Bad Berba's Back

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Red Defence said:
When you repeat their words it's a reasonable assumption...yes.

If you think Rooney shouts at players just to fire them up you're in another world. Or deluding yourself.
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You have repeated the opinions of about 10 other people on this thread, does that mean you aren't thinking for yourself? When there is only about 3 opinions to be had, you can't really say someone isn't thinking for themselves when they take one of the three said opinions.

I didn't say Rooney shouts at players only to fire them up, I mentioned that I gave him the same shit when he had a go at Nani last season. The slight difference with Rooney is the same as when Ronaldo was here. People give them shit about their attitude but soon forgot about it because of how important they are/were for the team.

It's like at my work. We have a guy that's attitude is absolutely shit, but he is fecking great at his job so people kind of ignore his inadequacies. If he was mediocre at his job he'd have been fired years ago because of his attitude.
 
finneh said:
You have repeated the opinions of about 10 other people on this thread, does that mean you aren't thinking for yourself? When there is only about 3 opinions to be had, you can't really say someone isn't thinking for themselves when they take one of the three said opinions.

I didn't say Rooney shouts at players only to fire them up, I mentioned that I gave him the same shit when he had a go at Nani last season. The slight difference with Rooney is the same as when Ronaldo was here. People give them shit about their attitude but soon forgot about it because of how important they are/were for the team.

It's like at my work. We have a guy that's attitude is absolutely shit, but he is fecking great at his job so people kind of ignore his inadequacies. If he was mediocre at his job he'd have been fired years ago because of his attitude.
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You think Berbatov's been mediocre at his job this season?

Any chance you're getting a bit carried away by two - count them - two bad performances?
 
Ole'sbodyguard said:
I don't think we are agreeing if you think he is being scapegoated and that his performances of this season are being dissected to the nth degree.

Berbatov's getting pretty decent treatment on here.

If you want to see scapegoating and dissection to the nth degree have a gander at any JOS and until recently Evans, Park and Carrick threads.
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You haven't interpreted my posts as I wanted you to.

I have already said that scapegoating was the wrong word to use, given that we won.

My point was that criticism of him is always forthcoming, far more quickly, than many other players within our squad.

I have no disagreement with you this evening that he was poor. But have a look at some of the posts in here. It's as though some posters have been lurking in the shadows, waiting for the moment to come out with the same old grievances.

I would personally prefer that any such threads were reserved for an actual prolonged dip in form - not after two poor games in what has otherwise been a very good start to the season.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You think Berbatov's been mediocre at his job this season?

Any chance you're getting a bit carried away by two - count them - two bad performances?
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a) I think Berbatov has been poor since Bolton (nearly half the season)
b) I'm talking long term. I think Berbatov has been shit at his job since he arrived and has a shit attitude to match. In any other industry he'd have been sacked ages ago.
 
finneh said:
Exactly. Also most people seem to be saying "we all know he can't play up front on his own", clearly making excuses as to why he was so shocking today. This clearly is bollocks since Fergie must think he can play up top on his own, or else he wouldn't have played him. I think I'll bow to his superior knowledge on this one.
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Phew, that's a relief, I thought you'd force SAF to admit his lineup was wrong.
 
finneh said:
a) I think Berbatov has been poor since Bolton (nearly half the season)
b) I'm talking long term. I think Berbatov has been shit at his job since he arrived and has a shit attitude to match. In any other industry he'd have been sacked ages ago.
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I think you're wrong but thatt certainly explains your vehemence in this thread.

I think you're one of a few who have been absolutely desperate to stick the boot in, despite his decent start to the season. Which is a shame really but at least you got your chance eventually, eh?
 
For the record, I loved Berbatov at Spurs. He was one of my favourite players in the Prem and I always felt he'd be great at United. When it became known that we were definitely interested in him, I was delighted.

On the transfer deadline day, I was glued to SSN, watching the developments. I was fuming when I heard City were trying to highjack the deal and when it was finally announced he had signed for us, I danced a little jig around the living room.

However, he has been completely underwhelming at United and for a long time, I kept the faith in him, "He'll come good, he's too good a player for this kind of form to last" I kept saying to anyone who would listen.

But now, I'm at the stage where I think enough's enough. There were always excuses for him before (he didn't have a full pre-season with us due to his transfer deadline signing, he's feeling the pressure of the £30million price tag etc etc) but there's no excuses for him anymore.

As one of the older, more experienced players out there, he should be one of the players leading by example, encouraging his young team-mates, not blasting them every time they misplace a pass (let's get it straight, his own passing wasn't up to much tonight).

The goal Obertan scored was a goal that Berbatov should have scored, you don't need a strike partner to do that kind of thing but when Berba got into a similar position, he made an absolute arse of it.

If he had been stunning for us over the last couple of seasons then I'd be saying "this is just a dip, nothing to worry about" but the fact is, his pre-season and start to this season was the exception to the norm and that's just not good enough.
 
Feed Me said:
You haven't interpreted my posts as I wanted you to.

I have already said that scapegoating was the wrong word to use, given that we won.

My point was that criticism of him is always forthcoming, far more quickly, than many other players within our squad.
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Maybe now.

In previous times it took Rafael being out of position once for people to have a go at his performance as if our other options at fullback never get caught out of position, when hardly a game goes by where that isnt the case. There are some players more prone to critisism yes, but Berbatov gets no extra than Nani last year or Rafael in recent months.
 
Ekeke said:
Maybe now.

In previous times it took Rafael being out of position once for people to have a go at his performance as if our other options at fullback never get caught out of position, when hardly a game goes by where that isnt the case. There are some players more prone to critisism yes, but Berbatov gets no extra than Nani last year or Rafael in recent months.
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The fact that this thread has been made and has a decent number of advocates would suggest that there is something in my claims...
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I think you're wrong but thatt certainly explains your vehemence in this thread.

I think you're one of a few who have been absolutely desperate to stick the boot in, despite his decent start to the season. Which is a shame really but at least you got your chance eventually, eh?
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Not the reason for my opinion at all and I'm lucky enough to have it put eloquently below:

TheMancRedDevil said:
For the record, I loved Berbatov at Spurs. He was one of my favourite players in the Prem and I always felt he'd be great at United. When it became known that we were definitely interested in him, I was delighted.

On the transfer deadline day, I was glued to SSN, watching the developments. I was fuming when I heard City were trying to highjack the deal and when it was finally announced he had signed for us, I danced a little jig around the living room.

However, he has been completely underwhelming at United and for a long time, I kept the faith in him, "He'll come good, he's too good a player for this kind of form to last" I kept saying to anyone who would listen.

But now, I'm at the stage where I think enough's enough. There were always excuses for him before (he didn't have a full pre-season with us due to his transfer deadline signing, he's feeling the pressure of the £30million price tag etc etc) but there's no excuses for him anymore.

As one of the older, more experienced players out there, he should be one of the players leading by example, encouraging his young team-mates, not blasting them every time they misplace a pass (let's get it straight, his own passing wasn't up to much tonight).

The goal Obertan scored was a goal that Berbatov should have scored, you don't need a strike partner to do that kind of thing but when Berba got into a similar position, he made an absolute arse of it.

If he had been stunning for us over the last couple of seasons then I'd be saying "this is just a dip, nothing to worry about" but the fact is, his pre-season and start to this season was the exception to the norm and that's just not good enough.
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Pogue Mahone said:
I think you're wrong but thatt certainly explains your vehemence in this thread.

I think you're one of a few who have been absolutely desperate to stick the boot in, despite his decent start to the season. Which is a shame really but at least you got your chance eventually, eh?
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Eventually!? I was really glad to see Berbatov have a good month and a half of form with us, but that form was a rarity.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I think you're wrong but thatt certainly explains your vehemence in this thread.

I think you're one of a few who have been absolutely desperate to stick the boot in, despite his decent start to the season. Which is a shame really but at least you got your chance eventually, eh?
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That's totally unfair Pogue.

The guy's in his THIRD season now. He hasn't only just signed for us.

I think some people have been holding back in order not to appear knee-jerk because we know players can take a while to find their feet at United but, as I say, he's nearly 30. We should have been seeing a player at the peak of his powers for the last couple of years.

Are you seriously suggesting there's a lot more to come from Berbatov at this stage?

Can't see it myself. This sulky bastard who slags off everyone else despite being the most ineffective player on the pitch in most of his games is what we're likely to see more often than not, I would suggest.
 
All this nonsense about him not caring, it's beyond retarded. The same people
that are saying he doesn't care are also lambasting him for getting frustrated with his team mates and himself, which is it? Because it cannot be both. if you want to see someone who doesn't care have a look at Adebayor; he walks around smiling like a simpleton and collects his pay-check. Berbatov was back to defend numerous times in the game and he always makes himself available to pass to.
 
TheMancRedDevil said:
For the record, I loved Berbatov at Spurs. He was one of my favourite players in the Prem and I always felt he'd be great at United. When it became known that we were definitely interested in him, I was delighted.

On the transfer deadline day, I was glued to SSN, watching the developments. I was fuming when I heard City were trying to highjack the deal and when it was finally announced he had signed for us, I danced a little jig around the living room.

However, he has been completely underwhelming at United and for a long time, I kept the faith in him, "He'll come good, he's too good a player for this kind of form to last" I kept saying to anyone who would listen.

But now, I'm at the stage where I think enough's enough. There were always excuses for him before (he didn't have a full pre-season with us due to his transfer deadline signing, he's feeling the pressure of the £30million price tag etc etc) but there's no excuses for him anymore.

As one of the older, more experienced players out there, he should be one of the players leading by example, encouraging his young team-mates, not blasting them every time they misplace a pass (let's get it straight, his own passing wasn't up to much tonight).

The goal Obertan scored was a goal that Berbatov should have scored, you don't need a strike partner to do that kind of thing but when Berba got into a similar position, he made an absolute arse of it.

If he had been stunning for us over the last couple of seasons then I'd be saying "this is just a dip, nothing to worry about" but the fact is, his pre-season and start to this season was the exception to the norm and that's just not good enough.
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This. I could add a lot more but I don't think tonights the time to put the boot in. Lets just hope this is a temporary blip this season and forget the previous two seasons eh.
 
Why the feck does this thread exist? He was pretty shite tonight, poor against Spurs. He's still one of our three best players this season (Nani and Scholes the other two). Cut him some slack.
 
TheMancRedDevil said:
Must say, I've noticed a bit of the bad Berba creeping back in for the last few games. What was noticably different about him during pre-season and the early part of this season (when he was excellent) was the way he was playing with a smile on his face and instead of going into his little hissy fit mode, he just laughed things off when they didn't go to plan.

I noticed last week against Stoke he was giving it out to one or two of his own players (Hernandez especially at one point) in the same way he used to give it out in previous seasons (Nani seemed to be his favourite target most of the time).

I think he's going back to his old ways unfortunately. The shitty attitude is back and I find that having a shitty attitude tends to manifest itself with things not going your way.
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This is what I said in this very thread two days ago. Tonight just confirmed it.
 
Red Defence said:
Rio and Vida shout at their team mates and it's called "organising the defence".

Rooney shouts at his team mates (a common occurence) and the other players are at fault.

Berbatov shouts at his team mates and all hell breaks loose.

Stop being influenced by crap and extremely irritating Sky commentators...learn to think for yourself.
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Again, that's an ex United player you're slagging

If you can't tell the difference between the productive way the defence organise, and the bratish way Berbatov chastises often when he's the weak link, you need your head testing

Pogue, I admire your Berba PR job, but we shouldn't just put up with that attitude, its not on. Thankfully it doesn't seem to have affected the young lads, but it can't help them
 
Red Defence said:
I take it from that you just made it up.
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No, I mean the way he gives out his little hissy fits when a player doesn't pass him the ball exactly when and where he wants it (usually because he's offside, on tonight's evidence) and things like that.

That is my main complaint with Berbatov and many, many others have noticed it, too.

Some just shrug it off and say things like "Meh, they'll get over it".

Personally, I think it's a shitty attitude and when he's giving it out to young players, he comes across as a big bully to me and I'd slap his substantial forehead if I were one of those younger players and tell him to shut the feck up and concentrate on doing his own job properly but they all seem a bit intimidated by him for some reason.

Or perhaps they're just more professional than he is, despite being up to ten years younger.
 
He was utterly fecking rubbish tonight.

I dont really care about his attitude, it's his end product I'm concerned with and that was an absolutely shocking performance.
 
Eyepopper said:
He was utterly fecking rubbish tonight.

I dont really care about his attitude, it's his end product I'm concerned with and that was an absolutely shocking performance.
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It's all connected though. The attitude affects his performance.

He was playing brilliantly in pre-season because he had a smile on his face all the time and he looked like a totally different player.
 
I have to say, I also don't care about Berbatov's perceived 'attitude'. I think the stick he gets from people who think he doesn't care is utterly ludicrous. It's obvious he cares and is desperate to make his stint at United successful.

I simply think that he's never really fitted with our style of football in any sort of prolonged sense. He doesn't offer any penetration like ALL of our recent attacking first teamers over the last 7 or 8 years have.

I feel that we're in a really excited transitional period, and I fear that Berbatov might end up becoming 'dead wood' throughout this process.
 
Unfortunately, it does seem Berbatov is slipping back into inconsistency.
It's a massive shame as I was made up he had started to produce in the earlier part of the season, and I was one of his biggest cynics and denouncers.
It's all well and good United fans sticking up for him and claiming he has talent, which he has bags full, but if he isn't producing, which he simply isn't and hasn't for a good month and half then I cannot see how people can continue to defend the undefendable.
Some good performances along with some truly great ones capped by the Liverpool hat-trick in the first ten games of the season followed by another ten of mediocre and even poor performances does not make a good season, nor does it justify at least 3/4 of his time with us in nearly three years playing at this sub-standard level...
He needs to raise his game once more and fast.
 
Feed Me said:
The fact that this thread has been made and has a decent number of advocates would suggest that there is something in my claims...
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Because he played shite and people have said so?

No. He did play shite, it should be said so. The vast majority of people realise he was once again tasked with a role that doesnt suit him and he'd probably have played a lot better with a partner.
 
Ekeke said:
Because he played shite and people have said so?

No. He did play shite, it should be said so. The vast majority of people realise he was once again tasked with a role that doesnt suit him and he'd probably have played a lot better with a partner.
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Fine. The role doesn't suit him. I know this. You know this. Fergie surely must know this and Berba himself must know this.

How about just doing your bit for the team then and not getting on your own teammates' case every five minutes?

Rooney was played out left when Ronnie was here but did he complain? Did all the other players complain when they had to cover defensively when Ronnie went on his runs forward leaving a gap on the right?

Sometimes you're asked to do a job for the team and you should just do that job to the best of your ability without sulking all over the shop.
 
I don't mind him bollocking players when they need it.

I am always the moaning bastard on the pitch but to do it when a team mate does not pass you the ball while you are five yards offside is shit and does him no favours.

First time I have seen Scholesy bollock someone on the pitch tonight I hope he thinks about that.

Anyone notice that pass Scholes made to him right near the end as well. We all know Scholes has immense vision, but he played a pass to him when he was five yards offside and then gave him a shrug and a dirty look.

I actually think he did it on purpose he was so pissed off with him.
 
Where's smiley happy Berba gone? I miss him :(
 
I actually thought Berba has been playing well for the most part, he hasnt got on the scoresheet but thats ok. His play in general has been good and Berba is not the sort of player who will ever do well up front by himself.
 
Lets stop the Knee jerkness, He isnt a lone front man and never will be so it isnt surprising when he looks as poor in these games, He hasnt scored in 6 but has been amoung our best players for most of those games, hernandez took all the credit for the winner at stoke but berbatov's persistance allowed the goal to happen but that wasnt seen in print once over the following week. His strenghs are in holding possesion and playing a weighted pass for another attacking player, not in waiting in the box and finishing off a chance.
 
I actually think he played well, he was unlucky with his last chance it would have been a great goal
 
Had a tough job tonight but thought he was a bit of a cnut about it.

The guy really doesn't help himself when he shrugs his shoulders and looks pissed off.

Win the ball back for fecks sake. You can do it!
 
He must have really enjoyed his good scoring patch and being the hero despite saying he prefers to make goals than score them, so I am sure this run of scoreless games is making him feel unhappy and perhaps even worried that he's slipping into prior seasons form. The main issue though is it seems to be chipping away at his game in general in the last 2 matches, hopefully he gets back on track against Wolves.
 
It's pretty much the usual as far as attitude goes. Main reason I don't care for him. His forms much improved this year but I can't stand watching him scream at everyone on the field like a fecking child.

In the second half he was passed a ball at the top of the box. If he has squared to Scholes, it was an easy goal. Instead he tried to bend one around the keeper. Scholes just looked at him for a moment and it was over. If the situation was reversed, (Or maybe any player other than Scholes) he would have had a shit fit.

It's just tiresome and ugly coming from someone of his age and experience.

Sometimes I wonder where the breaking point will be between him and Nani
 
His attitude seems to bother many on here. And yet, the one person this should be a problem for has not done or said anything /that we know of/. Or at least there's no notable change in Berba's attitude. Him and Wayne bitch just about all the time, most of the time rightfully so.

Bebe, Rafael, partially Obertan, sometimes Park, till not too long ago Nani....all tried and dribble through the entire defense and do a Ronaldo. Well, they are not him. They screw the whole build up

Also, many wank over Barca's style of play. I think Berba fits that style perfectly and having the youngsters waste chance after chance is getting on his and Wayne's nerves.

I play on weekends. There's nothing more frustrating than not getting the ball when you make a run. Instead, having some kid failing to see the pass, or taking a shot from a mile away...you get the point

Berba never had a go at Scholes or Giggs, didn't he? Fletcher or Carrick, either. Vidic or Rio. Wayne or Owen, so...?

Get over yourselves. He is a senior player. It is only normal
 
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