[jesperjaap]

Do you understand what "revisionist history" is/means? Because my post says Nani was miles ahead of anything Antony has shown, which is true.

Nani was at the club several years, Antony has been here less than a season, bit unfair to make that statement this early.

I hope we are not comparing the two in a couple of years though as Nani was hugely talented but as the last poster said, mainly frustrating in his time here. I remember one period where he switched wings he was electrifying for a while, but that was a small portion of his career here

 

[Oly Francis]

That's literally nonsense. You don't get a good xG by taking loads of shit shots. Your xG would remain shit. You would need an unrealistic amount of shots to actually pump the numbers the way you are describing, to a degree that just doesn't happen.

Are you deliberately ignoring how he has actually played recently? That he's actually shown some variation with his shots recently and he's had a lot of narrow misses lately?

Antony obviously doesn't only take shit shots, I was exagerating to show that him ranking pretty high in the xG stats comes in part because he takes a lot of shots.

If you compare him to a player like Mitoma, he gets 7.16xG from 1.96 shots per 90mn.
Antony has 4.88 xG from 3.41 shots per 90mn. That's not good, and we're not mentionning his abysmal passing stats.

Another comparison, Bryan Mbeumo gets 8.18 xG from 1.92 shots per 90mn, again not good for Antony who almost shoots twice the amount.

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

Do you understand what "revisionist history" is/means? Because my post says Nani was miles ahead of anything Antony has shown, which is true.

Yeah, and he wasn't. Not until his fourth season, at age 24. Before then he was extremely frustrating and inconsistent, and largely ineffective. He wasn't even a starter. And he was playing for the best team in the league under the greatest manager of all time - miles different than the dysfunctional clusterfeck Antony joined.

Nani had 2 great seasons here, 10/11 and 11/12. Before and after that he was a bit part player.

 

[Lyng]

Yeah, and he wasn't. Not until his fourth season, at age 24. Before then he was largely ineffective and extremely frustrating. And he was playing for the best team in the league under the greatest manager of all time - miles different than the dysfunctional clusterfeck Antony joined.

Works both ways. Nani had far more to his play than Antony. But given how good the team was Nani looked less in comparisson. Antony wouldnt have gotten any minutes in that team.

 

[bosnian_red]

Antony doesn't obviously only take shit shots, I was exagerating to show that him ranking pretty high in the xG stats comes in part because he takes a lot of shots.

If you compare him to a player like Mitoma, he gets 7.16xG from 1.96 shots per 90mn.
Antony has 4.88 xG from 3.41 shots per 90mn. That's not good, and we're not mentionning his abysmal passing stats.

He can improve on his decision making of course but he still has very encouraging numbers, his per 90 xG is 0.32, which is a 1 in 3 attacker. I'd expect him to just generally improve as a young player in his 2nd season in the league, so he can both improve on cutting out the dumb shots and still maintaining his good xG. It's promising now, is what I'm saying. I'd rather have an attacker like him that you just fine tune when to pass and improve their decision making as they actually have the potential to be top goal scorers, rather than have somebody who just doesn't get in goalscoring chances.

 

[Matt851]

Nani could always go past players for fun but his end product was inconsistent. I would prefer that to Antony, who can't go past players and whose end product is also highly inconsistent

Yeah, and he wasn't. Not until his fourth season, at age 24. Before then he was extremely frustrating and inconsistent, and largely ineffective. And he was playing for the best team in the league under the greatest manager of all time - miles different than the dysfunctional clusterfeck Antony joined.

 

[TsuWave]

Nani was at the club several years, Antony has been here less than a season, bit unfair to make that statement this early.

You don't have to wait until they've been at the club for the same amount of time to say that Nani was miles ahead of anything Antony has shown thus far. That's not to say Antony won't or can't improve

 

[lsd]

Can't wait to see him shut you all up who talk shit all season.

Won't hold my breath on this

 

[jesperjaap]

You don't have to wait until they've been at the club for the same amount of time to say that Nani was miles ahead of anything Antony has shown thus far. That's not to say Antony won't or can't improve

I didnt say we had to wait the same amount of time, but yes it is illogical to compare what a player did here over 4/5 seasons or however long it was with a player that has only been here about as long as it takes to have sex and then concieve.

Next up Camavinga has been shite at Madrid as he has shown nothing in his career there in comparison to Kroos.

Of course its an unfair comparison comparing any player in there debut season to somebodies whole career at a club over a few seasons

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

"Miles ahead"
"Would go past people for fun"

Scored a grand total of 16 goals in 106 apps in his first three seasons for us. Didn't score a European goal for us until 2010. All this while playing in a vastly superior team under our greatest ever manager.

 

[TsuWave]

Yeah, and he wasn't. Not until his fourth season, at age 24. Before then he was extremely frustrating and inconsistent, and largely ineffective. He wasn't even a starter. And he was playing for the best team in the league under the greatest manager of all time - miles different than the dysfunctional clusterfeck Antony joined.

Nani had 2 great seasons here, 10/11 and 11/12. Before and after that he was a bit part player.

And why are you adding qualifiers to my post? At which point did I say "Nani at age x was better than". Weird to say "revisionist history" to only then agree with me - "Yeah, he was but not until"

Even weirder to mention Nani not being a starter as if it validates Antony somehow. Unless you think Antony would have been a starter for the team Nani played in - but again I made a pretty simple to understand statement, if you wish to delve in to a linear comparison on where they were at respective ages, I think the outlook is even worse for Antony.

 

[Amar__]

Revisionist history, Nani was shite and insanely frustrating.

Clueless. Antony can hope he can become anyhwere near good as Nani.

 

[TsuWave]

I didnt say we had to wait the same amount of time, but yes it is illogical to compare what a player did here over 4/5 seasons or however long it was with a player that has only been here about as long as it takes to have sex and then concieve.

Next up Camavinga has been shite at Madrid as he has shown nothing in his career there in comparison to Kroos.

Of course its an unfair comparison comparing any player in there debut season to somebodies whole career at a club over a few seasons

That's because you interjected without understanding what I was referring to - which was to aspects of their game, not what they have accomplished. I don't even know how a sensible person would think to compare what a player did somewhere over 4/5 seasons to someone who hasn't had a full season. I mean I can look at Camavinga and say he's a better ball winner than Kroos, plays with more energy etc, but that's not a comparison I'd make since despite both being midfielders, I think they occupy different areas/have very different functions whereas with Antony/Nani is a more straightforward comparison, which again, I wasn't the one who made initially.

As it stands, I don't see anything in Antony's game that matches or is better than Nani's

 

[acnumber9]

"Miles ahead"
"Would go past people for fun"

Scored a grand total of 16 goals in 106 apps in his first three seasons for us. Didn't score a European goal for us until 2010. All this while playing in a vastly superior team under our greatest ever manager.

He also assisted 31 goals in those three seasons. At current pace we can expect Antony to match that in 2038.

 

[lsd]

He also assisted 31 goals in those three seasons. At current pace we can expect Antony to match that in 2038.

73 assists overall at United putting him third in assists for us in this century.

It's an absolute ridiculous comparison between him and Antony, just laughable that anyone would even attempt to suggest Antony is comparable to him

 

[Pogue Mahone]

73 assists overall at United putting him third in assists for us in this century.

It's an absolute ridiculous comparison between him and Antony, just laughable that anyone would even attempt to suggest Antony is comparable to him

I think the most ridiculous thing any of you are doing is comparing the stats of former players over their whole career - that were members of our most successful team ever - with the stats of someone who’s just coming to the end of his debut season, playing for a team that is a work in progress and lacking a proper number 9. And yes, I’m aware that other players have been more creative than Antony this season but none of them have come close to Nani’s debut figures. Which makes the comparison between him and current players pointless.

In my opinion the reason Antony’s not getting as many assist as he should is because he’s trying too hard to impress. Looking to try and score when he’d be better off passing. He’s obviously feeling the pressure to live up to his price tag and become the main man.

Hopefully that won’t be a problem as he settles down. Whatever, the lack of patience that so many of you have with a young player in his first season in a somewhat dysfunctional team is nuts. Especially when he’s actually put in some encouraging performances at times this season. Especially in recent weeks. Which is something you can say about very few of our attacking players at the end of a long, tough season. The last time we picked up 3 points in the league we have Antony to thank for (what should have been) a MOTM performance that was a huge boost to our CL hopes but that’s all been wiped from memories because everyone’s in a bad mood and looking to point fingers. Classic redcafe.

 

[FrankDrebin]

The Nani comparisons really have to stop.

So, Antony or Luke Chadwick ?

 

[acnumber9]

The last time we picked up 3 points in the league we have Antony to thank for (what should have been) a MOTM performance that was a huge boost to our CL hopes but that’s all been wiped from memories because everyone’s in a bad mood and looking to point fingers. Classic redcafe.

He didn’t start our last win. We played well in that game.

 

[El Jefe]

The Nani comparisons really have to stop.

So, Antony or Luke Chadwick ?

It's really baffling. Even worse is the complete lie that Nani was terrible for his first 3 seasons. He had a very good first season in the year we won the double. Played many games as a sub or starter and bagged many assists. It was after where he had a very poor 18 months.

His first season was way better than Antony's both statistically and on performance. The argument that Antony would have done X in that 2008 is moot because he never would have played (or have been signed). That was a star laden squad with no room for average performers.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He didn’t start our last win. We played well in that game.

Brain fart. Was thinking of the Forest match. Antony was our best player by a mile.

 

[The Firestarter]

Can't wait to see him shut you all up who talk shit all season.

Then you better learn how.

 

[Malone_Post]

In my opinion the reason Antony’s not getting as many assist as he should is because he’s trying too hard to impress. Looking to try and score when he’d be better off passing. He’s obviously feeling the pressure to live up to his price tag and become the main man.

Thats a massiveeeeee stretch in order to defend a player who has career statistics of just 30 assists in 160 matches. He managed just 4 league assists last season playing in a dominant title winning Ajax team. He had a total of 14 assists in 57 league games across two seasons for Ajax. He’s just a very selfish and un-creative player. It’s that simple. There’s no great mystery. His output throughout his career has always been poor. He couldn’t put up impressive numbers in the Dutch league so it’s absolutely no surprise he can’t even put up decent numbers in the PL. If this season was an anomaly in an otherwise productive career so far you could make an argument for him, but it’s not. It’s actually about on par with what you’d expect from a player that has always put up pretty poor to average numbers in his career thus far.

The more you look into his career pre-United the more insane it becomes that United allowed ETH to spend £83 million on this player. As someone above posted, we as a club even had scout reports on him as far back as his Sao Paulo days that said he wasn’t good enough. We’ve been absolutely hoodwinked here, something that most Dutch posters were telling us before we even made the deal. We even had Ajax supporters openly questioning why we were so desperate to buy him and for so much money.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Thats a massiveeeeee stretch in order to defend a player who has career statistics of just 30 assists in 160 matches. He managed just 4 league assists last season playing in a dominant title winning Ajax team. He had a total of 14 assists in 57 league games across two seasons for Ajax. He’s just a very selfish and un-creative player. It’s that simple. There’s no great mystery. His output throughout his career has always been poor. He couldn’t put up impressive numbers in the Dutch league so it’s absolutely no surprise he can’t even put up decent numbers in the PL. If this season was an anomaly in an otherwise productive career so far you could make an argument for him, but it’s not. It’s actually about on par with what you’d expect from a player that has always put up pretty poor to average numbers in his career thus far.

The more you look into his career pre-United the more insane it becomes that United allowed ETH to spend £83 million on this player. As someone above posted, we as a club even had scout reports on him as far back as his Sao Paulo days that said he wasn’t good enough. We’ve been absolutely hoodwinked here, something that most Dutch posters were telling us before we even made the deal. We even had Ajax supporters openly questioning why we were so desperate to buy him and for so much money.

Jesus. This has to be an even more circular thread than the fecking club sale thread.

One more time. For the cheap seats.

a) We paid well over the odds for him. Nobody disagrees with that. All that matters now is whether he might improve us as a team.

b) We didn’t buy the finished article. We bought a young player with potential. Somebody we hoped could improve dramatically over the next few years. Which ETH obviously thinks might happen, having worked closely with the player. So beating him up about stats at Ajax (never mind fecking Sao Paolo!) is pointless.

 

[TR1LL]

He'll play most of career wide but every time this guy drifts infield for a give an go he seems to cause the opposition chaos.


He’s been too predictable on the wing cutting in, but I’ll give him next season and see if he figures it out.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Nani was a far better player.

I like Antony but my word he has to be scoring more. Finds himself in great positions then doesn't remotely look like finishing the chance off or making the right pass. Very frustrating.

 

[The Ferociousness]

Hi Antony!

He was decent against west ham and was unlucky to not score. He was unlucky to be the one taken off. I'm talking in isolation here, in no way am I suggesting he's great, I think we wasted 100 million on him when we should have priotised signing a striker even with ronaldo as we saw his drop off at the end of last season and eth should have foreseen he was not long term solution.

Antony signing should illustrate and serve as a lesson that we should not be blindly backing the manager to sign his own players. Get in a sporting director so we don't allow this situation to unfold ever again where the manager becomes obssessive over a medicore signing

 

[Borys]

He can improve on his decision making of course but he still has very encouraging numbers, his per 90 xG is 0.32, which is a 1 in 3 attacker. I'd expect him to just generally improve as a young player in his 2nd season in the league, so he can both improve on cutting out the dumb shots and still maintaining his good xG. It's promising now, is what I'm saying. I'd rather have an attacker like him that you just fine tune when to pass and improve their decision making as they actually have the potential to be top goal scorers, rather than have somebody who just doesn't get in goalscoring chances.

I think you're making the wrong conclusion here, he's having high xG because of the position he plays in and because he takes many shots. There is very little brilliance that puts him in those high scoring positions. Put Bruno there and he would easily double those chances created/goals. Actually, put anyone there and expect to have5 goal contributions over the course of the season. It's just anyone can't do the midfield/defensive work that Antony does.

Nani was a far better player.

I like Antony but my word he has to be scoring more. Finds himself in great positions then doesn't remotely look like finishing the chance off or making the right pass. Very frustrating.

This. His output for a first season isn't that bad... unless you look at the number of chances he missess and how many wrong choices/execution leads to nothing.

He was decent against west ham and was unlucky to not score. He was unlucky to be the one taken off. I'm talking in isolation here, in no way am I suggesting he's great, I think we wasted 100 million on him when we should have priotised signing a striker even with ronaldo as we saw his drop off at the end of last season and eth should have foreseen he was not long term solution.

Antony signing should illustrate and serve as a lesson that we should not be blindly backing the manager to sign his own players. Get in a sporting director so we don't allow this situation to unfold ever again where the manager becomes obssessive over a medicore signing

I am not sure if any manager would do that, but if we had no RW we should've gone for a stop-gap signing there and assess after a season.

Obviously we didn't buy a finished article, but it's not like we bought some super prospect that everyone in Europe wanted. He was actually valued at 25-35m which I think is about right for a squad player midfielder/winger hybrid. ETH tried to be smart here and it's totally on him, right now after one season I'm very very pessimistic about this guy becoming anything more than he is now.

 

[Cassidy]

"Miles ahead"
"Would go past people for fun"

Scored a grand total of 16 goals in 106 apps in his first three seasons for us. Didn't score a European goal for us until 2010. All this while playing in a vastly superior team under our greatest ever manager.

He wasn't a starter when he first joined and was about 17 wasn't he?

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

He wasn't a starter when he first joined and was about 17 wasn't he?

He turned 21 a few months after joining.

 

[Cassidy]

He turned 21 a few months after joining.

Fair enough, he wasn't a regular though

 

[Vault Dweller]

This. His output for a first season isn't that bad... unless you look at the number of chances he missess and how many wrong choices/execution leads to nothing.

Yeah, I think that's why I give him more slack. You can see when he plays that he's an intelligent player, makes good runs and finds the gaps to pop up for a chance. Then proceeds to completely fail to make the keeper work or pick the right pass for a team mate. As I said, I'd be far more worried if he was doing absolutely nothing, but he does need to be doing far better in scoring or assisting. Hopefully this improves next season.

 

[Raoul]

The Nani comparisons really have to stop.

So, Antony or Luke Chadwick ?

Was thinking more of a Brazilian Chris Eagles

 

[Lyng]

Yeah, I think that's why I give him more slack. You can see when he plays that he's an intelligent player, makes good runs and finds the gaps to pop up for a chance. Then proceeds to completely fail to make the keeper work or pick the right pass for a team mate. As I said, I'd be far more worried if he was doing absolutely nothing, but he does need to be doing far better in scoring or assisting. Hopefully this improves next season.

This aspect of him makes me think of Welbeck when he was playing for us. The talent was clearly there and the build up play was very good, but as soon as he got to the final third it was like he was destined to make the wrong choice.

 

[Borys]

Yeah, I think that's why I give him more slack. You can see when he plays that he's an intelligent player, makes good runs and finds the gaps to pop up for a chance. Then proceeds to completely fail to make the keeper work or pick the right pass for a team mate. As I said, I'd be far more worried if he was doing absolutely nothing, but he does need to be doing far better in scoring or assisting. Hopefully this improves next season.

Actually, I would give him more slack if he dribbled his way to get a good shot (crossing/passing isn't even a thing for him). But he gets those chances simply because of the position he plays. Honestly you could put anyone there and expect to get 5 goal contributions over a full season.

I think he deserves very little praise for his attacking game. I don't rate it at all. The question is if we need his other attributes though. Personally I think at the moment we do need it. Next season, if we sort out midfield, I don't think so. We will need more players who can do the damage.

 

[Raoul]

Nani had 2 great seasons here, 10/11 and 11/12. Before and after that he was a bit part player.

He averaged 40 appearances a year for 5 consecutive years. The two years you cite, just produced a few more goals, but he contributed significantly across all five. After that it tailed off due to either injury or loss of form. Needless to say, if we get anything near that from Anthony, i will be delighted.

 

[Woziak]

It’s fashionable now to play a front free with inverted strikers a right foot on the left and left foot on the right to allow your full backs to overlay or go inverted. We do neither but gets the actual facts on Antony

Top Performing Left footed right inverted striker in PL 2022/23 :

1. M Salah P35 GS19 GA7 GI26 AVGI 1.34
2. B Saka. P35 GS13 GA11GI24 AVGI 1.45
3. S March P33 GS7 GA7 GI14. AVGI 2.40
4. M Almero P30 GS11 GA1 GI12 AVGI 2.50
5. B Mbeumo P35 GS6 GA6 GI12 AVGI 2.90

6. M Olise P34 GS2 GA9. GI11 AVGI 3.09
7. D Kuleveski P27 GS2 GA6 GI8 AVGI 3.40
8. J Bowen. P35 GS5 GA4. GI9. AVGI 3.88
9. L Bailey. P30 GS4. GA3 GI7 AVGI 4.22
10. Antony. P22 GS4. GA1.GI5 AVGI 4.45

Summary we spent £83m on the tenth best right winger in the PL that looks like he has a brittle mentality as he’s played 25% less games than the rest too. You can’t play for man United a key investment and score or assist 1 goal in every 4 and half games. We sold Lukaku whose stats are far superior to this imposter.

ETH wanted him, it’s on him but had the club done it’s correct due diligence we could have probably bought Leon Bailey, M olise or even Solly March for half the price If not less and also bought Gatkpo or another CFW in the summer.

The quicker the club recruits a strong DOF who controls the manager and the club the better.

The irony of all this is if created a top ten for wages received weekly then Antony is number two and that’s what’s scary about this club, we continue to pay huge wages to unproven PL players!

 

[Cassidy]

It’s fashionable now to play a front free with inverted strikers a right foot on the left and left foot on the right to allow your full backs to overlay or go inverted. We do neither but gets the actual facts on Antony

Top Performing Left footed right inverted striker in PL 2022/23 :

1. M Salah P35 GS19 GA7 GI26 AVGI 1.34
2. B Saka. P35 GS13 GA11GI24 AVGI 1.45
3. S March P33 GS7 GA7 GI14. AVGI 2.40
4. M Almero P30 GS11 GA1 GI12 AVGI 2.50
5. B Mbeumo P35 GS6 GA6 GI12 AVGI 2.90

6. M Olise P34 GS2 GA9. GI11 AVGI 3.09
7. D Kuleveski P27 GS2 GA6 GI8 AVGI 3.40
8. J Bowen. P35 GS5 GA4. GI9. AVGI 3.88
9. L Bailey. P30 GS4. GA3 GI7 AVGI 4.22
10. Antony. P22 GS4. GA1.GI5 AVGI 4.45

Summary we spent £83m on the tenth best right winger in the PL that looks like he has a brittle mentality as he’s played 25% less games than the rest too. You can’t play for man United a key investment and score or assist 1 goal in every 4 and half games. We sold Lukaku whose stats are far superior to this imposter.

ETH wanted him, it’s on him but had the club done it’s correct due diligence we could have probably bought Leon Bailey, M olise or even Solly March for half the price If not less and also bought Gatkpo or another CFW in the summer.

The quicker the club recruits a strong DOF who controls the manager and the club the better.

The irony of all this is if created a top ten for wages received weekly then Antony is number two and that’s what’s scary about this club, we continue to pay huge wages to unproven PL players!

Bit of a leap.

Anyway lets hope he improves next season, with a season in the PL under his belt and hopefully a competent number 9 in the side

 

[Matriac]

I think both Antony and Sancho can show improvements next season if we get in a solid striker that can help provide more options and thus make defenders less solid against us. Yes, Antony needs to be able to go to the line more to whip it in, but we need someone in there that can act on that ball. A striker that makes defenders actually worry about a throughball instead of focusing on Antony's raid that will ultimately always cut in to shoot at the moment.

 

[johnnyteutonic]

It’s fashionable now to play a front free with inverted strikers a right foot on the left and left foot on the right to allow your full backs to overlay or go inverted. We do neither but gets the actual facts on Antony

Top Performing Left footed right inverted striker in PL 2022/23 :

1. M Salah P35 GS19 GA7 GI26 AVGI 1.34
2. B Saka. P35 GS13 GA11GI24 AVGI 1.45
3. S March P33 GS7 GA7 GI14. AVGI 2.40
4. M Almero P30 GS11 GA1 GI12 AVGI 2.50
5. B Mbeumo P35 GS6 GA6 GI12 AVGI 2.90

6. M Olise P34 GS2 GA9. GI11 AVGI 3.09
7. D Kuleveski P27 GS2 GA6 GI8 AVGI 3.40
8. J Bowen. P35 GS5 GA4. GI9. AVGI 3.88
9. L Bailey. P30 GS4. GA3 GI7 AVGI 4.22
10. Antony. P22 GS4. GA1.GI5 AVGI 4.45

Summary we spent £83m on the tenth best right winger in the PL that looks like he has a brittle mentality as he’s played 25% less games than the rest too. You can’t play for man United a key investment and score or assist 1 goal in every 4 and half games. We sold Lukaku whose stats are far superior to this imposter.

ETH wanted him, it’s on him but had the club done it’s correct due diligence we could have probably bought Leon Bailey, M olise or even Solly March for half the price If not less and also bought Gatkpo or another CFW in the summer.

The quicker the club recruits a strong DOF who controls the manager and the club the better.

The irony of all this is if created a top ten for wages received weekly then Antony is number two and that’s what’s scary about this club, we continue to pay huge wages to unproven PL players!

Olise was the first player that came to mind when I heard we were in the market for a left-footed right-winger before we bought Antony. Very young and a lot of potential to grow plus already had a season under his belt at Premier League level where he showed a lot of promise.

 

[Skills]

Bit of a leap.

Anyway lets hope he improves next season, with a season in the PL under his belt and hopefully a competent number 9 in the side

What sort of production do you expect from him next season?