[dannyrhinos89]

of course he needs to improve on his general output but the fact is that we are a better team with him in the side which says it all.

Its his first season in a new league so let’s see what he’s like next season before bringing out the pitchforks.

 

[Hackman2210]

He just totally reminds me of Kanchelskis - a winger / right midfielder hybrid. His workrate is that of a MF but he has the tricks of a winger. In 10 years we'll look back at his fee and think - bargain!

 

[Member 125352]

It's interesting that I've seen you critizicing other players, sometimes being too harsh, yet here you're almost his agent.

Having paid the amount of money United paid for Antony, he's far, far away from fullfilling the requeriments to be a top class winger. To the level that he doesn't do the fundamentals in the position. He doesn't go one v one, he doesn't cross.

I think he won't make that much of a progress, he should be displaying a different game by now. He's not United level. At all. Then, if United fans lowered their standards and are ok with a winger that puts effort in defense and helps clearing the ball after defending but generates almost nothing in attack, that's another discussion.


He made a great pass today. But whoever was in charge to decide the fee paid for him, damaged the club.

It is true I criticized players including Antony, depends on my mood!
The only truth is that this batch of players brought us this far and we are still on course to have a monumental season. The finishing line is in sight, now is not the time for critic. We’ve come a very long way to be in a position where we could win 3 cups in one season plus a top 4 league placing! All we do is moan and groan at times but we won yesterday and it wasn’t pretty but we won, I saw focus and determination of all players after a really bad spell. For me everything is pointing in the right direction.

You never know how good player x or y could look next season with proper reinforcements. Antony has no good striker in front of him and an inconsistent back behind him we also have to think about that. He is no Ronaldinho of that I am sure but he is ours now and he works for the shirt. This is far More than Ronaldo did in his last spell for example.

 

[tomaldinho1]

His stats were average in Holland too. There is nothing to really suggest he can be a top player beyond the fact we spent a ludicrous amount of money on him

Define ‘top player’? If we get top four this year and a bit of luck in the cup are we saying that’s in spite of Antony or something?

Who is there at RW that’s realistic I’ll ask again? It was a problem position and now I feel it’s sorted for now, whether Antony kicks on we’ll see but he’s good enough and right age to think we’ll see improvement.

 

[Reapersoul20]

He's already a top player

 

[KikiDaKats]

Except valencia was massive, rapid and could cross

Valencia used to target the shin of full backs and you’d wonder how he ever got to United but he will also give a very committed performance every game, which does help engage the fullback to a point.

 

[Matt851]

Define ‘top player’? If we get top four this year and a bit of luck in the cup are we saying that’s in spite of Antony or something?

Who is there at RW that’s realistic I’ll ask again? It was a problem position and now I feel it’s sorted for now, whether Antony kicks on we’ll see but he’s good enough and right age to think we’ll see improvement.

Not saying it would be in spite of him but he has hardly made a massive contribution. The fact is if rashford gets injured we don't really have anyone who will score regularly

If we are to progress to challenging the title we will need a lot more than Antony is ever likely to offer

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

He needs to improve his decision making and final ball. Needs to be more aggressive in isolating defenders.

However, he plays with a weak midfield, no RB and no striker. He has zero support.

 

[lex talionis]

There has to be more to Antony’s game than what we’ve seen so far this season.

 

[Shimo]

Valencia used to target the shin of full backs and you’d wonder how he ever got to United but he will also give a very committed performance every game, which does help engage the fullback to a point.

Valencia started destroying opposing players shins when he was converted to a right back. It was crazy because when he played as an actual winger, while he never had a whipped type of cross in him, he managed to get the ball into dangerous areas. Like Antony, he was one thing and defenders knew, go on the outside but, no one could stop him at the time, even Ashley Cole who was in his prime used to get torn apart. The time Rooney scored all those headed goals, several came from Valencia's crossing.

 

[sullydnl]

There has to be more to Antony’s game than what we’ve seen so far this season.

Looking at him stats-wise and comparing him this season versus the Antony at Ajax, the big difference is simply the lack of creativity.

From 0.37-0.50 expected assists per 90 in his Ajax seasons down to 0.07 here. So the Antony at Ajax was about as likely to score as the one we've seen, but 5-7 times more likely to create a goal.

So really that's what we haven't seen this season, for whatever reason. The question is why and whether he can fix it.

I would argue/hope that not having a central goalscorer like Haller to create for is a big part of that, in which case we should see a quick improvement next season if we sign a CF. If we don't see that improvement....

 

[buckooo1978]

interesting thread this

Seems to be a 50/50 split on him.

Trust the manager

 

[tomaldinho1]

Not saying it would be in spite of him but he has hardly made a massive contribution. The fact is if rashford gets injured we don't really have anyone who will score regularly

If we are to progress to challenging the title we will need a lot more than Antony is ever likely to offer

I think it’s about balance. Rashford - Osimhen - Antony is a very strong front line in my opinion for example. If he can get hit 15 goals and assists next year that’s what we need in addition to his defensive/team work. Rashford and the striker will be bulk of the goal output.

 

[croadyman]

He needs to improve his decision making and final ball. Needs to be more aggressive in isolating defenders.

However, he plays with a weak midfield, no RB and no striker. He has zero support.

Do you reckon a Frimpong and Kane would help bring out more in his game then

 

[KikiDaKats]

Valencia started destroying opposing players shins when he was converted to a right back. It was crazy because when he played as an actual winger, while he never had a whipped type of cross in him, he managed to get the ball into dangerous areas. Like Antony, he was one thing and defenders knew, go on the outside but, no one could stop him at the time, even Ashley Cole who was in his prime used to get torn apart. The time Rooney scored all those headed goals, several came from Valencia's crossing.

My original statement got led down this route but it wasn’t about his ability. That was a tongue in cheek.
It’s about him being a 5.5 man and on a good day he destroys the opponent. A 5.5 because he always does the dirty stuff first and foremost, making sure that area is on lock and key. This is what I see in Anthony. In attack he can be all over the place but will create width, track his FB and force him to a standing position. What he does after is dependent or let’s just say inconsistent.

 

[harms]

Valencia used to target the shin of full backs and you’d wonder how he ever got to United but he will also give a very committed performance every game, which does help engage the fullback to a point.

Did you miss his peak? He was hitting double-digit numbers assists for a few seasons in a row before evidently forgetting how to cross altogether. 09/10 and 11/12 were especially good.

 

[Shimo]

My original statement got led down this route but it wasn’t about his ability. That was a tongue in cheek.
It’s about him being a 5.5 man and on a good day he destroys the opponent. A 5.5 because he always does the dirty stuff first and foremost, making sure that area is on lock and key. This is what I see in Anthony. In attack he can be all over the place but will create width, track his FB and force him to a standing position. What he does after is dependent or let’s just say inconsistent.

My bad - that's for sure. With the way he kept his width, he was always an outlet and when he received the ball, he could literally carry us 30-40 yards up the field. Defenders knew they could not rest and our RBs always knew they also could rely on him to lend a hand, that's for sure.

 

[KikiDaKats]

Did you miss his peak? He was hitting double-digit numbers assists for a few seasons in a row before evidently forgetting how to cross altogether. 09/10 and 11/12 were especially good.

At times we can underrate past players.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

ill hold judgement until next season when hopefully the midfield is better sorted, and we have an actual number 9 leading the line (hopefully). I do like how wide he plays, seems to have good fitness levels as well. Just needs to work on doing something else when shooting. Getting an upgrade on RB as well could help with linking up better. Feel like we dont get much out of Dalot/AWB going forward as we could. Think overall he helps our spacing a lot, much better than before when literally the right flank was a dead zone where we never bothered going.

 

[KikiDaKats]

My bad - that's for sure. With the way he kept his width, he was always an outlet and when he received the ball, he could literally carry us 30-40 yards up the field. Defenders knew they could not rest and our RBs always knew they also could rely on him to lend a hand, that's for sure.

I liked that about him. You know he will give you solid every game, even when not having an outstanding game. Wide men are generally in consistent but they need this quality to keep them in games till things fall into place.

 

[Fabio Rochemback]

interesting thread this

Seems to be a 50/50 split on him.

Trust the manager

I think any reasonable person should be 50/50 on him. It could vert easily go either way with him, anyone saying with certainty that he will or won't make it is judging prematurely.

 

[Sylar]

Antony should try to change things up with his shot, maybe try catch the keeper out going near post.

He just totally reminds me of Kanchelskis - a winger / right midfielder hybrid. His workrate is that of a MF but he has the tricks of a winger. In 10 years we'll look back at his fee and think - bargain!

Don't see it at all, kanchelskis could use both feet and dribble past people. Pellestri reminds me more of kanchelskis with the way he runs and dribbles.

 

[Amar__]

The irrational hatred continues.

Of course he has lots to work - the aimless shooting as if he’s Messi / Ronaldo incarnate or the lack of acceleration which leaves him one pace. But there’s also a bit to appreciate in his ball retention, quick link Up play, sense of urgency and responsibility, willingness to battle and pressing/ defensive output.

That's clearly over the top.

Hardly anyone said anything worse than you said in that same post, he is not assisting, scoring or creating, but he is keeping the possession well and his attitude is praise worthy as he is available to pass to and he is good defensively.

Asking more from him is not hatred, it's just being realistic. Greenwood was much better and more important player for us when he was here, and many people criticised him because he wasn't involved that much in games. Do you think people had hatred towards him?

 

[Marwood]

Created the chance for the goal, created another good chance for McTominay to score. Had a few good shooting opportunities, at least one decent cross for Rashford slightly overhit.

Worked his ass off, kept the ball well. Is it a 100M performance, no, but that was never his fault. That's because we'd either be playing Elanga or Pellistri there all season, and we are a much better team with him than without as he understands what EtH needs from a winger better than most.

Did we overpay yes, is he going to become better, also likely yes. There were few better options we could have gone for.

Some of you guys are really insufferable.

You're stretching a bit there. Blasting shots well wide from 20 yards out and overhitting a cross(likely another shot wide anyway) aren't plus points.

His workrate and aggression very good and the cross to McTominay with his right is hopefully the penny dropping for him.

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

Do you reckon a Frimpong and Kane would help bring out more in his game then

Yes

 

[ti vu]

Valencia started destroying opposing players shins when he was converted to a right back. It was crazy because when he played as an actual winger, while he never had a whipped type of cross in him, he managed to get the ball into dangerous areas. Like Antony, he was one thing and defenders knew, go on the outside but, no one could stop him at the time, even Ashley Cole who was in his prime used to get torn apart. The time Rooney scored all those headed goals, several came from Valencia's crossing.

Not really.

Valencia attacking contribution already declined as a winger. We used to think because that season where he wears the no 7 shirt. But it turns out he lost that extra acceleration which used to allow him to get the ball before defenders can react.

Valencia became a full back because he's decent one vs one defensively, hard working with great stamina. Only his his first touch and straight line kick and run dribbling style is consistent from technical point of view. His one dimensional and his crossing technique is nothing to boast about.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

That's clearly over the top.

Hardly anyone said anything worse than you said in that same post, he is not assisting, scoring or creating, but he is keeping the possession well and his attitude is praise worthy as he is available to pass to and he is good defensively.

Asking more from him is not hatred, it's just being realistic. Greenwood was much better and more important player for us when he was here, and many people criticised him because he wasn't involved that much in games. Do you think people had hatred towards him?

Plenty have. A few have even said he’s one of the most useless wide players they’ve seen or some shit like that. Asking more from him isn’t the only that’s happening - there’s definitely an irrational hatred among many. I’m just too lazy to now start pulling out those posts.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Stats never tell the whole story but bloody hell, his stats in PL are awful.
16 games, 3 goals, zero assists, zero big chances created, 1 dribble per game and..... 0.1 ( ) crosses delivered.

 

[Yagami]

There has to be more to Antony’s game than what we’ve seen so far this season.

Well, as I said before he joined, this was pretty much how he played at Ajax. He struggled to beat his FB there, ruined plenty of counter attacks due to either not trusting himself to carry the ball or needing to always cut in on his left whether it was the right time or not, nearly always looked to cut in and shoot, didn't have a good cross on him, etc.

The two big differences were that the league was obviously weaker than the PL, and Mazraoui completely dominated the right which gave Antony plenty of leeway.

Though, for the Brazilian youth teams I saw, he was much more impressive. Along with Arsenals Martinelli and Matheus Henrique, he was always the most impressive player on the pitch. He was more direct, was beating his FBs, using his right foot more. That's what still gives me hope that he can become a good player. Not this explosive winger most thought we were getting, but, if he improves his strength, a good playmaker who can chip in with some goals.

 

[Red4Ever]

Stats never tell the whole story but bloody hell, his stats in PL are awful.
16 games, 3 goals, zero assists, zero big chances created, 1 dribble per game and..... 0.1 ( ) crosses delivered.

how many points did Utd get in those games?

 

[RedRonaldo]

Well, as I said before he joined, this was pretty much how he played at Ajax. He struggled to beat his FB there, ruined plenty of counter attacks due to either not trusting himself to carry the ball or needing to always cut in on his left whether it was the right time or not, nearly always looked to cut in and shoot, didn't have a good cross on him, etc.

The two big differences were that the league was obviously weaker than the PL, and Mazraoui completely dominated the right which gave Antony plenty of leeway.

Though, for the Brazilian youth teams I saw, he was much more impressive. Along with Arsenals Martinelli and Matheus Henrique, he was always the most impressive player on the pitch. He was more direct, was beating his FBs, using his right foot more. That's what still gives me hope that he can become a good player. Not this explosive winger most thought we were getting, but, if he improves his strength, a good playmaker who can chip in with some goals.

On hindsight its crazy those people in Ajax has the guts to ask for that much money, 40-50m is absolutely the max they could do hope for even they do not wish to sell the player, really. Normally the fee shouldn't go higher than 20-30m, as he is just plain average. How we manage to end up paying 85m is totally beyond common sense, its like Barca asking for Fred for 80m, or Real asking for Mctominay for 80m out of the nowhere, I doubt even my 12 year old nephew would do something so reckless in a FM game.

 

[Stacks]

You are not wrong but some of those guy should not be in that conversation.
Saka first season of senior football
Almiron was not a starter

The Mahrez, Salah and Son comparison is bob on. He is done brilliant in my opinion, He is currently operating at the expected level of a wide. It’s about the next step in the coming years and he looks determined enough.

Antony had played 135 senior games when he moved to England and cost £82 million. Mahrez had played 67, having previously only played semi professionally and cost £450k, Salah had played 123 (44 in Egypt, not sure what the level is like) and cost £11 million, Son had played 165 (all in Bundesliga) and cost £22 million. They all were bargains/punts some with less experience and Antony was the biggest signing in the league this season. comparing apples to oranges

 

[KikiDaKats]

Antony had played 135 senior games when he moved to England and cost £82 million. Mahrez had played 67, having previously only played semi professionally and cost £450k, Salah had played 123 (44 in Egypt, not sure what the level is like) and cost £11 million, Son had played 165 (all in Bundesliga) and cost £22 million. They all were bargains/punts some with less experience and Antony was the biggest signing in the league this season. comparing apples to oranges

I don’t understand your reply.

 

[Teja]

interesting thread this

Seems to be a 50/50 split on him.

Trust the manager

Yep I'm here at this point. I think he's been very underwhelming for the amount of money we spent but his one standout property is that you give him the ball and he doesn't lose it. That is a super valuable property to have.

I know people complain about his backpass to the player in the halfspace but that is a pretty high value pass. If KdB or TAA receive those passes in space they are 100% creating a chance.

Part of the issue is none of our players can play that KdB / TAA style cross and there's no player to get on the end of it.

 

[shamans]

I have to be honest it's been disappointing so far but I'm sure there's a lot more to him that ETH sees. First season and all as well. Just hope he can kick on starting next season.

 

[Stacks]

I don’t understand your reply.

Basically I don't think you should compare his signing to those players and be delighted by his contribution. Many of those players were punts who happened to turn out pretty good. He can't be an £82 million punt, if you know what I mean

 

[Member 125352]

You know how it goes get one or two other dangerous players in the team so opposition defenders have to keep their eye on them which then creates space for Antony which makes him play better, which gets his self confidence up and who knows where it will end?

Ten hag has made us resilient and confident, despite shipping tons of goals I think we do manage to control a lot of games, our game vs Brentford is a good example of that but the attack seemingly doesn’t click and I believe he will do what’s needed next season to also turn that around.

I expect a good last run from the team when Eriksen and Casemiro claim the much needed central spots again. There is a big chance we will win some more silverware and hopefully it will be the Europa League. Winning in Europe is always special no matter what cup it is.

 

[KikiDaKats]

Basically I don't think you should compare his signing to those players and be delighted by his contribution. Many of those players were punts who happened to turn out pretty good. He can't be an £82 million punt, if you know what I mean

Oh okay.

To start of I don’t believe their is any individual footballer’s ability worth £50m. I generally believe these prices are predetermined by none football factors. So, when am watching players at no point do I ever factor their transfer price in relation to performances. Performance or expectations are there to be met by any player that plays for a club and it doesn’t matter what their price was.

If that’s the criteria he doesn’t match up. I was in fact trying to whittle down that list and just eliminated the most inexperienced guys from it.

 

[Malone_Post]

I think it’s about balance. Rashford - Osimhen - Antony is a very strong front line in my opinion for example. If he can get hit 15 goals and assists next year that’s what we need in addition to his defensive/team work. Rashford and the striker will be bulk of the goal output.

So basically Rashford & Osimhen would have to carry the bulk of the attacking output because Antony is incapable. Sounds about right.

 

[Loon]

He just totally reminds me of Kanchelskis - a winger / right midfielder hybrid. His workrate is that of a MF but he has the tricks of a winger. In 10 years we'll look back at his fee and think - bargain!

Too many cutbacks to remind me of Kanchelskis. Kanchelskis seemed more direct. I'd love if Antony could get a few of Andrei's "initial strike deflects back" goals though!