Antony getting pocketed by Dan fecking Burn was just the icing on the cake.
Are we a one man team? (And that man is Casemiro)
- Thread starter The Corinthian
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Because we're such a transition based team, we can't live without a monstrous interception and tackling midfielder like Casemiro.
I'm sure I heard a little joke that the players say Casemiro likes losing the ball so he can win it back - our team as a whole lose the ball so easily so it's pivotal to have a guy like him.
When (or honestly IF ) we become a side who are a lot better at controlling possession and holding sustained plays of the football, we wouldn't look as awful in his absence.
I'm sure I heard a little joke that the players say Casemiro likes losing the ball so he can win it back - our team as a whole lose the ball so easily so it's pivotal to have a guy like him.
When (or honestly IF ) we become a side who are a lot better at controlling possession and holding sustained plays of the football, we wouldn't look as awful in his absence.
Let’s be honest, Ten Hag has got it massively wrong in the midfield without him. Ole played Fred and McTominay in a pivot and at least it gave some form of protection to the back four because they were holding their position. Bruno playing deeper recently has been a disaster and negatively impacted on our attack, as well as leaving massive holes when he presses.
We were never going to be able to replace Casemiro like for like, but without anyone else capable of playing that position, we really should have compensated with a change of system (back five or three in midfield).
We were never going to be able to replace Casemiro like for like, but without anyone else capable of playing that position, we really should have compensated with a change of system (back five or three in midfield).
He played Bruno there not because of missing Casemiro, but also Eriksen. ETH plays with 2 playmakers, not two sitting deep without control in the mid at all.
We didn’t seem to struggle without Eriksen initially, and he didn’t try Bruno deeper until the Southampton game. Playing him there without Casemiro is suicide.
He probably needs to adapt his ideals given the profile of players we have available in midfield currently, unless you think what we’ve been doing without Casemiro is working?
Yeah, but Bruno Fernandes is not particularly good at build up from deep or retaining the ball. By playing his best attacking midfielder deep to try and mitigate the loss of build up ability he not only lessens the creative bite we have up top, we also have a player who doesn't look natural playing deep in midfield.
It makes sense in theory, it just quite clearly never works in practice.
Sevilla 1st leg
Casemiro is vital for us because he gives the midfield shape and stability. On top of that, without Eriksen, he is the only one who can take the ball from the defence and start be a playmaker for us.
The whole team suffers when he doesn’t play because there is no control or quality in the middle like against Newcastle or Fulham.
That’s why buying a deep lying midfielder who can take the ball off the defence in the summer is important.
The whole team suffers when he doesn’t play because there is no control or quality in the middle like against Newcastle or Fulham.
That’s why buying a deep lying midfielder who can take the ball off the defence in the summer is important.
Thanks - oh boy! That sending off has cost us a lot
Without Casemiro we are useless. Lucky to get over Fulham and Newcasle ran the midfield. Ten Hag needs to show his managerial skills in next few games until we have Casemiro and Eriksen back. He has to have a plan for midfield where we are losing out all the time and forwards are being starved of service.
We are a one man team and to me it looks very shady that he has been given two soft dismissals right after we started threatening City. Particularly after the Barca allegations, I have lost trust in PL that they won't be susceptible to Pep's shennigans.
I hope this is meant to be a joke.
Not sure we are a one man team. If Casemiro played every single game and Rashford was missing....we'd be better in midfield for sure but we'd have nobody to score the goals. Can't really have one without the other.
He is massively important though as is Eriksen.
He is massively important though as is Eriksen.
Casemiro is the most influential player for certain.
But you can't call us a one man team with Rashy having his best ever season for us, and Varane & Martinez forming a quality partnership.
But you can't call us a one man team with Rashy having his best ever season for us, and Varane & Martinez forming a quality partnership.
Not at all, the whole Barca episode has shaken up my confidence in footballing structures. Yes, Spanish football is supposed to be more corrupt, but I never expected it to be this brazen. Anyways, City is charged with cheating in some aspects, what is to say they aren't cheating in others.
Said it the other day this all started from him missing that Arsenal game. IF only we could have built on that derby win
I can't think of a player who we've looked so much worse without. Even our very best players could be managed without for spells. We look like the end of Rangnick reign when casemiro is out. Its a frightening drop off consider he isn't exactly 25
So you think Casemiro being sent off twice, neither of which were particularly controversial is down to City paying off refs?
Ok mate.
Neither of which were particularly controversial?! Strongly disagree on that with you. Neither was a red card under current standards adopted by referees in the country.
As to whether it was influenced by city, I am saying it's a possibility given the circumstances elsewhere involving the same management under Barca
No, but we are an incredibly shallow team at this point. If we lost Rashford for any period of time, we would be screwed as well.
I am afraid Case will play with a little less aggression when he comes back, in the light of the 2 red cards he got recently. Also I guess he will be targeted by the opposition all the time.
He needs to stay as composed as ever.
He needs to stay as composed as ever.
In that case, we would still have some more than decent options in Martial, Sancho, Antony, Garnacho, Pellistri, Bruno. No one is killing it at the moment but it is just not that bad.
Casemiro is the only midfielder we have that have any clue how to play a bit deeper and be in the right positions more often than not, and make the right passes more often than not.
Scott, Fred and Marcel all feels like a throw of the dice whenever they play there.
When we have our proper midfield then our goals come from multiple sources. It's only when we don't that our goals dry up.
No. Remove Martinez and we'd look like shit, too. Same as Rashford. Remove him and we have no goalscorers. We have multiple important players. The backup players are nowhere near good enough.
This is why we need to bring in a backup who has the positional sense and able to take ball off the back four too
I think we are, at the very least, a four-man team: Casemiro, Martinez, Bruno and Rashford.
Varane too.
He’s the gel and also creative spark (people don’t realise). In our last match Vs Brentford it was the best we’ve played without him. We played well by keeping possession and passing the ball around. But we lacked that quick incision from deep or the middle of the park, the spark that quickly transitions nothing into something. That’s what Casemiro does in addition to his general CDM play.
He is our most important player, but then if Rashford gets injured/suspended for 4-5 matches we’ll probably not score as much even with Casemiro playing. Or if Varane gets injured the defence suffers.
So we’re not really a one man team. I’d say we’d feel it in different ways and to various extent if the following missed 3 plus matches:
Casemiro
Rashford
Varane
De Gea
He is our most important player, but then if Rashford gets injured/suspended for 4-5 matches we’ll probably not score as much even with Casemiro playing. Or if Varane gets injured the defence suffers.
So we’re not really a one man team. I’d say we’d feel it in different ways and to various extent if the following missed 3 plus matches:
Casemiro
Rashford
Varane
De Gea
We are not a one-man team per se, but rather, we are a team when one man in particular is in it. And that man is Casemiro.
When we had casemiro and Erikson we scored goals from a lot more players.
Martinez is true though, but again not the difference casemiro makes.
This is true, add Bruno to the list, the team lacks drive without him.
We have a handful of player we simply can't replace in the lineup.
If we do, we are terrible.
This is why we still need to strengthen the squad.
Martinez is great but I think Shaw does a good enough job in his position. Not as good with the long passes, but not a huge step down in a match to match basis. We might only notice the difference against top opposition.
His aggressiveness can be a really nice addition though, sometimes we miss it.
100%; but with Shaw in his role I don’t think it’s as noticeable of a miss when we’re playing 90% of teams, of course we’re better off with him. Whereas without Casemiro you notice it even if we’re playing Notts Forest
Thankfully he is coming back next week. Desperately need him, so midfield can have shape and intent.
No.
We've had several good performances without him. Casemiro had a slow start but once he found his form he was very impressive.
Apart from the first two games of the season, away matches at City, Arsenal, Liverpool and Newcastle, and an awful performance at Villa, we've generally looked a decent team. Casemiro missed quite a few of our poor performances but started against Villa away and Liverpool away, while his sub appearance didn't prevent City scoring more after he came on in the 3-6 defeat.
We've had several good performances without him. Casemiro had a slow start but once he found his form he was very impressive.
Apart from the first two games of the season, away matches at City, Arsenal, Liverpool and Newcastle, and an awful performance at Villa, we've generally looked a decent team. Casemiro missed quite a few of our poor performances but started against Villa away and Liverpool away, while his sub appearance didn't prevent City scoring more after he came on in the 3-6 defeat.
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Decent showings at home but away he has been a monumental miss that's for sure
He plays a massive part but results wise we've hardly felt him. Genuinely think that his suspensions have only had an impact in us dropping 2 points so far - the 2 vs Southampton where he got the red early. Other than that, I think we would have lost regardless vs arsenal and Newcastle, Leeds at home was the other but we were in the middle of a great run and casemiro being fresh for the cup games arguably helped us out more anyway.
We will see how we do without Rashford. Could prove that his attacking runs are the real 1 man team, but if Martial can stay fit for this period then I think we'll be ok.
We will see how we do without Rashford. Could prove that his attacking runs are the real 1 man team, but if Martial can stay fit for this period then I think we'll be ok.
I like to crunch numbers and I've been keeping track of our results this season. Whilst sample sizes aren't massive and there are variances in fixture difficulty, let's have a look at the difference Casemiro makes to our results.
With Casemiro starting:
An even more stark way of visualising this is with expected goal difference.
With Casemiro:
9 comfortable games, 3 relatively comfortable ones, 2 close ones and 1 battering.
Without Casemiro:
3 comfortable games, 4 relatively comfortable ones, five close ones and 3 batterings.
With Casemiro playing we have only "lost" on expected goal difference once, whereas our games without him are all tight affairs, except when we give someone a hiding: Everton (H), Leicester (H) and Leeds (H), or are on the receiving end of one: (City (A), Arsenal (A) and Newcastle (A), with both of the latter scenarios being equally likely.
On this basis, we must sign a competent, like-for-like backup to Casemiro. Given his age, someone younger, playing in a lower tier league will be a better fit from a squad harmony perspective and leave more in the tank for other positions like striker where we may need to splash out more.
They would also hit their prime at the point where you would expect Casemiro to start declining or at least need his minutes managing. A Premier League "proven" player, like Rice or Palhinha will not be happy with this role and will cost way too much.
Signing this player will make McTominay surplus to requirements as he's only really been used as a Casemiro backup this season.
Selling him will probably offset most if not all of the fee for either Maxence Caqueret or Manuel Ugarte. Both are high volume tacklers and press resistant, so would be excellent against the bigger teams. Ugarte is more of a pure DM where Caqueret is better at chance creation from open play passing. Caqueret could play with or instead of Casemiro, whilst Ugarte would be more of a like-for-like player. Either way a Casemiro backup is imperative.
With Casemiro starting:
- Played 15
- W10 D3 L2
- G23 GA16
- 66.67% win ratio
- 2.2 points per game - 83.6 points over a 38 game season
- Played 15
- W8 D2 L5
- G23 GA21
- 53.33% win ratio
- 1.73 points per game - 65.86 points over a 38 game season
An even more stark way of visualising this is with expected goal difference.
With Casemiro:
9 comfortable games, 3 relatively comfortable ones, 2 close ones and 1 battering.
Without Casemiro:
3 comfortable games, 4 relatively comfortable ones, five close ones and 3 batterings.
With Casemiro playing we have only "lost" on expected goal difference once, whereas our games without him are all tight affairs, except when we give someone a hiding: Everton (H), Leicester (H) and Leeds (H), or are on the receiving end of one: (City (A), Arsenal (A) and Newcastle (A), with both of the latter scenarios being equally likely.
On this basis, we must sign a competent, like-for-like backup to Casemiro. Given his age, someone younger, playing in a lower tier league will be a better fit from a squad harmony perspective and leave more in the tank for other positions like striker where we may need to splash out more.
They would also hit their prime at the point where you would expect Casemiro to start declining or at least need his minutes managing. A Premier League "proven" player, like Rice or Palhinha will not be happy with this role and will cost way too much.
Signing this player will make McTominay surplus to requirements as he's only really been used as a Casemiro backup this season.
Selling him will probably offset most if not all of the fee for either Maxence Caqueret or Manuel Ugarte. Both are high volume tacklers and press resistant, so would be excellent against the bigger teams. Ugarte is more of a pure DM where Caqueret is better at chance creation from open play passing. Caqueret could play with or instead of Casemiro, whilst Ugarte would be more of a like-for-like player. Either way a Casemiro backup is imperative.
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I agree. Maybe not AS important as you hope casemiro will still give plenty but we can't be in a position where a casemiro injury basically ends the chance of winning a big competition. Or perhaps not a replacement but a midfielder that allows us to play a different way without him