[Adnan]

He actually turned 22 today.

And you somehow think that supports your arguement? That he only got appearances in games we weren't taking seriously? In a competiton he weren't trying in, but is somehow, based on those 5 appearances, good enough to have been playing regularly for us a season ago?

There's a reason why players aren't just thrown into the starting XI at a club of our magnitude. He hadn't even nailed down a starting position at CB for Villa until around October. You still haven't told me why he wasn't picked up by a PL club for the season.

He's where he needs to be. Gaining first experience playing regularly. Let's look at him next season.

So i'm correct Borthwick Jackson is 22..

I never said he should've been thrown into the first team. But he showed enough to stake a claim in the squad and fight for a first team place.

How can I tell you why he wasn't picked up by a PL club. I can only speak of what i've seen from the player in the games he's played in.

 

[ivaldo]

So i'm correct Borthwick Jackson is 22..

I never said he should've been thrown into the first team. But he showed enough to stake a claim in the squad and fight for a first team place.

How can I tell you why he wasn't picked up by a PL club. I can only speak of what i've seen from the player in the games he's played in.

And that matters why? I was a day out . But if you're going to be pedantic about it, you might want to learn how to use an ellipsis...

Yeh you did:

the player showed he belonged in the first team by his performances..

If he's staking a claim, then he's going to play. If he isn't going to play regularly, then he needs to be on loan, which is exactly where it is, where he needs to be. He's definitely got the talent, but it takes more than physical and technical ability to make it at one of the biggest clubs in the world.

So to clarify, you can't tell me why other managers didn't want him, but you can tell me what would have happened if Jose wasn't here, and another manager was in his place? Awfully convenient, that.

 

[Adnan]

And that matters why? I was a day out . But if you're going to be pedantic about it, you might want to learn how to use an ellipsis...

Yeh you did:



If he's staking a claim, then he's going to play. If he isn't going to play regularly, then he needs to be on loan, which is exactly where it is, where he needs to be. He's definitely got the talent, but it takes more than physical and technical ability to make it at one of the biggest clubs in the world.

So to clarify, you can't tell me why other managers didn't want him, but you can tell me what would have happened if Jose wasn't here, and another manager was in his place? Awfully convenient, that.

So your counter argument is "why didn't other EPL managers want him" maybe we sent Axel to Villa knowing our ex championship winning captain Steve Bruce would actually play him. Bruce being there was possibly the reason he ended up at Villa, don't you think?

We've sent players on loan to EPL clubs in the past and it's actually ended up being bad for their development. Guiseppe Rossi spent time on loan at Newcastle warming the bench before he did very well in La Liga. Fosu Mensah looks a shadow of the player that showed potential as a first team player before we sent him to develop at Palace/Fulham where he's stagnated and looks worse than average players like Christie.

Do you think Mourinho would've thrown Rashford straight into the first team bypassing under 23 football?

 

[Gavinb33]

Guy I work with is Villa home and away and he thinks he is the best CB they have, and there form has suffered when he has been injured

 

[ivaldo]

So your counter argument is "why didn't other EPL managers want him" maybe we sent Axel to Villa knowing our ex championship winning captain Steve Bruce would actually play him. Bruce being there was possibly the reason he ended up at Villa, don't you think?

We've sent players on loan to EPL clubs in the past and it's actually ended up being bad for their development. Guiseppe Rossi spent time on loan at Newcastle warming the bench before he did very well in La Liga. Fosu Mensah looks a shadow of the player that showed potential as a first team player before we sent him to develop at Palace/Fulham where he's stagnated and looks worse than average players like Christie.

Do you think Mourinho would've thrown Rashford straight into the first team bypassing under 23 football?

You're just going to ignore everything else I've said and dilute my "counter argument" to that are you. Ha, alright.

Yes, we sent him to a championship side with an ex player because we had assurances he will play. If we had assurances Tuanzebe would play for a PL club, he would've gone there instead. We didn't though, because those other managers didn't think he was yet good enough to give those assurances, or did not think he was an improvement on what they had. This player you think was good enough last season to be getting regular football for us, who would've been at least to the level of Lindelof by now, was not yet deemed good enough to play for those clubs below us in the league. But nah, it's just mean ol' Jose that won't play him.

Probably not. He also wouldn't have played the likes of Varela, McNair, Blackett, CBJ etc either. This notion that because Rashford was thrown in and was successful, every Tom Dick and Harry should get the same treatment is just silly. 5 decent games isn't going to change that. You want to lean on historical evidence to explain why a PL move is a bad idea, but want to ignore the plethora of recent evidence showing youth footballers given early exposure to our first team that have already disappeared from relevance.

Giving him some actual, sustained first team football will give him the opportunity to develop properly, and with a bit of luck we will have a top class CB on our hands soon.

 

[LR7]

They’ve signed Tyrone Mings I can’t see Axel been 1st choice when he comes back from injury .

Guy I work with is Villa home and away and he thinks he is the best CB they have, and there form has suffered when he has been injured

Like Gavin, I work with a Villa fan who thinks Tuanzebe is their best CB and can’t wait for him to get back from injury as apparently, they’ve been awful without him. Stats don’t always tell the whole story regarding goals conceded with and without him. I trust those watching him week in week out to give a fairer assessment on him than those basing their judgements on a few snippets. Villa fans absolutely rave about him and that makes me excited and hopeful that he can come back and make an impact here. Nothing is guaranteed and none of us have a crystal ball but there is nothing wrong with believing that he could succeed here.

 

[Adnan]

You're just going to ignore everything else I've said and dilute my "counter argument" to that are you. Ha, alright.

Yes, we sent him to a championship side with an ex player because we had assurances he will play. If we had assurances Tuanzebe would play for a PL club, he would've gone there instead. We didn't though, because those other managers didn't think he was yet good enough to give those assurances, or did not think he was an improvement on what they had. This player you think was good enough last season to be getting regular football for us, who would've been at least to the level of Lindelof by now, was not yet deemed good enough to play for those clubs below us in the league. But nah, it's just mean ol' Jose that won't play him.

Probably not. He also wouldn't have played the likes of Varela, McNair, Blackett, CBJ etc either. This notion that because Rashford was thrown in and was successful, every Tom Dick and Harry should get the same treatment is just silly. 5 decent games isn't going to change that. You want to lean on historical evidence to explain why a PL move is a bad idea, but want to ignore the plethora of recent evidence showing youth footballers given early exposure to our first team that have already disappeared from relevance.

Giving him some actual, sustained first team football will give him the opportunity to develop properly, and with a bit of luck we will have a top class CB on our hands soon.

I've been consistent in saying that Mourinho wasted two years of his career. Your counter argument is flawed, why? because it's like saying, why did Barca move for Quaresma when they could've had CR7?. The Spanish big two are the holy grail for most Portuguese players and CR7 would've gone there earlier had they come in for him. Did Barca sign the best talent of SCP or was it us? Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Instead of asking me things that I can't possibly answer. Let's judge the player on the games he has played for us and make a comparison with our current CB's at the same point in their careers. You also talk about McNair, Varela, Blackett etc, it's true they wouldn't have made it, but under Mourinho they wouldn't have even got a sniff. Mourinho's utilisation of a clubs youth team is truly pathetic and has been that way since he became a manager. So it didn't surprise me that he sent Axel on loan, very normal of Mourinho in fact if you look at his history with utilising youth team players from with in the set up. Nevermind Dick and Harry, Tom on his own would've been sent out on loan under Mourinho.

I believe if Axel is given a chance next season he will eventually be in the first 11. You can quote me on that.

 

[haram]

I have him on ignore but I’m guessing Adnan is still being deluded about Tuanzebe.

 

[Adnan]

I have him on ignore but I’m guessing Adnan is still being deluded about Tuanzebe.

You've changed your tune.. Hopefully you Mourinho Acolytes will see sense soon.

 

[Adnan]

All i'm saying is for Tuanzebe to be given a chance which i'm sure he will get next season. I'd understand if we still had Rio and Vidic still at the club, then another loan would've made sense. But with our current options he can definitely fight for a spot in the team.

 

[Nick7]

You've changed your tune.. Hopefully you Mourinho Acolytes will see sense soon.

Embarrassing.

 

[Adnan]

Embarrassing.

What's embarassing?

 

[Nick7]

What's embarassing?

Your post.

 

[Adnan]

Your post.

I'm sorry you feel that way..

 

[ivaldo]

I've been consistent in saying that Mourinho wasted two years of his career. Your counter argument is flawed, why? because it's like saying, why did Barca move for Quaresma when they could've had CR7?. The Spanish big two are the holy grail for most Portuguese players and CR7 would've gone there earlier had they come in for him. Did Barca sign the best talent of SCP or was it us? Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Instead of asking me things that I can't possibly answer. Let's judge the player on the games he has played for us and make a comparison with our current CB's at the same point in their careers. You also talk about McNair, Varela, Blackett etc, it's true they wouldn't have made it, but under Mourinho they wouldn't have even got a sniff. Mourinho's utilisation of a clubs youth team is truly pathetic and has been that way since he became a manager. So it didn't surprise me that he sent Axel on loan, very normal of Mourinho in fact if you look at his history with utilising youth team players from with in the set up. Nevermind Dick and Harry, Tom on his own would've been sent out on loan under Mourinho.

I believe if Axel is given a chance next season he will eventually be in the first 11. You can quote me on that.

You've been all over the place, claiming you haven't said things that you had, applying logic to suit your argument, and then dismissing that same logic when it doesn't fit your view.

It's funny. You make claims you can't possibly add substance to, like saying another manager would've played Tuanzebe, then refuse to discuss another hypothetical because the answer wouldn't fit the narrative. It's incredible how you can't see this enormous dollop of hypocrisy on your plate, sitting right next to everything else you've cooked up.

Amazing that you're being critical of Jose for hypothetically not giving these players game time when you admitted they weren't and will never be good enough. Old Trafford should not and will not be the proving grounds for these players, and in Tuanzebe's case, even more so. Chucking a 19/20/21 year old centre back on ahead of established players based on 5 throwaway games isn't something we should do, particularly when we have been performing as badly as we had. That shit ruins players. Rashford being that 1 in a 100 player doesn't all of a sudden make this a sensible move. If you want to use that as evidence, then you need to look at all the times it hadnt worked out for context and balance. Guess which way the scales tip.

Sending them out on loan to gain experience and sharpen their skills in competitive first team matches is the sensible route. This is why literally every club does it. They don't just chuck promising players into the team for extended periods of time on the off chance they can establish themselves.

Who says he wouldn't? I've literally said I think he'll become a top class player. Stop moving the goal posts. You know what would be a massive contribution to that future success? Actually gaining first team experience out on loan, and you can bet your bottom dollar he and the coaching staff will look fondly on this loan when he is an established player.

All i'm saying is for Tuanzebe to be given a chance which i'm sure he will get next season. I'd understand if we still had Rio and Vidic still at the club, then another loan would've made sense. But with our current options he can definitely fight for a spot in the team.

No you aren't. You are saying he should have been given a chance two seasons ago, and because Jose didn't play him he wasted 2 years of his career. Giving him an opportunity next season, after a full year of first team football under his belt, is completely different to giving him an opportunity with 5 games to his name. I'd be open to that happening, or if the club didn't quite think he was ready, for Tuanzebe to be loaned out to a PL club.

 

[Adnan]

You've been all over the place, claiming you haven't said things that you had, applying logic to suit your argument, and then dismissing that same logic when it doesn't fit your view.

It's funny. You make claims you can't possibly add substance to, like saying another manager would've played Tuanzebe, then refuse to discuss another hypothetical because the answer wouldn't fit the narrative. It's incredible how you can't see this enormous dollop of hypocrisy on your plate, sitting right next to everything else you've cooked up.

Amazing that you're being critical of Jose for hypothetically not giving these players game time when you admitted they weren't and will never be good enough. Old Trafford should not and will not be the proving grounds for these players, and in Tuanzebe's case, even more so. Chucking a 19/20/21 year old centre back on ahead of established players based on 5 throwaway games isn't something we should do, particularly when we have been performing as badly as we had. That shit ruins players. Rashford being that 1 in a 100 player doesn't all of a sudden make this a sensible move. If you want to use that as evidence, then you need to look at all the times it hadnt worked out for context and balance. Guess which way the scales tip.

Sending them out on loan to gain experience and sharpen their skills in competitive first team matches is the sensible route. This is why literally every club does it. They don't just chuck promising players into the team for extended periods of time on the off chance they can establish themselves.

Who says he wouldn't? I've literally said I think he'll become a top class player. Stop moving the goal posts. You know what would be a massive contribution to that future success? Actually gaining first team experience out on loan, and you can bet your bottom dollar he and the coaching staff will look fondly on this loan when he is an established player.

I do agree with some of what you're saying. At the end of the day we want what's best for the club, so let's see the next stage of his development.

 

[ivaldo]

I do agree with some of what you're saying. At the end of the day we want what's best for the club, so let's see the next stage of his development.

That we agree on. He has all the tools he needs to be a top player, let's hope he gets there!

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

All i'm saying is for Tuanzebe to be given a chance which i'm sure he will get next season. I'd understand if we still had Rio and Vidic still at the club, then another loan would've made sense. But with our current options he can definitely fight for a spot in the team.

I don’t think we should loan him next season. However, if we still have Rio and Vidic, keeping him in the squad makes more sense than loan move. Rio and Vidic could become the best two mentors for Tuanzebe. Young defenders tend to be inconsistent and sloppy sometimes, that’s why we need a leader next to him if he’s going to play regularly in a top level.

 

[edcunited1878]

Would you allow him to go on loan during his final contract year? You risk him signing with another club after the first half of the season in 19/20 if he isn't offered new terms this summer, during a summer we still don't know who will be full time manager.

He needs to develop with the first team and fight for playing time.

Lindelof, Smalling, Bailly, Axel, potential new CB or god forbid Jones. That's 5 senior CBs to get through the season when we all know injuries will happen.

 

[A-man]

All i'm saying is for Tuanzebe to be given a chance which i'm sure he will get next season. I'd understand if we still had Rio and Vidic still at the club, then another loan would've made sense. But with our current options he can definitely fight for a spot in the team.

Problem is if it turns out he wasn’t ready or he wasn’t really better than all the other United players. If his next season is mostly on the bench, his career is not going in a good direction. Then he will be a 23 year old with very few matches over the last 4 years.

 

[dutchred]

is there any update on his injury?

 

[settembrini]

is there any update on his injury?

He is recovering from his injury in Manchester. If it goes okay he will return to Villa in March and finish the season with them.

 

[dutchred]

He is recovering from his injury in Manchester. If it goes okay he will return to Villa in March and finish the season with them.

thanks

 

[Cheekiey]

Was Villa's first choice CB, Really hope he get's his chance next year!

 

[dutchred]

Did anyone see the villa game this week? He played the whole game

 

[Adnan]

Did anyone see the villa game this week? He played the whole game

 

[dutchred]

Thanks for the update. This guy can save us millions

 

[mewnew11]

Should go straight into the first team next season. I am excited about the squad ole will bring next season

 

[limerickcitykid]

 

[Adnan]

Nice to see the whole staff and their pets chanting his name. Has been a absolutely great loan move thus far and hopefully he's learned alot under John Terry.

 

[Bwuk]

If we sign a CB he should stay with Villa if they go up.

 

[Adnan]

His pace, strength and athleticism is needed in our defence. He's also very good on the ball and I'm sure he'll do well on the pre-season tour to force his way into Ole's reckoning.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

From Villa forum

"Really can't express enough how much I rate this guy"

"Always find it strange when I see these England teams of the future and for whatever reason Tuanzebe is never mentioned. I have no doubt in my mind he's going right to the top in his career."

"If we went up we have to bid for him. He will. Be excellent I think in the future."

"I'm so happy he's back. The bloke is just fantastic."

"What a class act he is!! His come back came in the precise right time. Like he was never out, or even that he came back even better, even more assured and calm. Did he do everything right today? Can't remember a fault or a bad pass and saved us several times."

Seems very popular with their fans. Only issues they seem to have with him is he's a bit injury prone. Is he good enough to be in our squad next season? Surely he can't be worse than what we have right now? Although injury prone CB is the absolute last thing we need.

 

[Yagami]

So, @FootballHQ ?

 

[JJ12]

Should be in our squad for next season imo. If we can get rid of 2/3. Replace with Tuanzebe and Alderweireld I'd be happy with that.

 

[andersj]

Should be in our squad for next season imo. If we can get rid of 2/3. Replace with Tuanzebe and Alderweireld I'd be happy with that.

It will be better for him to play week in, week out at Aston Villa for one more year. Bring him home next summer. He will be 22 by then. Close to 23. Perfect timing to step up.

 

[Varunie1208]

He seems to get injured a lot. Worried he's made of glass. with that said, I agree we bring him back and let him be Lindehof's back up. Don't this we can play them together as neither is good enough in the air.

 

[RyRy11]

I want him back for pre season . If he is going to be near to the standard we need at the club he should already an a pair with what we have currently, the bar is that low.

 

[A-man]

It will be better for him to play week in, week out at Aston Villa for one more year. Bring him home next summer. He will be 22 by then. Close to 23. Perfect timing to step up.

I kind of agree. He has played very few matches over the last seasons and really needs to play more. There is a risk he won't get that at United, especially with so many other CBs who need minutes, for example Bailly.

 

[MadDogg]

It will be better for him to play week in, week out at Aston Villa for one more year. Bring him home next summer. He will be 22 by then. Close to 23. Perfect timing to step up.

Yep, that's best case scenario so hopefully Villa get promoted. They seem to be in the best form of the four teams that will be fighting for the last spot so hopefully it happens. One season of playing every game (barring injury) in the premier league will set him up brilliantly for the future, almost certainly better than with us where he'd be a backup.

If Villa don't get promoted hopefully one of the other lower PL teams will want him and give him/us a guarantee he will at least start off as first choice.