Aurelien Tchouameni / Signs for Madrid

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Sammy McIlroys fan club said:
The fella is much younger than any of those guys and a regular French international. Can it all go wrong, of course but he will still have sell on value in 18 months which none of the players I listed currently do. I think he is a reasonable bet if he can be brought in at the 50-60m mark. Certainly preferable to 100m for Declan Rice..
The fact that Liverpool are sniffing about him is a sign that he is a good player, unfortunately it is also a sign that we probably won't get him in the long run as they are currently way more competitive than us.
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He’s much younger than those guys now… he’s what, 3/4 years younger than Mata was when he signed for the silly money, and a year or two younger than Bailly was. Hell he’s older than Phil Jones when we signed him. It’s all well and good saying how we’re set for X amount of time if we throw the money at them but aside Matic and Cavani that was the case with every single other player you listed.

Throwing money at people to bring them in leads to a side that doesn’t care about winning. Other sides were sniffing around a load of players we signed, it was always a sign of how good they are… until it isn’t. That’s ignoring the fact that it’s easier to find your stride in a winning team like Liverpool currently are, signing for them buys time for them to build confidence that we can’t offer given we’re likely to be a mess at the start of next season.

This guy could be the real deal, he could also be an abject failure. Most likely he’ll be fine and still need replacing as we improve. I’ve seen far too many sure things to believe in them any more.
 
Tchouameni fits the profile of player that meshes well with a approach to the game where defensive stability is sacrificed for goals. Many of the other players that we signed in the past didn't fit into a modern front foot proactive/attacking approach. This has to be noted, and the profile of player in relation to the head coach's vision must be understood.

When Liverpool got going as a team consistently, it was after they went ahead and overpaid for Virgil Van Dijk who they had turned down when Rodgers wanted him from Celtic. And the keeper Allison who they signed by breaking the world transfer record for.

What the common denominator in both signings was that they were a stylistic fit for the way Klopp wanted to play the game which was in a proactive/attacking manner.

I think with Tchouameni it will come down to the project and how important he is made to feel as a first team starter. But make no mistake about it, he's the total package as far as profile is concerned for the role in question and a high risk approach to playing the game.

And someone mentioned above about Liverpool's data led approach, with Mane being mentioned as one of the players signed using that approach, but according to some reports I read several years ago, Liverpool's data science team turned down the signing of Mane under Rodgers due to him not being good enough according to the model utilised by the club's data analytics team. And when Klopp arrived he pushed for the signing of Mane and cited that he had followed the player since he first saw him play in the 2012 Olympics.
 
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I have a hard time believing Monaco would settle for just 50-60m, just not their style if they have a great young player on their side. If it's true though, I think it's a no-brainer.
 
Sayros said:
I have a hard time believing Monaco would settle for just 50-60m, just not their style if they have a great young player on their side. If it's true though, I think it's a no-brainer.
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I thought about this too. After selling Mbappe for so much - is the young quality midfielder going to be that cheap?
 
jackal&hyde said:
Plus the way Liverpool succeeded is far from the only way to success. Chelsea has had as much PL and CL success during Klopp's time and Madrid much, much, more. Each club does it according to it's potential.
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Absolutely. Clubs go about it by the means available to them, which is why, when our own consultant said a rebuild for a club of this stature should take the least amount of time, we have to conclude we'll do what needs to be done and contest for the best whilst complementing them with lesser players (already here as well as what we'll bring in). What we spend isn't the issue, but how we spend it is the bone of contention.
Nou_Camp99 said:
My sentiments exactly.

Also let's not forget they spent 75m on a CB and 60m on a keeper. Both of which were world records for their positions at the time.
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Yes, no matter how it's sliced, a substantial cash injection pushed them over the line. I don't see how we'll be any different and the notion we'll cartwheel into every target with the same financial outline is not taking on board his standing in an open market where the biggest, most successful clubs are linked to him. We're not just going to bow out of the upper tier of the market, but the ways and means of turning their heads have to be adjusted, for the time being.
 
They probably think let’s not play hard ball since he only has 2 years left in his contract.
 
Fortitude said:
Absolutely. Clubs go about it by the means available to them, which is why, when our own consultant said a rebuild for a club of this stature should take the least amount of time, we have to conclude we'll do what needs to be done and contest for the best whilst complementing them with lesser players (already here as well as what we'll bring in). What we spend isn't the issue, but how we spend it is the bone of contention.

Yes, no matter how it's sliced, a substantial cash injection pushed them over the line. I don't see how we'll be any different and the notion we'll cartwheel into every target with the same financial outline is not taking on board his standing in an open market where the biggest, most successful clubs are linked to him. We're not just going to bow out of the upper tier of the market, but the ways and means of turning their heads have to be adjusted, for the time being.
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They bought Couthino for 10m, developed him, and sold him for 140m which basically paid for Virgil and Allison. They are masters at transfers. Simply outstanding.
 
Fortitude said:
TAA has a level of technique that is practically unheard of in a full-back;
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OT but this really grinds my gears. As if Breitner, Krol, Leo Junior, Branco, Brehme, Roberto Carlos, Maicon, Dani Alves and Marcelo never existed...and those are just off the top of my head...
Cassidy said:
The only 2 clubs who have had to build themselves back after previously being an elite club. Milan and Liverpool
Guess how they went about it?
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Hiring smart people and analytics driven scouting. In Milan's case they went the club legends route at that
 
Fortitude said:
TAA has a level of technique that is practically unheard of in a full-back; even if he were not destined to play there under another manager, his base talents would be clear and evident. This kind of player comes along once in a blue moon, but would cost an astronomical amount to purchase in an open market. That is not a normal circumstance and has aided Liverpool tremendously.
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I’d argue that there has been a lot of right midfielders over the years who have his abilities going forward and we’re just as competent as he is defensively too.

He’s allowed to shine in this Klopp side and his weaknesses are glossed over.
 
CraftySoAndSo said:
Being motivated by Champions League isn't being a mercenary it's something called ambition. If United, Liverpool, Chelsea and Real came in for him and all offered the same amount of wages and playing time why would he choose us. In this instance the only way we could persuade him is either more money (which would make him a mercenary) or if he's a giant United fan. Otherwise why else why he turn down being a starter for teams regularly reaching stages of the Champions League we haven't reached for 10 years for a project where no one knows how long it'll take us to reach those levels again.
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I take your point, but he should absaloutely be more interested in the project at united, being a part of getting one of the biggest clubs in the world back to competing for the main trophies is surely more exciting
CraftySoAndSo said:
Being motivated by Champions League isn't being a mercenary it's something called ambition. If United, Liverpool, Chelsea and Real came in for him and all offered the same amount of wages and playing time why would he choose us. In this instance the only way we could persuade him is either more money (which would make him a mercenary) or if he's a giant United fan. Otherwise why else why he turn down being a starter for teams regularly reaching stages of the Champions League we haven't reached for 10 years for a project where no one knows how long it'll take us to reach those levels again.
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Yeah fair enough, I hear you. I suppose my overall point is if we have to beg him and he needs a lot of convincing them feck him, we are not a nothing club like City in 2008 or PSG. We are a proud club with a great history, screw him if he is not interested.
 
giorno said:
OT but this really grinds my gears. As if Breitner, Krol, Leo Junior, Branco, Brehme, Roberto Carlos, Maicon, Dani Alves and Marcelo never existed...and those are just off the top of my head...

Hiring smart people and analytics driven scouting. In Milan's case they went the club legends route at that
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You can add a lot more full-backs to that list, the point is, none of them are active now and TAA is the one for this generation, which was wholly the point being made. Practically unheard of in this sense, was obviously per generation, and not of all-time, contextually, you get a TAA quality full-back once or twice per 10-15 years, which is ridiculous and highlights what he is.
Pexbo said:
I’d argue that there has been a lot of right midfielders over the years who have his abilities going forward and we’re just as competent as he is defensively too.

He’s allowed to shine in this Klopp side and his weaknesses are glossed over.
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I wouldn't refute there have been right midfielders who can do such and such, point is, he plays at full-back and is the deep threat you can't meet until it's too late, which is allowing him to thrive and be a major factor in Liverpool's dominance. He mightn't even be a full-back if Klopp hadn't emerged, but he would still be one of very few technical marvels out on the right. You have people comparing what he provides to Beckham; there isn't higher praise to give than that.
 
jackal&hyde said:
Exactly. I never could understand why some are so adamant for us to fallow Dortmund or Leicester model. It worked for Liverpool now ok, with a few broken transfer records on the way that some fail to mention, but surely if you want to be the best at winning you have to more or less fallow what the best are doing. A few smart buys here and there sure, but a lot of the heavy weight of consistent success is usually carried by buying quality that tends to cost a premium.
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We need to identify what's stage we're in and follow suit. Think this is more of the issue that some have.
We can ofcourse buy the premium one, but first we need to lay foundation and quick fix ie the midfield which for me personally, wouldn't mind if it's the first draft or not.
Once we certain we hit the right direction and to a certain degree we hoped/expected. Then we can go to the more very specific/unique talent, which may cost premium but on other hand posing lower risk.
 
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Cassidy said:
Completely disagree since I quite obviously said until we can offer UCL football. You can then attract better players. Closer you get to your target you can attract better calibre of player. No where have I said don’t sign top players forever.
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And as I said in my post prior to you posting that, players of standing that are here are going to become jaded and want out watching us fritter away precious years of their career. What is a Sancho or Varane going to do for 2-3 years twiddling their thumbs waiting for us to be up to the required standard to even entertain these better quality players?

Ronaldo doesn't have much time left, so it doesn't really matter what he would think of that, but our other players of repute would rightly feel like they've been hoodwinked coming here if they are not seeing the exact calibre of player you're talking about missing out on for a while, being at the club.

A malaise works if everyone is crap and have no right to speak out, but it's not going to sit well with those who don't have to put up with it.
 
Elcabron said:
I take your point, but he should absaloutely be more interested in the project at united, being a part of getting one of the biggest clubs in the world back to competing for the main trophies is surely more exciting


Yeah fair enough, I hear you. I suppose my overall point is if we have to beg him and he needs a lot of convincing them feck him, we are not a nothing club like City in 2008 or PSG. We are a proud club with a great history, screw him if he is not interested.
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The challenge sounds romantic but a footballer's career is a short one and their number one priority is success and trophies (or money) and that's what they look back on when they finish. I agree being part of a United team that gets back to the top is a huge draw but many players have come here in the last 7/8 years for those reasons and i'm sure a few regret that decision. It does seem right now we are finally making the right noises but it's still a risk coming here compared to going to a Liverpool or Real Madrid right now. Yes the challenge of coming to United and getting back to the top is exciting but so is the guarantee of finals and trophies that these teams can absolutely offer him right now.

If these teams bid and he does choose to come here i'd be thrilled but he would be coming for one of two reasons. One is money and you're right we are Manchester United and if that's his attitude then i hope we steer clear. The other is he likes the challenge and wants to help, if that's the case then that's absolutely the right type of mentality we want at this club.
 
Elcabron said:
I take your point, but he should absaloutely be more interested in the project at united, being a part of getting one of the biggest clubs in the world back to competing for the main trophies is surely more exciting


Yeah fair enough, I hear you. I suppose my overall point is if we have to beg him and he needs a lot of convincing them feck him, we are not a nothing club like City in 2008 or PSG. We are a proud club with a great history, screw him if he is not interested.
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You picked the right username, I'll give you that. Sounds like a lot of hoo-rah-rah top red nonsense. Tchouameni would be silly to pick United over literally any other club he's linked to at this point in his career and your club's status and it really would be for the money more than anything. You will always have to overpay for top players when your club can't even manage a top 4 finish consistently, there's a whole generation of players growing up where United is this fallen giant that is constantly made fun of in the media. If Ten Hag can change the conversation relatively quickly, then for sure United goes back to being attractive, but it's nonsense to consider someone a mercenary for not choosing to go to a mess of a club at the moment, it's also unfair of a situation for a young player making his first big move.
 
The single most important factor is money - money for wages, money for agents' fees, and perhaps the willingness to pay a slightly inflated transfer fee as well.

Every time United has been out of the CL post Fergie they have managed to buy some big players who could have gone to CL clubs (Di Maria, Pogba, Mkhi, Maguire) and the common denominator has always been a willingness to spend more money than anybody else.

If you offer Tchouameni 250k per week and his agent 15m and Liverpool or Chelsea offers him 100k per week and his agent 3m, my guess is that he will choose Man United.

That is a strategy that has its own costs, however, not just in terms of the money expended but in terms of the club's wage structure and what other clubs and agents expect of you in the market.
 
Elcabron said:
Well said man. Sick of reading the comments in here along the lines of 'why would he sign for us' 'we dont have CL football' '(I didn't realise that by finishing outside of top four this season we will miss out on CL football for the next 15 seasons) 'we are shit' and on and on it goes.

Very good chance he will come here, if missing out on CL football for a season is the deciding factor for him then he is another mercenary we don't need.
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This isn't just a one season blip. We're miles away from being a mainstay in the CL that a player can have confidence in. Even the big financial advantage we had over most is long gone.
 
Leftback99 said:
This isn't just a one season blip. We're miles away from being a mainstay in the CL that a player can have confidence in. Even the big financial advantage we had over most is long gone.
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Wrong and wrong. We’ve been in the CL the past two seasons and are still one of the richest clubs in the world
 
Sayros said:
You picked the right username, I'll give you that. Sounds like a lot of hoo-rah-rah top red nonsense. Tchouameni would be silly to pick United over literally any other club he's linked to at this point in his career and your club's status and it really would be for the money more than anything. You will always have to overpay for top players when your club can't even manage a top 4 finish consistently, there's a whole generation of players growing up where United is this fallen giant that is constantly made fun of in the media. If Ten Hag can change the conversation relatively quickly, then for sure United goes back to being attractive, but it's nonsense to consider someone a mercenary for not choosing to go to a mess of a club at the moment, it's also unfair of a situation for a young player making his first big move.
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I hope the irony of a PSG fan lecturing a United fan about players only wanting to join united for money is not lost on you.
 
TheReligion said:
Wrong and wrong. We’ve been in the CL the past two seasons and are still one of the richest clubs in the world
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Next season will be 3 out of 7 that we haven't been in it. And we'll be far from the top earners compared to our rivals after being top a few years ago. But if you want to believe otherwise fair enough.
 
Leftback99 said:
Next season will be 3 out of 7 that we haven't been in it. And we'll be far from the top earners compared to our rivals after being top a few years ago. But if you want to believe otherwise fair enough.
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it’s not about believing anything. You’re factually wrong.
 
Leftback99 said:
We're not a mainstay in the champions league and we're nowhere near as strong financially compared to our rivals as we were. Facts.
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We’ve been in the CL more times than not as you yourself pointed out. We are also still the most wealthy club in the PL in terms of revenue etc.

Whatever point you were making is factually incorrect. There’s no argument.
 
Leftback99 said:
Wrong (and next season will be even worse)
https://www.goal.com/en/news/man-ci...-club-first-time-deloitte/bltd84982a7bff45c26
And if 4 from 7 seasons is a 'mainstay' to you it's not worth arguing.
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:lol: If you believe City’s figures..

Even if you do we are still ahead of everyone else so you’re wrong in what you say.

United can still pay the top fees and wages with relative ease. Missing out on CL is a big deal as we’ve been in it the past few seasons.

You’ll argue black is white if it means taking a swipe at the club. So negative.
 
Powderfinger said:
The single most important factor is money - money for wages, money for agents' fees, and perhaps the willingness to pay a slightly inflated transfer fee as well.

Every time United has been out of the CL post Fergie they have managed to buy some big players who could have gone to CL clubs (Di Maria, Pogba, Mkhi, Maguire) and the common denominator has always been a willingness to spend more money than anybody else.

If you offer Tchouameni 250k per week and his agent 15m and Liverpool or Chelsea offers him 100k per week and his agent 3m, my guess is that he will choose Man United.

That is a strategy that has its own costs, however, not just in terms of the money expended but in terms of the club's wage structure and what other clubs and agents expect of you in the market.
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You’re right. But I doubt ETH is going to approve such huge deals moving forward. We should’ve learned the lesson from Sanchez DDG Pogba Maguire transfers so he might evaluate the current set of players and make a decision based on the needs.
Also, I assume Chelsea are the ones who offer same kind of wages and agent fees and are the direct competition for us in transfers. So he will move to chelsea mostly if they did bid.
 
TheReligion said:
:lol: If you believe City’s figures..

Even if you do we are still ahead of everyone else so you’re wrong in what you say.

United can still pay the top fees and wages with relative ease. Missing out on CL is a big deal as we’ve been in it the past few seasons.

You’ll argue black is white if it means taking a swipe at the club. So negative.
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Whether I believe it from a fair play point of view is irrelevant, it's a fact that we've gone from number 1 in these lists (2015 I think) to number 5 and sinking fast. Liverpool will likely overtake us soon as well. They've probably earnt £50m more than us from CL alone this season.

I'll argue by telling it like it is. Pointless looking at everything with red tinted glasses on. We've blown the advantages we had a few years ago and fallen behind, why pretend otherwise?

If this lad comes to the PL I'm sure it will be Liverpool over us but hopefully I'm wrong if he's as good as people say.
 
Cathy Ferguson said:
They bought Couthino for 10m, developed him, and sold him for 140m which basically paid for Virgil and Allison. They are masters at transfers. Simply outstanding.
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Masters of selling to a club now without money. The sold a few to clubs performing better than them, now? The footballing world has changed.
 
A club with our revenues should be a mainstay in the UCL. But when the club at the top is devoid of a footballing vision, then the CV/resume dictates the decision making process when hiring a manager. And those managers had impressive CVs (with a couple of exceptions) but they were all out of date when it comes to the modern coaching principles when it comes to implementing a proactive/attacking game plan.

It's the first time since Fergie retired where I believe we've hired a head coach on the basis of implementing a footballing vision that meshes well with the modern day coaching principles. And when you have a head coach like ten Hag, he can sell a exciting project and can also provide a surety over game-time due to our greater need in the position in question
 
Leftback99 said:
Whether I believe it from a fair play point of view is irrelevant, it's a fact that we've gone from number 1 in these lists (2015 I think) to number 5 and sinking fast. Liverpool will likely overtake us soon as well. They've probably earnt £50m more than us from CL alone this season.

I'll argue by telling it like it is. Pointless looking at everything with red tinted glasses on. We've blown the advantages we had a few years ago and fallen behind, why pretend otherwise?
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You’re just miserably negative all the time. I notice it throughout the forum and think why bother bringing that energy. It’s been a shit season, granted, but plenty to look forward to and the signing of EtH along with departure of Woodward, Judge, Bout and Lawlor highlights the club finally embracing change.

If you can’t try and be positive about the future what’s the point?
 
Fortitude said:
And as I said in my post prior to you posting that, players of standing that are here are going to become jaded and want out watching us fritter away precious years of their career. What is a Sancho or Varane going to do for 2-3 years twiddling their thumbs waiting for us to be up to the required standard to even entertain these better quality players?

Ronaldo doesn't have much time left, so it doesn't really matter what he would think of that, but our other players of repute would rightly feel like they've been hoodwinked coming here if they are not seeing the exact calibre of player you're talking about missing out on for a while, being at the club.

A malaise works if everyone is crap and have no right to speak out, but it's not going to sit well with those who don't have to put up with it.
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A season to get in the UCL really?
 
Cassidy said:
A season to get in the UCL really?
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I'm not sure what you mean by this. It's not just about being in the CL, it's about being competitive and a side who look like they are going places. Our aspirations are not merely to qualify for the CL, but to be in the thick of things in both the league and the CL; players look around and assess team-mates and their quality and also what they're up against and make assessments all the time. Rio, Rooney, Keane have all gone on about that and made their thoughts known, with Rooney in particular making a furore when he saw the quality of our squad declining.

If we're not even looking at the highest tier of player, per your suggestion, the likelihood of us being a CL fixture any time soon reduces and leads to disillusionment amongst the better players who could easily land themselves a top tier club should they say feck this for a game of soldiers.
 
Powderfinger said:
The single most important factor is money - money for wages, money for agents' fees, and perhaps the willingness to pay a slightly inflated transfer fee as well.

Every time United has been out of the CL post Fergie they have managed to buy some big players who could have gone to CL clubs (Di Maria, Pogba, Mkhi, Maguire) and the common denominator has always been a willingness to spend more money than anybody else.

If you offer Tchouameni 250k per week and his agent 15m and Liverpool or Chelsea offers him 100k per week and his agent 3m, my guess is that he will choose Man United.

That is a strategy that has its own costs, however, not just in terms of the money expended but in terms of the club's wage structure and what other clubs and agents expect of you in the market.
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If it’s all about money United are still up there, more so than Liverpool for sure. If a player is looking at their development or winning things then currently United are a bit less attractive than City and Liverpool currently. ETH might change that but I think it might take him a couple of years.

When you’re in that kind of position there’s no harm in trying to find players who can make the step up rather than chasing someone everybody else wants. Klopp built his side by buying players from Southampton and Hull, and finding players like Matip for free. His first two summer windows were signings that were hardly huge names at the time but he was able to develop them and get us to a point where we could sign Van Dijk’s and Alisson’s
ETH might be better off doing that rather than spending ages chasing a well sought after player like Tchouameni. He can get his players in and settled quickly in a pre season and United will be better off for it.

Then again maybe he wants the paycheque.
 
Wow, Liverpool just invented trying to sign good young players. Reckon other clubs will cotton on to this?
 
Well, if he has no issue to be rotated then moving to Liverpool would be ideal now since they have lot of midfield. We just lost Pogba and Matic, moving to United would guaratee him a 100% starter week in week out.
 
Adnan said:
A club with our revenues should be a mainstay in the UCL. But when the club at the top is devoid of a footballing vision, then the CV/resume dictates the decision making process when hiring a manager. And those managers had impressive CVs (with a couple of exceptions) but they were all out of date when it comes to the modern coaching principles when it comes to implementing a proactive/attacking game plan.

It's the first time since Fergie retired where I believe we've hired a head coach on the basis of implementing a footballing vision that meshes well with the modern day coaching principles. And when you have a head coach like ten Hag, he can sell a exciting project and can also provide a surety over game-time due to our greater need in the position in question
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Well we will see how capable he is of selling the project when the season ends at Ajax
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
Well, if he has no issue to be rotated then moving to Liverpool would be ideal now since they have lot of midfield. We just lost Pogba and Matic, moving to United would guaratee him a 100% starter week in week out.
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Yeah but does he want to buy in
 
croadyman said:
Yeah but does he want to buy in
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That’s why previously I mentioned only Mitchell (if we hire him) can convince the player to come. Assume if there is good relationships between the two.

However, the manager can also convince the player to come if ETH can specifically explain what is the role he is going to give to the player and how he will be part of the integral player for the project. Assume if ETH really wants him.
 
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