What specifically do you think Klopp's weaknesses and mistakes were? I think he was an utterly brilliant manager, and despite not liking Liverpool too much, I think he was great for the league too. I think he went up against a winning machine that even Alex Ferguson maybe could've come unstuck against, despite all history to the contrary. I would've loved to see Ferguson take on Pep and City, but Klopp gave a great account of himself in the great man's absence.
Arne Slot | Liverpool manager (Posture and/or Sack Watch)
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Just as no one remember Bill Shankly after Bob Paisley, you know, the one that won all the trophies, took over. Yeah, right. No Klopp = No Slot.
Klopp won it at an cantor. This is weak stuff.
You posting questions on a forum doesn't mean "questions are being asked"!
It's like a TV channel with a talkshow where some people spout crazy theories and an hour later, the news section of the same channel would go "People are saying...".
I think he was brilliant too, but I do think his sides were overly emotional and the crazy energy came from that. When more control was needed (lost 3/4 Euro finals, for example), they didn’t have it.
There were also the bad seasons when they couldn’t cover the same ground and fell off terribly because of it.
All managers have weaknesses, even great ones like Klopp. If Slot were to win a league title, he hasn’t done anything unique to a Liverpool manager in the PL era anymore (Benitez - CL, Houlier - multiple trophies in a season, Slot - PL), so I think there would be a little more debate on what this side have, that his side didn’t, should they cross the line comfortably.
I think that is a perfectly reasonable point of view.
You posting questions on a forum doesn't mean "questions are being asked"!
It's like a TV channel with a talkshow where some people spout crazy theories and an hour later, the news section of the same channel would go "People are saying...".
I said “will be asked” mate, in the case of Slot winning the title. Take a breath.
Just popped on Football Weekly podcast. Jonathan Wilson: “You have to give Jurgen Klopp enormous credit…he began the rebuild, he blooded a lot of young players, he left the club in pretty much as a good state as any man who’s left a club for a successor”
He did all of that mate, absolutely. He is a great coach, but he also failed at times where he perhaps shouldn’t have, and currently, this team that he constructed are playing much better than they did under him last season. Players like Gakpo, Konate, Gravenverch and even Robertson look much, much better and VdV/Salah are at their very best once again.
There is room for nuance in these arguments and, if Slot gets over the line, there will be debates on those nuances. That’s only natural when someone takes a team on, and has them doing better.
You're bringing in a ridiculous narrative 5 months after Slot's start at Liverpool yet I am the one overreacting, sure.
That's already a bit more reasonable indeed but still doesn't take into account everything. First of all, no one is saying that Klopp was without faults or didn't have the odd in-game mismanagement of his teams. That is true and will remain true regardless of what Slot is doing. However, to include European finals in that argument is again a bit weird given how the second final against Real went down. If you have any recollection of that game at all you'd know that it was not on Klopp and his "overly emotional" approach at all.
No matter what Slot does, Klopp will have done something unique, he made Liverpool relevant again, and won all the things you mentioned combined, which is something no PL manager at Liverpool has done. Why should there questions be asked when Slot's Liverpool team wins the title with (likely) less points than two of Klopp's teams who didn't win the title? Sometimes the opposition is just inferior and that's already the case now with City no matter how the rest of the season plays out.
Klopp set up Slot with an excellent, young side. Slot might get more out of certain individual players at the moment, like Konate, Gakpo and Gravenberch, but they were very young when they arrived under Klopp and needed some time to adjust and improve. In no way does that diminish what Klopp did and how he performed in his last season with (largely) the same squad. In no way whatsoever.
Questions will be asked by people who want to downplay Klopp's achievements, nobody else.
Whatever Slot is doing this year with Liverpool, it will be because of how inferior the other teams are than before, not because he is doing a better job than Klopp.
Whatever Slot is doing this year with Liverpool, it will be because of how inferior the other teams are than before, not because he is doing a better job than Klopp.
Arsenal was different circumstances. In Klopps and Fergies cases, they chose when they wanted to leave Liverpool and Utd, and they left after very recent success.
Wenger was basically made to leave Arsenal because the team had degraded over a number years, he wasn't leaving the team in a good place.
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I think if Slot had come in to Liverpool with the squad/club in the state that it was in 2015, he would've had a harder time than Klopp did getting us to the level. Part of the reason we're doing so well under Slot is because Klopp left the club in such a good state.
That being said, I do also believe that Slot's in game management is better than Klopp's.
That being said, I do also believe that Slot's in game management is better than Klopp's.
Do you think Slot could win the Bundesliga with Dortmund in the early 2010s?
I'm saying that league wi was mainly about having a world class striker on top of his game. That can take you a long way if you have a fairly solid outfit behind him and a genius manager.
But we never saw that RvP again. Was his last good season. That alone was a huge drop off for that teams ability.
Then as I say look what happened to a lot of the players immediately or shortly after. Way past their best, retirements, massive injury problems, young players nowhere near good enough. A squad full of problems.
But...that's not a managers legacy. A first XI comes and goes pretty quickly. It only takes one or two to leave and a team can be very different.
Fergie's legacy was way bigger than a few players. It was an entire institution he built.
Ive just watched the liverpool city game.
Liverpools press is the best ive seen.
Their desire is immense. Much as i hate to say it Liverpool look the best team in the prem by a distance.
Liverpools press is the best ive seen.
Their desire is immense. Much as i hate to say it Liverpool look the best team in the prem by a distance.
No idea. Possibly? But didn't Klopp build them up himself as well?
Klopp's in game management was the best there is.
It was getting the team set up right from the outset that he struggled more with in recent years, hence all the late winners and comebacks.
Slot is so good he could have won the PL with Leicester in 2016.
He did. I think if Slot had taken over after Klopp's title in 2011 he could have defended it in 2012 like Klopp himself did. But I doubt that Dortmund would have gotten to that level if he had taken over instead of Klopp 2007.
Yeah, fair enough. I definitely misremembered how poor the squad he left was. Crazy that he managed to win the league so comfortably with it!
I don't know if you are saying this as a dig at Ajax, but it's a great point, particularly shown in times of crisis and problem solving over when things are going well and it's all looking marvellous.
It's like a sick joke when us and Pool have our own dutch baldie and one is a complete opposite of the other.
Thats pretty undeniable really, this is still Klopp's team
How dare you question your Messiah?!?!?
In and of itself it doesn't, but more often than not, a significantly lower point total is the result of a weaker winner, which implies a weaker league overall. In the specific case of 10/11, european performances suggest that was not the case though. I mean, United made the CL final
United got the least Dutch, least Ajax manager of all dutch former ajax managers though
Carrick peaked in 12/13 and was the best midfielder in the league, then began his decline afterwards. Van Persie played half the minutes. Those two were like 60% of 12/13 United. That team was absolutely spent, and unlucky on top of that
Can't believe what Klopp said about him.
Yeah, fair enough, as I said after I didn't realize quite how done that side was. Crazy really
They look absolutely smashing at the moment. I hated klopp because he is such a unlikable person and im hating this guy because he is so likable. I think the issue is Liverpool.
It's a slight dig, but not entirely.
Ajax coaches generally refuse to adjust to different circumstances. Their way is THE way. Look at Frank de Boer who wants to implement Ajax footbal at Crystal Palace or Louis van Gaal who insisted on his possession game at United while it obviously wasn't working. Ten Hag went even further and just tried to buy his entire old squad. Other examples includes Peter Bosz who can play some great football with a dominant side, but won't adjust this if his team isn't the best in the league or the Van Basten's, Van Persie's and I'm expect, Van Nistelrooy's who fail to realize that their midtable players aren't naturally gifted enough for their ideas at times. So it's just an Ajax thing, but adeptability is very important. And something our trainers just haven't learned since Dutch club footbal ceased to be relevant.
Slot is the first one to just adept to circumstances. He's much more pragmatic at Liverpool so far than he was at Feyenoord. You can't just all out attack in England, because there's not a lot of really bad opposition teams as opposed to the Dutch leage.
Just seen this on the BBC Sport page!
Liverpool manager Arne Slot on Mohamed Salah's future and whether Sunday was his last home game against Manchester City: "Maybe Mo knows more about the 115 accusations for [Man City] not to be in the Premier League next season and I do expect them in the Premier League next season.
"The boring answer is always the same. This is not the place for me to talk about Salah's contract and maybe already, I've said too much about the joke I just made. That will probably get the headlines.
"It was a joke. I repeat, it was a joke."
City strongly deny 115 alleged breaches of Premier League financial rules.
Liverpool manager Arne Slot on Mohamed Salah's future and whether Sunday was his last home game against Manchester City: "Maybe Mo knows more about the 115 accusations for [Man City] not to be in the Premier League next season and I do expect them in the Premier League next season.
"The boring answer is always the same. This is not the place for me to talk about Salah's contract and maybe already, I've said too much about the joke I just made. That will probably get the headlines.
"It was a joke. I repeat, it was a joke."
City strongly deny 115 alleged breaches of Premier League financial rules.
If by game management you mean not behaving like a maniac on the sidelines then I agree.
I don't know if that's positive. Seems very stupid to me.
As if it was penned by a love-struck girl. On a United forum of all places
Lovely needle.
Heh
Annoyingly likeable
I'd go out for a pint with him but I'd wear my full Manchester United kit and call him a cnut the whole time
I'd go out for a pint with him but I'd wear my full Manchester United kit and call him a cnut the whole time
Yes, annoyingly... he would probably wear full Liverpool kit and call you a klootzak the whole time and the two of you would have lots of fun with it.