Antony | Here we go! €100mill, contract until June 2027, option 'til 2028.

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Flexdegea said:
Feels like we a back a month to this topic, even when we just bought Casmerio, macheia and Erikson, and only bought Martinez who he's worked with properly
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Did you miss the fact that United wasted 3 months chasing De Jong? Martinez, De Jong, Antony, don't you think there's a pattern here?

marcus agrippa said:
I know that about La Liga, and that was precisely my point about release clauses: they serve multiple purposes.
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They don't though, they only serve one purpose : giving the player a way out if a certain price is reached. It can sometimes be done easily if it's low (so you can go in any club you want) or the clubs can negociate and raise the amount so only a handful of club (or none in spain when it's 1 billion) can pay it but I really don't see how they surve multiple purposes.
 
Alemar said:
Why is Ajax keeping silence after all this nuclear info?
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What do you want them to say? "We turned down €90M because Man Utd are negotiating with themselves and keep offering us more and more money without us needing to ask and we wanted to see how far we could push it"
 
Ajax will sell.

Next offer they'll accept.

That interview was the nail in the coffin. Can't see any self respectable club keep a player after that and despite many posters on here claiming the contrary, Ajax are a respectable club.
 
gaffs said:
Couldn't agree more.

Plus, Rafinha is Premier League proven.
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Player improvement, performance and quality is not linear though.

Raphinha is 25, Antony is 22. They both have 9 Brazil caps and that is with Raphinha playing in a higher level league and being 3 years older. Antony being 3 years younger will clearly exceed the level of Raphinha, which is not that high by the way.

We will be paying for his potential and what ETH believes he can get out of Antony in the future. Transfers are all about risk and it is never certain that a player will be a success, but that doesn't mean the risk should never be taken.
 
africanspur said:
He'd be minded to look at the examples of the players I listed above (all of whom either eventually got their moves or became happy enough and got bumper new contracts) vs say.....Berahino, who doubled down and utterly destroyed his career.

Nobody outside the fans of the 7-8 super clubs has ever espoused this view like I've said and a 19 year old South American trying to make their big break in Europe is not going to turn their noses up at a club that develops young players, plays (well) in the CL consistently, wins trophies, has one of the greatest histories on the continent and pays them much more than any club in South America will. Unless of course like I said they're a Neymar/ Vicinius level talent who's being chased straight away by Real/Barca.

Because the most realistic alternative for these players if they turn that move down is that they fade into obscurity and their careers never go anywhere, which is what will happen with the majority of these teens.

At least it can go nowhere while they get paid lots of money if they go to Ajax.
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Yeah but they have a lot of options these days. Ajax don’t have a sacred right to these players and if they treat the best ones like this, they won’t get the best ones any more.
 
RobinLFC said:
I only see one party crying right now though. And Ajax didn't sign a 5-year contract two years ago then now came out to say "it was a 2-year project" either.

Would you feel any sympathy for Ajax if it was the other way around and they wanted to cut him off straight away right now?
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Please read my comment. The 5 year contract was mutually beneficial. Ajax would not have agreed to a two year deal; 5 years protects their asset.

Perhaps you’re going to claim it’s immoral and/or unprecedented for a footballer to depart before their contract has run its course?

To your latter question: no, I wouldn’t feel sympathy for Ajax. What is your point? Was that supposed to be a ‘gotcha’ moment?
 
the_cliff said:
Ajax will sell.

Next offer they'll accept.

That interview was the nail in the coffin. Can't see any self respectable club keep a player after that and despite many posters on here claiming the contrary, Ajax are a respectable club.
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People said this 3 bids ago
 
For context Ajax's total revenue for 2020-21 season was 125M euros, they are rejecting an absolutely insane amount here.
 
He is probably a better player than Rapinha. After the world cup I expect him to be well over 100 million. He also wants to join, how often does this happen? We need him and we can pay him
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
Player improvement, performance and quality is not linear though.

Raphinha is 25, Antony is 22. They both have 9 Brazil caps and that is with Raphinha playing in a higher level league and being 3 years older. Antony being 3 years younger will clearly exceed the level of Raphinha, which is not that high by the way.

We will be paying for his potential and what ETH believes he can get out of Antony in the future. Transfers are all about risk and it is never certain that a player will be a success, but that doesn't mean the risk should never be taken.
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That's a pretty meaningless argument. in his 9 caps, Raphinha started 7 times. In his 9 caps, Antony started only twice and it was because Raphinha had Covid. As far as we know, Raphinha will be the starter for the world cup, not Antony.

And you might have the feeling Antony will clearly exceed Raphinha's level but I don't. He could but I would certainly not bet 100M he will.
 
the_cliff said:
Ajax will sell.

Next offer they'll accept.

That interview was the nail in the coffin. Can't see any self respectable club keep a player after that and despite many posters on here claiming the contrary, Ajax are a respectable club.
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Who knows. This interview paints United in the worst light for me. Ajax have been relatively firm in their price so many months. Yet we stopped negotiations after the low ball offer and are coming back with two weeks to go because of panic from the opening games. It's absurd.

Still, I can see Ajax relenting because they are run much better than the parasites do with United.
 
only mufc can put in a 90m+ bid for a player on strike and get it rejected. And now after the player has spat in the face of said club in a public interview.....we are going to have to bid even more, likely go over 100m to get this done :lol:

Banter FC
 
marcus agrippa said:
I know that about La Liga, and that was precisely my point about release clauses: they serve multiple purposes.

Neither you nor I have any idea why Haaland's agents inserted that clause into his Man City contract, but it is telling that it has a fairly unattainable amount for most clubs not Real Madrid, Barcelona or the oil clubs. This is in stark contrast to the amount specified in his Dortmund contract. I mean, by your logic, one might expect the specified amount to be around the same amount, not over double it. He essentially took the decision away from Dortmund, and it's very difficult to imagine otherwise. Perhaps Antony should have done the same, but my argument was that he was an unknown player, unlike Haaland, and so probably didn't have a strong enough negotiating position.

And that brings me to my last point: the Antony situation escalated because he feels that the club have reneged on a promise. This is a United forum, but it took an Ajax fan (admittedly also a United fan) to write:



So what I'm saying is, an easy way to do this going forward for other players is to hard-code a predetermined price into the contract as per Haaland's agents, and take the decision away from the club.

I've no comment on the structure of the clause other than to note Haaland was a Raiola player, and Raiola was notorious of agitating for his clients to move every so often so he could pocket the agents fees. Either way, the asking fee is still substantial.
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What do you mean? Why would any player and agent insert a release clause if it's not legally expected? Because they want to smooth the wheels of a potential transfer later on if it's what they want.

Of course the release clause is now higher too. He is negotiating with a more powerful club and is himself far more established in his career.

As per Haaland's easily accessible fee (though I agree of course far more so than the Man city one), only 16 clubs have ever paid that amount for a player. 1 is a Chinese club, 1 Newcastle this summer and 1 Spurs with N'Dombele, by far our record transfer.

Haaland was only ever likely to move to one of thr truly powerful premier league big 6 (ie not thr north londok clubs), PSG, Real, Barca, Bayern. His list of he moves from Man City in 3 years for 150 million doesn't look all that different in fairness.....
 
Oly Francis said:
Did you miss the fact that United wasted 3 months chasing De Jong? Martinez, De Jong, Antony, don't you think there's a pattern here?



They don't though, they only serve one purpose : giving the player a way out if a certain price is reached. It can sometimes be done easily if it's low (so you can go in any club you want) or the clubs can negociate and raise the amount so only a handful of club (or none in spain when it's 1 billion) can pay it but I really don't see how they surve multiple purposes.
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We tried to buy 2 dejongs?


Martinez was wrapped up and played the first game of the season. All the other players we bought he hasn't worked with before. Anthony not his issue, Ajax keep increasing the fee and our club wasted time letting this run to the end when the player already wants to come.


Again, I'm pointing out your post about he only seems to be going for players he worked with, is just not true. If anything we haven't really landed his key targets. But he seems quite happy to bring in players he hasn't worked with, as shown already, and other ones he reported have spoke too and then the club walked away from it, ie Rabilot
 
United are upset that Ajax don't care if they fecked up their negotiation strategy.

Boo feckin hoo.

Now we need the player to save us from a mess by going public. We're a disgrace.
 
wangyu said:
He is probably a better player than Rapinha. After the world cup I expect him to be well over 100 million. He also wants to join, how often does this happen? We need him and we can pay him
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:lol: he's going to be twice as good as Diaz?
 
Ajax certainly playing the game and squeezing as much out of us as possible. I can’t blame them given how late in the window it is. I hope we get him though, he looks mustard.
 
RobinLFC said:
Perhaps out of necessity if the youth players aren't good enough. You can't apply a strategy for your entire first team.

Even in recent years you'd have De Ligt, De Jong, Gravenberch, Van de Beek, Klaassen, Bergwijn, Mazraoui, Kluivert, Hoever, Botman, Dest, Lang all coming through their youth ranks (even if some of them left early out of own will). Name me another club that produces like that and you won't find very many in Europe. Let's agree to disagree if you think they entirely changed their philosophy which has been in place since the Cruijff days just because some years haven't as good as others when it comes to getting youth players to their first team.
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No I'm not agreeing to disagreeing because you're wrong. None of the names you listed are super stars. You're initial claim was they produce those on a regular basis. They've had golden generations, but generally speaking (especially with regards to this century) they don't.

De Jong was not an academy graduate, which is why he isnt on the tweet I posted.

The Zlatan model of buying young/early, develop, sell for a profit is a large part of their business nowadays. Feel free to check their transfers in recent years (and again, De Jong fits the model, he's not homegrown). Their homegrown outgoings are not in the super star category. The player that comes closest is De Ligt and he still has things to prove.

Where did Martinez and Antony come from? Bought for "cheap" (by United/big club standards) in Latin America.
 
Enigma_87 said:
I disagree. Of course it might be with age as well but he’s not at the same level as he was 16/17.

Ronaldo had a great understanding with sir Alex and on multiple years at United on top of being generational talent.
Modric joined real for 30m which when you look at it was really low value. Rooney didn’t go that far as far as I remember.

There are tons of players that got their transfers And on a lower value as soon as they threw a strop and even world class players with Lewa being the latest example.
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Well I mean yeah but he was arguably the best striker on the planet that season. He didn't reach that level in 17/18, 18/19 or 19/20 and he wasn't pushing for a move any of those seasons either so what's the link?

My point about Modric is that the season before that, he went on strike, was crying about a gentleman's agreement with Levy, about how a Chelsea (who'd put in a 35 million pound bid) were the only club he ever wanted to play for and we said no (mostly because it was Chelsea). After a few weeks of strop into thseason, he buckled down, had one of his best seasons and then got his move to an infinitely superior club to Chelsea thr season after.

Rooney put in a transfer request, said the club wasn't showing enough ambition and demanded to go to your cross city rivals. I'd say that was pretty nuclear.

Tevez demanded a move and from memory refused to even come back to the UK? Didn't do too badly once he eventually did come back.

I'm not saying that some players don't get their moves when they throw a strop. I'm challenging the narrative peddled on here that if a player is denied his move, he totally gives up and downs tools for the next season. Which....Just isn't true.
 
Flexdegea said:
Again, I'm pointing out your post about he only seems to be going for players he worked with, is just not true. If anything we haven't really landed his key targets. But he seems quite happy to bring in players he hasn't worked with, as shown already, and other ones he reported have spoke too and then the club walked away from it, ie Rabilot
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I've never said he was only going for players he worked with but when 3 out of 4 of your major targets (Rabiot isn't comparable, he would have been a rotation player) for this mercato are players he worked with at Ajax, there's certainly a very clear pattern. It doesn't mean he's going to reject other players but he did ask United to spend big bucks on former Ajax players. Not once, not twice but 3 times in one transfer window.
 
Woziak said:
ETH is going to win or lose based on this transfer window, let’s assume he spends £200m on the following ; T Mallacia(12m), Cassemeiro(52M), L Martinez(46m), Antony (70m), A Bergovic(F), C Ericsen (F), C Gatpo(30m) Total £210M we need to ignore add ons they will never be achieved.

Transfers out: A Pereira (12m), J Garner(18M), C Ronaldo (12M), AWB(13M)
P Jones (5M), Net Sales £60M

Net Spend £150M
First 11 - D De Gea, V Lindelof, R Varane, L Martinez, L Shaw, Cassemeiro, Ericsen, Sancho(10), Antony, Martial, Gatpo

2nd 11 - A Bergovic, Dalot, Bailey, Maguire, T Malacia, Fred, IQbal, Bruno, Garnaucho, Rashford, Ellanga

it’s still lot enough to get top 6, we need to sell S Mctominay (25/30M) and get a proper number 9 like I Toney who knows the PL he’s probably available At £35/45m although a mobile 4 that move and pass like Antony, Sancho, Martial and Gatpo could be devastating if they hit form, I also think Dalot is so bad we should try Lindelof or Bailey at right back.
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Feck Toney, I want Mitrovic.
 
Wow - just read the interview with Fab.

I def think he would improve us but wasn’t convinced of the price tag. But now I want him even more. You’ve got to admire his determination to make the move and come to United and work again with Ten Hag. I can’t remember the last time a player was so desperate to come to us.

Hope Ajax will relent.
 
mu4c_20le said:
:lol: he's going to be twice as good as Diaz?
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sorry I’m not completely football crazy, with Diaz you mean the liverpool player?
If your question is genuine, I think he will be a truly awesome player for any team he signs for.
If he fails miserably you can bump my post and mock me. I can handle it :nervous:
 
africanspur said:
What do you mean? Why would any player and agent insert a release clause if it's not legally expected? Because they want to smooth the wheels of a potential transfer later on if it's what they want.
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I've no idea what you're on about here. You don't know why his agents inserted that clause, and can only speculate as I have in that very post (if you've read it, that is) given the clause structure, not its presence.

Of course the release clause is now higher too. He is negotiating with a more powerful club and is himself far more established in his career.

As per Haaland's easily accessible fee (though I agree of course far more so than the Man city one), only 16 clubs have ever paid that amount for a player. 1 is a Chinese club, 1 Newcastle this summer and 1 Spurs with N'Dombele, by far our record transfer.

Haaland was only ever likely to move to one of thr truly powerful premier league big 6 (ie not thr north londok clubs), PSG, Real, Barca, Bayern. His list of he moves from Man City in 3 years for 150 million doesn't look all that different in fairness.....
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Again ... what's the issue? The clause is there to allow him to leave irrespective of whatever fickleness runs through his club when a bid comes in. Which is what I said may happen for other talents looking at the Antony situation. And may have actually happened to Haaland given that he didn't have a release clause in his RB Salzburg contract prior to moving to Dortmund.
 
wangyu said:
sorry I’m not completely football crazy, with Diaz you mean the liverpool player?
If your question is genuine, I think he will be a truly awesome player for any team he signs for.
If he fails miserably you can bump my post and mock me. I can handle it :nervous:
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Nah I wont, because I think he has the potential and I hope he does. But your post made it sound like he'll become a 100m player right after the WC, before even kicking a ball in the PL.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Nah I wont, because I think he has the potential and I hope he does. But your post made it sound like he'll become a 100m player right after the WC, before even kicking a ball in the PL.
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I think he will set the world cup on fire with Brazil. I expect big things from that forward line.
 
Mickeza said:
Ah entitled. The other caf buzz word. Utter bullshit. The Kane example is fecking nonsense. He is one of the best strikers on the planet and had 3 years in his deal. Spurs told City they would sell for 150m - a fair market price. Kane and City tried to pressure them into selling for a price that wasn’t fair - sub 100m. Ajax aren’t even setting a price - they’re saying he can’t leave. Period. Fullstop. Which they can do - legally - it doesn’t make them not cnuts for doing so though.
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How are you a cnut because you don't want to sell yet ANOTHER PLAYER in one transfer window? Where did you get this idea that clubs must sell all their assets when a bid comes in? football manager? I know football manager every player has a fee whereby the computer automatically accepts but in real life players have always been denied moves. Kobe wanted to leave LA and they kept his ass there. Durant tried to leave Brooklyn and he said no. its happened in football since forever but you are only making a fuss because you want this player.

Adamsk7 said:
This is nuts. To be honest, I’m not sure I’ve ever been comfortable with clubs (even Utd) literally holding players against their will. It’s a free world and you should be free to go do whatever you want. In the case of football, yes it’s high stakes involved but that’s what the “fee” is for - compensation for the loss of the player and to buy out their contract. If a player says “I want to leave” yes even at Utd, they should be allowed to go so long as the compensation is fair. I think we can all agree that the compensation is more than fair in this case!

It’s all got a bit muddy and out of hand. Antony is right - he let them know with plenty of time and opportunities in sport are fleeting. He could have a dip in form and get worse offers next season or get an injury at the wrong time and not be able to move (like Ruud). I don’t like what he’s doing in going public but I understand it on a human level.

I’m sure nobody will agree with me as footballers are multimillionaires, pampered etc but they are also people too and it’s not their fault football is as lucrative as it is.
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Not when you are under a multi million pound sporting contract for 5 years. I dunno what world you live in. If players can just up and leave whenever they want then teams will struggle to build proper squads since contracted players have no obligation to stay. They could never effectively plan for future success.

DutchCruijff said:
First of all, he's a human. And there's a point at which money isn't everything.

Secondly, he signed a 5 year contract. Do you think that 5 year contract means he definitely has to see those 5 years out? That he signed that contract with the intent of staying for 5 years?

Antony has every right to demand a move, Ajax have every right to reject that move and United fans have every right to call them a bunch of cnuts.
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No we don't. We have no say or right to anything as he is their employee. Why MUST a team sell their best players/assets to us because we desire them? They have already lost most their player already this window. United fans Spoilt FC. You are acting like he is being made to work the fields in the hot ass sun and his treatment is inhumane. He is a professional sports player doing the career he loves. get a grip. I'm sure he can survive this terrible sufferings
 
marcus agrippa said:
Again ... what's the issue? The clause is there to allow him to leave irrespective of whatever fickleness runs through his club when a bid comes in. Which is what I said may happen for other talents looking at the Antony situation. And may have actually happened to Haaland given that he didn't have a release clause in his RB Salzburg contract prior to moving to Dortmund.
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he did. Dortmund activated it.
 
Leftback99 said:
We are the perfect example of how not to navigate a transfer window.
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what do you mean? 100m+....one of the most expensive signings in Premier League history, for a prospect/maybe player is totally sound according to this thread.

Lets just sweep under the rug that this has been in talks since basically ETH took over and now Ajax want us over a barrel, likey to get 50m more than his initial rumoured fee. According to this thread, this is totally sound and normal negotiations.

I'm just waiting for the revisionist history that states "we were never going to get him cheaper at any point in the window so its a good deal"
 
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