.
Modric got a Ballon Dor without a WC medal. Made the final though. Personally I agree that Lewandowski deserved it, but I don't think most goals scored should be the only metric. I think though with Lewandowski breaking Mullers bundesliga record he deserves it.
Which was the other one?
Most of the people think 2010 was undeserved because they think Sneijder deserved it.
Some people 2019 was deserves by Van Dijk.
He didn't have a great individual season.
Messi was much better player than Sneijder that season though. Sneijder was great at inter and won the trebl, but that Inter side was a collective not the Sneijder show. If Robben had converted that chance he would've won it probably.
I disagree on both accounts tbh. Especially so on Van Dijk.
Messi scored in 15/21 league games for a decent at best Barca side in 2021. Assisted in 3 of those 6. He practically had 3 games with no productivity. 23 goals and 8 assists.
Won Copa America and Copa Del Rey(scored 2 in the final). Was the best player at Copa and had 9 goals/assists in 7 games.
Started poorly at PSG but also had injury problems since the Copa. 3 goals in 3 CL games is very good.
Lewandowski won a league title. His club just got pumped 5-0 out of the German cup early on with him playing.
Lewandowski has scored in 24/27 league games in 2021. Scoring 36 and 7 assists.
Both have been excellent in 2021, people also are overplaying Messi's Ligue 1 form. Hes started 4 games and was subbed off injured in one of them.
Both are deserving off the award taking everything into consideration, the way people act like Lewandowski clearly deserves it over Messi like in 2020 is absurd.
Won Copa America and Copa Del Rey(scored 2 in the final). Was the best player at Copa and had 9 goals/assists in 7 games.
Started poorly at PSG but also had injury problems since the Copa. 3 goals in 3 CL games is very good.
Lewandowski won a league title. His club just got pumped 5-0 out of the German cup early on with him playing.
Lewandowski has scored in 24/27 league games in 2021. Scoring 36 and 7 assists.
Both have been excellent in 2021, people also are overplaying Messi's Ligue 1 form. Hes started 4 games and was subbed off injured in one of them.
Both are deserving off the award taking everything into consideration, the way people act like Lewandowski clearly deserves it over Messi like in 2020 is absurd.
He did. It was only because of him that Barcelona got near a title challenge and he was la liga topscorer as usual and and then he was copa player of the tournament.
Lewandowski won't win it next year either, even with another year like this, because world cup and Poland.
Before someone ask, you can be sure that the Ballon Dor deadline will be extended to include the world cup.
Before someone ask, you can be sure that the Ballon Dor deadline will be extended to include the world cup.
Let it go. He doesn't play for you anymore.
Messi was mediocre against Real Madrid this year, his team lost. He was decent against PSG, his team lost 1-4. In the second game he was playing well, then missed a penalty that would have put Barcelona up 1-2, which killed any comeback momentum. He was good against Atletico, but did not score or assist. The game ended 0-0.
When Lukaku does shit like this people correctly identify it as what it is.
When Lukaku does shit like this people correctly identify it as what it is.
Great reply, such an asset to the forum.
People who actually watched both players regularly will know that this is a more than understandable choice. Lewandowski is absolutely world class but he's simply not the freak of nature Messi is. It's boring since we've had this for 12 years and people are tired of it but at least for last season it's still true. Everything aside Messi still was the only player on the planet doing Messi things. If a player not named Messi performed to this level, there would be no discussions.
Of course Lewandowski generelly deserves a Ballon d'Or, no question, same way Xavi, Iniesta or Robben deserved one. But I doubt you can have watched the plays Messi regularly pulled off last season and be outraged by this decision. He's still too good for that.
Of course Lewandowski generelly deserves a Ballon d'Or, no question, same way Xavi, Iniesta or Robben deserved one. But I doubt you can have watched the plays Messi regularly pulled off last season and be outraged by this decision. He's still too good for that.
This argument is literally just mysticism.
Slight difference is that Lewandowski is a striker leading the line in an extremely well drilled team. Messi is a playmaker in a dysfunctional team still maintaining a comparable goal record to the most prolific scorers in the world. It's old but there still is nothing comparable to that.
We take it for granted but Messi last season still lead most of attacking stats in world football on top of his goal and assist record. Key passes, chances created, dribbles, etc. There's nobody else capable of that.
Nah. It shows in statistics and heat maps as well. He's in a cluster of his own.
I agree. But I was talking about the ones which is generally debated by people.
Yup, Van Dijk actually failed when facing Messi, conceding three goals, until he got his ass bailed by his teammates.
Barcelona lost to better teams. I agree botching his penalty against PSG was one of his cock ups. Difference between Messi and Lewandowski is that Messi has a burden of having to do much more, he's not a pure striker. And that Barcelona side was bang average.
I think both Messi and Lewandowksi deserve to win this one. I am not expecting anyone else other than these two.
Heat maps against Getafe.
It kind of depends, should the Ballon D'or go to the best player to the one who one the most with his team or should go to player who had the best individual season? For me since it's an individual award it should to to the player who was best individually.
Lewandowski has been the best player in the world for 18-24 months but will end his career without a single Ballon D’Or to his name.
Clownworld.
Clownworld.
I'm pretty confident he could reproduce that against the likes of Stuttgart and Hertha BSC as well.
Yeah, Liverpool won the CL and Van Dijk was key to their defense but Messi(who apparently can't do it without Xavi and Iniesta) scored 51 goals and got 22 assists in 50 games in a Barcelona side that was average for it standards. And then of course there is stuff like dribbles, chances created, passes completed etc. Even Van Dijk agreed that Messi deserved to win it.
If we are only going to look at statistics in an "additive" way (i.e. who has the most of a given parameter after a certain amount of time) then we are probably going to miss some things.
Messi scored 30 goals in La Liga last season, and was the top goal scorer. This is a fact. It is also a fact that the second and third goalscorers were Karim Benzema and Luis Suarez at 23 goals each. But Suarez and Benzema were both playing for teams with much lower attacking output. Both Real Madrid and Atletico scored 67 goals, Barcelona scored 85. That's an 18-goal difference. Messi himself can't account for all of that (he accounts for less than half the total goals). Both RM and Atletico had much better defensive records.
What does this mean? Suarez's goal tally was actually his second lowest since he's been in La Liga, and this time without having to compete for goals with Messi, or anyone. Would we have to conclude that he had his worst individual season? Or that Atletico, a defensive team under Simeone, is not a place for a striker to get the most goals?
Barcelona have topped attacking stats almost every season. They've now lost Messi, Griezmann, and Suarez. Aguero and Dembele have barely played this season; Braithwaite is injured, and Fati is a teenager coming out of a year-long injury. And they're at 16 goals. That's two less than Atletico, one less than Real Sociedad (at the top of the table), and three less than Sevilla. Statistical noise, basically. Somehow, after the bottom fell out of the team, they can still score goals.
Barcelona finished last season in third place, closer to 4th than to the top of the table. It was their worst finish in ages. There's a good chance that this season they end up in the same position. What then? Does that mean that Messi did something amazing last season by dragging them to 3rd, but that can be replicated by Memphis and a teenager coming out of an injury?
Messi scored 30 goals in La Liga last season, and was the top goal scorer. This is a fact. It is also a fact that the second and third goalscorers were Karim Benzema and Luis Suarez at 23 goals each. But Suarez and Benzema were both playing for teams with much lower attacking output. Both Real Madrid and Atletico scored 67 goals, Barcelona scored 85. That's an 18-goal difference. Messi himself can't account for all of that (he accounts for less than half the total goals). Both RM and Atletico had much better defensive records.
What does this mean? Suarez's goal tally was actually his second lowest since he's been in La Liga, and this time without having to compete for goals with Messi, or anyone. Would we have to conclude that he had his worst individual season? Or that Atletico, a defensive team under Simeone, is not a place for a striker to get the most goals?
Barcelona have topped attacking stats almost every season. They've now lost Messi, Griezmann, and Suarez. Aguero and Dembele have barely played this season; Braithwaite is injured, and Fati is a teenager coming out of a year-long injury. And they're at 16 goals. That's two less than Atletico, one less than Real Sociedad (at the top of the table), and three less than Sevilla. Statistical noise, basically. Somehow, after the bottom fell out of the team, they can still score goals.
Barcelona finished last season in third place, closer to 4th than to the top of the table. It was their worst finish in ages. There's a good chance that this season they end up in the same position. What then? Does that mean that Messi did something amazing last season by dragging them to 3rd, but that can be replicated by Memphis and a teenager coming out of an injury?