My main concern so far is his lack of quality on the ball. I can’t think of a single pass or cross he’s played that’s been high class. So far, he looks quite limited. It’s time to be patient with him though - hopefully ETH is working on him having more variety.
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 44
- Goals
- 8
- Assists
- 3
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- 8
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we don't and who is going to provide goals if not our forwards? Would you spend a 3rd of your transfer budget on Welbeck?
In a side so clearly lacking in goals and creativity its abit bizarre to not expect one of your main forward players not to assist, score or atleast try to be creative with the ball.
Stretching with that one.
Stretching with that one.
He should be providing more goals and assists I agree.
But on the other hand, once he went off, Arsenal, Zinchenko, in particular had the freedom of the left flank, resulting in the third goal. Bruno is not the sort who'd occupy the opposition full back. Unfortunately, the options ETH has is rather limited.
But on the other hand, once he went off, Arsenal, Zinchenko, in particular had the freedom of the left flank, resulting in the third goal. Bruno is not the sort who'd occupy the opposition full back. Unfortunately, the options ETH has is rather limited.
As frustrating as he’s been, I actually have some hope after his performance yesterday. Especially the first half. I saw little passages of play which made me think he does have the potential to succeed but it’s going to be heavily based on whether we can get a high calibre right back in who can let us maximise Antony’s ability. When Antony doesn’t play it’s noticeable how much less space our midfielders have in the centre to operate in because the opponents back line isn’t being stretched anymore. I know you’d expect a lot more from an £80m player but at the moment a lot of his key contributions are not the highlights video kind of moments.so true
His lack of pace is infuriating because he doesn't seem skillfull enough to take his player on. You can be either slow and have the ability/skill to beat a man or be quick to beat a man or both. From him I have seen neither
He is too predictable when he runs with the ball. He always dribbles with his left foot and will almost never use his right to do any sort of pass. Him running along the touchline is so obvious what he'd do that I am convinced even I could defend against him
He may be a bit too predictable right now but I do think there is value he brings when he plays. Most notably, he does execute an important role in stretching the pitch as wide as possible by hugging the touch line. You will often see the full back have to go out or engage him which creates bigger spaces between the defenders allowing the likes of Bruno and Dalot(AWB) make those underlapping runs. Antony has found those passes to those runs on many occasions but he does need to improve his pass completion and decision making which I hope will come.
I do think he’s in a very similar predicament to Sancho in that they need a high calibre full back who will make those supporting runs allowing him to thrive.
The excuses are getting desperate. How are these things even pointed out as arguments for Antony?
At this level every winger should be able to do these things if demanded by a manager, while also being able to provide threat. They don't require a specific skillset that only Antony possesses and somehow qualify him exclusively to stretch the play and "bring balance". You need basic football intelligence to do this.
Tracking back and passing to an overlapping FB? Should we also point out he is able to kick the ball as well? Come on.
Given it won't be Antony, presumably it will be the same sort of outlet(s) who provided the goals when ETH and Antony worked together at Ajax. In other words chiefly the centre-forward, along with contributions from other attackers.
Last season Antony was Ajax's 5th highest goalscorer in the league, with the players above him having scored a combined 51 goals. This season he's our 3rd highest goalscorer in the league so far, with the players above him having scored a combined 13. The main difference being the lack of a 20+ league goal centre-forward we're all so aware of.
Why is it so many our players need another type player in the team before we can get the best out of them , the same was said about Pogba , Sancho and even for a while Maguire and on and on.
i.e. we won't see them really playing well until we get X or an X type of player to work alongside or behind him etc etc.
I think it is just grasping at straws.
i.e. we won't see them really playing well until we get X or an X type of player to work alongside or behind him etc etc.
I think it is just grasping at straws.
Every top winger/ wide player in football has largely done the unfashionable job in helping out defensively, most of them have played for our club infact. But, unlike Antony, they were seriously effective uptop too.
So, don't talk about how Antony's work rate and the defensive aspect of his game is something totally unheard of from a wide player. The top ones have all done that and much, much more.
Now I'm not dismissive of him putting in a defensive shift, because we clearly need it from our players but please don't put it out there like its something new from attackers.
Look at the shifts Mane, Salah, Mahrez and Saka have put in-in recent times up and down the pitch.
So, don't talk about how Antony's work rate and the defensive aspect of his game is something totally unheard of from a wide player. The top ones have all done that and much, much more.
Now I'm not dismissive of him putting in a defensive shift, because we clearly need it from our players but please don't put it out there like its something new from attackers.
Look at the shifts Mane, Salah, Mahrez and Saka have put in-in recent times up and down the pitch.
Thought yesterday was a decent performance given the opposition. He actually tried to take on opponents a few times and retained the ball really well down that flank. There are lots of reasons to be displeased by his start, but yesterday wasn't one of them IMO.
He'll be fine. I actually think he's trying too hard mentally and putting too much pressure on himself. He needs to take a step, cut out the waste and get back to the basics. Even the way he dribbles, does this annoying ball roll, which just slows him down and lets defenders catch up with him. Once people starts respecting his basics, he can start adding the joga bonito.
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A useful comparison might be the role Bernardo Silva plays for City when used at RW. Not someone who provides particular productivity (7 goal, 7 assists his best ever league return for City) but his workrate and ability to keep the ball under pressure nonethless make him extremely valuable in that role.
Effectively that's a large part of what Antony provides at RW. He's excellent at keeping the ball under pressure and we already use him as an outball to allow us to move up the pitch for that reason. And it's not a coincidence that he's one of our players most obviously suited to a move away from a counter-attacking style and towards the possession-based, hard-pressing approach ETH preferred at Ajax. The more we move in that direction the better he fits.
He's obviously not as good a footballer as Silva in other ways though, so we certainly need more productivity from him, particularly in terms of what he's creating for others. I'm sure ETH would have expected him to keep developing in that regard even at Ajax, let alone here. But productivity clearly isn't the main thing ETH sees in Antony, a player who was only the 4th most productive in his Ajax side last season. If that's primarily what ETH was looking for, he wouldn't have signed him.
He's never going to be a 100m player. But he can absolutely be to us what he was to Ajax, which was something ETH valued so highly we ended up paying 100m for him regardless. And if the team is ultimately successful, that's enough.
Effectively that's a large part of what Antony provides at RW. He's excellent at keeping the ball under pressure and we already use him as an outball to allow us to move up the pitch for that reason. And it's not a coincidence that he's one of our players most obviously suited to a move away from a counter-attacking style and towards the possession-based, hard-pressing approach ETH preferred at Ajax. The more we move in that direction the better he fits.
He's obviously not as good a footballer as Silva in other ways though, so we certainly need more productivity from him, particularly in terms of what he's creating for others. I'm sure ETH would have expected him to keep developing in that regard even at Ajax, let alone here. But productivity clearly isn't the main thing ETH sees in Antony, a player who was only the 4th most productive in his Ajax side last season. If that's primarily what ETH was looking for, he wouldn't have signed him.
He's never going to be a 100m player. But he can absolutely be to us what he was to Ajax, which was something ETH valued so highly we ended up paying 100m for him regardless. And if the team is ultimately successful, that's enough.
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This one drove me to insanity
He sure has a big mouth on him. I feared he would be sent off yesterday.
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Yep, that was really bad and also quite symptomatic. He's not good at controlling the ball at pace which is why he slows things down so much.
Goal for sure.
I think having Amad Diallo back next season could be interesting. Hopefully the competition will push both of them to be better. Amad's on fire right now. Coming back to us next season could derail him, granted, but I'd hope it has the opposite effect and pushes him and Antony to be amazing options for that RW (cutting in using their preferred left foot) position. It'll also be interesting to see what we do on the left too, with Rashford playing incredibly well, Garnacho impressing and Sancho still to come back.
We've been linked to Vitor Roque today too. He's a 5 foot 9, 17 year old (18 in February) Brazilian striker who is left footed. I wonder if he would be earmarked as Antony competition while he's still growing. Although, saying that, he's got a Tevez-like stockiness and has huge potential as a goalscorer.
We've been linked to Vitor Roque today too. He's a 5 foot 9, 17 year old (18 in February) Brazilian striker who is left footed. I wonder if he would be earmarked as Antony competition while he's still growing. Although, saying that, he's got a Tevez-like stockiness and has huge potential as a goalscorer.
No he doesn't. Dalot takes up exactly the same positions that Wan Bissaka has been as an inverted full back - because that's how Ten Hag has set them up to play. Dalot is better going forward though.
This isn't the 90s where the players just do whatever they want.
Usually teams have a Batman winger and a Robin full back. Anthony had the price tag of a Batman, but the team probably need a 200M RB to make this side of the pitch work.
Is this a formula for success at this level? sole reliance on one scoring forward? seems a bit risky
Needs to run more at defenders. Wasnt too bad yesterday.
To be fair its not easy from there. It looks straightforward on a screenshot but those Arsenal players are chasing back with real pace. His next couple of touches would need to be perfect and even then it would be tricky to score.
But the problem was how badly he got it wrong. Was an awful touch. Not good for his already dodgy confidence.
Because United fans are always full of excuses or placing blame elsewhere.
When we lose -- we need to sign x, y, z.
When we win -- see, Ronaldo's gone and now we can win.
That all may very well be true, but sometimes it's as simple as the better team won, let's practice harder/adjust some tactics, then come back next time, play better and win.
I didn’t think he was bad yesterday. I thought eriksen should have been subbed off for Fred not Antony. Probably being subbed off because he was already on yellow. He’s different profile to rashford, whicy doesn’t have the pace, doesn’t rely on individual brilliance and more a system type of player. I think he can improve much more when the team can start dominate possession.
There was that one and one on the edge of the area when it broke to him in space and he somehow controlled it in such a way that it went straight to an Arsenal player behind him to counterattack.
I find the obsession with having a left footed right winger a bit odd particularly when our right backs aren't great going forward. If we were able to get a right footed player for the right who could actually beat a man it would offer more threat than anthony
Basically any professional footballer could stand in a position which would enable them to stretch play. It's the ability to do something with the ball you would hope we would be getting with the money we spent
I wasn't overly bothered by this. Sure his control was lacking but atleast he was running towards their goal.
It's an interesting question.
City obviously won the league with a wide spread of goalscorers in the last two seasons, though still felt the need to move away from that with the Haaland signing. Arsenal have a wide spread this year, but then their CF also got injured so that helps. Liverpool basically had two near-20 goal season attackers in Salah/Mane the season they won it. And I guess that's what City had for a few years with Aguero and Sterling too....
I'm not sure really. But I think for us with our squad as is it's certain that we need a 20+ goal striker regardless. And then see from there I guess.
Yeah this all makes sense. I guess what frustrates me as is that we don't seem to sign
Yeah you are definitely right about the 'back the manager' mantra being a bit over the top. I guess I've just read a few too many stories about our scouting that he has made me a bit cynical ('AWB being drawn up from a database of over 400 candidates', 'our scouts going to a Flamengo match and coming back raving about Andreas', etc.)
Another stupid move from the club, overpaying for another player who is possibly being consumed by it.
Like Maguire, Antony will forever be held to account because of the fee, which is unavoidable given the fact he's in the top 10 most expensive PL players of all time.
We all said things about Chelsea's Lukaku, Nicolas Pepe, Grealish and Nunez so it's not fair to hold Antony to a different standard because he's "not that type of player". Other than a couple of delicious goals, I've seen very little which suggests we couldn't have utilised the money better. At this stage personally I'm clinging onto the fact ETH knows him and must know he has more to give. Other than that I'm struggling to buy into him at all.
Martial and Sancho's availability seem to be leaving us with no alternative either.
I hope he can progress and make me look like an absolute idiot, but his trajectory this season suggests that won't happen.
Like Maguire, Antony will forever be held to account because of the fee, which is unavoidable given the fact he's in the top 10 most expensive PL players of all time.
We all said things about Chelsea's Lukaku, Nicolas Pepe, Grealish and Nunez so it's not fair to hold Antony to a different standard because he's "not that type of player". Other than a couple of delicious goals, I've seen very little which suggests we couldn't have utilised the money better. At this stage personally I'm clinging onto the fact ETH knows him and must know he has more to give. Other than that I'm struggling to buy into him at all.
Martial and Sancho's availability seem to be leaving us with no alternative either.
I hope he can progress and make me look like an absolute idiot, but his trajectory this season suggests that won't happen.
The fact his ability to stretch play is used as some kind of unique ability is weird. Stretching play is all about coaching. All you do is coach the rw to keep the width. Then his ball carrying ability any winger with pace can do that. Then his ball retention ability is it about rention or the fact that he can't do anything else when he can't cut in?
I think we all hoped Martial could be usefu in the role l but the realization is hitting home that we desperately need a top striker
Well that’s not true because we don’t do it when Antony isn’t playing. It’s not just about standing there like a statute.
Attacking players, forwards are there to create and score goals. That's their job. How can Manchester United consider buying attackers who neither score or create? When did that become Manchester United style of play?
This is my worry, the years of a relative lack of success, has left some fans grappling (and seemingly) accepting the average.
Antony is a forward, playing for an ambitious club with an astute manager and if he isn't delivering, the outsome is ineveitable. So it should be. He wasn't forced to sign for Manchester United.
It's bizarre, I tell you. He is doing the bare minimum one would expect from a professional footballer - executing basic instructions from the coach. And then this is pointed out as an upside to his game? I'm pretty sure we could have found someone for less than €10M to do the same.
If Antony isn't playing its generally Bruno who will be playing there, and he hasn't played there much but also may have instructions to come inside. If we played a direct replacement e.g. pellistri I wouldn't expect them to find it hard to position themselves out wide. In fact I would suggest he would be better at stretching play because he could go down the outside and use his right foot
It is senseless to hold Nunez, Pepe, Grealish, Lukaku and Antony to any other standard than their own ability.
We can criticize the leadership of Liverpool, Arsenal, City, Chelsea and United for unwize use of money. Antony can only play to his capability. If someone rates that to 90m€, that’s on them. The best I can say about someone who keeps complaining about a player not playing to the standard of their buying price, is that they are doubly stupid, because first they claim the club management is stupid for valuing player X to 100m when he’s clearly not worth more than 50m, and then they continue to use this stupid valuation themselves as a yardstick to asess the player, despite they themselves don’t think it’s a valid yardstick. How stupid is that?
By all means, criticize Arnold for spending 100m€ on Antony, and Woodward for spending 80m€ on Maguire. And criticize Ten Hag for playing Antony ahead of Pellistri and Solskjær for playing Maguire ahead of Bailly if you like. But it makes no sense to crticize a player who tries his best for not being better than he actually is.
It’s clear we need a lot more from Antony than what he has produced so far. But my point is he’s bringing more to the team than some people are willing to give him credit for. A lot of which involves the space he creates for others.
Whether we like to admit it or not, he is our best option on the right wing at the moment. He is our only left footed option. There is a reason why every top team plays inverted wingers. Playing Pellistri, Sancho, Elanga or Garnacho on the right wing is not the solution. Antony needs to do a lot more than he is doing but the other options you are suggesting are not the solution to the problem.
Go down the premier league top teams and name me one winger who plays on the wing which is the same side as his foot. Saka, Martinelli, Mahrez, Grealish, Salah, Diaz, Gakpo, Kulusevski, Son, Rashford, Antony, Mudryk, Ziyech. They all play on the opposite side to their strongest foot. Foden is the only one who’ll play on the same side but rarely stays out on the wing.
There is a reason why Sancho, Pellestri and Rashford aren’t the solution for right wing. The only alternative that I have hope will give us a viable option is Diallo if he continues to develop. It has to be a left footer for the way we want to play.
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