The next manager might have different ideas and might find the squad very average and uncompetitive. Conte, for example, is willing to take our "deadwoods" and he is far more proven than Ole, let alone the fans on here who think unproven youngsters are already better than top professionals. The fact that the squad will be young is not a merit in itself. The young players must be good enough to compete for big trophies and this is far from guaranteed now.
Appointing Solskjaer was a mistake
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The next manager might have different ideas and might find the squad very average and uncompetitive. Conte, for example, is willing to take our "deadwoods" and he is far more proven than Ole, let alone the fans on here who think unproven youngsters are already better than top professionals. The fact that the squad will be young is not a merit in itself. The young players must be good enough to compete for big trophies and this is far from guaranteed now.
Hasn't that been the problem recently, just go for the big name without thought to how they work and the structure of their squads? I agree about the quality of the squad, if you are going to go younger then they have to be the best out there with a couple of older experienced heads . To be honest us going after Sean Longstaff raised a bit of a red flag for me. Yes you want a British influence but there are some very good players abroad who if we had a good negotiator we could buy. We should not neglect quality just so we can go younger.
I honestly feel for the upcoming manager next summer. Ole and Woodward fecked up the entire squad and there is still Pogba who will definitely force his way out next market. De Gea may also end up leaving for free. The squad will need at least 250-300m pumped into it or something, and with how "great" Woody is in the market I won't want to be in this next manager's shoes tbh.
The current Italian League is much less competitive atm compared to the EPL. I actually think the current EPL is the strongest it has ever been compared to the other big European leagues. CL semis had 3/4 English clubs, EL won by an English club and our "midtable teams" have way more resources compared to the smaller teams in Spain, Italy, France etc
Take Darmian for example. It was clear as day he was nowhere near good enough for the PL, yet i can wager a lot on him becoming a regular in Serie A. If Conte was still in Chelsea there is no way he would buy the same payers
Darmian would have been good enough for bottom half teams in the PL. He isn't going to Juventus and Napoli, not even Inter.
By Christmas we will be near the bottom. We have a tactically inept manager who has also been left with a threadbare squad with real lack of quality. Some of his decisions are on him, but at the same time when Rashford is crap and Martial is injured there is no one to turn to.
1 clean sheet in 19 games.
Good post. I wouldn’t say we should only go with world class by definition but rather a proven manager with a clear game plan that was able to execute it at past clubs.
I’d say Klopp was world class depending on your definition as he won BL twice with Dortmund - not the best team in the country - and reached CL final. That alone definitely puts him in the world class bracket.
I’d agree that LvG shouldn’t be considered world class as at the time he was appointed he wasn’t. Jose definitely was and probably was closest to that but he was off his better days and unlike managers like Klopp he wasn’t at his heyday.
As for Fergie - he was one of the best young managers at the time. I’d say for his feats he was pretty much around Klopp level. His European success coupled with domestic league titles with a club that wasn’t dominant made him one of the best candidates for the job.
Personally I’d go with a proven manager, might even not be world class as we might not be able to attract one. But definitely had to be proven so that he can handle the stress and requirements of a big rebuilding job he will have on his hands.
I love how overnight everyone is talking about Ole in the ‘past tense’ and about our ‘next mansger’ Like they have already been anointed.
Win the next 2 games and it will change again. At least can we wait until he actually gets fired?
Win the next 2 games and it will change again. At least can we wait until he actually gets fired?
When it comes to what determines success on the pitch it's something like this:
Squad>Manager>Boss>Owner
We have tried replacing the manager many times, who in turn try to change the squad. It's not working.
Enforcing change will flip that around:
Owner>Boss>Manager>Squad
Problem is, it's much easier to just blame the manager or the players. And that's like trying to remove a wedged in jengo block. It just keeps on crashing down.
Squad>Manager>Boss>Owner
We have tried replacing the manager many times, who in turn try to change the squad. It's not working.
Enforcing change will flip that around:
Owner>Boss>Manager>Squad
Problem is, it's much easier to just blame the manager or the players. And that's like trying to remove a wedged in jengo block. It just keeps on crashing down.
You think the glazers are that ambitious? Amazing if you believe that.
Think it’s bad now, just wait until the BBC decides its time for Ole to be sacked and it becomes their mission to fulfill their prediction.
Paranoid much? Ole's results will decide his future, not the BBC or the (they have to give him the job) media, apparently Ole is happy with his squad, so the results are on him.
I like Ole comes across a great guy but at this time it need someone with a Roy Keane attitude who take no nonsense.
Im not at the training ground or in the changing room but Ole seems a soft touch to me.
Im not at the training ground or in the changing room but Ole seems a soft touch to me.
Sean Longstaff raised a flag for me because he's not that good. The fact we were targeting him simply because he's young and British, and might 'get the club' was so ridiculously nonsensical that I'm glad the transfer fell through. Ndombele was not too far off the same price-tag, and he's clearly a very good player. Sean fecking Longstaff had played 9 games in the league for Newcaslte and looked 'good' in doing so. That shouldn't be what a big club is targeting. It makes me think that the board/Woodward know that we are no longer a proper draw for top talent so they're re-assigning their focus on guys that 'would be happy to be here' as an upgrade on their current team. Now, dont get me wrong, the three signings we made this summer all fit that bill and I was delighted with all three - and all three seem to be good. But that cannot be your only policy in signing players. Or else, you resign yourself to midtable.
My prediction is we enter the busy Christmas period around 10th. From there it will be downhill because we don't have the depth to keep plodding along, and some of our first teamers are injury prone as are our squad players. Here's a thought - imagine something bad happens to Maguire. Sidelining him for a few months. And we go ahead with the error-prone Lindelöf paired with someone like Phil Jones.
Bottom half of the table is very realistic in that situation. VERY realistic.
Listening to Rio on the radio yesterday, he said something that is so obvious yet I'd never heard it said before.
' Too many of the current squad ', he said, ' seem to think that they're doing United a favour by playing for them. They should be eternally grateful that they play for United. It should never be the other way round '
OGS doesn't fill me with confidence, and given the squad he now has - a mixture of the useless, the braindead, the mercenaries, the want-aways, the never-will-be-good-enoughs and just an odd good 'un - he'll need to be Houdini to escape the sack before the end of this season.
' Too many of the current squad ', he said, ' seem to think that they're doing United a favour by playing for them. They should be eternally grateful that they play for United. It should never be the other way round '
OGS doesn't fill me with confidence, and given the squad he now has - a mixture of the useless, the braindead, the mercenaries, the want-aways, the never-will-be-good-enoughs and just an odd good 'un - he'll need to be Houdini to escape the sack before the end of this season.
Our fanbase is actually outrageous. People preach the rebuild and give people time but then a slow start and it's the end of the world.
Look we've gutted the squad completely and are thin on the ground for quality but we've shifted allot of the players people didn't want at the club. It's going to take time to get this right.
Look we've gutted the squad completely and are thin on the ground for quality but we've shifted allot of the players people didn't want at the club. It's going to take time to get this right.
Why should it take time though? Atletico completed their rebuild in one summer. They brought in 9 players and shipped out 11, they are currently on top of the pile in La Liga. Their income is half of what the Glazers have been pocketing every season.
Why are we making excuses for an incompetent board and an inept manager? Maybe 'shifting a lot of players people didn't want' is partly the reason the results have been poor. None of our current strikers have ever scored 12 PL goals - why are we relying on them to get us goals? It's unfair to put that much expectations on Rashford/Martial only for the fans/media to criticise them when they don't meet the unachievable standards.
It shouldn't take time for a club of United's size and stature to complete a rebuilding process. Are we building the Egyptian Pyramid? This is just a mere excuse for Ole.The rebuilding we all talk about is to compete with City and Liverpool, not to drop points against bottom fodders like Southampton and Palace. If the current manager cannot beat a 10-man bottom team convincingly, why are we so sure he will complete the process even if he's given 5 years?
I see one of the favoured alternatives on here, Zidane is still is struggling for results at Real. More evidence there's no sure thing elsewhere.
What I've been saying all along.
This is a great point. I remember back around 2010 or 2011 we would all make fun of Arsenal and their "five year plans" which never led anywhere. Unfortunately now we're doing the same thing.
Paranoid to expect the BBC to do what they’ve done annually since SAF retired? Naw, mate, that’s called observation.
Oh, I remember that period. The "youth policy' move effectively demoted Arsenal from title-contenders to also-rans. After a while, Wenger managed to convince Arsenal fans that finishing 4th is as good as winning the PL title. It was the darkest era of their history in modern times. They went 9 seasons without lifting a trophy and that happened with a man that possessed a wealth of experience.
Their squad downgraded from a talented/experienced side to a team of kids(Walcott, Gnabry, Jenkinson, Oxdale-Chamberlain, Ramsey, Szczesny and Wilshere) that never got near winning the league title. Our fans aren't aware that what befell Arsenal is coming for us. Whenever any board of a football club suddenly turns towards the youth for rebuilding, it's because they aren't interested in investing or they aren't interested in winning the big trophies.
If you wasn’t a United fan and was looking at this from the outside. Would you think it’s acceptable what we are doing? Taken in to context we are the largest club probably in world football and just broke the transfer record again.... for a defender.
You're right. We should have bought two defenders.
And a midfielder. And a striker. And a right winger.
Honestly in my opinion given a choice of a Maguire or two class midfield players I would always chose the two midfield players. This is what we need now more than a CB.
I do not understand Rio. This is a profession and profession players. No one now plays for Manchester United because it is Manchester United. They play for the money. It is the same with all clubs.
Rio does not understand it because he was always winning under the best manager with the best players as his team mates. Do you think the current lot are stupid? Of course not. They know that this squad and this manager is not going to win anything. Players may come to play for SAF. Players have come to play for Jose. Players do not come to play for Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.
I do not understand Rio. This is a profession and profession players. No one now plays for Manchester United because it is Manchester United. They play for the money. It is the same with all clubs.
Rio does not understand it because he was always winning under the best manager with the best players as his team mates. Do you think the current lot are stupid? Of course not. They know that this squad and this manager is not going to win anything. Players may come to play for SAF. Players have come to play for Jose. Players do not come to play for Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.
Midfield is the engine in a car. You cant win shit without a proper midfield.
Saf always says build from the back, but people forgot he got scholes carrick giggs keane butt all those years he can forget about midfield
Saf always says build from the back, but people forgot he got scholes carrick giggs keane butt all those years he can forget about midfield
We have the second highest net spend in the PL and that shows money for signings has not been the problem but it´s how we have invested that in players that has put us in this position that OGS is starting fix. None of the 7 he has let go where good enough and there are at least other 7 players from the squad that need to go in the next windows.
Now Darmian has gone and how is it not a sign of being ruthless in telling Smalling he has no future here? It´s no as OGS can wave a magic wand and order other teams to buy Smalling.
And what do you think it would take to get the right players in? 100? 200? 300 million more? Or would you be happy just to sign anyone? And fact of the matter is, you have no idea what clubs or players the club have been talking to. The three players they did buy have been fantastic. Imagine keeping that track record for future signings.
This all day long! These seem to have been the most astute signings we've made for ages. Young, good players and definately with the correct mentality. 3 more of these for Midfield, Right side and forward please.
I can’t understand the moaners I really can’t. I think it’s obvious he’s doing a better job than anyone we have had post Fergie. These are the things he’s better at than the last set of so called “top” Managers -
Better with the Media.
Better relationship with players
Better football played (despite the results)
Better at signing players (all three, so far, are a success. Some could say they are now our best players).
better at getting rid of players that are not good enough (Sanchez, Rom, Darmian, Smalling, Fellaini)
better at giving our youth an opportunity.
Is he perfect? No. Tactically he has things to learn but I am banking on him being smart enough to learn them. He has a squad that isn’t that competitive and has plenty of issues in midfield and attack but from what I’ve seen so far, he knows what needs to be done. He’s never going to please everyone and some of the things he does in game are to me quite understandable. People asking for him to make changes earlier, we’ll if you look at our bench, there’s not much there to bloody change, is there?! I think some people are expecting 17yr old Greenwood to be like Lionel Messi or something....
this will take time and we NEED to give it to him because we have tried everything else.
Better with the Media.
Better relationship with players
Better football played (despite the results)
Better at signing players (all three, so far, are a success. Some could say they are now our best players).
better at getting rid of players that are not good enough (Sanchez, Rom, Darmian, Smalling, Fellaini)
better at giving our youth an opportunity.
Is he perfect? No. Tactically he has things to learn but I am banking on him being smart enough to learn them. He has a squad that isn’t that competitive and has plenty of issues in midfield and attack but from what I’ve seen so far, he knows what needs to be done. He’s never going to please everyone and some of the things he does in game are to me quite understandable. People asking for him to make changes earlier, we’ll if you look at our bench, there’s not much there to bloody change, is there?! I think some people are expecting 17yr old Greenwood to be like Lionel Messi or something....
this will take time and we NEED to give it to him because we have tried everything else.
What world do you live in where Solskjaer only getting 3 wins and 4 draws in 16 is better than finishing second under Mourinho?
Better football played? Questionable. We struggle to create chances. I think we look very similar to what we did under Van Gaal: loads of passing and no creativity.
Playing youth? Greenwood has got about 20 minutes so far, which is due to us having no depth. Other than that, we have seen nobody (Gomes, in particular). McTominay was already in the team when he joined.
I wouldn't say there is a lot of praise to be given about getting rid of all your attacking and midfield depth without replacing them. On top of that, the midfielders were lost with the likelihood that Pogba will be gone next season; he has us in a situation where we will need to sign three midfielders next transfer window. This will likely prevent us from signing a right-winger again.
Our attack is a mess: no established strikers; relying on Martial and Rashford, who have only managed to reach double figures once in the league (last season: 10 goals each); no right-winger.
Supposedly, he did not go for a right-winger as he is waiting on Sancho, which is a joke if true. To be in with a chance of signing him we need to get Champion's League, which is far from likely with the squad we have. Even we did get it, it will only be a slim chance of getting him.
His tactics are pretty much non-existent. Run about and hopefully win the ball back with barely any clue of what to do with it in attack. His late substitutions are ridiculous also.
OGS took over a dreadful squad made by signings from Mourinho,Van Gaal and Moyes. He bought well this summer and has cleared out 7 players that had no future here execpt Herrera but he wanted a huge salary deal. We are still in need of getting rid of 7 to 8 players in Matic,Mata,Young,Rojo,Jones,Fred,Lingard,Bailly hardly likely to be a big part of United future teams. The sheer size of the rebuild is huge and there is no way getting around that. Have a look at the squad picture on Man Utd website and then find another club with as many homegrown youngsters as part of their squad. Regarding our attack being a mess then I suppose getting rid of Lukaku and Sanchez on freeing up funds to bring in a top striker in the coming windows must help us because neither of those players were going to work for us. Greenwood in my estimate is a tremendous talent, Martial had 2 goals and 1 assist in his first 3 games before getting injured, Rashford has the same(2goals+1 assist) and James has 3 goals as a winger in 4 games. Hardly a mess, is it? Room for improvement, yes I agree with you there as we are needing a striker and right winger. If Sancho is his target and can be bought at a later stage I would understand waiting for him. There are not many wingers with his stats. He had 12 goals and 14 assists last season and has 2 goals and 3 assists in 3 games this season. Him and a double your wages contract offer to Kane next summer? Plus 2 midfielders and things would start to look a whole lot different.
Results aren't good at the moment and We've on a bad streak overall since the PSG game. But to be fair, Ole probably has it the toughest out of all managers post Fergie. He has a young squad, have a lot of deadwoods to get rid, players prices are crazy now after Neymar and Pogba inflations, owners becoming more reluctant to spend money after Van Gaal and Jose's failure, having to take over a team that's broken.
He still needs to improve his tactical choices mind you.
He still needs to improve his tactical choices mind you.
Hopefully he can at least make it until the end of the season. Have a feeling Pochettino will be available by then.
Sadly this is the way of the times at the moment (Hard to watch)
The result's haven't been great not creating enough chances I think Rashford is overated & not sure Martial can be the main CF
Good to see the youth getting a chance but they need longer cameo's than 10mins to attempt to make a impact
James has been a revelation since his debut once his decision making improves he will get better, There is bound to be more gems in the Championship that can step of a level.
I'd shift Pogba (Lacklustre) in everything he does, want's to move
Shift De Gea or drop him for a few weeks, Romero is a good Number 2 & Henderson looks to be improving week in week out
The result's haven't been great not creating enough chances I think Rashford is overated & not sure Martial can be the main CF
Good to see the youth getting a chance but they need longer cameo's than 10mins to attempt to make a impact
James has been a revelation since his debut once his decision making improves he will get better, There is bound to be more gems in the Championship that can step of a level.
I'd shift Pogba (Lacklustre) in everything he does, want's to move
Shift De Gea or drop him for a few weeks, Romero is a good Number 2 & Henderson looks to be improving week in week out
While I agree with you but I also feel that their parsimonious character has finally caught up with us. They are spending more in the past couple of years because they refused to do that after the sale of Ronaldo and the ensuing years. We are playing catch up and that is why we are in the pit we are now. If we had bought properly during the time City bought Aguero, Silva and Yaya Toure, we would have won more trophies and would have also positioned ourselves to be more attractive to elite talents.
Extremely pessimistic, however, you're probably right. It's a damn shame too, really want Ole to be the first PL winner post SAF
.Anyone can get rid of players. But this need to be a sensible approach. Getting rid of your midfield without replacing them is the height of idiocy. Without CL and without good players, other or better players would not come to United. Can anyone realistically tell me why should any world class player come to United now? They do not have CL, they are not going to win anything and they do not have a famous or world class manager either.
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