PSG then
Aurelien Tchouameni / Signs for Madrid
- Thread starter Adam-Utd
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PSG then
Pogba to Monaco.
That scares me.
And, it would not work unless we score a few early and break opponent's will first.
Not particularly, they play as LM or RM respectively but help centrally too. Here's the heatmaps of Tchouameni, Rabiot and Pogba from yesterday.
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1516133/Live/International-FIFA-World-Cup-2021-2022-Ukraine-France
If that doesn't look a midfield trio then I don't know what does. Look how Rabiot actually had more touches in his own box than Pogba or Tchouameni or how much he helped in the middle of the park. The only area he didn't go to much is right midfield because Tchouameni was there. If Rabiot didn't play as CM, then Tchouameni didn't either. It was the same when Matuidi played.
This heat map shows how Rabiot covered a lot for Pogba.
Interesting stuff.
People have to stop harbouring dreams of Pogba as part of a two man midfield. As has been elaborated umbteen number of times, he has two midfielders who form the engine room with him got France. The same was the case with Juventus with Pirlo and Marchisio running the game and Pogba provided the flair. That's what we need him to do and what he's done really well for the first two games from the left. Mourinho seemed to buy him considering him to he some sort of Yaya Toure-esque complete midfielder and people haven't let go of that dream ever since.
That's why, for me, we need two CMs regardless of Pogba staying/leaving. He's excellent but let him focus on being creative. He should have no bearing on us fixing the heart of the midfield whose job is to protect the defence, win a midfield battle and control the game.
With Ole's preferred formation, the importance of Bruno and lack of a RWB we aren't moving to a France or Juventus system anytime soon.
That's why, for me, we need two CMs regardless of Pogba staying/leaving. He's excellent but let him focus on being creative. He should have no bearing on us fixing the heart of the midfield whose job is to protect the defence, win a midfield battle and control the game.
With Ole's preferred formation, the importance of Bruno and lack of a RWB we aren't moving to a France or Juventus system anytime soon.
I don't completely disagree with you but it's not quite as simple as that. Pogba isn't suited for a two-man midfield in some games. At home to Newcastle this weekend? Absolutely, he can play in a two with Fred. Away against Liverpool or Chelsea? Not a chance.
Back on topic, damn Pogba why are you hyping up Tchouameni? You just added 10mil to his potential price tag
Sure he could work in some games but personally against most opponents id prefer a combination of two different type of midfielders ( box to box and DLP or DM and playmaking 8) instead of Pogba. Do that lesser teams these days often do keep the ball well too, can press you up the pitch or just condense space so there is barely.I don't completely disagree with you but it's not quite as simple as that. Pogba isn't suited for a two-man midfield in some games. At home to Newcastle this weekend? Absolutely, he can play in a two with Fred. Away against Liverpool or Chelsea? Not a chance.
Back on topic, damn Pogba why are you hyping up Tchouameni? You just added 10mil to his potential price tag
Newcastle are rubbish though. Pogba should be fine against a team managed by Steve Bruce.
A lot of it may also have to do with coaching. We've not seen a brilliantly coached team at OT since SAF left so it's no wonder fans discuss tactics so much. Maybe a top manager could make all these things work.
On this player, hopefully Pogba is having a word with Ole and relaying his feedback.
I wouldn't mind that. Mbappé and Pogba join Monaco on a free and challenge PSG.
I think we'll use part of our summer transfer budget in January on a DM, like we did with Bruno. Ideally we'd pick up Tchouameni or Bissouma, think we'll need that extra player in midfield for the squeaky bum time January onwards if we're to challenge.
Yeah, Bruno needs to drop in more during the build up phase, he's become practically a second striker recently and that won't be necessary with Ronaldo or Cavani up top.
I think when we bought Bruno in the January it was with the idea Pogba would be sold that summer, but then covid happened, so we haven't built a side for 4-3-3, we are more set up for 4-2-3-1. We could get away with it if Pogba could play on the left all of the time, it's just a slight alteration to the France system, but we know Rashford will always be accomodated so it's not feasible.
He'd make a smart January signing.
I have categorized him as a allround cm player. Tchouameni is not Modric, Scholes or Yaya Toure nr.8. Neither a Rice, Keane or McTom.
For me. Looks similiar to Chelsea ex and Lyn from Norway. The nigerian John Obi Mikel. John Obi Mikel was a really good allround cm for Chelsea back then too. Not a clear Makele type of player. But good and creative with the ball too.
If i was United manager. I would spend Declan Rice money on Tchouameni instead. I am condfidence and have strong belief. McTom can do an equal good job as Declan Rice. And Fred as an alternative DM.
United need. If Pogba leave or not reach the top level or nr.8. On a consistent leve over a full season. And as United manager. If Pobga can deliver his max level on a consistent basis. Then i would try Bruno as the complete nr.8.
One of Pobga or Bruno have to reach and deliver theirs max level on consistent level. If United will have a chance to win the league this season.
If not, next summer. External solutions can be Tchouameni or Tielemans. Or both of Tchouameni and Tielemans.
Ruthless:
Matic out - In with Tchouameni
Pobga leave for PSG maybe - In with Tielemans or Nicola Barella
Future transfer strategy. Special if Pobga leaving and replace Matic.
Cm options with : McTom, Fred, Tchouameni, Tielemans, Bruno would be really good and strong. 4 cm with Bruno can play as nr.8
Dont come here and tell me that Bruno cant deliver a top consistent level as nr.8 over a hole season. Because the nr.8 is still one of the most creative players in the team. And that is Bruno. And Bruno can pass players from central midfield area too. Plus assist passes from central midfield area.
So conclusion. United and Ole definitely have internal solutions. To rise the chance to win the premier league. If UNited and Ole get the best out of the nr.8 position this season. I think and believe this season United league title depend and lie most on United nr.8.
Bruno as nr.10 and Pobga just back from LW/LM. So can see. Ole have to trust Pobga as nr.8 in games United shall dominate the midfield and matches. United have too good enough LW and wide players now. To use Pogba as LW.
Pobga is a natural born cenral midfield player. Not a LW. Wingers and wide players are best dribbler in the teams. Yeah, Pobga can dribble. But not the best dribbler at United and in the game. Put POgba back where he belong. Push, motivate, and boost his confidence and max him.
For me. Looks similiar to Chelsea ex and Lyn from Norway. The nigerian John Obi Mikel. John Obi Mikel was a really good allround cm for Chelsea back then too. Not a clear Makele type of player. But good and creative with the ball too.
If i was United manager. I would spend Declan Rice money on Tchouameni instead. I am condfidence and have strong belief. McTom can do an equal good job as Declan Rice. And Fred as an alternative DM.
United need. If Pogba leave or not reach the top level or nr.8. On a consistent leve over a full season. And as United manager. If Pobga can deliver his max level on a consistent basis. Then i would try Bruno as the complete nr.8.
One of Pobga or Bruno have to reach and deliver theirs max level on consistent level. If United will have a chance to win the league this season.
If not, next summer. External solutions can be Tchouameni or Tielemans. Or both of Tchouameni and Tielemans.
Ruthless:
Matic out - In with Tchouameni
Pobga leave for PSG maybe - In with Tielemans or Nicola Barella
Future transfer strategy. Special if Pobga leaving and replace Matic.
Cm options with : McTom, Fred, Tchouameni, Tielemans, Bruno would be really good and strong. 4 cm with Bruno can play as nr.8
Dont come here and tell me that Bruno cant deliver a top consistent level as nr.8 over a hole season. Because the nr.8 is still one of the most creative players in the team. And that is Bruno. And Bruno can pass players from central midfield area too. Plus assist passes from central midfield area.
So conclusion. United and Ole definitely have internal solutions. To rise the chance to win the premier league. If UNited and Ole get the best out of the nr.8 position this season. I think and believe this season United league title depend and lie most on United nr.8.
Bruno as nr.10 and Pobga just back from LW/LM. So can see. Ole have to trust Pobga as nr.8 in games United shall dominate the midfield and matches. United have too good enough LW and wide players now. To use Pogba as LW.
Pobga is a natural born cenral midfield player. Not a LW. Wingers and wide players are best dribbler in the teams. Yeah, Pobga can dribble. But not the best dribbler at United and in the game. Put POgba back where he belong. Push, motivate, and boost his confidence and max him.
- Mikel was bang average, just another body in midfield who was competent but excelled at nothing. If Tchouameni is at that level then we should steer clear.
- Number 8 is not the most creative passer in the team. In a two man midfield, it should be someone who assured and reliable at running the game. Bruno is not that guy. He can be sloppy with his short passing and then will win you the game.
- Pogba is a natural born (not even sure what means) attacking midfielder. The guy turns like a oil rig and apparently he's a pure CM. He's at his best playing those delightful creative passes so he needs others to work hard in the middle around him.
Not sure about this guy. Great physicality but looks a little awkward on the ball to me. Simone times those deficiencies don’t get exposed in an “easier” league but becomes very obvious in a faster paced one
We have had the best transfer window ever but still have a desperate need for a DM and, maybe, a RB. Yet, the Glazers are secure in that they have brought Ronaldo back so the bauble distracts them from the urgent need to fix the foundation. Our milquetoast of a manager, who is so grateful for the job he just puts up with the Glazers and apologizes for them (just like his hero, SAF, did because he too was too scared to leave his legacy ruined) and doesn't put his foot down about getting a DM.
Forget about Declan Rice, Aurelien Tchouameni is the next great DM. He has just been capped by the best team in the world (France) partnering our CM, Pogba, in the pivot where he dazzled and Pogba complimented him. His current club team, Monaco, crashes out of the Champions League qualifying with 5 days left. In an identical situation 6 years ago (same club, same CL exit with a few days left) we threw 58m GBP at Anthony Martial. Yet, we did nothing and Tchouameni will now probably go to Chelsea ("no value in the market")
The Glazers are not concerned with winning. All they want is social media engagement, shirt sales and for the revenues to keep going up. Yet, every year, we settle for the same old hope which is inevitably dashed. This year, this regime is a doing a disservice by messing with the GOAT.
All because we couldn't find it within us to sign a young DM.
Forget about Declan Rice, Aurelien Tchouameni is the next great DM. He has just been capped by the best team in the world (France) partnering our CM, Pogba, in the pivot where he dazzled and Pogba complimented him. His current club team, Monaco, crashes out of the Champions League qualifying with 5 days left. In an identical situation 6 years ago (same club, same CL exit with a few days left) we threw 58m GBP at Anthony Martial. Yet, we did nothing and Tchouameni will now probably go to Chelsea ("no value in the market")
The Glazers are not concerned with winning. All they want is social media engagement, shirt sales and for the revenues to keep going up. Yet, every year, we settle for the same old hope which is inevitably dashed. This year, this regime is a doing a disservice by messing with the GOAT.
All because we couldn't find it within us to sign a young DM.
All I know is that we desperately need a DM in January. Anyone.
I'm not sure a DM is gonna help us a lot until we bring in someone to guide the players and make better use of our existing players.
It can't hurt to have better players in our midfield. It's not like Mourinho got any more out of Pogba, Fred or McTominay for example. You'd imagine Guardiola might be able to improve them in possession a bit but ultimately they're just not that good at playing CM.
I don't believe Guardiola would ever play a combination of McFred in tandem and neither would AWB last long in his team imo. And some of our players can play poor games consistently and keep their place in the first 11.
Our midfield issue is 2 fold. 1. McFred and 2. Pogba. McFred seem to complement each other but are just not good enough and there's a very limited number of midfielders who can complement Pogba in a midfield 2 at the base behind Bruno. I don't really like Pogba as an LM as he offers no width. I just think for all the world-class qualities Pogba possesses, he's just a square peg at Man Utd and hopefully, sooner or later we recognize that and build a midfield that can just control the tempo of the game. Tchouameni and a dynamic box-to-box like Tielemans wouldn't be a bad shout. Even though neither are as good as Pogba but together they would offer us more balance and consistency which is what we lack in the past 4 to 5 games. As for Ole, he's a great man-manager, motivator but tactically, he's left a lot to be desired. I'd really like Ten Haag type coach to come and improve us tactically.
At this point we need to get 2/3 midfielders in this summer IMO.
Tchouameni, Caqueret, Bissouma would be my choices. Maybe Rice if the value is fair but I think will be too extreme.
Tchouameni, Caqueret, Bissouma would be my choices. Maybe Rice if the value is fair but I think will be too extreme.
Watched him last night against Saint-Etienne, whilst impressive in possession and his pressing, I would worry that what happened to Fred against Gray would happen to him.
Physically yeah but you can bet Caqueret would have taken him down the 2nd time by any means. He can be fiesty like that.
People think that there's a magic DM out there that will walk into our midfield, wave his wand and fix all our issues. Our shortcomings in midfield are just as much a coaching issue as they are quality of player.
we can’t really think like that.
rarely do players get left to a 1v1 in that sort of situation and neither should fred have. AWB was with him and decided to run away and let gray escape. if he stuck with him goal side and pushed him out for a throw in/foul it would have never happened.
i’d much rather have players on the ball that look after possession and can play, rather than a destroyer first. As another poster mentioned though he’s got that aggression to him that won’t allow him to get bullied like scholes. I do wonder whether our players are a bit nice sometimes.
in a team that works as a unit though we should never be giving teams the sort of space to counter like they’ve had recently.
True, probably an overreaction from the weekend tbh.
Yeah, it's probably an overreaction as I said, it still could be a valid concern if we were to go for him. I agree with everything you say though about shape/cohesion and the profile of player.
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Our issues in midfield have been exacerbated by the manager. I don't believe any manager who looks to play a proactive brand of football would play two limited players in midfield.
I think its both of the squad we have and the formation of playstyle we wanted to implement.
If you look at what the attackers we have you see why Ole prioritize with McFred most of the time. Most of our attackers are not doing enough defensive duties, press, or track backs. We have now Ronaldo, Pogba, Bruno (he run alot but the press are not sync), Greenwood, Sancho, Rashford....couple with AWB always suspect positionally and Shaw was told to push up all the time then its scarry to think how big of a hole we have in the field.
If you look at what the attackers we have you see why Ole prioritize with McFred most of the time. Most of our attackers are not doing enough defensive duties, press, or track backs. We have now Ronaldo, Pogba, Bruno (he run alot but the press are not sync), Greenwood, Sancho, Rashford....couple with AWB always suspect positionally and Shaw was told to push up all the time then its scarry to think how big of a hole we have in the field.
For me it's not that complicated.
We only have one CDM and he is out of breath and very old.
With Matic we play Pogba because it gives us defensive balance. With everyone else we get cut open as we saw with :
1) Mctominay and Pogba vs Villareal recently
2) Fred and Pogba vs Villareal in Europa
He doesn't want to get opened up. It's why he doesn't play VDB in my head because Fred and Mctominay are defensively better. Matic by himself is better. Etc.
Actually the squad we have is still imballance, and i think its accerbated even more with Ronaldo being bought. I know we bought Ronaldo for the every reason that hes what he is and he played with us. But it seems doesnt do the team any good cause palyers seems to have to cater to him and the play is not fluent enough.
So even with CDM being bought, we still seems to have no one to connect between midfield and attacks.
Im not even sure we need a fancy signing or the next big thing. Seems like we get outplayed by every single midfield in the PL. Surely there is a good option or two at teams like Villa or Wolves etc. They all outplayed us. That plus freeing Donny. We already do have flashy in Bruno and Pogba.
I think a Tchouameni/McTominay double pivot would get us almost on par with Liverpool, Chelsea and City.
If you take away Scott's initial Mc, they're just slightly different variations on the same name.Two big name players
No team with Fred and/or McTominay is going to get us close to that trio.
Definitely a player there.
I like this guy. He drives. Looks a unit. Can pass. Yes please.
Looked very good when he came on, provides plenty of involvement and balances out his duties very well for such a young player
Would definitely be in for him If I was United
Would definitely be in for him If I was United
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