Astronomy & Space Exploration

Just a heads up for all Hubble fans. Tonight on BBC2 at 9pm (England at least) there is a Horizon documentary on the telescope.

'To celebrate the 30th anniversary of its launch, this film tells the remarkable story of how Hubble revealed the awe and wonder of our universe and how a team of daring astronauts risked their lives to keep it working.'

Should be a decent watch.
 
All this Hubble talk reminds me that the James Webb Space Telescope is still hopefully happening at some point. Though it was delayed even further due to Covid-19. It's 13 years late by now, which means that if it had been launched on schedule it would have been out of commission for three years.
 
Watched the Hubble documentary and at times was wiping tears away. I hope we will go back to service it at some point.
And I've just googled about the JWST before I saw these last few posts and it says 30.3.2021 so about a year away.
I tell you when that time comes I'll be so nervous because if it goes wrong there is no recovery service that's possible, it's on it's own we have to get this right the first time.
 
giggs-beckham said:
Watched the Hubble documentary and at times was wiping tears away. I hope we will go back to service it at some point.
And I've just googled about the JWST before I saw these last few posts and it says 30.3.2021 so about a year away.
I tell you when that time comes I'll be so nervous because if it goes wrong there is no recovery service that's possible, it's on it's own we have to get this right the first time.
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Thirty years old and still opening our eyes to the visible universe.

It has been a truly remarkable success despite its initial problem.
And of course our universe continues to both confound and amaze us.

We are all so fortunate to live in an era of spellbinding discoveries.
A few months ago, I watched an old Sky At Night programme and they were showing hand drawn images of what they thought were the Canals on Mars for example.

Just look at what we are now seeing in just a few generations.
 
Buster15 said:
Thirty years old and still opening our eyes to the visible universe.

It has been a truly remarkable success despite its initial problem.
And of course our universe continues to both confound and amaze us.

We are all so fortunate to live in an era of spellbinding discoveries.
A few months ago, I watched an old Sky At Night programme and they were showing hand drawn images of what they thought were the Canals on Mars for example.

Just look at what we are now seeing in just a few generations.
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I do feel privileged to be alive in these times and Hubble is for me one of mankind's best creations. 93 they fixed it with specs, same year we won the first premiership. Coincidence? Yes
God speed JWST
 


Videos were already made public by New York Times in 2017 but now seemingly confirmed by Department of Defense.
 
I saw it on one of the front pages of one of the crap newspapers in the shop and it said UFOs confirmed. I thought yes its definitely a UFO.
 
diarm said:
https://www.sciencealert.com/this-s...has-an-bizarrely-regular-feeding-schedule/amp

My mind is racing trying to imagine what could be causing these bursts at such regular intervals. Seems impossible for it to be completely natural.
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My understanding was that due to the gravitational pull of super massive black holes objects orbit them and material gradually falls in. Couldn't this be a star in orbit which is gradually getting consumed piece by piece due to the orbit its found itself in?
 
diarm said:
https://www.sciencealert.com/this-s...has-an-bizarrely-regular-feeding-schedule/amp

My mind is racing trying to imagine what could be causing these bursts at such regular intervals. Seems impossible for it to be completely natural.
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Why? Unless you're the world's leading astrophysicist, not being able to imagine what causes some new phenomenon is not cause to conclude that it must be artificial. Actually, not even then would it make any sense. When have we ever discovered something new in the Universe and concluded it can't be natural?

https://www.esa.int/Science_Explora...flares_may_shed_light_on_black_hole_accretion

“There are various mechanisms in the accretion disc that could give rise to this type of quasi-periodic signal, potentially linked to instabilities in the accretion flow close to the central black hole.

“Alternatively, the eruptions could be due to the interaction of the disc material with a second body – another black hole or perhaps the remnant of a star previously disrupted by the black hole.”

Although never before observed, Giovanni and colleagues think periodic flares like these might actually be quite common in the Universe.
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Here's a paper with a more specific theory:

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2002.00970.pdf

I suggest that the quasiperiodic ultrasoft X-ray eruptions recently observed from the galaxy GSN 069 may result from accretion from a low-mass white dwarf in a highly eccentric orbit about its central black hole. At 0.21M_sun, this star was probably the core of a captured red giant. Such events should occur in significant numbers as less extreme outcomes of whatever process leads to tidal disruption events. I show that gravitational radiation losses can drive the observed mass transfer rate, and that the precession of the white dwarf orbit may be detectable in X-rays as a superorbital quasiperiod P_super ~ 2 d. The very short lifetime of the current event, and the likelihood that similar ones involving more massive stars would be less observable, together suggest that stars may transfer mass to the low-mass SMBH in this and similar galaxies at a total rate potentially making a significant contribution to their masses. A similar or even much greater inflow rate would be unobservable in most galaxies. I discuss the implications for SMBH mass growth.
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diarm said:
https://www.sciencealert.com/this-s...has-an-bizarrely-regular-feeding-schedule/amp

My mind is racing trying to imagine what could be causing these bursts at such regular intervals. Seems impossible for it to be completely natural.
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Nobody said that black holes or anything in our universe had to be logical so that we humans could understand them.

They are what they are, just as quantum physics is mind-blowingly difficult to comprehend and particles don't behave as our laws of classic physics think they should.

That is what makes it so fascinating.
 
Buster15 said:
Nobody said that black holes or anything in our universe had to be logical so that we humans could understand them.

They are what they are, just as quantum physics is mind-blowingly difficult to comprehend and particles don't behave as our laws of classic physics think they should.

That is what makes it so fascinating.
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They're only illogical if we dont understand the deep lying physics involved. It's all logical irrespective of our understanding or lack thereof.
And this sounds like a star on a complex orbit gradually and periodically losing its mass to the black hole.
Nice to see this thread alive again and to talk to you mate.
 
giggs-beckham said:
They're only illogical if we dont understand the deep lying physics involved. It's all logical irrespective of our understanding or lack thereof.
And this sounds like a star on a complex orbit gradually and periodically losing its mass to the black hole.
Nice to see this thread alive again and to talk to you mate.
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Quite agree with you and good to discuss this fascinating subject.

I was referring more to the average level of understanding. I try to speak about this subject to friends and family but they find it a bit incomprehensible.

Please don't think that I am being pompous, but our interest is not that widely held.

What did you make of the antimatter article.
 
Buster15 said:
Quite agree with you and good to discuss this fascinating subject.

I was referring more to the average level of understanding. I try to speak about this subject to friends and family but they find it a bit incomprehensible.

Please don't think that I am being pompous, but our interest is not that widely held.

What did you make of the antimatter article.
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I couldn't find the article you mentioned
 
Buster15 said:
Quite agree with you and good to discuss this fascinating subject.

I was referring more to the average level of understanding. I try to speak about this subject to friends and family but they find it a bit incomprehensible.

Please don't think that I am being pompous, but our interest is not that widely held.

What did you make of the antimatter article.
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I try to speak to friends and family but it's no good I get told to stop talking cus it boring to people somehow. People would rather talk about music films or politics, that for me is boring. I love geology natural history and evolution but yea we only get a small window. Shame.
 
giggs-beckham said:
I couldn't find the article you mentioned
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If you go into the BBC website and then science, you can then search for antimatter.
I managed to find it just now by doing this.

It tries to explain why there was a tiny bit more matter than antimatter, because when matter formed very early on our of the energy in our universe, there should have been an equal amount of both.

In that case, when matter and antimatter came into contact, they should have anhialated eachother leaving just energy.

Another fascinating thing about how our universe developed.
 
giggs-beckham said:
I try to speak to friends and family but it's no good I get told to stop talking cus it boring to people somehow. People would rather talk about music films or politics, that for me is boring. I love geology natural history and evolution but yea we only get a small window. Shame.
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Same here.
Even though people like Brian Cox try to explain physics and cosmology in a way that is relatively easy to understand, it just doesn't seem to stimulate people.

At least we have forums like this.
 
Buster15 said:
Same here.
Even though people like Brian Cox try to explain physics and cosmology in a way that is relatively easy to understand, it just doesn't seem to stimulate people.

At least we have forums like this.
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Hey if you came to my local pub once this all over we could chat as it's a place where intelligent chat is encouraged. I live in Frome I hope you've got a place like that.
The drake equation what do you make of that and our seemingly miraculous position of being well here to discuss all this?
 
giggs-beckham said:
Hey if you came to my local pub once this all over we could chat as it's a place where intelligent chat is encouraged. I live in Frome I hope you've got a place like that.
The drake equation what do you make of that and our seemingly miraculous position of being well here to discuss all this?
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Unfortunately not. Just me, my inquisitive mind and numerous reference books.

Probably no secret that I mainly use Brian Cox books as, for me, they are the easiest to understand. I have tried books by Stephen Hawking but struggled a bit with them.

I have read a fair bit about the Drake Equation and find it both logical and fascinating.

In the Human Universe, he considers many of the 'bottlenecks' to the formation of complex cells.
Up to a few billion years ago, all there was on earth were single cell microbes. The bottleneck was to evolve from simple single cells to complex multi cellular life forms. And that required one cell to engulf another cell and then to change the function of that cell to perform more complex functions. Such as grabbing electrons from water and producing ATP Sugars which it then used for food, releasing Oxygen.

It is not know how or why one cell learnt to engulf another cell.
But without that, complex life forms would not have been able to evolve.
This was a pre-requisite for the Cambrian Explosion.
 
Buster15 said:
Unfortunately not. Just me, my inquisitive mind and numerous reference books.

Probably no secret that I mainly use Brian Cox books as, for me, they are the easiest to understand. I have tried books by Stephen Hawking but struggled a bit with them.

I have read a fair bit about the Drake Equation and find it both logical and fascinating.

In the Human Universe, he considers many of the 'bottlenecks' to the formation of complex cells.
Up to a few billion years ago, all there was on earth were single cell microbes. The bottleneck was to evolve from simple single cells to complex multi cellular life forms. And that required one cell to engulf another cell and then to change the function of that cell to perform more complex functions. Such as grabbing electrons from water and producing ATP Sugars which it then used for food, releasing Oxygen.

It is not know how or why one cell learnt to engulf another cell.
But without that, complex life forms would not have been able to evolve.
This was a pre-requisite for the Cambrian Explosion.
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The mitochondria that gives us energy to move and is the start of the cambrian explosion as you know. It has a separate genome and as far as I know is used to trace deep genetic liniage.
My theory is that the cell and the mitochondria is an example of symbiosis.
I was having a chat at my pub a while back with a clever guy, who works as a nature preserver at longleat and he didnt think I was onto anything. I cant see how it isnt an example of symbiosis though and the most poignant example ever.
 
giggs-beckham said:
The mitochondria that gives us energy to move and is the start of the cambrian explosion as you know. It has a separate genome and as far as I know is used to trace deep genetic liniage.
My theory is that the cell and the mitochondria is an example of symbiosis.
I was having a chat at my pub a while back with a clever guy, who works as a nature preserver at longleat and he didnt think I was onto anything. I cant see how it isnt an example of symbiosis though and the most poignant example ever.
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I am by no means a biologist, but isn't the very concept of the cell by definition symbiosis?
 
giggs-beckham said:
The mitochondria that gives us energy to move and is the start of the cambrian explosion as you know. It has a separate genome and as far as I know is used to trace deep genetic liniage.
My theory is that the cell and the mitochondria is an example of symbiosis.
I was having a chat at my pub a while back with a clever guy, who works as a nature preserver at longleat and he didnt think I was onto anything. I cant see how it isnt an example of symbiosis though and the most poignant example ever.
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Isn't a wel-known fact that mitochondria started as a separate microorganism (like bacteria), invaded cells, both realized that they can be helpful to each other and since then it has been a symbiosis?
 
Revan said:
Isn't a wel-known fact that mitochondria started as a separate microorganism (like bacteria), invaded cells, both realized that they can be helpful to each other and since then it has been a symbiosis?
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That sounds mito-familiar.

...I’ll grab my coat.
 
Revan said:
Isn't a wel-known fact that mitochondria started as a separate microorganism (like bacteria), invaded cells, both realized that they can be helpful to each other and since then it has been a symbiosis?
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Exactly, and this is the definition of symbiosis.
 
Revan said:
Isn't a wel-known fact that mitochondria started as a separate microorganism (like bacteria), invaded cells, both realized that they can be helpful to each other and since then it has been a symbiosis?
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My understanding is that mitochondria only started AFTER a single cell engulfed another single cell.
It then turned the engulfed cell into a different type of cell and made it do something different.

That is the point that this was a major bottleneck.
 
giggs-beckham said:
The mitochondria that gives us energy to move and is the start of the cambrian explosion as you know. It has a separate genome and as far as I know is used to trace deep genetic liniage.
My theory is that the cell and the mitochondria is an example of symbiosis.
I was having a chat at my pub a while back with a clever guy, who works as a nature preserver at longleat and he didnt think I was onto anything. I cant see how it isnt an example of symbiosis though and the most poignant example ever.
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You are right. The engulfing of one cell by another is termed endosymbiosis.

But every plant on our planet is the result of endosymbiosis. Which means that it only occurred once.

So. The issue is, how did one single cell learn how to engulf another single cell. How did endosymbiosis occur.
Because for a massive length of time, it had not occurred. And there is no specific reason for it to occur.

Single celled organisms could have remained as just that. For millions or even billions of years.
Fortunately for us, they didn't. And that mutated cell managed to survive and reproduced itself and became the basis for all living plant life.

And that is one of the most fundamental considerations for the Drake Equation.
 
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Buster15 said:
You are right. The engulfing of one cell by another is termed endosymbiosis.

But every plant on our planet is the result of endosymbiosis. Which means that it only occurred once.

So. The issue is, how did one single cell learn how to engulf another single cell. How did endosymbiosis occur.
Because for a massive length of time, it had not occurred. And there is no specific reason for it to occur.

Single celled organisms could have remained as just that. For millions or even billions of years.
Fortunately for us, they didn't. And that mutated cell managed to survive and reproduced itself and became the basis for all living plant life.

And that is one of the most fundamental considerations for the Drake Equation.
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Its probably not that it learned to but that it happened randomly and then natural selection kept it going. An evolutionary imperative.
My drake equation question was more to ask do we think these seemingly perfect conditions for life are so special, really because were the only planet with life but so what, what makes us special? There is no perfect conditions on Mars or venus for example.
Basically I dont think we live in a deterministic universe.
 
giggs-beckham said:
Its probably not that it learned to but that it happened randomly and then natural selection kept it going. An evolutionary imperative.
My drake equation question was more to ask do we think these seemingly perfect conditions for life are so special, really because were the only planet with life but so what, what makes us special? There is no perfect conditions on Mars or venus for example.
Basically I dont think we live in a deterministic universe.
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The thing which makes our planet Ideal for life seems to be that we have the right conditions for liquid water.
In fact all three conditions, gas, liquid and ice.

I certainly don't believe that our planet is in any way unique and even some of the moons around Jupiter and Saturn may have water.

Eventually, we will find an answer to the ultimate question: Are we alone.

I think it is highly likely that the answer is No.
 
I think we arent alone in the universe. But that intelligent life is so rare and spread out in space and time that the chances of us meeting them is very low as nothing can travel fast enough to get there and our civilisations wont last long enough...

Would love to be wrong though.
 
Buster15 said:
What makes you think that.
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cat-meme-do-they-still-worship-us-gallery-becomeawag.jpg



We were obviously engineered by an alien cat race, to be their slaves.
 
giggs-beckham said:
I think we arent alone in the universe. But that intelligent life is so rare and spread out in space and time that the chances of us meeting them is very low as nothing can travel fast enough to get there and our civilisations wont last long enough...

Would love to be wrong though.
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This for me too.

I'm absolutely convinced there is, has been and will be life elsewhere in the universe.

I'm equally convinced that we have never been visited by aliens and a lot of the people who claim to have seen alien spacecraft do far more harm than good to the notion of alien life as far as public perception goes.
 
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