Athleticism regressed after joining Man Utd

[afatzp]

This phenomenon always bothers me and seems something deeply wrong: It seems that all newly recruited players have suffered regressed athleticism during their tenure in Man Utd. I can easily set couple examples here:

Alex Telles - Great off-ball LB who can run non-stop and overlapping to deliver consistent crossing at Porto. Pace might not be his biggest strength but never a weakness to be bullied with. Now become a 35 year-old Zabaleta .

Lukaku - became a over-weighted broken tank in his years at Man Utd , lost his pace and agility, barely move but only could sustain 70 mins running at best.

Martial - the most Henry-like player with blasting speed and close ball control before joining us. Regressed to another over-weighted broken tank just like Lukaku .

Maguire - Tower CB at Leicester, dominate the air with proper jump , actually quite fast and agile for his size in back old days. Regressed to another broken tank with slow-mode reflex .

Luke Shaw - Slim fit with blasting explosive speed and run non-stop , much like another Bale in his Southampton days . Now over-weighted just like 32 year-old Rooney , save his steps as much as possible

Pogba - strong legs and powerhouse midfielder during his Juventus tenure and can shield the ball steady , blast the ball in goal in 35m range , and carry the ball to lead counter-attack box-to-box . Now only can play 60 mins and then barely catch his breath. Core power also regressed massively and no longer able to carry ball in long range or surely win 1-on-1 .

The list can be on and on . The phenomenon also seems not pinned to a specific manager as it has outlasted almost all of them from Moyes, LVG to Mourinho, Ole. It also seems not relevant to the local weather as Man City is the most fit team in the league . Could it be rooted to some more profound reasons behind the scene , like sport science , recovery support , nutrition , or training facility ? Just like to hear some insights on this.

 

[Ibi Dreams]

Most of it can probably just be attributed to age/injuries

That said, I do think Lukaku should not have been allowed to get as big as he did with us. Memphis is another that bulked up to the detriment of his game

 

[duffer]

All that Gregg's and Boddingtons they serve at Carrington for lunch.

 

[SparkedIntoLife]

Take it with a pinch of salt maybe but Stephen Howson said he heard from someone close to the club that there’s a lack of basic nutritional, strength and conditioning and player liaison support at the club. To the extent that players hire their own people. We’re apparently like 20 years behind most PL clubs according to the source. He hinted that Shaw’s basically having takeaways all the time. I might have misrepresented what he said there but it was pretty much this. Shocking if true. The infrastructure of this club is fecked.

 

[harms]

Maguire - Tower CB at Leicester, dominate the air with proper jump , actually quite fast and agile for his size in back old days. Regressed to another broken tank with slow-mode reflex .

Luke Shaw - Slim fit with blasting explosive speed and run non-stop , much like another Bale in his Southampton days . Now over-weighted just like 32 year-old Rooney , save his steps as much as possible

Maguire was always painfully slow and people had stated the obvious that a center back with his characteristics is unsuited to proactive style that Ole was supposedly trying to implement at the time & Shaw always had issues with his work-rate/intensity, even though his top speed was brilliant. Bale is such a weird comparison — look at their physical form at any point of their career, Bale is obsessed with his physique while Shaw always had a certain surplus of fat %.

The trend that you’ve spotted is certainly there, but you don’t need to invent evidence that’s already there.

 

[Smithy89]

Take it with a pinch of salt maybe but Stephen Howson said he heard from someone close to the club that there’s a lack of basic nutritional, strength and conditioning and player liaison support at the club. To the extent that players hire their own people. We’re apparently like 20 years behind most PL clubs according to the source. He hinted that Shaw’s basically having takeaways all the time. I might have misrepresented what he said there but it was pretty much this. Shocking if true. The infrastructure of this club is fecked.

I believe this to be true, especially with the stories about Shaw and his takeout escapades. You also just have to look at the state of carrington and old trafford, we're well behind the times.

 

[Lay]

Said it in another thread. We are 5-10 years behind other clubs in so many ways.

 

[DWelbz19]

As above by @harms , there is probably an issue, but I don’t think the evidence you give is fair. Shaw has always been a larger guy, and Maguire was never fast.

For the others, I’d say a big part of it is mostly down to injuries and I’d say a lack of confidence (Martial particularly, you could apply this to Rashford too who has always been shredded but looks like he’s lost a bag of athleticism these days).
I’d say the same for Pogba. He’s reached the age where all these ankle injuries have done enough long-standing impact where he’s nowhere near the same with his acceleration and general match fitness. Either he’s totally playing within himself to not get injured before the summer (possible) or he’s really lost a big part of his athleticism.

Although these two:
Telles - I don’t think we did anything to him, I think he’s just a lot slower than you think he was and just looked better in a weaker league

Lukaku - he definitely got overweight but he looks equally tumescent at Chelsea. He’s probably just getting double meals back here in the UK.

 

[harms]

There were those stories that players had stopped eating dessert after seeing how Cristiano eats & trains (both Grant & Bailly had said that) which is… ridiculous. You are professional footballers, you didn’t know that it’s bad for your physique before that? And Lukaku saying how after coming to Inter he had to switch his diet with Conte forcing him to eat only chicken, salad, fish & shirataki pasta… ground breaking achievements of sport science.

We seem to operate like a random British club from the 80’s off the pitch — I wonder if we give players a pint with a fresh egg in it at half time.

 

[Smithy89]

There were those stories that players had stopped eating dessert after seeing how Cristiano eats & trains (both Grant & Bailly had said that) which is… ridiculous. You are professional footballers, you didn’t know that it’s bad for your physique before that? And Lukaku saying how after coming to Inter he had to switch his diet with Conte forcing him to eat only chicken, salad, fish & shirataki pasta… ground breaking achievements of sport science.

We seem to operate like a random British club from the 80’s off the pitch — I wonder if we give players a pint with a fresh egg in it at half time.

The United team of the 80's doing that would smash this one all over, so it could help. Likes of Maguire play drunk anyway.

 

[MUFC OK]

We’re apparently like 20 years behind most PL clubs according to the source.

it’s entirely believeable, we’ve been 20 years behind in every aspect of the way the club is run so it wouldn’t surprise me. Our players often look like they’re running through mud.

Hoping that if we get Ten Hag he will revamp our fitness coaching in line with the modern game. He might get a shock at the intensity of the premier league though, Leicester for example looked markedly fitter than us yesterday.

 

[AbusementPark]

We just need a full reset and start over and it will take 2-3 years to achieve it. Pogba is one of the problems that needs shifting, on too much money for the effort he puts in, wouldnt even want the new manager to come in and try and keep this virus he needs vaccinated against.

 

[Member 101269]

There were those stories that players had stopped eating dessert after seeing how Cristiano eats & trains (both Grant & Bailly had said that) which is… ridiculous. You are professional footballers, you didn’t know that it’s bad for your physique before that? And Lukaku saying how after coming to Inter he had to switch his diet with Conte forcing him to eat only chicken, salad, fish & shirataki pasta… ground breaking achievements of sport science.

We seem to operate like a random British club from the 80’s off the pitch — I wonder if we give players a pint with a fresh egg in it at half time.

No, but perhaps a Cadbury's cream egg

 

[stevoc]

I believe this to be true, especially with the stories about Shaw and his takeout escapades. You also just have to look at the state of carrington and old trafford, we're well behind the times.

What's wrong with Carrington?

 

[Dan_F]

More likely that you weren’t watching these platings for 90 minutes twice a week when at other clubs. I’m sure Telles looked great going forward playing for the biggest team in a weak league.

Lukaku and Martial are both playing no different with their new clubs this season compared to with us.

Shaw broke his leg and has been with us for 8 years or something. Of course he’s going to look different to when he was 18.

 

[Eugenius]

It also goes the other way. Look at the before and after for DDG, McTominay, Greenwood, Rashford, Lingard etc in recent years.

 

[Donaldo]

Patent nonsense in this thread. So Manchester United haven't figured out player nutrition in the year 2022?

 

[RedC]

Patent nonsense in this thread. So Manchester United haven't figured out player nutrition in the year 2022?

Utterly ridiculous, as if all of the managers we've had in the last 10 years have come in and seen some awful nutrition set up and just left it there.

 

[Lay]

There were those stories that players had stopped eating dessert after seeing how Cristiano eats & trains (both Grant & Bailly had said that) which is… ridiculous. You are professional footballers, you didn’t know that it’s bad for your physique before that? And Lukaku saying how after coming to Inter he had to switch his diet with Conte forcing him to eat only chicken, salad, fish & shirataki pasta… ground breaking achievements of sport science.

We seem to operate like a random British club from the 80’s off the pitch — I wonder if we give players a pint with a fresh egg in it at half time.

The Lukaku one interests me because it was the same thing with Tevez. He said the first time he got told he was overweight was in Italy. They put him on a strict diet which resulted in some of his best form.

 

[Abraxas]

I think there is possibly some coherence to this point but I think most of the examples are not characterised with balance. Just a fairly binary take.

There is no way on this earth Maguire, or Telles have been anything other than fairly unremarkable athletes in terms of pace and explosiveness. It has been Telles biggest weakness since the day he arrived and many people questioned Maguire's ability to defend from the half way line.

Shaw and Martial you're comparing as skinny 18 year olds to emphasise the point, but that's an irrelevance because nobody looks like they did at that age. I think with Martial they wanted to improve his hold up play strength as we had visions of him becoming a striker at some point. That worked but maybe he lost some pace. Or maybe he can't be arsed to run, something Sevilla are also experiencing. If he's not doing anything with intensity then he's not going to look athletic. With Shaw I think it's fair to question his shape, but not on the basis of his 18 year old frame.

Pogba you leave out the fact he's approaching 30, and has rarely put a full season together for various injuries. Maybe he's lost the hunger, or maybe these are big contributory factors.

Lukaku is probably fair - he was out of shape here.

 

[Withnail]

I think there is possibly some coherence to this point but I think most of the examples are not characterised with balance. Just a fairly binary take.

There is no way on this earth Maguire, or Telles have been anything other than fairly unremarkable athletes in terms of pace and explosiveness. It has been Telles biggest weakness since the day he arrived and many people questioned Maguire's ability to defend from the half way line.

Shaw and Martial you're comparing as skinny 18 year olds to emphasise the point, but that's an irrelevance because nobody looks like they did at that age. I think with Martial they wanted to improve his hold up play strength as we had visions of him becoming a striker at some point. That worked but maybe he lost some pace. Or maybe he can't be arsed to run, something Sevilla are also experiencing. If he's not doing anything with intensity then he's not going to look athletic. With Shaw I think it's fair to question his shape, but not on the basis of his 18 year old frame.

Pogba you leave out the fact he's approaching 30, and has rarely put a full season together for various injuries. Maybe he's lost the hunger, or maybe these are big contributory factors.

Lukaku is probably fair - he was out of shape here.

Lukaku isn't fair either as he was fine til he took it upon himself to bulk up for World Cup.

 

[Smithy89]

What's wrong with Carrington?

It was state of the art..... 20 years ago. Other clubs are investing and building new training facilities that are state of the art in 2022, not 2002.

 

[Denis79]

There were those stories that players had stopped eating dessert after seeing how Cristiano eats & trains (both Grant & Bailly had said that) which is… ridiculous. You are professional footballers, you didn’t know that it’s bad for your physique before that? And Lukaku saying how after coming to Inter he had to switch his diet with Conte forcing him to eat only chicken, salad, fish & shirataki pasta… ground breaking achievements of sport science.

We seem to operate like a random British club from the 80’s off the pitch — I wonder if we give players a pint with a fresh egg in it at half time.

It's insane if even a fraction of this is true. I heard about the Lukaku change in diet after he joined Inter and thought to myself it was crazy that this wasn't a thing at United, that we didn't have people who set up individual diets for our players.

 

[stevoc]

It was state of the art..... 20 years ago. Other clubs are investing and building new training facilities that are state of the art in 2022, not 2002.

What specifically is wrong with Carrington though? In what areas do you feel it is falling behind in comparison to other teams training grounds?

Or are you saying you just want the club to build a new training ground every 20 years?

 

[sparx99]

It was state of the art..... 20 years ago. Other clubs are investing and building new training facilities that are state of the art in 2022, not 2002.

We have upgraded it at various times since then. We bought our own MRI machines and LVG put in his trees etc. Plus we know the renovation there has already started with plans to incorporate the womens team in the same complex (I think that already happened didn’t it?).

 

[Silverman]

It's actually shocking how far behind we are. How on earth has it been let get to this stage.

 

[Lash]

There were those stories that players had stopped eating dessert after seeing how Cristiano eats & trains (both Grant & Bailly had said that) which is… ridiculous. You are professional footballers, you didn’t know that it’s bad for your physique before that? And Lukaku saying how after coming to Inter he had to switch his diet with Conte forcing him to eat only chicken, salad, fish & shirataki pasta… ground breaking achievements of sport science.

We seem to operate like a random British club from the 80’s off the pitch — I wonder if we give players a pint with a fresh egg in it at half time.

Unless it's a winter game, then a cup Bovril is what is served

 

[Rhyme Animal]

This phenomenon always bothers me and seems something deeply wrong: It seems that all newly recruited players have suffered regressed athleticism during their tenure in Man Utd. I can easily set couple examples here:

Alex Telles - Great off-ball LB who can run non-stop and overlapping to deliver consistent crossing at Porto. Pace might not be his biggest strength but never a weakness to be bullied with. Now become a 35 year-old Zabaleta .

Lukaku - became a over-weighted broken tank in his years at Man Utd , lost his pace and agility, barely move but only could sustain 70 mins running at best.

Martial - the most Henry-like player with blasting speed and close ball control before joining us. Regressed to another over-weighted broken tank just like Lukaku .

Maguire - Tower CB at Leicester, dominate the air with proper jump , actually quite fast and agile for his size in back old days. Regressed to another broken tank with slow-mode reflex .

Luke Shaw - Slim fit with blasting explosive speed and run non-stop , much like another Bale in his Southampton days . Now over-weighted just like 32 year-old Rooney , save his steps as much as possible

Pogba - strong legs and powerhouse midfielder during his Juventus tenure and can shield the ball steady , blast the ball in goal in 35m range , and carry the ball to lead counter-attack box-to-box . Now only can play 60 mins and then barely catch his breath. Core power also regressed massively and no longer able to carry ball in long range or surely win 1-on-1 .

The list can be on and on . The phenomenon also seems not pinned to a specific manager as it has outlasted almost all of them from Moyes, LVG to Mourinho, Ole. It also seems not relevant to the local weather as Man City is the most fit team in the league . Could it be rooted to some more profound reasons behind the scene , like sport science , recovery support , nutrition , or training facility ? Just like to hear some insights on this.

‘Athleticism’ in the cases you’re describing is basically interchangeable with ‘work rate’ since we’re talking about people who are already professional Athletes!

And the reason work rate is so low at Man Utd is because MOTIVATION is low - unmotivated people don’t work hard, and unmotivated athletes will obviously show less ‘athleticism’ (since that’s their job anyway).

The reason why motivation is low at Utd isn’t some mysterious, complicated conundrum, it’s simply because the club is badly run from the top down, and has been badly run from the top down for a very, very long time.

- Poor / laughable CEO appointments based on cronyism rather than merit and excellence.

- Poor / laughable managerial appointments due to having the laughable CEO appointment making decisions.

- Poor / chaotic player recruitment due to having poor managerial appointments and laughable CEO set-up.

- Poor / laughable contract structure due to having laughable CEO appointment unfit for the job.

- UNMOTIVATED athletes due to the above.

- Lack of success due to the above.

 

[laughtersassassin]

I don't think we have signed a player and actually improved them in since pretty much Fergie retired.

They all regress with us. Clearly the club don't have the right people.

 

[Idxomer]

Rashford, Martial, and Pogba have regressed physically because of too many injuries.

 

[James Peril]

The OP is speculative at best, give me a break. Today I am slower and less agile than I was three years ago, I have been going through something called ageing. It sucks to be honest, but it’s the same for everyone except Ronaldo and a few other when you approach 30.

I believe you didn’t watch many of these players regularly before they joined United, you didn’t pay attention to them like you do today when they are playing for United. Maguire was always slow and clumsy, you probably just didn’t see it or care about it.

Why don’t you find stats to back up your subjective opinion?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Rashford, Martial, and Pogba have regressed physically because of too many injuries.

Then we are back to if injuries are dealt with quick enough before they became a bigger injury. It is alright having fancy equipment but not if the people making treatment decisions are not up to scratch or are letting managers decide when treatment is given. This seems to be a long running saga at our club.

 

[CallyRed]

Who did we sign Athleticism from? Seems a decent prospect

 

[JPRouve]

There were those stories that players had stopped eating dessert after seeing how Cristiano eats & trains (both Grant & Bailly had said that) which is… ridiculous. You are professional footballers, you didn’t know that it’s bad for your physique before that? And Lukaku saying how after coming to Inter he had to switch his diet with Conte forcing him to eat only chicken, salad, fish & shirataki pasta… ground breaking achievements of sport science.

We seem to operate like a random British club from the 80’s off the pitch — I wonder if we give players a pint with a fresh egg in it at half time.

It's worth pointing that it is not bad for your physique. These type of tales essentially show that players still have no clue. And the Lukaku story is part of his BS, there is no way that he maintains his muscle mass the way he did while training properly.

 

[VeevaVee]

Patent nonsense in this thread. So Manchester United haven't figured out player nutrition in the year 2022?

Considering we were genuinely unfit prior to Jose and have been close to bottom of the league for running multiple seasons in a row while often looking gassed in the final 20 minutes then there’s clearly an issue with fitness and nutrition at the club. I suspect they’ve been given too much freedom and so it’s with the players, who we all know are not exactly driven and focussed on being the best they can, but it’s on the club for not sorting it out sooner.

 

[harms]

It's worth pointing that it is not bad for your physique. These type of tales essentially show that players still have no clue. And the Lukaku story is part of his BS, there is no way that he maintains his muscle mass the way he did while training properly.

Eating sweets? Fair enough, I'm not going to die on this hill. The main thing that these stories show is that we don't have a proper nutrition expert which seems absurd. And we don't seem to be able to notice & intervene when our players lose their form.

 

[JPRouve]

Considering we were genuinely unfit prior to Jose and have been close to bottom of the league for running multiple seasons in a row while often looking gassed in the final 20 minutes then there’s clearly an issue with fitness and nutrition at the club. I suspect they’ve been given too much freedom and so it’s with the players, who we all know are not exactly driven and focussed on being the best they can, but it’s on the club for not sorting it out sooner.

We were actually very fit prior to Jose, under Van Gaal United were in the top third when it came to running distances and sprints per game. Things went downhill under Jose when we stumbled to the bottom third.

 

[World Game]

 

[AshRK]

Well to be fair we have some weird expectations from our players. They are what they are, not some world class talent who will help us win CL or PL. We have players who are good enough to fight for 4th place and that's it. All this talk of how they have regressed is just nonsense.

Pogba for example is a big myth. He is a good to very good player on his day but will give you 2 world class performance for 90 minimum if you are lucky in a season. People say he does x y z for france, well for starter is surrounded by world class talent in France and even for them he is usually inconsistent with brilliant moments. But the thing is they win stuff so everything looks amazing. If we were winning PL then Pogba would be hailed here.

Martial was always inconsistent who lacked the hunger. Shaw similar. Players who we fans hype to orbit and think they are next Henry and Irwin respectively. As for Lukaku well he is still not good enough at Chelsea and was never what you need to win a PL or CL. Conte and serie A was perfect for him. And Maguire is another decent player but that's it. He is good enough if you want to compete for 4th position.

This is the truth which people don't want to accept. We don't have a great set of players. We have players who will do a job if you are looking to finish 4th to 6th.

 

[JPRouve]

Eating sweets? Fair enough, I'm not going to die on this hill. The main thing that these stories show is that we don't have a proper nutrition expert which seems absurd.

Yes, eating sweets. It can only be bad in excess or if you are sedentary but that applies to everything. From the outside it's nearly impossible to tell someone what they should change but the key points for an athlete would be how, when, how much do you eat but most importantly how intensely do you train because that last variable determines how much calories you actually spend and also how efficient your training is.