Argentina at the WC

skeeta said:
No Caballero, No Gaitan, No Gonzalo Rodriguez, No Salvio, No Musacchio, No Pastore, No Tevez, No Vietto. This is probably the most confusing squad choices from all the squads announced today.

Caballero is their best goalkeeper, ffs!
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Argentina's selections have been headscratchers for years now, so it isn't really revelatory. Romero is terrible but continuing to exclude Caballero has been hard to justify. I'd say the same about Demichelis instead of say Fazio. Musacchio has been benefited from great hype this past season but is hardly a questionable exclusion. Same for Tevez who is very clearly out of favor with the NT, no different than the Nasri situation for Les Bleus, IMHO

Palacio is a smart inclusion, however. The defense and midfield continue to be the problems for Argentina since they have an imperious attack force. When you count on Gago to be your creative force in midfield, you know you're in trouble
 
The best player in history -for me- coincided with the worst national managers. No wonder Messi won't win the WC. Sabella is not that good, Maradona was shit of course, and Pekerman committed the crime of being too conservative and of not playing Messi. Why? because he was back from injury and just 19 yrs old.. Idiot!!

Caballero should start, but no, he is not even included in the squad !!

They don't have a playmaker, a creative midfielder. Heck, I'd even take Aimar or Riquleme if I can't find any. 34 and 35 years old. Big deal !!

Their defence is a joke. You can win trophies with inept attack and solid defence, but not the opposite. Where's Musacchio, why didn't you select him earlier to test him on the national level ?!
 
They have a relatively easy schedule. A Group of Nigeria, Bosnia and Iran shouldn't be a problem for them. They'll face Ecuador or Switzerland, if France take 1st place in their group that is, which wouldn't be an easy game but Argentina should go through eventually. Then one of Portugal, Belgium or Russia in the QF.

Edited to avoid misinformation.
 
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Anyone know how they're likely to line up? I'm imagining something like this:

Sergio Romero

Zabaleta - Garay - Otamendi - Rojo

Mascherano

Banega - Di Maria

Messi - Agüero - Lavezzi

Way off? I think that team has a shot, even if I'm not as blown away by the entire squad as I had expected.
 
Otamendi out for Federico Fernández, Banega out for Gago and Lavezzi out for Higuaín.

I think anyway, someone else can correct me if it's going to be different.
 
You can ask questions about the back line but I think this Argie side has a real shot at going the distance.

If Messi were their one ridiculous threat you can find a solution for that. But Aguero and Di Maria too?

Germany and Spain are still the favorites for me, but if the Argie back line can come together they'll have to be reckon ended with. But of course that's the question: can they hold the likes of Germany down to 2 goals?
 
Skorenzy said:
Sure, Sabella stubbornly refuses to see or hear Willy Caballero for 3 years, but Demichelís has half a decent season and gets back in just like that? What a joke...

Oh, and Di Santo :lol: provisional squad or not :lol:
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This, this & this. Caballero should be the second name on the team-sheet after Messi, & he isn't even going to Brasil. Demichelis shouldn't be on the plane. Di Santo has played well for 5 months in his entire career, so far - I can't believe he's been picked.

It goes without saying that Tevez is the best of their forwards after Messi & Aguero, but Messi doesn't seem to like playing with him (they don't seem very compatible at all) & Aguero is better when fit, anyway. I don't think it will be an issue for them. Lavezzi should start every game, in my opinion, & so should Di Maria (as part of a midfield 3, like he has done for Real Madrid this year).
 
Cantona'sCollar said:
This, this & this. Caballero should be the second name on the team-sheet after Messi, & he isn't even going to Brasil. Demichelis shouldn't be on the plane. Di Santo has played well for 5 months in his entire career, so far - I can't believe he's been picked.

It goes without saying that Tevez is the best of their forwards after Messi & Aguero, but Messi doesn't seem to like playing with him (they don't seem very compatible at all) & Aguero is better when fit, anyway. I don't think it will be an issue for them. Lavezzi should start every game, in my opinion, & so should Di Maria (as part of a midfield 3, like he has done for Real Madrid this year).
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Honestly, I don't even mind Demichelís going that much (unless Sabella actually thinks about using him as a starter -- that would make zero sense really after a campaign where he's established Fede Fernández and Garay as his CB pairing), because of his experience in general and he has had two very decent seasons (first season at Málaga and now at City) since being axed from the NT in 2011, so not the worst option to have in case one of your starters picks up an injury/gets suspended. What bothers me, though, is how easily he is reinstated (instead of trying out say Gonzalo Rodríguez, Musacchio, Fazio as well) but then someone who should genuinely be looked at (Willy C) doesn't even appear to have ever been in the picture in the first place!

IMO, Di María has been the second most key figure for Sabella's Argentina behind Messi -- and it's there that he was first used in that left-sided CM/"shuttler" role that he has played at R.Madrid all season. Zabaleta and Gago very important in Sabella's system as well.
 
If aguero is fully fit and messi can remove the finger from his arse that's been there for a few months now, their terrible defence and average midfield will not matter, they will have a great chance.
 
Messi's role for Argentina is very different to the one he has at Barcelona. He doesn't play as the 'false 9', more a playmaker, which makes him extremely dangerous if Aguero can stay fit for a few weeks.
 
Skorenzy said:
Honestly, I don't even mind Demichelís going that much (unless Sabella actually thinks about using him as a starter -- that would make zero sense really after a campaign where he's established Fede Fernández and Garay as his CB pairing), because of his experience in general and he has had two very decent seasons (first season at Málaga and now at City) since being axed from the NT in 2011, so not the worst option to have in case one of your starters picks up an injury/gets suspended. What bothers me, though, is how easily he is reinstated (instead of trying out say Gonzalo Rodríguez, Musacchio, Fazio as well) but then someone who should genuinely be looked at (Willy C) doesn't even appear to have ever been in the picture in the first place!

IMO, Di María has been the second most key figure for Sabella's Argentina behind Messi -- and it's there that he was first used in that left-sided CM/"shuttler" role that he has played at R.Madrid all season. Zabaleta and Gago very important in Sabella's system as well.
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Perhaps I was overboard about Dimichelis, he hasn't actually been bad at all in recent times. I just don't think he deserves to get a game on the basis of anything he's shown in the last few months, I have nothing against the guy. I have simply never rated him. Like you say, though, he's an older head & that may help their cause. Experience never hurts. Willy Caballero's exclusion is hilarious, it's even more mind-boggling than, say, Brasil not picking Miranda, because of the dross that Argentina will have to have in goal instead of him. He's top class, it's not even a matter of opinion when it comes to whether he is the best of their GK options. I am actually in disbelief. Madness, and i'm sure he's feeling robbed. Gutted for him, especially as it's such a big tournament for Argentina, what with their chances now.

Di Maria is a fantastic player, & I agree - I also think he'll be one of the main men, perhaps more so than Aguero. The energy he provides is invaluable, & their other midfield options aren't exactly lightning, are they? He adds a bit of pace, has great workrate, and is a serious goalthreat from distance. Zabaleta and Gago are both quality (in my opinion, some may disagree with Gago), & they do have some decent backup in Suso, Banega & Mascherano (none of whom have been particularly great of late, but are all solid and have proven themselves in the past).

I really think Argentina have a chance, but the Caballero exclusion is unbelievable. He was the best keeper in La Liga after Courtois, for me.
 
EC007 said:
He came out and said Messi would swap all his medals at Barca for one World Cup. What a load of nonsense.
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I think the Champions League medal is arguably as important as a world cup final.
 
I wouldnt go that far but he has 3 of the things. One great month once in 4 years is not as good as 3 Champions League medals in my opinion. But the prestige of the World Cup seems to outway everything else.
 
Jev said:
Anyone know how they're likely to line up? I'm imagining something like this:

Sergio Romero

Zabaleta - Garay - Otamendi - Rojo

Mascherano

Banega - Di Maria

Messi - Agüero - Lavezzi

Way off? I think that team has a shot, even if I'm not as blown away by the entire squad as I had expected.
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Think exactly the same..that defense is awful though.
 
As a Welshman, Argentina are, of course, my second team. So, given that Wales aren't at the World Cup I will be supporting these lot.
 
If Messi wins the world cup he will no doubt go down as the greatest ever (imo he already is). He is only 26 so he will be in his peak form for the 2018 world cup and that is when I think Argentina will win it. Messi, Aguero, Higiuan, Lavezzi, Di maria, Zabaleta, Garay they have quite a lot of in form players right now as well. But I think they will finish 3rd in Brazil.
 
Before every World Cup, I always get the feeling that Argentina will do it. And again, I think they have a great chance. Glad to see Tevez miss out.
 
I wonder if Argentina goes all the way, which I really hope, cause as I said in another thread they're my second favourite national team, what will Messi haters say then. Cause they were all about how Messi must win a WC to prove he's one of the best of all time..
 
Scarecrow said:
They have a relatively easy schedule until the quarters. A Group of Nigeria, Bosnia and Iran shouldn't be a problem for them. They'll face Ecuador or Switzerland, if France take 1st place in their group that is, which wouldn't be an easy game but Argentina should go through eventually. Germany in the 1/4 finals though...
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or in other words, the same situation as in 2006 and 2010.

If it finishes first, wouldn't Argentina possibly face Portugal in the QF if Portugal finish second and Germany first (Messi vs Ronaldo) ? I don't think the top of groups F and G would face each other in the QF,
 
Avatar said:
Their defence is a joke. You can win trophies with inept attack and solid defence, but not the opposite. Where's Musacchio, why didn't you select him earlier to test him on the national level ?!
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Well, if Garay plays like he did tonight that would be a massive improvement for their defence.
 
I honestly don't rate Argentina's chances any higher than I'd rate England's. Last time around even England put up a better show against the Germans then the Argies. I would never put any money on them beating 3 class teams in a row once they reach the knockouts.
 
Avatar said:
or in other words, the same situation as in 2006 and 2010.

If it finishes first, wouldn't Argentina possibly face Portugal in the QF if Portugal finish second and Germany first (Messi vs Ronaldo) ? I don't think the top of groups F and G would face each other in the QF,
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Yes, you're right. My mistake. The quarter is 1F(ARG)/2E(SWZ) - 1H(BEL/RUS)/2G(POR). Germany will play with France most likely (in the QF).
 
TheShedEnd said:
Messi's role for Argentina is very different to the one he has at Barcelona. He doesn't play as the 'false 9', more a playmaker, which makes him extremely dangerous if Aguero can stay fit for a few weeks.
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Exactly. Makes it even more remarkable that he's been so prolific under Sabella. Ever since he took over the #10 back in 2008 he's been played behind two strikers which limited his goalscoring chances, but Sabella's system has made it a lot more fluid at the top... even though so much depends on Messi (and Di María) being auxiliary playmaking MFs really.


Messi's record under diff Arg managers:

*Pekerman (2004-2006), 10 apps, 2 goals, 2 assists (0.20 gpg)
*Basile (2006-2008), 25 apps, 9 goals, 6 assists (0.36 gpg)
*Maradona (2008-2010), 15 apps, 2 goals, 2 assists (0.13 gpg)
*Batista (2010-2011), 11 apps, 4 goals, 6 assists (0.36 gpg)

*Sabella (2011- ), 23 apps, 20 goals, 8 assists (0.91 gpg)


That said, Messi's finishing has been very poor this season (below his usual 20+% conversion rate) and there's clearly something hampering him mentally or maybe even physically these past few months.
 
Haven't made any bets yet, but I'll be putting money on Argentina to win it.
With it being in South America that will be a significant advantage in itself.

Their strength in depth in their attacking department is very special.
Add that to a solid midfield and a defence which is very underrated, you've got a squad that is more than capable of winning the thing.

Argentina v Brazil final?
 
What's so bad about a midfield three of Mascherano, Gago and di María?
 
Bob Loblaw said:
What's so bad about a midfield three of Mascherano, Gago and di María?
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Why aren't they producing world class CM's these days is more my point? I don't rate Mascherano or Gago as being top class or remotely good enough to deal with a midfield like Germany or Spain. Their lack of proper CM's was shown up last time (as well as their inept coach). I don't think you can simply fire your way to a WC triumph.
 
Sixpence said:
Why aren't they producing world class CM's these days is more my point? I don't rate Mascherano or Gago as being top class or remotely good enough to deal with a midfield like Germany or Spain. Their lack of proper CM's was shown up last time (as well as their inept coach). I don't think you can simply fire your way to a WC triumph.
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Mascherano is definitely top class - he hasn't played in his natural position at club level for a while but he's still one of the best defensive midfielders in the world and has proven over the years he can deal with top class players comfortably, turning in brilliant performances in Europe. Gago...well I haven't seen him much recently so I'm not sure how he's performing (and even at his best I wouldn't call him top class) but with him in the team I think they're well balanced in the middle. That lack of balance is what I think was the biggest problem in the last World Cup, not the quality of their centre midfield. With Sabella I think they'll do much better, even if the lack star names defensively.

That's separate to why they aren't producing world class centre midfielders though, I suppose. You're right about that, well it seems that way at least, I don't follow Argentina youth football so not sure if there is a genuine production problem there but it does look like they're producing a lot more attackers than midfielders/defenders.
 
Avatar said:
The best player in history -for me- coincided with the worst national managers. No wonder Messi won't win the WC. Sabella is not that good, Maradona was shit of course, and Pekerman committed the crime of being too conservative and of not playing Messi. Why? because he was back from injury and just 19 yrs old.. Idiot!!

Caballero should start, but no, he is not even included in the squad !!

They don't have a playmaker, a creative midfielder. Heck, I'd even take Aimar or Riquleme if I can't find any. 34 and 35 years old. Big deal !!

Their defence is a joke. You can win trophies with inept attack and solid defence, but not the opposite. Where's Musacchio, why didn't you select him earlier to test him on the national level ?!
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Pekerman biggest crime was substiduting Riquelme on the last 20 minutes of the game. He thought that the game is finished and made that sub. Then Germany tok control of the game and eventually scored to send the game on extra time. It was quite a shame considering that Argies were the best team on the tournament until that stage and Riquelme was the best player.

Since Pekerman though, their managers have been shit.
 
is there any particular reason why they don't appoint foreign managers? why do they keep giving job to the likes of Basile, Maradona and Batista?
 
Neither them or Brazil will ever hire a foreign coach. Sabella isn't a bad coach sure he has his favorites but the first coach to get the best out of Messi for the NT, took Argentina to 1st place in qualifying and had the 2nd best defense in doing so.
 
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