Antonio Valencia... | Will wear #25 shirt from this point onwards by request

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I think we will need an outlet when they start to exert pressure onto us. That's why I'd have Nani starting over Valencia. The last thing we want is a situation like the last 30 mins against Spurs.

Valencia receiving the ball, standing still and then passing it backward only invites pressure, even if he is better at defending.
 
finneh said:
I think we will need an outlet when they start to exert pressure onto us. That's why I'd have Nani starting over Valencia. The last thing we want is a situation like the last 30 mins against Spurs.

Valencia receiving the ball, standing still and then passing it backward only invites pressure, even if he is better at defending.
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That's why I'd like Kagawa to play as well; he's much better at working it out of the back - we don't want a situation like Stamford Bridge where it's just a matter of time before the opposition score.
 
100 said:
That's why I'd like Kagawa to play as well; he's much better at working it out of the back - we don't want a situation like Stamford Bridge where it's just a matter of time before the opposition score.
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I'd have Rooney play on the left as I don't think we can afford to play two up front. For me It'd have to be Nani Jones Carrick Cleverley Rooney with RVP up top.

I agree with the point regarding Kagawa but I can't really find a way of squeezing him in.
 
Cina said:
I'll be disappointed if Valencia starts this evening, which he probably will. He doesn't deserve to and it basically means we're going to adapt a very defensive approach on the game.
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So who would you have replacing him? Nani maybe, because he really does deserve it doesn't he after all of his recent stellar performances.
 
Valencia played well against Everton, which is the first time in months since I've last confidently said that.

Valencia always plays well in the final stretch of the season, I trust him. Defensive approach or not, that's the only way we're going to stop Ronaldo. That left Madrid wing is very attacking in Coentrao/Marcelo and Ronaldo. Nani may cover well enough for the average winger, but Valencia is top dog at it.

If he starts tonight, I think he'll live up to the game and tear Marcelo/Coentrao a new one.
 
:lol: at some of the Valencia hate. Apparently it's me who hate Nani but yet, if we played some defensive side a la Celtic where you need creativity, I'd advocate playing him in front of Valencia. Surely the most important thing is what the team needs, not our preferences. Then again, if Fergie decides Nani is the better option and he goes for it all guns blazing, then who the feck am I to disagree? They are all our players ffs.

That saying, if the worst happens and we are starved of possession on the wings, like in Wembley against Barca, Val will be made the main culprit.
 
mungy said:
So who would you have replacing him? Nani maybe, because he really does deserve it doesn't he after all of his recent stellar performances.
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Tagline says no.

Tomuś said:
:lol: at some of the Valencia hate. Apparently it's me who hate Nani but yet, if we played some defensive side a la Celtic where you need creativity, I'd advocate playing him in front of Valencia. Surely the most important thing is what the team needs, not our preferences. Then again, if Fergie decides Nani is the better option and he goes for it all guns blazing, then who the feck am I to disagree? They are all our players ffs.

That saying, if the worst happens and we are starved of possession on the wings, like in Wembley against Barca, Val will be made the main culprit.
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What hate? Valencia had an ok game against Everton but still offered nothing offensively. if he's put on then it'll primarily be for his defensive qualities and not his offensive "qualities". Is it wrong to want Nani or Kagawa instead in the hope that they offer more in attack, which they have done since they returned from injury?

We'll be flooding the midfield anyway to nullify them so our wingers will be our main outlet attacking wise.
 
Cina said:
What hate? Valencia had an ok game against Everton but still offered nothing offensively. if he's put on then it'll primarily be for his defensive qualities and not his offensive "qualities". Is it wrong to want Nani or Kagawa instead in the hope that they offer more in attack, which they have done since they returned from injury?

We'll be flooding the midfield anyway to nullify them so our wingers will be our main outlet attacking wise.
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That's the point. Valencia offers much more defensively, Nani/Kagawa are more creative players, esp. taking into account this year Valencia's form. Horses for courses, it's all about tactics. We played the terribly out of form Val in all of our biggest away games this season - it hasn't fared too badly so far, has it?
I trust the great man, that's all I've got to say. Whether he plays Valencia or Nani I will be equally happy - I mean that. Is it so difficult to support your team, not certain players? How would you know if Nani is ready to go there and perform? I don't, hence I leave all of that to Fergie. You won't see me saying 'Nani doesn't deserve to start' or bollocks like that. If the manager feels he does, then it's perfectly fine with me. I'd wager he knows a bit more about footie than we do.
 
He doesn't offer MUCH more defensively. Christ, some of you make it sound like he's as good as a right back whilst Nani and Kagawa do as little as Ronaldo, when in truth it lies somewhere in between.

I'll back SAF obviously, if he feels Valencia is the right choice then fair enough, I just hope it works out.
 
He offers more defensively than any other wingers we have, which is the main point. Adding that to his pace, he's perfect to try and stop that left flank.

Nani and Kagawa probably offer a little more in attack (although the Valencia of last season and the year before would offer just as much), but we're away at the Bernabeu against the second best player in the world. If we can stop him, I'm confident we can win/snatch a good result over there.
 
I'm sorry mate, but he IS bloody brilliant defensively. Take all the flair gloss of him this season and I've got no problem with that but the defensive side of his game hasn't suffered. Did you see him at SB in our UCL encounter when he made the whole right wing his bitch? Funnily enough, he played at RB in the second half there.

You really can't let it go it seems.
 
Hernandez - BFA said:
He offers more defensively than any other wingers we have, which is the main point. Adding that to his pace, he's perfect to try and stop that left flank.

Nani and Kagawa probably offer a little more in attack (although the Valencia of last season and the year before would offer just as much), but we're away at the Bernabeu against the second best player in the world. If we can stop him, I'm confident we can win/snatch a good result over there.
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Young offers a lot defensively too in fairness to him, he's done a very good job covering for Evra when he has to.

As for Valenica, usually when he's playing right wing and has to help defend he does well, but also gives away a fair few silly freekicks usually barging into the back of people.
 
I'm not really a Valencia fan per se, but I'm not convinced we have much better tonight. I think Nani is a better player, but he's hardly played at all this season himself. Welbeck has been playing well out wide but has no end-product whatsoever, so I'm not that keen on him starting either.

Ultimately, I guess, I'll just be happy with whatever the manager chooses.
 
Cina said:
Tagline says no.



What hate? Valencia had an ok game against Everton but still offered nothing offensively. if he's put on then it'll primarily be for his defensive qualities and not his offensive "qualities". Is it wrong to want Nani or Kagawa instead in the hope that they offer more in attack, which they have done since they returned from injury?

We'll be flooding the midfield anyway to nullify them so our wingers will be our main outlet attacking wise.
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This hate. It's constant hyperbole, or in other words just utter bollocks. It's almost as if a couple of minutes after he bursts past two players then picks out van Persie on the edge of the box you've completely erased it from your memory. And then he plays all these clever, incisive passes to Rafael overlapping or van Persie drifting wide and somehow it's seen as defensive...it's mental.
 
it's an opinion. I also thought he offered very little offensively against Everton and I don't hate him.
 
We need valencia on the right wing to help defend, No matter who we play that side wont make ronaldo scared into tracking back.

On the other side though its a different story, we could use the evra and nani/welbeck combination to scare them on the left, as di maria isnt great at tracking back either.

Really will be a game of taking the chances that are provided.
 
Brwned said:
This hate. It's constant hyperbole, or in other words just utter bollocks. It's almost as if a couple of minutes after he bursts past two players then picks out van Persie on the edge of the box you've completely erased it from your memory. And then he plays all these clever, incisive passes to Rafael overlapping or van Persie drifting wide and somehow it's seen as defensive...it's mental.
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He set up the first goal with an excellent header to RVP, for fecks sake.
 
Hernandez - BFA said:
He offers more defensively than any other wingers we have, which is the main point. Adding that to his pace, he's perfect to try and stop that left flank.
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He does, but who is debating that? It's pretty obvious he offers more but much more? That's a huge exaggeration.

Tomuś said:
I'm sorry mate, but he IS bloody brilliant defensively. Take all the flair gloss of him this season and I've got no problem with that but the defensive side of his game hasn't suffered. Did you see him at SB in our UCL encounter when he made the whole right wing his bitch? Funnily enough, he played at RB in the second half there.

You really can't let it go it seems.
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Can't let what go Tomuś? You think I'm a Valencia hater or something? Look at past posts before he hit his horrible spell of form and you'll see that I'm far from it. I don't know why people think I am, maybe because I'm a fan of Nani means I automatically don't like Valencia or something.

I think he's very good defensively for a winger but Nani isn't actually that bad you know, certainly not as good but not worse to the extent that there's this outrageous gulf between them.

Brwned said:
This hate. It's constant hyperbole, or in other words just utter bollocks. It's almost as if a couple of minutes after he bursts past two players then picks out van Persie on the edge of the box you've completely erased it from your memory. And then he plays all these clever, incisive passes to Rafael overlapping or van Persie drifting wide and somehow it's seen as defensive...it's mental.
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Everton was a bad example to say "nothing" because it was his best game in a while (which I said a few pages ago amidst a lot of people saying he was still shit), more so that he didn't offer a lot, you obviously saw something great in him that I didn't though.

Maybe I'm comparing him too much to the Valencia of last season who could consistently get one up on his man and 80% of the time hit in a good cross, as opposed to hitting the ball off the defender as hard as he can in the hope that it gets a corner. I'd like to see the Valencia of last season back, who offered a hell of a lot more offensively than the Valencia of this season, and that includes Sunday.

Look, he will probably start tonight, defensively it makes sense, offensively not so much, but he has been improving in the last few games so who knows, maybe he will put in a blinder, I hope so anyway because we're going to need our wingers on their A game tonight.
 
His crossing's been shocking this season no question, but I swear this brilliant crosser you lot imagine him to be never existed. Fire it low and hard across the 6 yard box or do that stop-start move for a couple of seconds so the striker can get engineer a bit of space and pick him out. Neither were perfect and he doesn't possess the capacity to put in inch-perfect balls like Nani. He beat his man consistently but consistently put in good crosses? Not so sure about that.
 
Adebesi said:
A HUGE exaggeration? Or just an exaggeration?
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I suppose an exaggeration can be interpreted as something rather large anyway, so make of it what you will, Simon.

Brwned said:
His crossing's been shocking this season no question, but I swear this brilliant crosser you lot imagine him to be never existed. Fire it low and hard across the 6 yard box or do that stop-start move for a couple of seconds so the striker can get engineer a bit of space and pick him out. He beat his man consistently but consistently put in good crosses? Not so sure about that.
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That's what I meant, no? Get a yard on his man and ping a cross in. I remember him putting in lots of good, high crosses in past times, not just firing in low ones. Remember him and Rooney in 09/10?

I don't think he was "brilliant" as in he could put in magical crosses like Nani does on a very inconsistent basis, but he was a very consistent crosser at getting the ball into dangerous areas for strikers to latch on to.
 
Hernandez - BFA said:
Valencia played well against Everton, which is the first time in months since I've last confidently said that.

Valencia always plays well in the final stretch of the season, I trust him. Defensive approach or not, that's the only way we're going to stop Ronaldo. That left Madrid wing is very attacking in Coentrao/Marcelo and Ronaldo. Nani may cover well enough for the average winger, but Valencia is top dog at it.

If he starts tonight, I think he'll live up to the game and tear Marcelo/Coentrao a new one.
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I'm loving the optimism, but he has not ripped any fullback this season, so it's very unlikely Marcelo/Coentrao will be ripped. At the very most he'll be an extra outlet on the wing.
 
Ah, fair enough! Yeah he was brilliant at creating that yard of space for himself just to whip it in. Now he looks completely incapable of it. Even against Everton when he was back to taking on his man and showing some creativity in his linkup play, he looked positively terrified of just knocking it on the outside and whipping it in. Although in fairness after mishitting about 100 crosses in a row I suspect I'd be the same.

It was him, Rooney and Berba in 09/10 iirc, but most of them were just picking out Rooney once Berbatov found Valencia in loads of space. Don't remember many where he beat his man or went for the early cross and then placed one on Rooney's head.
 
Aye, it's crazy how poor it's gotten. it's also frustrating because for the first time in a while we have a tall striker who is great in the air but he's just not getting any service from the wings to score the goals. It's a good thing RvP is so damn good at scoring goals by himself and out of nothing because if we were relying on our wingers to create the chances for him (like in 09/10) then we'd be fecked!
 
Brwned said:
His crossing's been shocking this season no question, but I swear this brilliant crosser you lot imagine him to be never existed. Fire it low and hard across the 6 yard box or do that stop-start move for a couple of seconds so the striker can get engineer a bit of space and pick him out. Neither were perfect and he doesn't possess the capacity to put in inch-perfect balls like Nani. He beat his man consistently but consistently put in good crosses? Not so sure about that.
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Agree, never been a great crosser, but he used to put so many in that enough would find the mark.

Now he looks scared to take a man on.
 
Lost possession when we were in a decent advanced position when he let the ball run out of play because he simply refuses to touch the ball with his left foot and tried to run around it to keep it in with his right. It's becoming ridiculous and fecking infuriating.
 
I said a couple of months ago that I think we should sell him, which at the time was obviously brushed off. But I think it's looking more likely as time goes on.

He hasn't been relied upon in the must win games recently. I think Fergie's losing a bit of confidence.

This is no disrespect to Valencia as a player, I just don't think he fits in here anymore. It's a Berbatov situation and nobody misses him despite him being a great player because we are better without him.
 
I look at the team and think right, if we were to sell some players, who would the big clubs want.

RvP, Chicharito, Nani (who should be started ahead of Valencia everytime), Rafael and so on.....in all seriousness, who would be in for Tony?

I'm not saying he's shit or anything, but he isn't top class, and he isn't doing anything for us.

It's a sad situation for him, but sadder for the likes of Nani and Young, who could be starting ahead of him and doing A LOT more damage
 
He tracked back 10 times better than Rooney. Not sure what people were expecting of him ?

Drew a foul when through bursting, but the numpty referee didn't give it. I'm not his biggest fan out there but what are people slating him for today ?

Nani is nowhere near as disciplined as him.
 
I'm not one to knee jerk, but he's been pretty much useless for too long now. Nani should be having a felid day with Valencia playing like this, yet he's still not getting a sniff.
 
And Nani has himself to blame for it. He has made 3 brainfarts this season already at crucial games defensively and not offered much going forward either.

There was no way he was being risked in this game, ahead of Valencia.
 
Not writing him off but I don't think he justifies selection at the moment and we've given him more than enough games to get back into form.
 
Cevno said:
And Nani has himself to blame for it. He has made 3 brainfarts this season already at crucial games defensively and not offered much going forward either.

There was no way he was being risked in this game, ahead of Valencia.
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Still a lot more than Valencia has.
 
Hmph well i see i haven't missed much after being out for a few weeks. Seems like this "debate" will never end.
 
He's becoming a one footed Dirk Kuyt.

There was a moment when Jones slightly mishit a pass and Valencia's inability to use his left foot ensured we lost the ball. It's going to cost us one of these days.
 
The history of this thread

Page 1-10 - Valencia would be a great player if he could cross a ball/people aren't sure

Page 10-80 - for the next 3 years the guy is fantastic, superb crossing, tearing cole and every other fullback to shreds, doing a great job at RB

Page 80-now - he is shit

Strange the way there's been nearly the same amount written on him in the last 5 months than there had been in the previous 3 years

It's a period of bad form which all players bar messi/ronaldo go through - he just needs a couple of games in form and the confidence will be back
 
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