Are we (United fans) part of the problem...?

This is part of the problem. The owners see the fans as one of the barometers of success. United are a business first, a football club second.

If fans are consuming the product and appearing happy with what they're getting, then yeah it would be beneficial to win things financially too,but that's still a 'success' of sorts. You're making money from people who are totally cool with being a mid table cup run type of club.

If those fans also get upset at the idea of 'not sticking by the manager' and that's some weird part of the ethos, then you might be tempted to try to stick things out until it was no longer possible.
 
pocco said:
It was cringe worthy stuff. Like I always say, we've been fortunate to witness the best to ever do it, for 20+ years. You'd think our fans know a good coach by now. Yet that's not the case, quite the opposite in fact. We're definitely the least knowledgeable fan base collectively.
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Must be a bit disheartening if you're Sir Alex Ferguson - what a waste of his career/legacy, when the key viewers seem to think anyone could've done it given enough time.
 
It's all well and good having a go at the fans, but those sat clapping like seals are not the same as (E.G.) the Stretford enders. Anyone who has walked down the gantries after a game know too well the voices of discontent can be heard loud and clear there.

Those clapping after that and Liverpool should think about what they are clapping. Are they actually applauding their own virtue? They will clap no matter what. If Ten hag leaps the barriers and let's rip right into their teary eyes...they will probably still clap.
 
The sooner we price the happy-go-lucky, this is OK, Mark fans out of watching us the better.

Give football to risk-takers, the ball-havers, the mavericks, the I don't stand for that nonsense people like lawyers, CEOs, managers, marketing executives, bankers.
 
Raees said:
Yes far too sentimental and not clued up enough on modern tactics. A bad mix which allows frauds to get away with it for far too long and it’s been a rinse and repeat since Fergie left.
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Not just tactics - but modern football in general and the way successful clubs/organisations work. In many ways, our fanbase is quite old and football's left it behind.

I don't think we're that big in the under 20 demographic so this problem will just continue to get worse.
 
We are too mellow, fat off the success of Fergie. We don't have the rabid element to our fans. We still allow the glazers to come watch games with barely any resistance.
 
Sadly yes, fans are also part of the problem. We've accepted mediocrity, we exalt average players like Bruno as heros and untouchable and stuck with Ten Hag after possibly one of the most pathetic season of football we've ever had in the premier league last year
 
The worrying part for me is - what happens if we get our own Di Matteo, who flukes a big trophy? What depths would our fanbase allow us to sink to? Relegation?

Our ceiling for such a historically big club, is quite low because of its own fanbase. Unfortunately, the fanbase has also lowered the clubs floor as well - which until last season looked like top 4 minimum.
 
If I had jumped on the pitch and decked ETH yesterday would everything be ok?

Room for reflection.
 
Owners
ETH
Players

I am part of the problem for not knowing everything that goes on behind the scenes and not watching other teams to offer alternatives.
 
I was at the game in the Stretford end lower and clapped the players off for a few reasons:

1. As someone who is not a regular matchgoing fan I feel lucky to be there in amongst the locals and regular match goers, and a sense of duty to echo the spirit of those supporters around me, most of whom were clapping (they were also singing til the last minute) and I don't want to be that one day tripper who managed to get a lucky ticket (through the club) that goes against that spirit of the regular matchgoing fans or generally shows less support to the team. This is more their club than mine.

2. Although it could be argued that the players didn't put enough effort in, I think they looked lost in the system that the manager wanted them to play in, so in a way they were doomed from the outset. So I felt a bit bad for them.

3. The players themselves were clapping the fans at the end, so in a way I was just reciprocating that too.


That all being said, I was actually quite surprised when the fans around me were clapping the players off because I must admit I did not immediately have the instinct to do that after that performance. So the strongest reason for me doing so was number 1, with 2 and 3 being kind of ways to make myself feel better about it .
 
Yes, fan reaction to the FA Cup win is probably the only thing that kept him in the job. People let their emotions cloud their judgement and now we’ve had to endure another terrible season as a result.
 
AltiUn said:
Yes, fan reaction to the FA Cup win is probably the only thing that kept him in the job. People let their emotions cloud their judgement and now we’ve had to endure another terrible season as a result.
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How should we have celebrated one our most famous ever wins v a rival mate?
 
Skills said:
Must be a bit disheartening if you're Sir Alex Ferguson - what a waste of his career/legacy, when the key viewers seem to think anyone could've done it given enough time.
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It's almost so bad it's funny. Any average manager + time and patience = Fergie.

feck me, to have your legacy reduced to that :lol: Thankfully, there will always be a few of us to tell future generations how damn good he actually was. Some of these cretins don't know a damn thing about football.
 
pocco said:
It's almost so bad it's funny. Any average manager + time and patience = Fergie.

feck me, to have your legacy reduced to that :lol: Thankfully, there will always be a few of us to tell future generations how damn good he actually was. Some of these cretins don't know a damn thing about football.
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Who do our smarter supporters want to see get the head coach job to turn it around when Ten Hag gets moved on?
 
Utd heap said:
How should we have celebrated one our most famous ever wins v a rival mate?
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Not by begging the manager who underperformed all season to stay and getting viscous with anyone who said otherwise, and belatedly celebrating his contract extension in the summer, we sacked LvG for a much better season than the one we had last year after an FA Cup win.
 
AltiUn said:
Yes, fan reaction to the FA Cup win is probably the only thing that kept him in the job. People let their emotions cloud their judgement and now we’ve had to endure another terrible season as a result.
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Spot on.

The result was great but anyone who honestly thinks Ten Hag was going to improve this year was delusional. Sooner he's out the door the better.
 
Probably, this weird narrative that we don't sack managers, which is rubbish. We got the right longterm managers twice, twice that is all, which some seem to think if we keep this manager or that manager when it is obviously not working, said manager could be The One. Maybe we just have to accept that yes we might get success in the future, but it might take a number of sackings and it could be fleeting not sustained over a 20 year period.
 
horsechoker said:
The sooner we price the happy-go-lucky, this is OK, Mark fans out of watching us the better.

Give football to risk-takers, the ball-havers, the mavericks, the I don't stand for that nonsense people like lawyers, CEOs, managers, marketing executives, bankers.
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The Patrick Bateman section of the fanbase understands that a Sigma doesn't support losers.
 
AltiUn said:
Not by begging the manager who underperformed all season to stay and getting viscous with anyone who said otherwise, and belatedly celebrating his contract extension in the summer, we sacked LvG for a much better season than the one we had last year after an FA Cup win.
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I must have missed the hoards of match going fans begging anyone. It was at best a lukewarm reaction.

And we can barely influence it in a closed season anyway, bizarre take.
 
I respect the match going fans because they pay good money to watch a game but they are far too passive and nice and are definitely part of the problem as to why our standards are so poor.

Contrast that to the top Spanish or Italian teams where their fans don’t take bullshit performance and let everyone know about it
 
Freak said:
I respect the match going fans because they pay good money to watch a game but they are far too passive and nice and are definitely part of the problem as to why our standards are so poor.

Contrast that to the top Spanish or Italian teams where their fans don’t take bullshit performance and let everyone know about it
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Right I'm gone from the thread before I post something that gets me banned
 
Spanish fans are awful.

Anyway we tried to find a new manager but could find no suitable candidate. I am sure if things don't improve we will revisit that line of thinking quickly.
 
Freak said:
I respect the match going fans because they pay good money to watch a game but they are far too passive and nice and are definitely part of the problem as to why our standards are so poor.

Contrast that to the top Spanish or Italian teams where their fans don’t take bullshit performance and let everyone know about it
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Agreed 101%
 
Utd heap said:
I must have missed the hoards of match going fans begging anyone. It was at best a lukewarm reaction.

And we can barely influence it in a closed season anyway, bizarre take.
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Online fans have a far bigger influence and presence than match going fans, anyone who doesn’t know that still lives in the 90s. The online fanbase was so vocal in support of him it was like we were sacking Sir Alex, it’s been cited in numerous articles that fan sentiment was a big factor in why Ten Hag still has his job.
 
Top_Bins said:
It's all well and good having a go at the fans, but those sat clapping like seals are not the same as (E.G.) the Stretford enders. Anyone who has walked down the gantries after a game know too well the voices of discontent can be heard loud and clear there.

Those clapping after that and Liverpool should think about what they are clapping. Are they actually applauding their own virtue? They will clap no matter what. If Ten hag leaps the barriers and let's rip right into their teary eyes...they will probably still clap.
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Bore off. We're not one of those fanbases who boo every time we don't get what we want. Some of those matchgoing fans who were there yesterday were also there during the 70s and 80s when we were shit but still played attacking football, and we rarely booed back then, so we aren't going to start relentlessly booing now just because some online fans think that we're letting the players/manager off the hook.

Yesterday we were clapping to show our support for the desire to score and continue to create attacks in the second half despite being down to 10 men. It wasn't the result or performance that we wanted but that's not enough to tip us over the edge.
 
AltiUn said:
Not by begging the manager who underperformed all season to stay and getting viscous with anyone who said otherwise, and belatedly celebrating his contract extension in the summer, we sacked LvG for a much better season than the one we had last year after an FA Cup win.
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Are they creating a sticky situation?
 
Yes, this has been a problem for a while now. There is so much tribalism within our fanbase too, a certain section of fans are so arrogant with their self-righteousness, that they are more concerned by portraying themselves as morally superior to the rest, because "they support the manager/back the team/players" instead of others "lesser" and "foreign" fans. It is irrelevant to them if standards are down the toilet, they stubbornly sit on a take even if it's not logical and not something which improves the team as long as it is at the expense of being a "proper" red.

This has made any discussion on a player/manager on here and any other circle nigh on impossible.
 
Freak said:
I respect the match going fans because they pay good money to watch a game but they are far too passive and nice and are definitely part of the problem as to why our standards are so poor.

Contrast that to the top Spanish or Italian teams where their fans don’t take bullshit performance and let everyone know about it
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We're not a fan or member owned organisation like Madrid or Barca. Nobody has to listen to what we think, unlike those places. This idea that us fans are culpable because "fan standards are too low" is narcissistic rubbish. All we can do is boo when we lose, or cheer when we win - that's it.
 
Red_toad said:
Probably all the shitehouse YouTuber channels of alleged fans. They just love the state of the club as it gives them so many more clicks than if it’s all going well. No 1 would be Brent the ex copper Forest supporter, feck knows how he’s gotten so many followers who lap up his spew.
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Well, AFTV had massive numbers during their covid fiesta. Now, just a couple thousands because they are winning.
United Stand had 100K+ people during break yesterday.
Saeed got somehow 200K on his post match yesterday.
 
Ffs. This thread again.

Singing and supporting the team is what fans do.

We had people chasing the Glazers around the ground in 2005 and effigies of them at the Stretford End. They still bought the club and still ruined it.

As fans, we have little sway in major club decisions. The only thing people can do is sing their songs and cheer on the team they love.

If you think otherwise, what have YOU done? Were you at the Apollo or the Methodist Hall in 2005?

Did you march down Warwick Road in 2005? Did you partake in any of the protests during 04/05?

Did you turn up outside the ground on the heartbreaking night when the takeover was confirmed to at least offer some visual resistance/protest?

Did you get involved with all the groups in 2010 and do something more than wear a green and gold scarf? Were you at the protest before the Spurs game in October 2010?

Did you turn up at any of the protests that happened at reserve matches?

Were you outside Old Trafford or the Lowry Hotel in May 2021?

If you've sat passive for the best part of 20 years and waited for the things to get really bad before daring to offer an opinion behind a username, you have zero right to question anyone's support.

There has been plenty of opportunities for you to get involved in most of this stuff. Pre 2013, you probably didn't care enough about what was going on because the team was (mostly) winning still.

Rant over
 
MancunianAngels said:
Ffs. This thread again.

Singing and supporting the team is what fans do.

We had people chasing the Glazers around the ground in 2005 and effigies of them at the Stretford End. They still bought the club and still ruined it.

As fans, we have little sway in major club decisions. The only thing people can do is sing their songs and cheer on the team they love.

If you think otherwise, what have YOU done? Were you at the Apollo or the Methodist Hall in 2005?

Did you march down Warwick Road in 2005? Did you partake in any of the protests during 04/05?

Did you turn up outside the ground on the heartbreaking night when the takeover was confirmed to at least offer some visual resistance/protest?

Did you get involved with all the groups in 2010 and do something more than wear a green and gold scarf? Were you at the protest before the Spurs game in October 2010?

Were you outside Old Trafford or the Lowry Hotel in May 2021?

If you've sat passive for the best part of 20 years and waited for the things to get really bad before daring to offer an opinion behind a username, you have zero right to question anyone's support.

Rant over
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This. I think we should close the thread there to be honest.
 
MancunianAngels said:
Ffs. This thread again.

Singing and supporting the team is what fans do.

We had people chasing the Glazers around the ground in 2005 and effigies of them at the Stretford End. They still bought the club and still ruined it.

As fans, we have little sway in major club decisions. The only thing people can do is sing their songs and cheer on the team they love.

If you think otherwise, what have YOU done? Were you at the Apollo or the Methodist Hall in 2005?

Did you march down Warwick Road in 2005? Did you partake in any of the protests during 04/05?

Did you turn up outside the ground on the heartbreaking night when the takeover was confirmed to at least offer some visual resistance/protest?

Did you get involved with all the groups in 2010 and do something more than wear a green and gold scarf? Were you at the protest before the Spurs game in October 2010?

Did you turn up at any of the protests that happened at reserve matches?

Were you outside Old Trafford or the Lowry Hotel in May 2021?

If you've sat passive for the best part of 20 years and waited for the things to get really bad before daring to offer an opinion behind a username, you have zero right to question anyone's support.

There has been plenty of opportunities for you to get involved in most of this stuff. Pre 2013, you probably didn't care enough about what was going on because the team was (mostly) winning still.

Rant over
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Just stood up and applauded on the train.
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
Bore off. We're not one of those fanbases who boo every time we don't get what we want. Some of those matchgoing fans who were there yesterday were also there during the 70s and 80s when we were shit but still played attacking football, and we rarely booed back then, so we aren't going to start relentlessly booing now just because some online fans think that we're letting the players/manager off the hook.

Yesterday we were clapping to show our support for the desire to score and continue to create attacks in the second half despite being down to 10 men. It wasn't the result or performance that we wanted but that's not enough to tip us over the edge.
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'Bore off'- Gabriel Djemba-Bebe's original quote of the season.

Where did i say that the fans should boo? Fair enough for taking personal offense if you are one of the ones I have criticised.
My point was not to have a go at the match-going fans because they aren't all in one mind. Yet your subsequent comments to close down the thread appear to appeal to the opposite.

Give yourself a clap.
 
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