[Revan]

Here's another player it's become fashionable to be seen hating.

It's a strange pattern. Players that are shit aren't liked here. Who would have though?

 

[MancunianAngels]

He should stay for a year.
He'll accept a smaller role, assuming we play 4231/433 a new winger would struggle to have an impact if we play Rooney, Mata and Adnan behind RVP

As I said on that other thread get first 11 sorted and improve overall squad if we're back in Europe next year.

 

[Matador8]

Here's another player it's become fashionable to be seen hating.

You need to learn the difference between hating a player, and thinking he isn't quite good for United.

 

[Sammyjunn]

He did at times especially in the big games.

Yeah oke, but in the regular games he didnt, while young did that every single match.

 

[MancunianAngels]

It's a strange pattern. Players that are shit aren't liked here. Who would have though?

Swap Young, TC23 etc for O'Shea, Fletcher, Park etc. All decent squad players to have.

The problem is there's less world class players to do the hard bit.

Everyone was utter shit last year, some get blame more than others. May aswell give them all a fresh start.

 

[goldenstatesplash]

It's a strange pattern. Players that are shit aren't liked here. Who would have though?

It's the kind of neolithic thinking that's best served miles and miles away from any club business, that is for sure. Next we'll be having 'shit player catwalks' where rabid fans stand and hurl abuse at players they don't like as they walk up and back. Of course, unbeknown to the fans there is a foot of thick glass so the players can't actually hear them.

 

[MancunianAngels]

Yeah oke, but in the regular games he didnt, while young did that every single match.

Apart from the 3 games he scored in. More than some of our so called stars.

 

[Revan]

Swap Young, TC23 etc for O'Shea, Fletcher, Park etc. All decent squad players to have.

The problem is there's less world class players to do the hard bit.

Everyone was utter shit last year, some get blame more than others. May aswell give them all a fresh start.

Young, Fellaini, Anderson shouldn't even compared to O'Shea, Fletcher and Park. The last three are definitions of reliable squad players that always performed and were good at football. The first three are the entire opposite, never perform and are shit at football.

 

[Raw]

The amount of hate and abuse he gets on Twitter and Facebook is utterly embarrassing. I think he could still play a role at the club as a squad player (and that's it).

 

[saivet]

The abuse he gets is really OTT. Kagawa did feck all last season nobody seemed to notice.

He was bought as a squad player who is decent on either wing and provide cover for Nani and Valencia.

The problem is our lack of quality elsewhere means we have suddenly expected him to be world class. Any winger would struggle to work with our slow midfield.

Didn't SAF say in his book that he was meant as a replacement for Giggs? Fergie wanted him to be a regular rather than cover and I think the fee and his wages suggest that.

 

[kps88]

Young, Fellaini, Anderson shouldn't even compared to O'Shea, Fletcher and Park. The last three are definitions of reliable squad players that always performed and were good at football. The first three are the entire opposite, never perform and are shit at football.

They've been times when lots on here thought otherwise.

 

[Shark]

The amount of hate and abuse he gets on Twitter and Facebook is utterly embarrassing. I think he could still play a role at the club as a squad player (and that's it).

Look at our best squad players over SAF's reign and a few from other top clubs around Europe and Young doesn't even meet that role for us. He's not good enough to play for us, just as Buttner wasn't. (Who was obviously even more of a liability.)

 

[Ducklegs]

Didn't SAF say in his book that he was meant as a replacement for Giggs? Fergie wanted him to be a regular rather than cover and I think the fee and his wages suggest that.

Aye, its a pretty mental thing to suggest we would spunk 16 million plus his astronomical wages just for him to be a squad player.

 

[Pexbo]

Didn't SAF say in his book that he was meant as a replacement for Giggs? Fergie wanted him to be a regular rather than cover and I think the fee and his wages suggest that.

It isn't the only time Fergie was wrong about a player, shouldn't come as such a shock and it's no slight on the man saying he made a mistake on him either considering the amount of great buys he made in 26 years compared to the bad ones.

 

[MancunianAngels]

O'Shea and Fletcher were called all sorts on here for years.

Let me apply some logic to my arguments. How many players do we genuinely have that would get in a top 4 side?

De Gea - Obviously

Rafael - yes, Jones, Smalling, Evans - squad players. Shaw - Yes

The midfield.

Aside from Herrera, our best midfielder is Carrick who'd struggle to get on the bench given the way he played last year.

Anderson, Fellaini, Cleverley. Obviously not, Fletcher would have been kicked out years ago by most clubs but I'm glad we have him around. Should be given a coaching role now.

Our attacking midfield/wingers

Nani on form yes but arguably hasn't been on form for 2 years. Valencia and Young are good back up options as they won't kick off due to lack of games at times. As I've already said be very difficult to fit a 30 million + winger into a side that potentially has Rooney, Mata, Januzaj and Van Persie in it. Our front Rooney, Mata and RVP would get in most sides, Januzaj has the potential to be brilliant. Kagawa who has a very high reputation hasn't done it enough in the last 2 years to warrant a near meltdown every time he doesn't start. Hernandez and Welbeck would be seen as back up options only

Big changes in squads over 3 months doesn't work.

 

[Bojan11]

Swap Young, TC23 etc for O'Shea, Fletcher, Park etc. All decent squad players to have.

The problem is there's less world class players to do the hard bit.

Everyone was utter shit last year, some get blame more than others. May aswell give them all a fresh start.

Young has had three seasons and is supposed to be at his prime and has done nothing apart from fall over a few times. That is his biggest contribution.

 

[saivet]

It isn't the only time Fergie was wrong about a player, shouldn't come as such a shock and it's no slight on the man saying he made a mistake on him either considering the amount of great buys he made in 26 years compared to the bad ones.

Of course, I'm just saying he that Young wasn't bought in to be a 'squad' player.

 

[MancunianAngels]

Of course, I'm just saying he that Young wasn't bought in to be a 'squad' player.

Given we had Nani, Park and Valencia at the time and were looking at Moura, Sneijder and Nasri around that period I'd say he was. The problems started for the team when Nani and Valencia (key for us in 10/11) lost form and we lost out on other targets.

 

[Shark]

On a more happy note though, I bet Ashley Young is gonna dive right into his cake.



I'll get my coat now.

 

[ravi2]

Here's another player it's become fashionable to be seen hating.

Because he is clearly not Manchester United quality... do you think he is?

 

[Revan]

They've been times when lots on here thought otherwise.

Well, always is a figure if speech, no player for us (bar Paul Scholes) has performed always good, but those players I mentioned have been generally reliable and good squad players.

 

[alibaba]

Because he is clearly not Manchester United quality... do you think he is?

Leicester bid £6m for Brighton striker Leonardo Ulloa..
Why don't they come offer that money for young?
We could just say he is yours for half the price and payment
can be made at 300 pounds a month.

 

[Enigma_87]

Given we had Nani, Park and Valencia at the time and were looking at Moura, Sneijder and Nasri around that period I'd say he was. The problems started for the team when Nani and Valencia (key for us in 10/11) lost form and we lost out on other targets.

Young is on a big wage to be a squad player.

 

[Amethyst]

It's crazy to think that our main wingers at the beginning of the 2011 season were:

Nani: Just had his best season at the club and had finally dropped most of critics who wanted him gone at the end of his second season. Would continue to impress in 11/12.
Valencia: Looked good coming back from his leg break and would go on to win player of the season, winning plaudits from everyone (even RAWK couldn't deny how good he was).
Young: A player that had impressed at Villa and though some didn't really understand the transfer, he had a decent first year (long forgotten by many on here) and was picked as first choice for England on the left at Euro 2012.
Park: A reliable, experienced squad player that could be used in the big games should we make the later stages of the Champions League or domestic competitions.

Now look at them. Nani has barely played in two years and has only shown flashes of being the same player when he has, Valencia has contributed little in terms of attacking play with people surprised he was offered a new deal, Young has had injures but has no confidence and most want him gone, Park is no longer here of course.

 

[Stobzilla]

It's crazy to think that our main wingers at the beginning of the 2011 season were:

Nani: Just had his best season at the club and had finally dropped most of critics who wanted him gone at the end of his second season. Would continue to impress in 11/12.
Valencia: Looked good coming back from his leg break and would go on to win player of the season, winning plaudits from everyone (even RAWK couldn't deny how good he was).
Young: A player that had impressed at Villa and though some didn't really understand the transfer, he had a decent first year (long forgotten by many on here) and was picked as first choice for England on the left at Euro 2012.
Park: A reliable, experienced squad player that could be used in the big games should we make the later stages of the Champions League or domestic competitions.

Now look at them. Nani has barely played in two years and has only shown flashes of being the same player when he has, Valencia has contributed little in terms of attacking play with people surprised he was offered a new deal, Young has had injures but has no confidence and most want him gone, Park is no longer here of course.

He was flying before that tournament, he had a good season with us and played very well in the warm up games leading up to Euro '12, then he had an absolute shocker and hasn't looked anything close to the same player since.

 

[SolidState]

I think Young might be unsellable, his wages are way to high for someone of his ability and he isnt good enough for most clubs in the top 6-7 teams in the league, he has gone from a decent all rounder to essentially a defensive winger. Something no one is really prepaid to pay that much for, he would be best suited to a club like west ham, Villa, Palace, Swansea (Although Dyer is better). We may end up running his contract down similarly with Nani. I honestly cant see anyone offering anything more than 3-5m and him having to more than half his wages.

Would he do that? not a chance, not whilst he has something like 2-3 years left on his insane contract. Our only hope is that someone like Fiorentina, Inter, AC Milan are tempted by a low fee. Perhaps Wolfsberg or perhaps Schalke.

 

[MancunianAngels]

Young is on a big wage to be a squad player.

They're all on massive wages.

My point throughout this thread is we may aswell keep the likes of him and Valencia for a year because any replacement will want to start nearly every game our front 4 is basically set in stone now. They won't kick up a fuss.

It's a different story next season when we're hopefully back in Europe and have the increased number of games to rotate big players.

 

[Rezyuz]

Looking back, im starting to wonder if SAF was rlly a genius with transfers/talents or that he was actually pretty bad at it.

 

[Amethyst]

He was flying before that tournament, he had a good season with us and played very well in the warm up games leading up to Euro '12, then he had an absolute shocker and hasn't looked anything close to the same player since.

It doesn't surprise me that people have forgotten about that though. Whenever we've played badly this season I've seen people post 'we replaced Ronaldo with Valencia- what do you expect?' as if the fact Valencia has been mostly disappointing for two years completely discredits his strong performances up until he switched to the 7 shirt.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Park, O'Shea, Fletcher - who are now considered excellent squad players, it seems, all received dog's abuse at one time or another. And they were all very vocally being labelled "not United quality".

In terms of being starters for a top club with European ambitions they weren't either, strictly speaking. But football doesn't work like that. You need players who aren't "United quality" to make up the squad - and some of these are often just as important as the ones who are "United quality". Look at Park and how Fergie used him in his rotation. Only idiots and ABUs rolled their eyes at Ji-Sung.

I'm not saying Young is in that bracket before anyone starts to cry here. But we need players beyond a starting XI. My feeling is that some fans don't quite appreciate this fact. There's a tendency to assess any player as though he were a starter - even though basic common sense should tell you this is not a valid way to judge more than half of any given squad.

 

[MoskvaRed]

Park, O'Shea, Fletcher - who are now considered excellent squad players, it seems, all received dog's abuse at one time or another. And they were all very vocally being labelled "not United quality".

In terms of being starters for a top club with European ambitions they weren't either, strictly speaking. But football doesn't work like that. You need players who aren't "United quality" to make up the squad - and some of these are often just as important as the ones who are "United quality". Look at Park and how Fergie used him in his rotation. Only idiots and ABUs rolled their eyes at Ji-Sung.

I'm not saying Young is in that bracket before anyone starts to cry here. But we need players beyond a starting XI. My feeling is that some fans don't quite appreciate this fact. There's a tendency to assess any player as though he were a starter - even though basic common sense should tell you this is not a valid way to judge more than half of any given squad.

The real issue with Young that riles people is that we paid 18 million and he is reportedly on big wages. That is what distinguishes him from the three players you mention (and I note you emphasize that you are not comparing them in terms of ability - I thinks that's wise as certainly Fletcher and Park could make a more useful contribution). It just seemed a strange transfer at the time and has nothing in the intervening three years has altered that initial sense of bafflement. Maybe Fergie thought he could step up like Dwight Yorke but it has proved a waste of money.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

The real issue with Young that riles people is that we paid 18 million and he is reportedly on big wages. That is what distinguishes him from the three players you mention (and I note you emphasize that you are not comparing them in terms of ability - I thinks that's wise as certainly Fletcher and Park could make a more useful contribution). It just seemed a strange transfer at the time and has nothing in the intervening three years has altered that initial sense of bafflement. Maybe Fergie thought he could step up like Dwight Yorke but it has proved a waste of money.

Aye - I know. Personally I agree with what was said above: Fergie brought in Young at a time when he had three other viable options out wide; Park, Nani and Valencia. Given his team selections at the time I find it hard to believe he - Fergie - regarded Young as the obvious starter among those four. More likely that he wanted options, alternatives, etc. In short, I think Young was bought as a squad player of sorts. The money was stupid - but that's the domestic market for you.

The question has to be, though, whether he can be a squad player for us NOW, based on his ability, not his salary or the question of whether he's "United quality" in the sense that, say, RVP is.

Young isn't worth the money. Fair enough but quite irrelevant as the money has already been paid and he's here on a contract which doesn't expire for another two years.

Young isn't good enough to be a starter for a United side with high ambitions. Fair enough but quite irrelevant as the idea is to keep him on the books as a squad player, not a starter.

Young is shit and can't play football. Clearly not true.

 

[shaggy]

A squad player should be someone like Schurrle, solid player who produces good stats and can keep first teamers on their toes.

 

[caisenma]

Young is shit and can't play football. Clearly not true.

... No, I'd say that's pretty much on the money.

 

[MoskvaRed]

Aye - I know. Personally I agree with what was said above: Fergie brought in Young at a time when he had three other viable options out wide; Park, Nani and Valencia. Given his team selections at the time I find it hard to believe he - Fergie - regarded Young as the obvious starter among those four. More likely that he wanted options, alternatives, etc. In short, I think Young was bought as a squad player of sorts. The money was stupid - but that's the domestic market for you.

The question has to be, though, whether he can be a squad player for us NOW, based on his ability, not his salary or the question of whether he's "United quality" in the sense that, say, RVP is.

Young isn't worth the money. Fair enough but quite irrelevant as the money has already been paid and he's here on a contract which doesn't expire for another two years.

Young isn't good enough to be a starter for a United side with high ambitions. Fair enough but quite irrelevant as the idea is to keep him on the books as a squad player, not a starter.

Young is shit and can't play football. Clearly not true.

There won't be the same impetus for rotation next season without European football. I think ultimately I'd rather see a younger player with room for development used as back up but if he stays on, so be it. From his own perspective, he might be better accepting lower wages for regular game time elsewhere.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

... No, I'd say that's pretty much on the money.

It's not. I suspect you know that too. But it's far easier, of course, to simply say he's completely useless. Makes any discussion superfluous, doesn't it?

 

[Chesterlestreet]

There won't be the same impetus for rotation next season without European football. I think ultimately I'd rather see a younger player with room for development used as back up but if he stays on, so be it. From his own perspective, he might be better accepting lower wages for regular game time elsewhere.

I agree with all that. We'll see how it goes soon enough. If Young stays and LVG doesn't give him a sniff, he'll probably be more inclined to leave (even if it costs him in terms of wages) himself.

 

[Gannicus]

If we has to do it all over again, clearly no one here would support Picking up Ashley Young for the fee/wages we paid for him. But here he is and as a squad man he can help at the margins. There will be no buyers for him at his current wages, so we'll just have to let him run out his contract and use him once a month or so.

I didn't like the signing in the first place. This is another one of those Ferguson legacy signings that went tits up, like Anderson, that's no doubt much like the albatross signing every major club has to deal with.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Did well today, nice cut back for James' first goal and then supplied well timed runs and finishes for Ander's through balls. Might workout for him as a wide forward in a 3-4-1-2.

 

[Kostur]

It was what, 2 goals and 2 assists ? Fantastic performance from him, really took his chance. It's still Young of course but bloody hell, maybe he could work in that formation.