[Nobby style]

He actually put in a very nice cross to Martial today. Not that anyone would remember, or even less so, credit him.

 

[Sigma]

Who are we talking about?

This season, Darmian, Rooney, and Memphis have all stepped away from attacking relaying on someone else to do it. They all attacked better this game but their form throughout the season hasn't been the same as today. Thus at least Valencia is taking a chance and taking people on, which he did a lot today. Most of his crosses weren't good but he did put in a few of good ones, especially the one where Martial probably should have scored.

 

[Obiorahking_]

Ok, I'll hold him to the standards of that position.

He's playing at full back for one of the world's biggest clubs and his crossing is not remotely close to the standards we should expect from one. Likewise for Darmian, actually.

There, happy?

Didn't Valencia give Martial his best chance at goal with his "shitty crossing"

 

[Massive Spanner]

This season, Darmian, Rooney, and Memphis have all stepped away from attacking relaying on someone else to do it.

Rooney plays through the middle, I fail to see how that's relevant, and I certainly don't think he's shied away from getting forward. Memphis and Darmian get forward a lot, so again, not sure what you're watching here.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Didn't Valencia give Martial his best chance at goal with his "shitty crossing"

Yeah, it was a very good cross. Shame about the other <insert big number here>.

 

[Ole's_toe_poke]

Why doesn't he try lifting his crosses a little more rather than just smashing all of them. Variety is the spice of life so they say.

 

[Nobby style]

Rooney plays through the middle, I fail to see how that's relevant, and I certainly don't think he's shied away from getting forward. Memphis and Darmian get forward a lot, so again, not sure what you're watching here.

Darmian getting forward a lot? You´re joking aren´t you. He is dire offensively. Valencia also plays very well with Mata. On that alone I would choose Tony over Mateo. But with Shaw out, I´m delighted to have Darmian on the left.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Darmian getting forward a lot? You´re joking aren´t you. He is dire offensively. Valencia also plays very well with Mata. On that alone I would choose Tony over Mateo. But with Shaw out, I´m delighted to have Darmian on the left.

No? Darmian does get forward a lot. As I said above, his crossing as equally as disappointing as Valencia's when he gets into those positions though.

 

[Obiorahking_]

Yeah, it was a very good cross. Shame about the other <insert big number here>.

He only messed up one or two other crosses today.

 

[Sigma]

Rooney plays through the middle, I fail to see how that's relevant, and I certainly don't think he's shied away from getting forward. Memphis and Darmian get forward a lot, so again, not sure what you're watching here.

They have got forward yeah, but no where near as often as Valencia got forward today, he put in a great shift in.

And that brings me to another point, people moaning about Valencia's quality are again completely neglecting the fact that most of our crosses or penetrative passes haven't come off and that Valencia isn't the only one to turnback and play a back pass. He get's far too much stick on here.

 

[Nobby style]

No? Darmian does get forward a lot. As I said above, his crossing as equally as disappointing as Valencia's when he gets into those positions though.

I can barely even remember a Darmian cross. Does it ever happen?

 

[Akshay]

Frustrating performance, kept getting the ball in good areas and then messing it up. How he contrived to dribble the ball over the line when clear behind their defence I'll never know. Kept mis-controlling it when Rooney pinged him those diagonal through balls too. Darmian was better attacking-wise than him today.

 

[Obiorahking_]

Why doesn't he try lifting his crosses a little more rather than just smashing all of them. Variety is the spice of life so they say.

Last season when he became more established at right back. He lifted his crosses a lot more, he even started putting in a few decent crosses with the outside of his right foot.

 

[Sigma]

Frustrating performance, kept getting the ball in good areas and then messing it up. How he contrived to dribble the ball over the line when clear behind their defence I'll never know. Kept mis-controlling it when Rooney pinged him those diagonal through balls too. Darmian was better attacking-wise than him today.

His first touch was brilliant (as it always it) today. I didn't see him miss control anything today (apart from the one where he let the ball roll across the line).

 

[shabadu84]

I remember when he first came here and started working those drilled crosses I to his game, thought it was brilliant. But back then, he had the speed to get ahead of the defender first.

Still I think he remains solid as a backup option and that's more than most teams can say. Much prefer him there to the days of Jones and Smalling.

 

[Obiorahking_]

Frustrating performance, kept getting the ball in good areas and then messing it up. How he contrived to dribble the ball over the line when clear behind their defence I'll never know. Kept mis-controlling it when Rooney pinged him those diagonal through balls too. Darmian was better attacking-wise than him today.

Darmian, until the end of the game, hardly ever got forward with the ball. At least Valencia actually made those forward runs that stretched the play and opened up the defense for our attackers.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I can barely even remember a Darmian cross. Does it ever happen?

That's cause they're easily forgettable.

They have got forward yeah, but no where near as often as Valencia got forward today, he put in a great shift in.

And that brings me to another point, people moaning about Valencia's quality are again completely neglecting the fact that most of our crosses or penetrative passes haven't come off and that Valencia isn't the only one to turnback and play a back pass. He get's far too much stick on here.

Nah, you're making things up to suit your argument. Look back at the Darmian thread, everyone was loving how much he bombs up and down the pitch for us.

I don't disagree with the second part, our crossing, in general has not been good enough, and Valencia is not the only one to blame for that. However, he had far more of the ball in those sort of areas today than anyone else and he didn't do enough with it (bar the cross to Martial), and that's why he's getting stick.

Memphis is getting plenty of stick too, by the way, and Rooney has gotten far more stick than any other player in our team this season, so it's not like it's some vendetta against Valencia like you're trying to make it out to be. If players don't do well enough, they get stick for it, simple as that.

 

[Sigma]

That's cause they're easily forgettable.

Nah, you're making things up to suit your argument. Look back at the Darmian thread, everyone was loving how much he bombs up and down the pitch for us.

I don't disagree with the second part, our crossing, in general has not been good enough, and Valencia is not the only one to blame for that. However, he had far more of the ball in those sort of areas today than anyone else and he didn't do enough with it (bar the cross to Martial), and that's why he's getting stick.

Memphis is getting plenty of stick too, by the way, and Rooney has gotten far more stick than any other player in our team this season, so it's not like it's some vendetta against Valencia like you're trying to make it out to be. If players don't do well enough, they get stick for it, simple as that.

Who was out main attacking threat today? Who was the guy that we were constantly playing the ball too?

 

[Ash_G]

Darmian, until the end of the game, hardly ever got forward with the ball. At least Valencia actually made those forward runs that stretched the play and opened up the defense for our attackers.

He did get forward a few times in the first half, didn't he have a good run at the start of the game? But the difference is Darmian today and bar a few of his previous games has been very good defensively although lacking somewhat in a attack. Valencia is questionable defensively, often saving himself due to his physical attributes giving him a good ability to recover, his saving grace should be his attacking outlet and unfortunately it isn't.

If Depay is going to keep his spot then I'd see how Young can do at rb if Darmain stays left. With Shaw out we need one of the fullbacks providing a real threat and as Valencia showed in a lot of games we will have space to exploit there. We need to make the most of it.

 

[Obiorahking_]

I don't disagree with the second part, our crossing, in general has not been good enough, and Valencia is not the only one to blame for that. However, he had far more of the ball in those sort of areas today than anyone else and he didn't do enough with it (bar the cross to Martial), and that's why he's getting stick.

That cross to Martial was the only cross that actually led to something since Mata's cross at the beginning of the Southampton game that was mistimed by Depay...

 

[Ash_G]

Who was out main attacking threat today? Who was the guy that we were constantly playing the ball too?

Well that was Rooney who loves that pass from the left side to the right, no one else was really playing it from memory and in most cases it came to nothing if you're suggesting Valencia was our main threat. We did show though that there's a lot of space out wide though and we need to be utilising it better. Valencia got in to good positions, no one can deny that but he as typical failed to do anything with it more often than not.

 

[soap]

Frustrating performance, kept getting the ball in good areas and then messing it up. How he contrived to dribble the ball over the line when clear behind their defence I'll never know. Kept mis-controlling it when Rooney pinged him those diagonal through balls too. Darmian was better attacking-wise than him today.

Very harsh, the first one he could never have been realistically expected to keep in and the second one was a difficult one too. Overall he wasn't great today - didn't really need to be I suppose seeing as Sunderland were hardly a threat. Going forward his pace and energy will always be an asset, and lack of guile is always pretty evident.

For the record, Darmian skipped past a couple of tackles and put a good ball in early on and got into a good position midway through the first half with some good control and then put the cross into the stands. More forgivable given that he was using his weaker foot.

 

[Barca84]

I can't be doing with him. Great athlete, a real trier who plays for the badge, but feck me he has a severely limited skillset.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Who was out main attacking threat today?

It's a close call between three players, Valencia certainly isn't one of them. Unless your idea of being threatening is not being threatening?

Who was the guy that we were constantly playing the ball too?

I'm confused as to how that could possibly support your argument? Although, I don't even know what your argument is supposed to be now. I think it started as him not being judged on his crossing at all, but then it changed to him needing to be judged less harshly because he apparently gets more tired these days, but then it changed to, well, forget his crossing, look how much of the ball he had! Then it went from no longer talking about him full-back wise and trying to compare him to our attacking players, despite your initial argument being that he's a full back now, not an attacker, so shouldn't be judged as an attacker. Now, um, now I assume you're going to try tell me that because we gave him the ball loads, he was our most threatening player, or something?

 

[Sigma]

It's a close call between three players, Valencia certainly isn't one of them. Unless your idea of being threatening is not being threatening?

I'm confused as to how that could possibly support your argument? Although, I don't even know what your argument is supposed to be now. I think it started as him not being judged on his crossing at all, but then it changed to him needing to be judged less harshly because he apparently gets more tired these days, but then it changed to, well, forget his crossing, look how much of the ball he had! Then it went from no longer talking about him full-back wise and trying to compare him to our attacking players, despite your initial argument being that he's a full back now, not an attacker, so shouldn't be judged as an attacker. Now, um, now I assume you're going to try tell me that because we gave him the ball loads, he was our most threatening player, or something?

My argument is me responding to your many criticisms of him and mentioning this that he is good at, which he is not getting credit for.

Who were the three players you mentioned?

 

[Massive Spanner]

My argument is me responding to your many criticisms of him and mentioning this that he is good at, which he is not getting credit for.

Who were the three players you mentioned?

Your argument is going in weird tangents, and not really making any sense. I also don't think you've listed one thing he's really good at yet, apart from maybe ... getting into those wide positions? Hurray, he can get into them, now if only he could do something with the football when he is in them.

Martial, Mata and (to a lesser extent) Rooney were our three best attackers today, all of whom were far more threatening than Valencia.

Really, if you actually hold the opinion that he was our more threatening player today then you must have some ridiculous bias to him, because it's daft, and it's probably not worth continuing this.

 

[Sigma]

Your argument is going in weird tangents, and not really making any sense. I also don't think you've listed one thing he's really good at yet, apart from maybe ... getting into those wide positions? Hurray, he can get into them, now if only he could do something with the football when he is in them.

Martial, Mata and (to a lesser extent) Rooney were our three best attackers today, all of whom were far more threatening than Valencia.

Really, if you actually hold the opinion that he was our more threatening player today then you must have some ridiculous bias to him, because it's daft, and it's probably not worth continuing this.

He's good at many things, He can get up and down the field quickly and effectively, he can defend, if he is caught out of position he has the pace to get back, he is strong, his link up play is brilliant among many more attributes that he brings to the team.

Maybe I used the wrong word, what I meant was he was clearly the main part of the game plan today. Our game plan was clearly to get it out wide to Valencia so he could take the player on and get the cross in. Why would this be our game plan if van Gaal didn't think he was good enough to do this effectively?

 

[Trizy]

How he's lasted this long at a top club is a mystery. He's shite as a winger and below average at RB.

 

[Massive Spanner]

He's good at many things, He can get up and down the field quickly and effectively, he can defend, if he is caught out of position he has the pace to get back, he is strong, his link up play is brilliant among many more attributes that he brings to the team.

Maybe I used the wrong word, what I meant was he was clearly the main part of the game plan today. Our game plan was clearly to get it out wide to Valencia so he could take the player on and get the cross in. Why would this be our game plan if van Gaal didn't think he was good enough to do this effectively?

But I haven't criticized any of those things, that's why this is so strange. I criticized his crossing, only his crossing, and you've turned it into a full scale, weird defense of his entire game, even though I never said anything about the rest of his game.

I'd say Rooney's game plan was to get it wide to Valencia, not sure about everyone else.

 

[Sigma]

But I haven't criticized any of those things, that's why this is so strange. I criticized his crossing, only his crossing, and you've turned it into a full scale, weird defense of his entire game, even though I never said anything about the rest of his game.

I'd say Rooney's game plan was to get it wide to Valencia, not sure about everyone else.

You said I didn't list any good qualities to his game, so I did, you didn't specify if it had to be about today's game or in general.

 

[Massive Spanner]

You said I didn't list any good qualities to his game, so I did, you didn't specify if it had to be about today's game or in general.

Because you said this

My argument is me responding to your many criticisms of him and mentioning this that he is good at

 

[Sigma]

Because you said this

Yes and I didn't specify if it was about today's game or in general. And actually he did perform well in all the places I said today. He defended brilliantly, I don't remember then getting a chance down the right, his link up play with Mata was superb (the first attack Mata played a brilliant ball for the run of Valencia. Again he showed his pace and Strength with his few dribbles that he attempted and completed. Darmian and Valencia both played well today and I hope they are our full backs for the season.

Who would you have replacing Shaw?

 

[Massive Spanner]

Yes and I didn't specify if it was about today's game or in general. And actually he did perform well in all the places I said today. He defended brilliantly, I don't remember then getting a chance down the right, his link up play with Mata was superb (the first attack Mata played a brilliant ball for the run of Valencia. Again he showed his pace and Strength with his few dribbles that he attempted and completed. Darmian and Valencia both played well today and I hope they are our full backs for the season.

Who would you have replacing Shaw?

I have literally never had a single discussion about Valencia with you prior to today's game, there is no "in general" when you say you're responding to "many criticisms". I had one (today), his crossing. I explained why he should be judged on it when you and another said he should not, you decided to bring all this other nonsense into it after that, because I assume you couldn't keep that argument going and thought that you'd be able to keep going if you veered off into other, unrelated aspects.

 

[Sigma]

I have literally never had a single discussion about Valencia with you prior to today's game, there is no "in general" when you say you're responding to "many criticisms". I had one (today), his crossing. I explained why he should be judged on it when you and another said he should not, you decided to bring all this other nonsense into it after that, because I assume you couldn't keep that argument going and thought that you'd be able to keep going if you veered off into other, unrelated aspects.

Mate you said I didn't mention anything he is good at, so I did and now you are moaning at me because I did so? What did you want me to say when you said I didn't mention anything he was good at?

 

[Massive Spanner]

Mate you said I didn't mention anything he is good at, so I did and now you are moaning at me because I did so? What did you want me to say when you said I didn't mention anything he was good at?

The obvious response to that was "Oh yeah ... I didn't, I'll retract that statement then. Cya!"

 

[Sigma]

The obvious response to that was "Oh yeah ... I didn't, I'll retract that statement then. Cya!"

Well I have a different opinion than you.

 

[Akshay]

Very harsh, the first one he could never have been realistically expected to keep in and the second one was a difficult one too. Overall he wasn't great today - didn't really need to be I suppose seeing as Sunderland were hardly a threat. Going forward his pace and energy will always be an asset, and lack of guile is always pretty evident.

For the record, Darmian skipped past a couple of tackles and put a good ball in early on and got into a good position midway through the first half with some good control and then put the cross into the stands. More forgivable given that he was using his weaker foot.

Yeah, I think Rooney could have done better with those balls as well. It seemed to me a little bit that making that kind of pass was the move Wayne felt most confident doing, so he was going to do it whether it was the right decision or not. Still would have liked to see more from Valencia given the standard of opposition (same criticism I had with his play against Ipswich). Compared to Young, he doesn't look like someone determined to win his place back in the team.

 

[VorZakone]

He should be a rugby player.

 

[Ixion]

He can't cross to save his life.

 

[Cheesy]

He can't cross to save his life.

Our coaching staff should just stick cardboard cut-outs of opposition players onto our own players. He'd be upping his accuracy in no time.