And I'm going to start proof reading everthing I write from now on! <img src="graemlins/nervous.gif" border="0" alt="[Nervous]" />
Originally posted by thumper:
<strong>Ah yes, I forgot the Stretford End is the republic of Mancunia.The last game I got to see was the Nantes match and the little oul'wan beside me kept giving out shite about Ruud and the way he never passed the ball. It was quite funny actually but looking back on it I really should have cracked her one in the jaw to shut her up.
Actually, the Republic of Mancunia refers to the whole of Manchester. The Stretford End just happens to be the only place the club will let us put banners. Although if you get into WT2 in the near future, check out the murals that have been commissioned. (They will hopefully be ready for 17th Aug...)
And yes, you should have had a word...THEN smacked her one.
I'll know for next time.
Originally posted by bazalini:
<strong>
Bollocks Rory, I spent this morning myself backing myself up that I am not the only person in Ireland that holds my view. Its easier for me to say someone like Kevin Moran is against Roy Keane, rather than say Dick Moore of 43 Crumlin Rd Dublin is against him. When you debate something you tend to do that.
Wise up - we've now come from a position where I was the only person in Ireland to have this unpatriotic opinion and not from Ireland, to the nation is devided and that a match in Tolka is not an opinion for the nation.
Wise Up - I support Ireland before Utd and I'll cheer keane on as much as I have in the red of Utd this season But he does not deserve to play for Ireland again.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Don't really follow your first wise up there, re-read.
Baz you started your rant this morning with talk about Des Cahill's phone in, vox-pops, Irish Indpendent opinion poll etc. And threw in a couple of 'big name references' to support your case. I've already addressed what I think of that argument in an earlier post. Keane is unpopular in Irish footballing circles, no question, but that doesn't mean the guy isn't right (at least some of the time).
And as for Dick Moran from the Crumlin Road, I live just up the road in Walkinstown and I can testify that Dick is wholeheartedly behind Keano, so no more misinformation
I just don't follow your logic. The majority of people have turned against Roy - so he must have been wrong. The majority of football experts have turned against Roy - so he must be wrong. Well yes he was wrong, in part.
So was McCarthy, Wise Up, its very easy to take McCarthy and the mobs side in this debate. It is a lot harder to defend Keane because the 'majority' of people are ill-informed half-wits. Thats how governments get elected.
There is no way any reasonable person could say that Roy Keane doesn't deserve to play for Ireland again. What did he do? Did he kill somebody? Did he attack someone in the street? Was he a drug cheat? Did he lie about his nationality? Bolloxs Baz. He had a row with a prick of manager who couldn't handle being in Roy Keane's shadow and was kicked out as a result.
The fact is the Irish team under Charlton didn't have any one single star (McGrath was for me). Charlton was the star of the show.
With McCarthy it was different. Roy Keane is the star. He dragged Ireland through qualifying and didn't pander to McCarthy's ego. So McCarthy reacted the only way a beligerent man like him could. He turned on the talent that got him to the world cup. Confronted Keane and belittled him. Treated him like a school child. When he knew he was the best player he had.
So McCarthy is at least as much to blame. More to blame in my opinion. I don't hear you saying that McCarthy 'doesn't deserve' to manage Ireland anymore. I don't hear you saying that coz you're too caught up in the mob mentality that turns at the individual.
Well if I follow your logic then Mick McCarthy is the greatest manager ever born. He must be, everyone says so.
Rory,
So we've come from a position in which the vast majority supported Keane, to a position in which you admit a majority is against him and go on to call them "leprachauns". I would warn you against seeing things the Dunphy Way
Fact is that McCarthy, even without *the player that got them there* managed to field a very young team that played good football, showed as much passion as you could have expected with Keane - or more and got the results.
So the argument that they were a bunch of amateurs on holiday doenst really stand up to scrutiny, since they gave it their very best shot. Conclusion: the preparations cannot have been that bad or unambitious.
Fact of the matter is that Roy "prima ballerina" Keane couldn't stand the fact that McCarthy got a lot of attention, then there was the Quinn-hype surrounding his testimonial, there was Staunton going for this 100 cap etcetc... Mister Star-of-the-team couldnt accept that he wasnt the only one who got attention.
Add to that, that the others were players who never played on the big stage before (unlike RK in the CL) and wanted to enjoy the occasion - which didnt mean they werent going to give it their best shot. However, "Captain Fantastic" couldn't understand that for a lot of players this was an *Alice in Wonderland*-experience (like for him probably his first CL campaign had been). Something in which they wanted to give it their best shot but also something they wanted to enjoy...
Another thing: your argument that people have always disliked him because he was Irish and a Utd fan doesnt really add up. I mean: since when would Irish people dislike someone because he was Irish? 6 months ago, Keane was the biggest hero of the nation, now I know people who spent their saturdayafternoon trying to scrape his name off their Utd and Ireland-shirts. He is a vilain and it is of his own making.
Also: the argument that Keane stood up against the FAI is wrong: he should have done that way before the WC or afterwards, not during final preparations, when it was both too late and when his rebellion could only cause problems and damage.
Conclusion: Keane is a very small human being, who lives in his own little world with his wacky friends Eamonn Dunphy and Paul Mcgrath and other who darent tell him he is wrong in anything he does.
SNAP OUT OF IT, KEANE.
TRM.
So we've come from a position in which the vast majority supported Keane, to a position in which you admit a majority is against him and go on to call them "leprachauns". I would warn you against seeing things the Dunphy Way
Fact is that McCarthy, even without *the player that got them there* managed to field a very young team that played good football, showed as much passion as you could have expected with Keane - or more and got the results.
So the argument that they were a bunch of amateurs on holiday doenst really stand up to scrutiny, since they gave it their very best shot. Conclusion: the preparations cannot have been that bad or unambitious.
Fact of the matter is that Roy "prima ballerina" Keane couldn't stand the fact that McCarthy got a lot of attention, then there was the Quinn-hype surrounding his testimonial, there was Staunton going for this 100 cap etcetc... Mister Star-of-the-team couldnt accept that he wasnt the only one who got attention.
Add to that, that the others were players who never played on the big stage before (unlike RK in the CL) and wanted to enjoy the occasion - which didnt mean they werent going to give it their best shot. However, "Captain Fantastic" couldn't understand that for a lot of players this was an *Alice in Wonderland*-experience (like for him probably his first CL campaign had been). Something in which they wanted to give it their best shot but also something they wanted to enjoy...
Another thing: your argument that people have always disliked him because he was Irish and a Utd fan doesnt really add up. I mean: since when would Irish people dislike someone because he was Irish? 6 months ago, Keane was the biggest hero of the nation, now I know people who spent their saturdayafternoon trying to scrape his name off their Utd and Ireland-shirts. He is a vilain and it is of his own making.
Also: the argument that Keane stood up against the FAI is wrong: he should have done that way before the WC or afterwards, not during final preparations, when it was both too late and when his rebellion could only cause problems and damage.
Conclusion: Keane is a very small human being, who lives in his own little world with his wacky friends Eamonn Dunphy and Paul Mcgrath and other who darent tell him he is wrong in anything he does.
SNAP OUT OF IT, KEANE.
TRM.
Originally posted by stoned.rose:
<strong>
Gone up in my estimation
And mine....
Mick McCarthorse wanted it and he got it, although I think he now realizes that he was completely wrong...
You don't push someone like Roy Keane into a corner, he's bound to come out fighting...
Good on yer Roy...
Martin:
Whatever happened to "Discretion is the better part of Valor (or Valour)?"
No need to call McCarty names. Even if he did "push Keane into a corner," it was Keane's job to keep his mouth shut. A manager, no matter how useless is still the manager (like my reference to judges, supra), and as another previous poster pointed out, Keane's outbursts came at the one time when they would do no good, too late for change, too early for reform. 'tis unfortunate that such conduct is considered "heroic" by the RedCafe masses.
Whatever happened to "Discretion is the better part of Valor (or Valour)?"
No need to call McCarty names. Even if he did "push Keane into a corner," it was Keane's job to keep his mouth shut. A manager, no matter how useless is still the manager (like my reference to judges, supra), and as another previous poster pointed out, Keane's outbursts came at the one time when they would do no good, too late for change, too early for reform. 'tis unfortunate that such conduct is considered "heroic" by the RedCafe masses.
> I have a problem that he put his own fecking
> stubbornish ahead of others.
Keane's own fecking stubborness is what's dragged him from fecking nothing, to the captain of the biggest club in the world, and dragged vital victories out of a side which would otherwise have lost.
Stubborness = Roy Keane. You don't ask a man like that to set aside one of the key aspects of his personality, you *manage* it so he *uses* it as a *strength*. This is what Alex Ferguson does brilliantly, and what Thick Mick failed so abjectly to do.
> stubbornish ahead of others.
Keane's own fecking stubborness is what's dragged him from fecking nothing, to the captain of the biggest club in the world, and dragged vital victories out of a side which would otherwise have lost.
Stubborness = Roy Keane. You don't ask a man like that to set aside one of the key aspects of his personality, you *manage* it so he *uses* it as a *strength*. This is what Alex Ferguson does brilliantly, and what Thick Mick failed so abjectly to do.
> Even if he did "push Keane into a corner," it
> was Keane's job to keep his mouth shut.
Maybe. But it was Mick's job not to push his captain into a corner! Mick is *paid* to think of stuff like that, in a way that Roy Keane isn't.
> 'tis unfortunate that such conduct is
> considered "heroic" by the RedCafe
> masses.
Keane wasn't heroic, he was stupid. But McCarthy is paid to be smart - Keane isn't. Any manager who can mishandle his most valuable asset so comprehensively, isn't a man you want to hand anything else valuable to.
> was Keane's job to keep his mouth shut.
Maybe. But it was Mick's job not to push his captain into a corner! Mick is *paid* to think of stuff like that, in a way that Roy Keane isn't.
> 'tis unfortunate that such conduct is
> considered "heroic" by the RedCafe
> masses.
Keane wasn't heroic, he was stupid. But McCarthy is paid to be smart - Keane isn't. Any manager who can mishandle his most valuable asset so comprehensively, isn't a man you want to hand anything else valuable to.
> Even if he did "push Keane into a corner," it
> was Keane's job to keep his mouth shut.
Maybe. But it was Mick's job not to push his captain into a corner! Mick is *paid* to think of stuff like that, in a way that Roy Keane isn't.
> 'tis unfortunate that such conduct is
> considered "heroic" by the RedCafe
> masses.
Keane wasn't heroic, he was stupid. But McCarthy is paid to be smart - Keane isn't. Any manager who can mishandle his most valuable asset so comprehensively, isn't a man you want to hand anything else of value. Mick's going to feck up again soon, watch it happen.
> was Keane's job to keep his mouth shut.
Maybe. But it was Mick's job not to push his captain into a corner! Mick is *paid* to think of stuff like that, in a way that Roy Keane isn't.
> 'tis unfortunate that such conduct is
> considered "heroic" by the RedCafe
> masses.
Keane wasn't heroic, he was stupid. But McCarthy is paid to be smart - Keane isn't. Any manager who can mishandle his most valuable asset so comprehensively, isn't a man you want to hand anything else of value. Mick's going to feck up again soon, watch it happen.
Originally posted by ronanm:
<strong>and Ireland supporter how do you think Keane will be treated by the Irish contingent at OT this year and by away support in particular??
As a fecken liverpool scum , you should ask Yourself why you are posting on this Forum when it has nothing to do with the scum at all ????
Maybe it is cos ur more worried about our team than ur own , my dad always says ,
People who are always worrying about what the next man is doing often don't find time for there own lives, and upon reflection will find that they are in a far worse situation.
<img src="graemlins/yawn.gif" border="0" alt="[Yawn]" /> <img src="graemlins/yawn.gif" border="0" alt="[Yawn]" /> <img src="graemlins/yawn.gif" border="0" alt="[Yawn]" /> <img src="graemlins/yawn.gif" border="0" alt="[Yawn]" />
come on guys............everyone knows giggsy miles better than keano. He's faster, he's more skillful, and is better at making opportunities for others and himself, keano is only better at shooting and tackling.
Originally posted by The Red Machine:
<strong>Rory,
So we've come from a position in which the vast majority supported Keane, to a position in which you admit a majority is against him and go on to call them "leprachauns". I would warn you against seeing things the Dunphy Way
Fact is that McCarthy, even without *the player that got them there* managed to field a very young team that played good football, showed as much passion as you could have expected with Keane - or more and got the results.
So the argument that they were a bunch of amateurs on holiday doenst really stand up to scrutiny, since they gave it their very best shot. Conclusion: the preparations cannot have been that bad or unambitious.
Fact of the matter is that Roy "prima ballerina" Keane couldn't stand the fact that McCarthy got a lot of attention, then there was the Quinn-hype surrounding his testimonial, there was Staunton going for this 100 cap etcetc... Mister Star-of-the-team couldnt accept that he wasnt the only one who got attention.
Add to that, that the others were players who never played on the big stage before (unlike RK in the CL) and wanted to enjoy the occasion - which didnt mean they werent going to give it their best shot. However, "Captain Fantastic" couldn't understand that for a lot of players this was an *Alice in Wonderland*-experience (like for him probably his first CL campaign had been). Something in which they wanted to give it their best shot but also something they wanted to enjoy...
Another thing: your argument that people have always disliked him because he was Irish and a Utd fan doesnt really add up. I mean: since when would Irish people dislike someone because he was Irish? 6 months ago, Keane was the biggest hero of the nation, now I know people who spent their saturdayafternoon trying to scrape his name off their Utd and Ireland-shirts. He is a vilain and it is of his own making.
Also: the argument that Keane stood up against the FAI is wrong: he should have done that way before the WC or afterwards, not during final preparations, when it was both too late and when his rebellion could only cause problems and damage.
Conclusion: Keane is a very small human being, who lives in his own little world with his wacky friends Eamonn Dunphy and Paul Mcgrath and other who darent tell him he is wrong in anything he does.
SNAP OUT OF IT, KEANE.
TRM.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Bollocks. I never said the vast majority supported Keane. I used to go to Lansdowne for the qualifier, including this campaign, and I could hear the sniping about Keane if he didn't play in friendlies etc. My point is there have always been a lot of people ready in wait to have a pop at Keano. And as for your point about 'why would someone dislike him because he's Irish?' is sadly misguided. I didn't say people dislike him because he's Irish, I said lots of people dislike him because he's successful, wealthy, plays for United and Irish. If you don't believe me then you are displaying an obvious lack of understanding behind the Irish pshyce. Begrudgery is a disease over here, always has been.
As as for you dismissing my holiday camp claims and your claims that we 'got the results', well that is truly laughable. What other team sells package deals to fans allowing them to stay in the team hotel? What other national team flew to a tropical Island with no football pitch to prepare for the world cup? What other team went on the piss in Seoul the night we qualified for the second round? (Thats true I'm afraid). Only the Irish my friend, only the Irish.
So don't tell me that we got the results. Don't tell me that three draws and a win against Saudi Arabia is success. Yes Ireland put in spirit performances but thats the least I would expect from a bunch of lads playing for their country at any time. But the fact remains the achieved nothing and the one player that could have made a real difference was sitting in Manchester.
You don't know what you're talking about I'm afraid.
I think the words "Fail to prepare, Prepare to fail" summed it all up. We thought it was great to get to the 2nd round and then we go out in extra time against a 9 man Spanish team. I can guarantee you that in Ireland after that game the one thing that everyone was saying was that we would have won that if Keano had been playing and I really think we would have. Eamonn Dunphy said on his show that we (the nation)will cheer the lads but the team will have lost and there in lies the problem. The Governing bodies of sport in Ireland expect to lose, its just about how good we make it look in the process because then its the "gallant Irish" or some other stupid headline. We have a young population, we're a sports mad population, given the facilities we could be competeing but its all little kingdoms in the governing bodies here. Its all what can we get for ourselves. Once that attitude changes then I think we as a nation will be able to express ourselves properly on world stages because we will have had the facilities to train our own people, to nurture and guide them and we'll produce world stars left right and centre. Just look at our youth football teams over the last few years, and thats only been with a small cash injection.
As a Manchester United fan, I'll not change my mind to cheer others
Originally posted by Martin Henry:
<strong>
And mine....
Mick McCarthorse wanted it and he got it, although I think he now realizes that he was completely wrong...
You don't push someone like Roy Keane into a corner, he's bound to come out fighting...
Good on yer Roy...
Exactly! McCarthy knew exactly what he was doing!
Hecengineered a situation to get rid of an awkward bastard, and the tried to switch the blame! It's a shame McCarthy isn't man enough to own up to his part in the fiasco!
<img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" />
I have God knows how many posts on thisfecking disaster of a situation,so to save time I would have to agree with Rory & on the vast majority of his posts.McCarthy has been a disaster since he got the job ,there is a litany of mistakes by him:the fact is he has got by on his hugely inflated ego,talking horse shit at every opportunity.All you ever hear out of him is "my team",what he fails to realise is that its not his fecking team,its the nations.He never picked the best team available,always pickng players who pandered to his insatiable ego,eg playing Kelly instead of Finnan,telling Irwin to"prove yourself to me"insisting on playing Duff out of position game after game,while playing one of his limited yes men instead,persisting for a whole qualifying campaign with 3 centre backs,sitting on slender leads time after time when the team was obviously incapable of doing so.The man is unfit to manage the national team,his shafting of Keane was the icing on the cake for him.Why did he and Keane never get on?Because Keane refused to go along with all of that old horse shit,the pandering,the favouritism, he saw through it and refused to go along with it.Unfortunately the pathetic preperation for the world cup was the last straw,he lost the rag,and Mccarthy saw his opportunity and went for it.If any one wants to question Keanes patriotism look at the qualifiers.The man confirmed his position as the best midfield player in the world today.McCarthy should have been sacked a long time ago,however his incompetence has always mirrored and complemented the pathetic organisation(sic) that is the Fai.Irish football will never reach its potential while these self serving clowns are in charge