You are assuming we qualify as intelligent for them.
Astronomy & Space Exploration
- Thread starter MrMarcello
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We have self-awareness and have constructed vessels that allowed us to travel to another planetary body, if they didn't view us as intelligent they'd be a bit daft themselves, given their own species would've gone through a similar period.
They might have studied 50,000 other species/civilizations over the years who have done just that and as a result have a different criteria for what they are looking for when it comes to intelligence.
Again, all that is an assumption. Travelling few 1000km away against the pull of 10 meters per second per second maybe an achievement for us, not necessarily for another. And the last line is completely over the top.
We're talking about a hypothetical species of interstellar super-scientists, most of it is going to be based upon assumptions. We're the only species out of several billion in the history of our planet to have achieved that short hop, and are intelligent according to most available metrics, so I merely doubt they'd have "no interest whatsoever in finding out anything about our world".
Which is why I am merely over simplifying it. How many species on this tiny speck of dust we live on, and how many are deemed intelligent? Even if we go to to what you said earlier, them having passed the same stage we are right now, a very very bold assumption, that would only render us even more useless for them. The odds are not quite in the favour of this, are they?
It's not like we aren't studying less intelligent species though.
There's a high chance that primordial life exists on Enceladus :
As for more complex life-forms, as humans we are bound by our senses which dictates reality according to us, and interpret the world through a very limited scope. For all we know, sentient aliens might be all around us, only they have different means of communication or even perception.
If intelligent lifeforms exist within our galaxy, that perceive the cosmos as we do :
1. They might be much lower on the evolution chain, and maybe they have not evolved in the order we did. The odds of them evolving into humanoid forms are almost non-existent. Even if they have evolved much further in the specific order we did, they could be on our equivalent of the bronze age.
2. If they have progressed scientifically to have created sophisticated EM detection/ radio communication equipment (our current level or thereabouts), our signals have traveled just 200 light years and we have no other means to communicate. That is the ceiling of our current understanding.
3. If they are much more advanced that us, and capable of interstellar travel, they might have even visited earth in the past (Nephilim ?). In a peaceful non-intrusive scenario, maybe they handed us basic technology and are monitoring our progress ? Or maybe they just aren't interested. And more realistically, interplanetary or intergalactic contact could be extremely dangerous for humans. We don't even know how to peacefully coexist with other lifeforms on our planet. Which leads to the thought - what if they view us as savage animals, or even parasites who are ripping earth apart, and a scourge that must be eliminated for the betterment of other forms of life on the planet ?
It's like Pandora's box and I'd rather be left alone TBH. Even Hawking is wary of (potentially intrusive and violent) alien life-form :
As for more complex life-forms, as humans we are bound by our senses which dictates reality according to us, and interpret the world through a very limited scope. For all we know, sentient aliens might be all around us, only they have different means of communication or even perception.
If intelligent lifeforms exist within our galaxy, that perceive the cosmos as we do :
1. They might be much lower on the evolution chain, and maybe they have not evolved in the order we did. The odds of them evolving into humanoid forms are almost non-existent. Even if they have evolved much further in the specific order we did, they could be on our equivalent of the bronze age.
2. If they have progressed scientifically to have created sophisticated EM detection/ radio communication equipment (our current level or thereabouts), our signals have traveled just 200 light years and we have no other means to communicate. That is the ceiling of our current understanding.
3. If they are much more advanced that us, and capable of interstellar travel, they might have even visited earth in the past (Nephilim ?). In a peaceful non-intrusive scenario, maybe they handed us basic technology and are monitoring our progress ? Or maybe they just aren't interested. And more realistically, interplanetary or intergalactic contact could be extremely dangerous for humans. We don't even know how to peacefully coexist with other lifeforms on our planet. Which leads to the thought - what if they view us as savage animals, or even parasites who are ripping earth apart, and a scourge that must be eliminated for the betterment of other forms of life on the planet ?
It's like Pandora's box and I'd rather be left alone TBH. Even Hawking is wary of (potentially intrusive and violent) alien life-form :
This is absolutely the crux of it all. We know what we observe, and we probably observe feck all*.
*A paradox awaits.
So what, they just evolved straight into hyper-intelligence?
We study ancient civilisations, stone age cave paintings, fossilised remains of our ancestors, the behaviour of our genetic cousins and even marvel at the problem solving ability of pigs in our various scientific endeavours for heaven's sake, so I'm not sure how your argument stands on firmer ground than mine to be honest.
What if our entire cosmos is actually less than a Planck Length across from the perspective of progressively larger universes in a Matryoksha doll arrangement of sorts ? 
What if our entire cosmos is actually less than a Planck Length across from the perspective of progressively larger universes in a Matryoksha doll arrangement of sorts ?
Christopher Nolan's Doodlebug short springs to mind.
As Raoul said, we cannot consider ourselves as the benchmark when observing anything beyond our star.
You get me, you actually have no idea how happy I get to find someone who can share such views with me.What if our entire cosmos is actually less than a Planck Length across from the perspective of progressively larger universes in a Matryoksha doll arrangement of sorts ?
Christopher Nolan's Doodlebug short springs to mind.
You get me, you actually have no idea how happy I get to find someone who can share such views with me.
Amirite ?!?! High five !
All the scenarios are as likely as the rest really.
Our existence and intelligence might be as significant to them as ants are to us. Does anyone bother communicating with ants on the way to work?
Similarly, as someone rightly pointed out, many sharp brains consider signalling to be suicidal, hawkings a prime example. So maybe the other planets are smarter than us and simply don't signal.
Or perhaps they already visited earth and left long back?
A very interesting explanation I came across was technology. What if the technology being used to signal by other more developed species is just way superior to our methods? It'd be like entering wall Street and using a walkie talkie and then being amazed when no one responds. Well, they're all on smartphones.
Our existence and intelligence might be as significant to them as ants are to us. Does anyone bother communicating with ants on the way to work?
Similarly, as someone rightly pointed out, many sharp brains consider signalling to be suicidal, hawkings a prime example. So maybe the other planets are smarter than us and simply don't signal.
Or perhaps they already visited earth and left long back?
A very interesting explanation I came across was technology. What if the technology being used to signal by other more developed species is just way superior to our methods? It'd be like entering wall Street and using a walkie talkie and then being amazed when no one responds. Well, they're all on smartphones.
We aren't the benchmark, just the sole example and we're a species that thinks empirically. Just as we look for water when looking for life, even though it's theoretically possible for life to evolve without it.As Raoul said, we cannot consider ourselves as the benchmark when observing anything beyond our star.
You get me, you actually have no idea how happy I get to find someone who can share such views with me.
Possible, but the radio spectrum is very interesting in its own terms scientifically so it's just as likely they'd have even more sensitive and powerful instruments for detecting the waves than we do. But as our sphere of audibility still only has a radius of 100 light years or so, maybe we just need to be patient for another 500 years...! I'm still pretty sure they're all long dead
We aren't the benchmark, just the sole example and we're a species that thinks empirically. Just as we look for water when looking for life, even though it's theoretically possible for life to evolve without it.
Possible, but the radio spectrum is very interesting in its own terms scientifically so it's just as likely they'd have even more sensitive and powerful instruments for detecting the waves than we do. But as our sphere of audibility still only has a radius of 100 light years or so, maybe we just need to be patient for another 500 years...! I'm still pretty sure they're all long dead
Not really clued up on the signalling technology. Will our signals be received if the technology being used by a more advanced species is far more different and advanced?
While it's a hugely interesting topic and one I like to read about and all, do the researchers not get a bit depressed in the knowledge that they pretty much definitely won't find out about another lifeform in their lifetime? Even when I read about it, all I can think about is how much I really want to be around when we do find a planet with a lifeform, and how I'd love to know what's actually out there.
It's just radio waves, whilst they'll have gone beyond normal radio communications for general day to day living, they'd likely still have the radio telescopes for astronomy which would pick up our output. More of a problem is if you stop producing the radio waves before someone's spotted you.
Yeah I think about that, when missions to send submarine probes to Europa get mooted and you find out they wouldn't get there till past 2050 or something
I guess they just think they're laying the groundwork for others in future. Hopefully some huge leap in propulsion happens soon...They probably do find it a bit depressing, but at least our chance of finding intelligent life is still higher than anyone who's ever existed before. Those researchers are discovering new things all the time too as technology advances.
And I'm hoping if anyone discovers us first, they won't be hostile like Hawking predicts. If they were, they'd surely have destroyed themselves before they got that far. As we almost inevitably will do before we figure out how to travel to other solar systems.
It's funny how people act as if humans are the only conscious species on the planet earth. I doubt we'd have more luck empathising with and communicating with species that evolved on another planet than we have with those we evolved alongside.
Absolutely gorgeous pictures Nick! Thanks for sharing. Can't wait to see the pics of Pluto when New Horizons does the flyby.
Getting some pretty tantalising ones already:
Can even see hints of surface features on Charon already, amazingly.
Thanks, Sam Cristoforetti's twitter had some great shots of Earth while she was on the ISS too.
Speaking of the Pluto mission:
And today's Pluto in a Minute:
Pluto
Great thread. A new discovery today.... by me.
Fecking love space.
Awesome. Expecting more detailed imagery in the coming days, apparently the resolution will be 500-600 better than the one from today. July 14 circled on the calender : At the closest approach, it'll be just 7800 miles off Pluto's surface.
Simulation of the flyby for those interested in New Horizons' projected trajectory and timeline :
Also, there's an aggregate map of Pluto's surface acquired between June 27 and July 3 :
http://www.forbes.com/sites/brucedo...-pluto-map-features-resemble-whale-and-donut/
Simulation of the flyby for those interested in New Horizons' projected trajectory and timeline :
Also, there's an aggregate map of Pluto's surface acquired between June 27 and July 3 :
http://www.forbes.com/sites/brucedo...-pluto-map-features-resemble-whale-and-donut/
That gif is incredible. 9 years travel time (I remember watching the launch on a shitty low bandwidth stream), and it's within the orbit of the outer moons for a mere few hours, travelling at a relative speed of 30,000mph
May as well do a countdown to the encounter with the sole remaining unvisited planet in the solar system (I don't care what crummy science bods say, it's a planet) with some nice pictures of other rocky bodies beyond the asteroid belt.
Europa
We don't know what the red stuff is. Likely home to a vast subsurface ocean that dwarfs the volume of water on our blue planet, which could well be home to life thanks to the insane tidal stretching of Jupiter's gravity. A mission's planned to visit it at the end of the next decade, I may be dead before a sub gets into that ocean though...
Iapetus
One of two Saturn moons that looks pretty much like the Death Star, Iapetus has an odd two-tone surface, vast impact craters and a somewhat bizarre but huge ridge hugging its equator, approaching 10 miles in height. Basically a space walnut.
Bonus points for whoever knows the fictional link between the two.
May as well do a countdown to the encounter with the sole remaining unvisited planet in the solar system (I don't care what crummy science bods say, it's a planet) with some nice pictures of other rocky bodies beyond the asteroid belt.
Europa
Iapetus
Bonus points for whoever knows the fictional link between the two.
Is the link...Doctor Who?That gif is incredible. 9 years travel time (I remember watching the launch on a shitty low bandwidth stream), and it's within the orbit of the outer moons for a mere few hours, travelling at a relative speed of 30,000mph
May as well do a countdown to the encounter with the sole remaining unvisited planet in the solar system (I don't care what crummy science bods say, it's a planet) with some nice pictures of other rocky bodies beyond the asteroid belt.
Europa
We don't know what the red stuff is. Likely home to a vast subsurface ocean that dwarfs the volume of water on our blue planet, which could well be home to life thanks to the insane tidal stretching of Jupiter's gravity. A mission's planned to visit it at the end of the next decade, I may be dead before a sub gets into that ocean though...
Iapetus
One of two Saturn moons that looks pretty much like the Death Star, Iapetus has an odd two-tone surface, vast impact craters and a somewhat bizarre but huge ridge hugging its equator, approaching 10 miles in height. Basically a space walnut.
Bonus points for whoever knows the fictional link between the two.
Is the link...Doctor Who?[/QUOE]
Not the one I'm thinking of, but in fairness there are probably a ton of fictional links
Japetus in 2001 - A Space Odyssey and Europa in 2010 - Odyssey 2 maybe ? That's all I got..
Damn it!
Star Trek?
Star Trek?
That, or maybe from Illium from Dan Simmons.
This one is amazing
Ooh Charon.
BTW this gentleman apparently mapped its surface too :
PS : Not to diminish PlutoxCharon, but the Oort Cloud would be way more interesting to explore up close, life on earth itself might have started there. Sadly New Horizons will likely be non functional when it reaches there.
BTW this gentleman apparently mapped its surface too :
PS : Not to diminish PlutoxCharon, but the Oort Cloud would be way more interesting to explore up close, life on earth itself might have started there. Sadly New Horizons will likely be non functional when it reaches there.