[arthurka]

The only reason he went on loan was due to Mourinho IMO. Rashford would've been loaned out too under Mourinho. Thankfully for him LVG was in charge at the time who gave him a chance after a injury crisis..

Axel made his debut away to Arsenal and excelled against Alexis Sanchez, one of the best players in the league. In subsequent opportunities he also played very well and was more than good enough to fight for a spot in the team. If he was given 12 to 18 months like Mourinho afforded to Lindelof then I'm pretty confident Tuanzebe would've done better than the Swede. Tuanzebe has more in his locker than the Swede will ever have. Hiring Mourinho wasted the last two years of Tuanzebe's career IMO.

Agreed..

 

[kundalini]

With Axel playing CB Villa have conceded 19 goals in 12 games in the Championship.

When Axel not on the pitch, Villa have conceded 15 goals in 10 games.

With Axel playing RB Villa have conceded 11 goals in 6 games.

I have no idea how many of those goals, Axel was partly at fault for. However, I do know Villa's defensive record is currently the 3rd worst in the Championship, though there are a couple of teams who have played a game less, who might alter the position slightly.

At the time Lindelof was signed, it did seem a strange decision given that his skill-set seemed similar to that of Tuanzebe. Having said that, at this point in time there is a huge difference in terms of their respective experience. One has played in the World Cup as well as quite a few CL games for Benfica and United, and PL experience.

 

[Red00012]

With Axel playing CB Villa have conceded 19 goals in 12 games in the Championship.

When Axel not on the pitch, Villa have conceded 15 goals in 10 games.

With Axel playing RB Villa have conceded 11 goals in 6 games.

I have no idea how many of those goals, Axel was partly at fault for. However, I do know Villa's defensive record is currently the 3rd worst in the Championship, though there are a couple of teams who have played a game less, who might alter the position slightly.

At the time Lindelof was signed, it did seem a strange decision given that his skill-set seemed similar to that of Tuanzebe. Having said that, at this point in time there is a huge difference in terms of their respective experience. One has played in the World Cup as well as quite a few CL games for Benfica and United, and PL experience.

They’ve signed Tyrone Mings I can’t see Axel been 1st choice when he comes back from injury .

 

[AltiUn]

They’ve signed Tyrone Mings I can’t see Axel been 1st choice when he comes back from injury .

He seems to be considered their best CB by Villa fans, perhaps the pairing with be Tuanzebe and Mings.

 

[Mickson]

He's a Lindelof with much greater physical attributes.

Completely agree. He should be back soon for Villa, can't wait to see him progress there for the rest of the season.

 

[A-man]

Axel made his debut away to Arsenal and excelled against Alexis Sanchez, one of the best players in the league. In subsequent opportunities he also played very well and was more than good enough to fight for a spot in the team. If he was given 12 to 18 months like Mourinho afforded to Lindelof then I'm pretty confident Tuanzebe would've done better than the Swede. Tuanzebe has more in his locker than the Swede will ever have. Hiring Mourinho wasted the last two years of Tuanzebe's career IMO.

The fact that people still talk about that Arsenal match that took place three years ago kind of tells that there are not many references. What I have seen there is nothing that makes me doubt that he can turn into a good defender. But I still think we have seen far too little of him to make all those conclusions people in this thread make. I agree his last two years at United were wasted and I fear that coming back for next season also would be a waste.

With Axel playing CB Villa have conceded 19 goals in 12 games in the Championship.

When Axel not on the pitch, Villa have conceded 15 goals in 10 games.

With Axel playing RB Villa have conceded 11 goals in 6 games.

I have no idea how many of those goals, Axel was partly at fault for. However, I do know Villa's defensive record is currently the 3rd worst in the Championship, though there are a couple of teams who have played a game less, who might alter the position slightly.

At the time Lindelof was signed, it did seem a strange decision given that his skill-set seemed similar to that of Tuanzebe. Having said that, at this point in time there is a huge difference in terms of their respective experience. One has played in the World Cup as well as quite a few CL games for Benfica and United, and PL experience.

Yes there is a huge difference in experience and proved performance. When Tuanzebe played in the Championship, Lindelof played PL football and CL. The same goes for Smalling. If United bring Tuanzebe back they must commit to giving him the chance and be willing to pay the price. If they just add him to the other 4-5 CB he will end up playing 3 cup matches against mediocre teams and 3 PL matches next season. Then another loan would be better. Many fans also expect and hope for the signing of a world class centre back. Then there would be very little chance of Tuanzebe playing matches.

 

[limerickcitykid]

The fact that people still talk about that Arsenal match that took place three years ago kind of tells that there are not many references. What I have seen there is nothing that makes me doubt that he can turn into a good defender. But I still think we have seen far too little of him to make all those conclusions people in this thread make. I agree his last two years at United were wasted and I fear that coming back for next season also would be a waste.

There aren't any references because none of these people actually watch Villa in the Championship. It's why he never gets criticized on here despite having had inconsistent and poor games. While on the other hand TFM is in the PL which has far more coverage and his mistakes are seen by all and he's instantly thrown under the bus.

I agree Axel should get a PL loan next season. There is little point coming back to be 5th choice. Just keep what we have for 5th choice and Axel can return with some PL experience. It's hard to get a good PL loan though.

 

[Thiagoal]

Jones, Rojo and although it saddens me to say it, Bailly should be shipped this summer which will open up a space for Axel. Smalling, Lindelof, Axel plus a new top quality signing would give him chance to impress!

 

[khoazany]

If OGS stays as permanent manager I'm confident Axel will be part of the first team squad next season, perhaps as a 4th-5th choice CB. We will ship at least 2 CBs next summer imo, and we look bound to get one in so Axel will fill the other void.

 

[Kag]

They’ve signed Tyrone Mings I can’t see Axel been 1st choice when he comes back from injury .

Tuanzebe will be back in the first team quickly.

He’ll have an England cap within the next two years.

 

[A-man]

There aren't any references because none of these people actually watch Villa in the Championship. It's why he never gets criticized on here despite having had inconsistent and poor games. While on the other hand TFM is in the PL which has far more coverage and his mistakes are seen by all and he's instantly thrown under the bus.

I agree Axel should get a PL loan next season. There is little point coming back to be 5th choice. Just keep what we have for 5th choice and Axel can return with some PL experience. It's hard to get a good PL loan though.

Its difficult for young centrebacks to get in, as it is such a vulnerable position. If a forward misses a sitter it costs a goal, exactly the same as when a centreback makes a big mistake. Yet, people forget about the sitter five minutes later while people were talking about Lindelof’s poor header against Huddersfield one year later. On the good side I think most fans will have years of patience with Tuanzebe as they really want him to turn in to the world class player everyone has predicted. He will not go through the same as Bailly and Lindelof where every little semi mistake is analysed over and over again.

 

[ivaldo]

The only reason he went on loan was due to Mourinho IMO. Rashford would've been loaned out too under Mourinho. Thankfully for him LVG was in charge at the time who gave him a chance after a injury crisis..

Axel made his debut away to Arsenal and excelled against Alexis Sanchez, one of the best players in the league. In subsequent opportunities he also played very well and was more than good enough to fight for a spot in the team. If he was given 12 to 18 months like Mourinho afforded to Lindelof then I'm pretty confident Tuanzebe would've done better than the Swede. Tuanzebe has more in his locker than the Swede will ever have. Hiring Mourinho wasted the last two years of Tuanzebe's career IMO.

You're mental if you think another manager would be playing him centreback for us over the last few seasons.

 

[In Rainbows]

There aren't any references because none of these people actually watch Villa in the Championship. It's why he never gets criticized on here despite having had inconsistent and poor games. While on the other hand TFM is in the PL which has far more coverage and his mistakes are seen by all and he's instantly thrown under the bus.

I agree Axel should get a PL loan next season. There is little point coming back to be 5th choice. Just keep what we have for 5th choice and Axel can return with some PL experience. It's hard to get a good PL loan though.

I generally agree with your point, but Axel has been great for Villa this season where as you have Fulham fans not wanting TFM played at all. The Villa fans didn't have that high opinion of Tuanzebe until he finally started to play as a CB. Standards are different because they're playing in different levels, which should be taken into account, but at the same time it's important to also take into account the opinions of fans from their respective loaned clubs.

 

[limerickcitykid]

I generally agree with your point, but Axel has been great for Villa this season where as you have Fulham fans not wanting TFM played at all. The Villa fans didn't have that high opinion of Tuanzebe until he finally started to play as a CB. Standards are different because they're playing in different levels, which should be taken into account, but at the same time it's important to also take into account the opinions of fans from their respective loaned clubs.

That's the point though, people aren't taking into consideration that Villa fans criticised him for months and didn't want him. Even since moving to CB he has regularly earned criticism from the fans for lack of concentration and positioning and relying on his speed way too much to get him out of bad situations he put himself in. I am on a Villa forum and he's been blamed for goals plenty of times. Those same goals for TFM which would be all over Sky and he'd be called shit for. All of Axel's mistakes are ignored though because people never watch the Championship nor care to look into it. Nor do people ever take into account that the PL is far better than the Championship. Not to mention Axel is also older. I prefer Axel but people are happy to blindly put him into our first team while never watching him while simultaneously slag off TFM who is playing at a higher level and put in some fantastic performances alongside his poor ones.

 

[Adnan]

You're mental if you think another manager would be playing him centreback for us over the last few seasons.

You're mental if you think another manager not named Mourinho wouldn't have given him an opportunity after the player showed, he belonged in the first team by his performances..

 

[ivaldo]

You're mental if you think another manager not named Mourinho wouldn't have given him an opportunity after the player showed, he belonged in the first team by his performances..

You're delusional Adnan. It has nothing to do with Jose, it's all to do with Tuanzebe not being ready. We couldn't even secure him a premier league loan, but you think he should be playing for us?

 

[Adnan]

You're delusional Adnan. It has nothing to do with Jose, it's all to do with Tuanzebe not being ready. We couldn't even secure him a premier league loan, but you think he should be playing for us?

He made 5 appearances for us and never once looked out of place. I mean apart from playing well what more could he have done?

 

[A-man]

He made 5 appearances for us and never once looked out of place. I mean apart from playing well what more could he have done?

The 300 minutes he played PL football are just a smal percentage of what the coaches have seen every day at trainings etc. This is often forgotten by fans who think they know so much better than professional coaches.

 

[Adnan]

The 300 minutes he played PL football are just a smal percentage of what the coaches have seen every day at trainings etc. This is often forgotten by fans who think they know so much better than professional coaches.

The coaches at Youth level had very little to do with Mourinho's mindset.

 

[Red00012]

Tuanzebe will be back in the first team quickly.

He’ll have an England cap within the next two years.

Axel is that you ?

 

[Kag]

Axel is that you ?

It isn’t. I think he’s a class act, though. I also think I’ll be right.

 

[TwoSheds]

It isn’t. I think he’s a class act, though. I also think I’ll be right.

Even class acts don't always make it to the top if they're injury prone and play in a position which requires consistency. Jones was a class act once upon a time.

 

[ivaldo]

He made 5 appearances for us and never once looked out of place. I mean apart from playing well what more could he have done?

Nor did Cameron Bothwick Jackson.

 

[Adnan]

Nor did Cameron Bothwick Jackson.

He put in some good crosses once but you're clutching at straws comparing him to Axel...

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

Nor did Cameron Bothwick Jackson.

100% agree.

Never looked out of place for us - looked great every time I saw him for us especially attacking wise. Now his career is over due to an unnecessary loan used as an excuse to not utilise him in the first team.

That kind of loans break so many players ability.

Very similar to ole seemingly managing United. Was he this good for Cardiff? Not really but seems like the general job going a bit more by his rule book at a bigger club at United with better players & his own understanding of the place/club.

How I wished we had used some of these players immediately the season after LVG got sacked.

 

[MikeKing]

What is the point of this? CBJ was talented as well but his loans has been nothing short of horrible, combined with maybe not the right mentality and that is why he has regressed. He was better 4 years ago than he is today, that is sad when it comes to a young player. Axel is a huge talent, but you never know with these loan deals, and you certainly never know with youth players in general. I would not bet money on Axel making it here, but he has a lot going for him and I think that he might have been more ready a year ago than he is today sadly. Axel very well could have made the step up when he was in around the first team if Mourinho had wanted it to work that way. He has had to take the long way around instead but that is no reason to count him out at this stage.

 

[ivaldo]

He put in some good crosses once but you're clutching at straws comparing him to Axel...

Says the bloke who wants a CB who played 5 times last season for a champion side to get regular game time for Manchester United.

 

[Adnan]

Says the bloke who wants a CB who played 5 times last season for a champion side to get regular game time for Manchester United.

A CB that played very well too in those 5 games. Also excelling against the most dangerous attacker in the league at the time.

 

[Adnan]

What is the point of this? CBJ was talented as well but his loans has been nothing short of horrible, combined with maybe not the right mentality and that is why he has regressed. He was better 4 years ago than he is today, that is sad when it comes to a young player. Axel is a huge talent, but you never know with these loan deals, and you certainly never know with youth players in general. I would not bet money on Axel making it here, but he has a lot going for him and I think that he might have been more ready a year ago than he is today sadly. Axel very well could have made the step up when he was in around the first team if Mourinho had wanted it to work that way. He has had to take the long way around instead but that is no reason to count him out at this stage.

Good post

 

[edcunited1878]

According to transfermarket, his contract is up at the end of next season, June 2020.

I think he should be part of the first team come next year as 4th or 5th choice. Hope he signs a new deal because in 3 years, Rojo, Jones and Smalling with have/should have been moved on.

 

[arthurka]

According to transfermarket, his contract is up at the end of next season, June 2020.

I think he should be part of the first team come next year as 4th or 5th choice. Hope he signs a new deal because in 3 years, Rojo, Jones and Smalling with have/should have been moved on.

I think he will.. Both Rojo and Jones wont.

 

[ivaldo]

A CB that played very well too in those 5 games. Also excelling against the most dangerous attacker in the league at the time.

But an identical situation offered to you is "clutching at straws."

 

[Adnan]

But an identical situation offered to you is "clutching at straws."

Identical situation? Borthwick didn't excell when up against a world class player, or maybe i'm wrong and you'll correct me? Borthwick Jackson didn't even impress on loan at Leeds whilst the Villa fans rate Axel highly.

 

[AltiUn]

According to transfermarket, his contract is up at the end of next season, June 2020.

I think he should be part of the first team come next year as 4th or 5th choice. Hope he signs a new deal because in 3 years, Rojo, Jones and Smalling with have/should have been moved on.

4th or 5th choice? Feck that, what a massive waste of development time that would be. He needs consistent play time, not the odd appearance as back up, we should loan him again next season.

 

[Adnan]

4th or 5th choice? Feck that, what a massive waste of development time that would be. He needs consistent play time, not the odd appearance as back up, we should loan him again next season.

I think he will win a place in the first 11 before long. We don't have a Nesta or Baresi blocking his route to the first team.

 

[ivaldo]

Identical situation? Borthwick didn't excell when up against a world class player, or maybe i'm wrong and you'll correct me? Borthwick Jackson didn't even impress on loan at Leeds whilst the Villa fans rate Axel highly.

He played in a 1-0 win away to Liverpool. He's also 21, played twice as many games as Tuanzebe, and we had posters claiming that was enough for him to be given his chance. Now he's playing for Scunthorpe. If he was already good enough to play for us, why didn't Tuanzebe secure a move to a team in the PL? Surely three quarters of the league wouldn't jumped at the chance to sign a Manchester United quality defender for the season.

He's going to be a quality defender, I have no doubt, but let's actually give him more than 5 first team appearances before chucking him into the first team, no?

 

[AltiUn]

I think he will win a place in the first 11 before long. We don't have a Nesta or Baresi blocking his route to the first team.

True enough, but I just don’t see any reason to rush him. From what I’ve seen of him at Villa he’s still a few years off, another loan or two playing consistently will do him more good than sitting on the bench here, his time will come and he’ll get his chance eventually.

 

[A-man]

I think he will win a place in the first 11 before long. We don't have a Nesta or Baresi blocking his route to the first team.

If United get a world class Centre back for next season, then we have Lindelof who’s development everybody seems positive about, and we have Smalling. If that was the end of the list, I could easily see Tuanzebe coming back and get a decent amount of matches to develop. But I think that “decent amount of matches” will be spent on developing Bailly. It will definitely not be easy for Tuanzebe to get a place in the first 11.

You simply can’t have to many development projects going on at the same time.

 

[Adnan]

He played in a 1-0 win away to Liverpool. He's also 21, played twice as many games as Tuanzebe, and we had posters like yourself claiming that was enough for him to be given his chance. Now he's playing for Scunthorpe. If he was already good enough to play for us, why didn't he secure a move to a team in the PL?

He's going to be a quality defender, I have no doubt, but let's actually give him more than 5 first team appearances before chucking him into the first team, no?

Borthwick Jackson is actually 22 and isn't anywhere close to Axel physically. Borthwick Jackson had a good cross on him but never had the searing pace of Axel or the strength. He was technically good though and I hope he makes it at another club.

Axel would've had less than 5 apps for us had Mourinho not fecked up our league campaign. He then put all his eggs into the Europa League basket hence players like Tuanzebe were brought in to make up the numbers against Arsenal. Axel should've played even more games than he did after his good showing against a strong Arsenal team. The reason he didn't was Mourinho plain and simple. You just have to look at Mourinho's record of bringing through youth from said clubs youth system to see what Frank De Boer said regarding his poor record with young players from with in the set up is so true.

 

[ivaldo]

Borthwick Jackson is actually 22 and isn't anywhere close to Axel physically. Borthwick Jackson had a good cross on him but never had the searing pace of Axel or the strength. He was technically good though and I hope he makes it at another club.

Axel would've had less than 5 apps for us had Mourinho not fecked up our league campaign. He then put all his eggs into the Europa League basket hence players like Tuanzebe were brought in to make up the numbers against Arsenal. Axel should've played even more games than he did after his good showing against a strong Arsenal team. The reason he didn't was Mourinho plain and simple. You just have to look at Mourinho's record of bringing through youth from said clubs youth system to see what Frank De Boer said regarding his poor record with young players from with in the set up is so true.

He actually turned 22 today.

And you somehow think that supports your arguement? That he only got appearances in games we weren't taking seriously? In a competiton he weren't trying in, but is somehow, based on those 5 appearances, good enough to have been playing regularly for us a season ago?

There's a reason why players aren't just thrown into the starting XI at a club of our magnitude. He hadn't even nailed down a starting position at CB for Villa until around October. You still haven't told me why he wasn't picked up by a PL club for the season.

He's where he needs to be. Gaining first experience playing regularly. Let's look at him next season.